A Change In The Licencing!!!

[InsaneSmilie]

Has anyone noticed this? The Licensing Terms listed under our songs no longer say non-commercial. They used to, but now if you look at the Licencing terms section they now just say Attribution and Share Alike, and if you click on it it brings up this page.

Does this mean our work is now free for commercial use?
Did NG change this or was it creative commons?

Based on the creative commons legal code, our licence is now classified as a type 3 CC licence, or "Voluntary License Schemes", which makes me think this change was made by Newgrounds, and not creative commons. This new licence scheme means we sacrifice all right to royalties for our music.

As far as I know this is not legal either. We submitted our songs under a non-commercial licence, and now that licence has been changed without our consent. I mean I didn't get a letter or email asking me if it was OK to change my licence.

So now I ask the rest of you Audio artists, Are you OK with this? And what do you think should be done?

[loogiesquared]

so this means what to me...?

srsly.

[littlerampage08]

I don't like that at all.

[Testicle]

What the hell? That's fucked up..

[Rucklo]

I think that somone from the staff should come down and explain why the change has been made, and be perfectly honest with what it means for us, the artists.

I am perfectly fine with the fact that NG can use the music in any way they want for economical benefit, or rather expose the music any way they want and the rest of the terms that flash authors can use the music, free of charge etc.

I haven't looked further into the CC terms today, if there is anything changed in the terms linked to on every songpage or not (since I don't have time to do so right now), but yeah, I definitley think it would be fair to get an explanation of what this mean for the artists. But I really don't want my music to be freely used for commercial purposes outside NG, if this now is the case. It's mainly a matter of principles.

But yeah, it'd be good if an admin could explain what the deal really is, how we are affeted etc.

[joshhunsaker]

InsaneSmile:

Your suspicions are (sadly) correct. Newgrounds is now legally under a non-commercial license. Meaning every song that has ever and is now archived on this site can be used for someone else's commercial gain (and likewise proven in court with a simple desktop snapshot of the song page). You'll notice on the following webpage - it gives a breakdown of the 6 different CC licenses that are available:

http://creativecommons.org/about/license /

It looks like I'll be having to remove some music because a few of the songs I have up are in fact going to be used for commercial purposes. Why this change has been made is rather a good question - and in reality could be grounds for a lawsuit if someone could show that they were taken advantage of during the short period of time that this has been in effect. I'm starting to loose faith in a lot of these internet artist ventures lately...

[TheComet]

Another thing to consider is also if a song is used by something created by NG or it's affiliates that has user created audio in it, I believe there was a contest 2 years ago or so for NG musicians to create tracks for a commercial game's audio

Personally, this has no impact on me since I don't have a record deal or anything, but I can see some issues if someone gets one and want to include one of their songs from NG.

I'm curious why we can't choose our own liscense like DeviantArt (for example) lets users do, that could probably help ease various concerns down the lines of this

[VegetarianMeat]

Hi, I recently sent an email to Tom Fulp before this change was made regarding compensation from some guy (he wasn't willing to pay me). In his reply he said they, "...have something in the works that will partially address this, at least with money earned within NG, and I think the results will be pretty exciting. :)" Perhaps my PM prompted this change in license?

[loogiesquared]

At 3/15/08 07:25 PM, VegetarianMeat wrote: Perhaps my PM prompted this change in license?

then Rig'll kill you.

[Rig]

WTF?? They changed it without notifying us??? This is a big deal!

If they don't provide an explanation, I'll have to start deleting my songs.

[TheComet]

I sent Tom a pm (although I'm probably not the first) and linked him to this thread, hopefully he'll read it and see our concerns

[Rig]

At 3/15/08 07:43 PM, TheComet wrote: I sent Tom a pm (although I'm probably not the first) and linked him to this thread, hopefully he'll read it and see our concerns

I sent one too.

[TMM43]

I'm NOT down with this.
I only submit music to NG because of that CC! Now that it's gone, I might not submit anymore...We need some one to explain, now!

[snayk]

I was just about to make a thread about this...

As he mentioned above, my brother, VegetarianMeat, was having some problems concerning compensation and sent a PM to Tom. I really hope this isn't the 'exciting change' Tom had in mind.

I've always found this part of NG to be kind of ambiguous. I take it most audio artists don't (or didn't) really know that they were entitled to any compensation. I didn't even know until I was one day PMed by somebody offering me compensation for a game. I've been paid several times for my work, between ten and twenty percent.

Music is one of the most important aspects of movies and games, and I don't think it's fair that Flash authors can make money on submissions using our songs. I'm happy that someone can profit from my work, but I should at least get a percentage.

I don't like that the license was just changed with all of our work sitting on the site, either. Our rights have been stripped without any notification.

I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm worried I might have to start deleting my music, and I'd really rather not have to.

Picture I made when I planned to start this thread:

[Shamukh]

Alright, so I don't really post on the NG forums. But I was just linked to this thread, and wanna say that this is a pretty bad decision overall... It's also pretty messed up that they didn't give audio artists a heads-up in the least.

I hope we get a reasonable explanation soon.

[genee]

well ill have to delete my stuff and never post again..... too bad

[TheComet]

At 3/15/08 08:01 PM, genee wrote: well ill have to delete my stuff and never post again..... too bad

hold on for a week at least people, the wonder of NG is that the staff actually listen to people (eventually lol), and there's a handful of us now who are concerned over this.
Let the staff take notice of the complaint, then once there is a final decision, THEN you should choose whether you want to keep or delete your stuff.

[InsaneSmilie]

At 3/15/08 06:39 PM, Rucklo wrote: I think that somone from the staff should come down and explain why the change has been made, and be perfectly honest with what it means for us, the artists.

I am perfectly fine with the fact that NG can use the music in any way they want for economical benefit, or rather expose the music any way they want and the rest of the terms that flash authors can use the music, free of charge etc.

I haven't looked further into the CC terms today, if there is anything changed in the terms linked to on every songpage or not (since I don't have time to do so right now), but yeah, I definitley think it would be fair to get an explanation of what this mean for the artists. But I really don't want my music to be freely used for commercial purposes outside NG, if this now is the case. It's mainly a matter of principles.

You are entiled to your opinion Rucklo but as it stands this is illegal since many submitted our songs under a non-commercial licence, and now that licence has been changed without our consent (uless their's some fine print in the licence agreement I missed). Also if you read that section of the creative commons legal code (it's in section 3) The new licence alows anyone to use our work comericaly for any reason, with or without our concent.

At 3/15/08 07:49 PM, Rig wrote:

At 3/15/08 07:43 PM, TheComet wrote: I sent Tom a pm (although I'm probably not the first) and linked him to this thread, hopefully he'll read it and see our concerns

I sent one too.

I PMed Wade, we someone to come down here and explain this. Plus I don't feel it's fair to go accusing the staff of anything until we've heard there side of the story as Rucklo said.

At 3/15/08 07:25 PM, TheComet wrote: Personally, this has no impact on me since I don't have a record deal or anything, but I can see some issues if someone gets one and want to include one of their songs from NG.

I'm curious why we can't choose our own liscense like DeviantArt (for example) lets users do, that could probably help ease various concerns down the lines of this

It does effect you because your effectively giving up your right to make any money on that song. This whould effectively get rid of all the good music on the audio portal. I mean I whouldn't knowly post any quality work here, knowing that I whouldn't be able to make any money off it.

Be able to choose our own liscense is a good idea though, I'm still waiting for a member of the NG staff to come down and explain themselves.

[TheComet]

At 3/15/08 08:12 PM, InsaneSmilie wrote: It does effect you because your effectively giving up your right to make any money on that song. This whould effectively get rid of all the good music on the audio portal. I mean I whouldn't knowly post any quality work here, knowing that I whouldn't be able to make any money off it.

I was referring to myself only since I'm all not-for-profit for AWHILE, but yeah I see your point there big time. Recod deal hunters and independent artists beware

[ChocloMan]

I say we remove every song we can until this is changed.

[TheComet]

At 3/15/08 08:19 PM, ChocloMan wrote: I say we remove every song we can until this is changed.

So you're saying we should send the site into panic because all the audio went poof for an extended amount of time? bad idea.

[InsaneSmilie]

At 3/15/08 08:19 PM, ChocloMan wrote: I say we remove every song we can until this is changed.

Lets awile, see if one of the staff members comes down an explains, mabey we can get them to relize this is a bad idea.

[ChocloMan]

What? It's an excellent idea.

Maybe. D:

[TheComet]

I just tested something quick that some people might think is the issue and did a select all copy paste into notepad to see if the non-commercial liscense info was just pushed underneath one of the other graphics due to a slipup in a table or something like that, but it's not there alltogether

[Luis]

This is an interesting issue. The concern itself is valid, I think that as an artist in your own right, you deserve a bit if theres money being passed. I think that one of the problems with the audio portal was that it didnt account for the huge influx of sponsorships and stuff when it was created... you have to figure that the flash scene itself sort of was transormed into a sponsor driven industry rather recently. Newgrounds is sort of late on the ball on alot of things.. anyone whos been here long enough knows that. This is no different, and it struggles to address an issue that probably should have been addressed in from the beginning in a perfect world.

Anyhow Tom's master plan will definately strive to make coauthoring a more robust and profitable activity.. I'm not really at liberty to discuss the specifics of it but I mention it because its definately coming down the pike and its not like you all are being swept under the rug. I think for the time being ... it might help to add your own little disclaimer in your audio description field. So worse comes to shove you do have some sort of documentation to fight for the compensation you deserve. It seems like its just one of those ugly transition periods right now.

Meh i thought i'd pop in and give my thoughts on it.

[TheComet]

I understand what you mean Luis but if there is some reason the non commercial liscense won't be in after the "Master Plan" is done, it should at least be there until the change is eventually made before some crazy legal shit starts going on...and we all know that legal issues+Newgrounds = massive headache for all of us

[New-Milkman]

Alright, so here's my theory on why I think they changed the licensing to commercially available;

Most people should know about the Pico Day Flash Contest '08, because it's been advertised at the very top of the forums. In that news thread, Tom made sure to plug our Mac8 - (feb-mar) Pillars Of Pico Contest, and encouraged people to browse through the submissions for suitable music for their flashes. There's a good chance that Flash artists won't want to pay for their soundtracks, because if they were to win anything, they would have to pay the audio artist some of the money. (And with first prize being $3000 USD, it might be a bit hard to split.) With the CC set as commercially available, the music they use from the MAC8 can be used completely free, and maybe it will cut down on people using non-commercial music from signed artists (which would result in even more legal problems). Hell, even in the Audio Optimization section of Newgrounds' Flash Help says that "We highly discourage using commercial music; try to look around for audio that's royalty-free. We have our own archive of free music in the growing NG Audio Portal."

So if what I think is right, this CC agreement could be in place until the Pico Flash contest is over.

[DSMagnum]

Initially when I heard about this, I wasn't too happy. Then I thought about it for a second and realized something. Remember back before the redesign? Remember how the audio portal was very basic, and every song was on one page? Well, I'm sure you guys remember that there were no licenses back then. For those of you who were there, don't start whining now. You've done it before, you can stand to do it now. And for all the people who plan on deleting their songs, what are the chances of your song actually getting used commercially? Really, think about it a little guys.

[CrazyCookie]

I don't think that's the case, Milkman. Or else people should be getting money from the monthly winners too and such. And there have been contests in the past that had rather large sums of money involved and (to my knowledge) the agreement was not altered. Not to mention that it already stated that people could use them in their flash works for Newgrounds for free.

I don't really mind about the change in license terms but it would have been nice if we were given an explanation as to why. Or at least informed. :/

[DSMagnum]

I forgot another thing. You guys should be honored if someone were to even consider using one of your songs for anything. There's no need to get money for it. You should be happy enough with the acknowledgement you get.