Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

Thanks suspended :)

I guess this is kind of a beggining to the industrial revolution of musics. Will a day come when people go to see just a bunch of amps set up and watch a computer screen make show the notes and tracks being used? Rather than a live ochestra? Rather than making their kids take piano lessons, parents will eventually just but FL and make them read tutorials? Well whatever happens Theres no possible way I'm make 8 years of learning music go to waste, even if I do get a sequencer, It will just be for better quality, and I'll still use my keyboard for 90% of the music making. It's like an 80key piano roll at your fingertips!

Thanks suspended :)

I guess this is kind of a beggining to the industrial revolution of musics. Will a day come when people go to see just a bunch of amps set up and watch a computer screen make show the notes and tracks being used? Rather than a live ochestra? Rather than making their kids take piano lessons, parents will eventually just but FL and make them read tutorials? Well whatever happens Theres no possible way I'm make 8 years of learning music go to waste, even if I do get a sequencer, It will just be for better quality, and I'll still use my keyboard for 90% of the music making. It's like an 80key piano roll at your fingertips!

At 5/5/08 02:39 PM, kaptainkewl wrote: Rather than making their kids take piano lessons, parents will eventually just but FL and make them read tutorials?

Not gonna happen. I regret never listening when my parents encouraged piano lessons. I'm just starting to take them now, even though I've been using FL Studio for over a year. You see, with FL, I was able to get all the awesome technical aspects: Processing, synth design, mixing, mastering, multitracking, etc. without needing a gigantic expensive synth or studio. And I just have fun.

However, I can't do that shit live. Nope. Not a chance. Sure, I can design some synths, but my friend who's been playing piano for longer than I've been alive will really show me what it is all about. Its just how I've always been more of a programmer/math/science type, rather than an artsy type of guy: This appeals to me much more. Also, I AM taking music theory in school. I might as well know what I'm doing as I do it, right?

Anyways, I can see your argument, and it makes sense. Its just that times are a-changing. If you were around for the 90s, then the Dotcom bubble/burst must have been gigantic for you. Its all just manifestations of our development as a civilization. I say we embrace the changes, but don't let them overtake the old fashioned way, because it might just be a fad in the end.

It's funny because I notice alot of the people that were never forced to take lessons in an instrument fell into it on their own, yet the ones that were, just fell away from it. I really started on a freaking old family organ we had. Then my mom bought me a keyboard for christmas, thats when I really started playing. 4 years later and I"m doing stuff I literally aspired to do. It was nobuo uematsu who inspired me (To zanarkand piano solo) and now I feel almost as though I'm doing it.

But there are certain things a sequencer just can't be beaten about. Quality of synths/versatility of instruments (I dont think people could bother becoming a master of every instrument and then Playing the music with each one) and there is NO possible way I can record the drums I need to at times, I just finished a song that had a marchign snare, and I think I almost broke my finger from pressing the same key on my keyboard so fast. where as with a seq If you can't play drums live, You can just emulate the sound, and the can go at the 32nd beats that you need them too. There are huge advantages to Sequencers, but I find you lose alot of fun from making the stuff live. Nothing compares to sitting down, closing your eyes, and letting your fingers create simple nothings that may never go on the Audio portal, but just soothe.

Wow that was long.

The only difference between real recorded instruments and digital ones, are the dynamics. Electronic music only sounds digital because the authors are too lazy to equalize every single note and shift them slighty off-beat to get that live improvised feeling - OR because they want it to sound electronic. Or it might be that they just lack the musical knowledge to make things sound good.

It is possible to make a country-song sound live and natural using digital instruments only, but it takes a LOT of effort when it comes to instrument-placement in a room, volume-levels, instrumental flaws and tempo-misses. But it IS possible ... it's just too much work.

Listen to Jean Michel Jarre.
That is one man who manages to make electronic music feel alive.

what do u think of my music hellspawn

At 5/5/08 07:21 PM, SkyMarshall wrote: The only difference between real recorded instruments and digital ones, are the dynamics. Electronic music only sounds digital because the authors are too lazy to equalize every single note and shift them slighty off-beat to get that live improvised feeling - OR because they want it to sound electronic. Or it might be that they just lack the musical knowledge to make things sound good.

I don't want to be a link-whore, so I'll just say that the link in my sig to my track "prologue" has the first part with each note adjusted (not any time adjustments though) for realism, and the rest of the song doesn't. The chords sound clunky and unrealistic, not at all like they should.

At 5/5/08 07:21 PM, SkyMarshall wrote: Listen to Jean Michel Jarre.

Ok I know discussions of name dropping can be irritating. That in mind. Props man. It's been forever since I've heard that one. My dad had a bunch of his stuff on vinyl.

At 5/4/08 04:38 AM, HellSpawnIV wrote: Tell me how people can stand it when people make songs that sound so computerized to hell. Am i the only one that feels that playing all instruments on your keyboard cheating, and sounds terrible? better question, other stuff

and you would play a moog theremin which other way? oboe controller?

At 5/5/08 02:38 PM, kaptainkewl wrote: Will a day come when people go to see just a bunch of amps set up and watch a computer screen make show the notes and tracks being used? Rather than a live ochestra?

it already does happen...look into something called "demo scene"

At 5/5/08 07:21 PM, SkyMarshall wrote: The only difference between real recorded instruments and digital ones, are the dynamics.

Not necessarily. Ever head of "analog warmth"? Well, that's whats missing in synths. Ultra high or ultra low frequencies, randomness, room dynamics from... say... people in it, that can't be completely emulated by reverb. Breathing noises, however slight, or maybe slight background recording noise. It all affects the sound.

At 5/6/08 02:55 PM, xXDathDalerXx wrote:

At 5/5/08 02:38 PM, kaptainkewl wrote: Will a day come when people go to see just a bunch of amps set up and watch a computer screen make show the notes and tracks being used? Rather than a live ochestra?

it already does happen...look into something called "demo scene"

Thats a sad sad day IMHO...I'll record live music till the day I die. On another note, This hip ho[ and rap stuff get to me a bit as well, When people talk into a mic and the guys in the background get paid like...$10 an hour. But in 20 years I'm assuming it will be a new fad (not rap, but something else) and zepplin will still ride on.

Holy shit I want an oboe controller. I want some EW Piano samples and an oboe controller. Best idea ever. Oboe controller. Someone google it for me.

in defense of electronic sequencing and audio production:

1) i think a lot of people go for synthetic sounds not because it's "the easy way out," but because it sounds better in certain occasions. honestly. a death metal kick would not sound very glorious in an epic trance song [unless you're saying the whole concept of electronic music is bad... which i'd really disagree with.] synthesizers really do give a different vibe to a song than a traditional acoustic guitar would, and you can' t really escape that.

2) but even apart from that, look at it this way: a composer doesn't have to play the sounds perfectly, he would be writing down the notes as notation as the production of the song. so visualize electronic sequencing as that composition phase. when people actually perform stuff live, most of the good people indeed do do audio editing live [or you'd get a very boring batch of concerts].

3) and even ignoring that, a lot of sequencing can be really really hard, on the other hand, if you're actually tweaking instruments like crazy. while commericalized, usual stuff generally doesn't go very deep into that, vocal splicing and twisting samples around like crazy [try akufen for some lighter stuff.. kid606 for some really heavy stuff... and maybe some idm or some good drum and bass artists for complicated arrangements] could be tough as balls. audio processing doesn't really happen as much when ur just strumming an acoustic guitar, so that throws in a whole dimension of difficulty even though laying down notes isn't hard.

4) i see where you're coming though--i play piano--and once you get proficient, basic audio production does get easier. but when you're faced with the expectation of something completely different every time [complete overhauls of every instrument? you don't really do that much in traditional songs], the expecatations are raised as well.

though, those expectations happen to be really low on newgrounds because it is an environment conducive to total n00b composers, hence the following overinflated ratings compared to the record industries and professional scene.

Jesus. It's 2008, I woulda thought the idea of "instruments done by computer" would have sunk in by now.

@p4c
you have several good points, don't worry, almost nobody will read what you wrote ... check my posts and the answers i got :)))) like absolutley no dialogue ... everybody shooting ideeas
example:
i wrote

what to say about Nine Inch Nails , Korn, Static-X ... all of those use that electronic "crap"

and next post starts like

A lot of Nine Inch Nails songs use drum machines, not when they play live obviously, but they still sound great.

o_O
... anyway, check my posts, i think i covered parly some important aspects

At 5/6/08 07:56 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: Holy shit I want an oboe controller. I want some EW Piano samples and an oboe controller. Best idea ever. Oboe controller. Someone google it for me.

lol. done

At 5/6/08 10:55 PM, p4c wrote: in defense of electronic sequencing and audio production:

:: Very long shpeel about electronic amazingness

I never said Electronic music was not good, or hard for that matter, I just said it's alot easy to compose. Which means, The basic composition, not including messing the wavtables and the synth sounds around, takes much less time to learn, then Learning to compose in real life. and I feel as though it's like cheating in a game, you skip 9 levels and your at the boss, but wheres the fun in not ever being able to do that in real life. I can only do so much on my keyboard, and may eventually move to a sequencing program, I can mess with the reverb, I have a tuning wheel, and chorus, echos harmonic effects and such. But Nothing like actually moving the way the sound of the synth works. So for the most part I spend maybe an hour or two mastetring on audacity. I Try to spend as much time as I can electronically editing the music as I do making it. Just so I can say it's come to a decent playthrough. But Doing it all electronically would Just strike a nerve.

lol i guess the point i was trying to make was that, yes, making music electronically is easy. but making good music is a whole different story, for compositional and technical reasons, though i agree totally--you don't need the years of training to get good at it. i've only been doing it for like 2 years and i think ive matured pretty well, let alone other people. But seriously, at the point where you get as professional-sounding as possible, you're still probably talking about years of practice unless you're really, really good [though not on the orders of magnitude for manual instruments... i know, i play piano lol]

though i guess im in this mindset: arguing how hard it is to produce the sounds you do is just kind of stupid to me. i mean, as long as your work sounds good, and you actually made it with ur insight and talent [i.e. not just all premade loops... usually (stares down daft punk)] great! but we don't need to go into a dick-measuring contest to see how hard it was for you to make ur stuff, and i jst see it as kind of pointless lol. hope that explains my position better.

At 5/6/08 11:45 PM, PixlCrushr wrote: Jesus. It's 2008, I woulda thought the idea of "instruments done by computer" would have sunk in by now.

seconded.

If you want computer drums that sound realistic, you should check out the fxpansion BFD. Take a listen to the audio samples on the left. They were all programmed.

Mo

At 5/7/08 11:01 PM, DaGrahamCraka wrote:

At 5/6/08 11:45 PM, PixlCrushr wrote: Jesus. It's 2008, I woulda thought the idea of "instruments done by computer" would have sunk in by now.

seconded.

thirded.

^
||
Posting for the sake of posting anyone?

I guess it seems pointless to you, but I mean I like these kind of febates, Not so much as a cockiness thing, but I just find it good to have some actual intellect on these forums once in a while. Whether it's us saying which is harder or easier, there is still a display of points and etc. I mean, I've really come to have alot less hate towards music makers on this site (if any at this point) and even gave up my jealousy towards Davidorr the other day. I'll just have to get the electronics and do better music than him that way. Or maybe worse music, at least I won't have an excuse to say I'm better than him...:P

At 5/4/08 05:28 PM, xXDathDalerXx wrote: i don't care what it's made with as long as it sounds good.

Nothing more needs said.