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Forum Topic: A rant composers should read

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NickPerrin

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Posted at: 3/30/08 04:12 AM

NickPerrin NEUTRAL LEVEL 05

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Hey guys. Just wrote this rant, and as such it's a bit train-of-thought-unstructured, but it gets most of my general point across. Not to worry, one day I'll write a proper essay :D

http://nickperrin.newgrounds.com/news/po st/101497

Check it out and comment there. Post your own thoughts here, I'd like other composers to discuss this, as well as non-composers who have been mercilessly attacked in this rant (although totally harmlessly and without malevolent intent!).


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jnry3

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Posted at: 3/30/08 06:03 AM

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Hey, I posted a reply. You might want a quick read. Pardon me if it wasn't structured well. My thoughts kept on jumping from place to place. ^_^

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joshhunsaker

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Posted at: 3/30/08 06:13 AM

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I'm pretty sure that the world's greatest achievements and works were usually created by people who had faith in themselves...(cough ben franklin, newton, sophocles, cough practically every greek philosopher).

A huge part of the phenomenon you pick apart deals with being in the right place at the right time. Let's face it: life is simply a crap shoot in many ways. Bill Gates was brilliant to be sure but you realize that he essentially "stole" the idea of a "windows graphical user interface" from jobs who bought the technology off of xerox for literally nothing (xerox made one of the most significant business blunders of the entire century with this inept maneuver, and have likely felt incredibly dumb ever since not realizing the gold mine they were sitting on...).

So, really, I'm not sure I share your sentiment. While I'm certainly not terribly overjoyed with my own prowess...I'm not self-abasing about it either. I can look at all the music I see (both professionally done and otherwise) on my very decent monitoring system and make very logical deductions concerning the things I am doing right and the things I still need to work on and also the things the artist I am comparing may not excel in as much as I do and the things that they obviously do much better. To see it any other way then a simple procedure of comparisons and refocusing of energy to specific weakness' is not only self-defeating (the purpose of creating music is to get better at doing so... no?) but makes it difficult to mark any progress at all that might actually be happening because you are too busy feeling sorry for yourself.

The problem here, Nick (hope you don't mind) is that, as good as you are (and let's not forget that both you and I are aware that you are very good and it is probably sometimes very hard to not be conceited about it...) you probably don't see any sense currently in actually recognizing you are good. You probably still want to compare yourself to the "masters" and say "look! people worship these guys and have for centuries! there is simply no way I can ever approach that level of expertise! it's impossible! i must completely suck or something...! <sigh>"

The fact is this really gets you nowhere. You might as well wear a scarlet "A" or flail yourself in public because musically - that is the equivalent. Honestly - some of the best classical numbers I've ever heard were the ones that never EVER get any airtime because they are (and always were) too experimental. I mean - honestly - canon in c? What a joke. A lot of classical music was just like it is now - POPULAR MUSIC. Meaning it was totally predictable and calculated to be "enjoyed" be the masses. I hate most popular music. There are very very few bands I would ever consider holding on a pedestal. Same thing with classical music. In fact - most composers from any period really just sucked. Even a lot of mozart and schumann and shubert and chopin and blah and blah are simply dead boring to listen to. Yes - they are still very refined numbers and the artists obviously exhibit a great grasp of theory and the like, but there are really very few masterpieces of any age.

So no. I don't suck. And neither does anyone who choosesto not have to "suck". Anyone can become trained to be a world-class mixing engineer/pianist/vocalist/songwriter/pro ducer/guitar shedder/whatever with enough training and resolve. I wouldn't be able to play piano like I do today if it were not for the fact that I practice things like scales, arpeggios, my own composition, general improv and standard pieces EVERY SINGLE DAY. It would simply not be a reality. I've had people (who in cases had played piano for decades)ask me if what I was playing was a piece by chopin or rac. Then I told them I was just making it up as I went along. But I'll tell you right now that 8 years ago - I couldn't have done anything like that. It was simply the combination of wanting to teach myself something with pretty much blinding sticking my hands on the keys and playing notes until things actually started to sound good without me even having to work over sections to get ideas. And then it took about a decade to refine to where I am now. Does that mean I'm going to take a nap now and not practice anymore and try to become better? Why the hell would it mean that?

I have to apologize because honestly - I used to feel the exact same way about my music. It was so sacred to me. It was some unconquerable monster that I was the servant of. No. That's bullsh*t to me now. I don't serve music - it serves me. I simply don't have time to feel sorry for myself anymore that I am so lowly a creature as to be facing some seemingly insurmountable task of becoming a "good" composer. I'm not sheepish anymore when someone says "holy sh*t where did you learn to play like that" or when my neighbor is always asking me to come over and play piano. I just say "thanks". If they think it's amazing - who am I to question that? Am I smarter then they are? Who am I to say "no - actually you're wrong because I suck and I have no such talent as you describe"? Not for me to judge. I can accept how they feel. Obviously they are not retarded so their opinion is actually valid. Sorry. I just don't accept the argument you've made at all. I still think your music is great and very much worth studying however, so it doesn't change my viewpoint in that respect (which of course it shouldn't).

Blarhg


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jnry3

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Posted at: 3/30/08 06:28 AM

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At 3/30/08 06:13 AM, joshhunsaker wrote: <One awesome read above this reply.>

Nice! Reply that... er... reply... oh well... to Nick's page. Should be fun having a gigantic read over there.

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joshhunsaker

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Posted at: 3/30/08 06:32 AM

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Just one more note:

Perrin - you say "I suck". Let me give you a little bit of a paradigm change. You are 19 years old. Your scores are on par with professionally produced scores for world-famous series like 24 and Smallville. You are probably the best classical composer on a top-notch website hosting likely tens of thousands of musicians from across the world. You have a musical sample library worth quite a few thousands of dollars.

You have a niche that really would be tough for anyone to challenge you in. Seriously - I'd like to see another 19 year old composer ANYWHER IN THE WORLD with your ability. The point is that your music could likely be swapped into a movie like "Vantage Point" (great score) without anyone suspecting anything. That's the whole point. You have the same programs, the same skills, the same vision as those working in very very very high profile productions. So your work doesn't get sent off to be processed by a bunch of manley compressors and passive massenburg eqs? So what?

Blarhg


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NickPerrin

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Posted at: 3/30/08 11:34 AM

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At 3/30/08 06:13 AM, joshhunsaker wrote: I have to apologize because honestly - I used to feel the exact same way about my music. It was so sacred to me. It was some unconquerable monster that I was the servant of. No. That's bullsh*t to me now. I don't serve music - it serves me. I simply don't have time to feel sorry for myself anymore that I am so lowly a creature as to be facing some seemingly insurmountable task of becoming a "good" composer.

Hey man. I just realized, I must not have made things very clear in my rant, but then again, the rant was pretty much just a stream of thoughts so I doubt anything is clear. I'll go fix that.

This is because I basically agree with pretty much everything in your massive post above!!

And by saying "you suck" I don't mean to take a negative perspective on things. In fact I'm going to go back now and make clear my positivity. I simply mean this whole thing as a kind of "you always have to be improving" kind of speech.

And here's the thing - you are one of the people who DID something about it. In fact, I'm unknowingly following in your footsteps. I have been playing piano for less than a year and I'm tackling pieces way beyond my level, doing ear training on my own, practicing every day, ETC. So you know.... this rant is kind of lost on you because you already "get" it haha.

Thanks for the comments, like I said, I agree with pretty much everything you said.


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Envy

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Posted at: 3/30/08 02:55 PM

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How are we supposed to enjoy music knowing that it all sucks? Thats not the point... The point is to be proud of your own work so you can enjoy it... Just sucking doesnt give me any motivation to move on.

Let me be awesome >8(

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joshhunsaker

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Posted at: 3/30/08 03:28 PM

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At 3/30/08 11:34 AM, NickPerrin wrote: I have been playing piano for less than a year and I'm tackling pieces way beyond my level, doing ear training on my own, practicing every day, ETC. So you know.... this rant is kind of lost on you because you already "get" it haha.

Well, heck. The fact that you've only played piano for that long makes what you've done all the more unbelievable...

Blarhg


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sorohanro

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Posted at: 3/30/08 04:02 PM

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so ... you are 19 and usually at that age (betwen 14 and 22) people want to start revolutions ... not a bad thing
but i can't let you live a life in ignorance so i'll post here a list of NG composers who don't suck
Winterwind-NS he is 17 ad is a really great composer, his style is close to Rachmaninov and he play piano like no one else
No1r is a great guitar player and a good composer, he can write from romantic orchestral music to hot jazz/ funk and rock, he is good and improving every day
Yosmil if you like "Classical" music, this one will be your favourite
Win Tang well, my mom's favourite composer from NG (and she is a piano teacher)
on electronic music you have Rig and snoballandthmonyshot who are very different styles but both are awesome
Ssm-Nw is a good musician, probably the best jazz composer here, he made some comercials for Mercedes and fashion shows, that tell you something about the league he's in.
Florain a good one, he usually is a bass player, we were in same and, now he work in a studio and this year almost won the Eurovision in Romania with his band
also on Rock/ Metal/ Guitar Hero stuff you have Metalcan, Bad Man inc., Kingbastard, Metaljonus, DarKside555 ...
and many more, including myself , i worked 5 years in State Philarmony of Targu-Mures as first trumpet player, 2 years at the Romanian National Opera from Cluj-Napoca and as a composer i made music for 16 theatre plays and 3 movies.
for my last theatre play i made music for, they payed me 3000 Euros.
...
suck to be ignorant, doesen't it ?


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NickPerrin

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Posted at: 3/30/08 04:08 PM

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At 3/30/08 04:02 PM, sorohanro wrote: suck to be ignorant, doesen't it ?

No, see, your post outlined EXACTLY what I mean. You obviously didn't read the rant, because your list of NG composers is EXACTLY one of the main points I was getting across. I even mentioned Winterwind once in there.


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NickPerrin

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Posted at: 3/30/08 04:17 PM

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At 3/30/08 04:12 PM, sorohanro wrote: didn't mentioned me :p

Haha... well, thanks to this rant, I discovered you! I knew about most of the artist you listed already, but just today discovered you and your music. Been listening to a bunch of it today, definitely enjoying it.

Also, congratulations on the 3000 euros job. Not often a musician makes solid cash like that, haha.


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NickPerrin

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Posted at: 3/30/08 04:27 PM

NickPerrin NEUTRAL LEVEL 05

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At 3/30/08 04:02 PM, sorohanro wrote: but i can't let you live a life in ignorance so i'll post here a list of NG composers who don't suck

So yeah, I've just updated the rant to more clearly reflect the fact that it includes me as one of the people who "sucks".

And remember, everyone, it's nigh impossible to detect sarcasm over the internet, so for the record - DON'T TAKE EVERYTHING IN THE RANT TOO SERIOUSLY! Especially the line "you suck." I mean it in a fun way. While there is a certain seriousness to the message, I would never tell you with a straight face "you suck" unless you actually were REALLY horrible.


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sorohanro

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Posted at: 3/30/08 04:29 PM

sorohanro LIGHT LEVEL 17

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that was the biggest 'till now (sez him blushing)

anyway, there are very good musicians here, also a lot of crap... likeA LOT, and that is what is getting usually in top.
some 14 years old kid make a crappy dance/ tehno/ trance/whatever and with his bunch of friends mass vote it and downvote or even 0 bomb the other stuff in tos, so, after a while good music, made by people who have a life also outside NG, get out of top and crap get on top ... i see that also on Flash Portal sometimes :(
maby is more usefull to make a list ofgood composers and post it


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SolusLunes

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Posted at: 3/30/08 11:42 PM

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One of the orchestral composers here that you missed (and it's a damned shame) is MaestroRage. :D


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joshhunsaker

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Posted at: 3/31/08 03:34 AM

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At 3/30/08 04:02 PM, sorohanro wrote: and many more, including myself , i worked 5 years in State Philarmony of Targu-Mures as first trumpet player, 2 years at the Romanian National Opera from Cluj-Napoca and as a composer i made music for 16 theatre plays and 3 movies.
for my last theatre play i made music for, they payed me 3000 Euros.
...
suck to be ignorant, doesen't it ?

You are 32 on the other hand. And granted - yes - your music is still fantastic and mind blowing (I thought so at least) but the fact is that there are respectively very very few prodigies out there...

Even if they don't make money. Connections are half of this problem. In the music business, it really is who you know. A lot of mixing engineers got their start because their parents friends were famous musicians engineers, fill in the blanks.

Blarhg


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sorohanro

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Posted at: 3/31/08 05:28 AM

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At 3/30/08 11:42 PM, SolusLunes wrote: One of the orchestral composers here that you missed (and it's a damned shame) is MaestroRage. :D

Fuck... you'r right, how could this happen
this should be fixed FAST !!!
so, here:
Maestro Rage

At 3/31/08 03:34 AM, joshhunsaker wrote:
At 3/30/08 04:02 PM, sorohanro wrote: and many more, including myself , i worked 5 years in State Philarmony of Targu-Mures as first
.... bla bla bla:
You are 32 on the other hand. And granted - yes - your music is still fantastic and mind blowing (I thought so at least) but the fact is that there are respectively very very few prodigies out there...

Even if they don't make money. Connections are half of this problem. In the music business, it really is who you know. A lot of mixing engineers got their start because their parents friends were famous musicians engineers, fill in the blanks.

my dad was totally against me playing guitar, but here i am playing also guitar
thanx forthe compliments ;)
i agree partly on the things you say about conections but now if you think of music industry, is more a matter of image
you have tits, you sell- you don't have tits, you don't sell
as for the music music, there are people graduating Berklee Music Academy and not getting ANY job ...


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joshhunsaker

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Posted at: 3/31/08 05:37 AM

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At 3/31/08 05:28 AM, sorohanro wrote:
At 3/30/08 11:42 PM, SolusLunes wrote: One of the orchestral composers here that you missed (and it's a damned shame) is MaestroRage. :D
Fuck... you'r right, how could this happen
this should be fixed FAST !!!
so, here:
Maestro Rage

lol

as for the music music, there are people graduating Berklee Music Academy and not getting ANY job ...

Well - at the same time - I've looked at some of the websites of very prominent polytechnical colleges showcasing examples of absolutely perturbingly crappy music done by their students. Furthermore - just because you graduate from a university of any sort does not mean you have connections. Usually - it works just the other way around...people normally get degrees in composition because they don't have the connections they would need otherwise.

Blarhg


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