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At 3/3/08 01:33 AM, Musician wrote: So let me get this strait... you're afraid of Obama because:

a) He supports affirmative action
b) He's the member of a black church

Am I getting the jist of it?

It's quite apparent that you didn't read half of what he just said. Tone and opinion are revealed through details, Musician.
Details.

At 3/16/08 09:54 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Obama gives the man very high praise in his book.

So what? I give my spanish teacher high praise for teaching me to speak spanish! that doesn't mean I agree with him (he's conservative)

Not a single thing about obama's history of the church proves that he visited INFREQUENTLY, enough to miss his spiritual mentor's bigoted sermons.

There's nothing to prove it either way, you're the one who's making an assumption in order to support your argument. Wan't to know something? Whether he was visiting the reverend frequently or infrequently is irrelevant, because Obama says he wasn't there, and theres NO evidence to contradict that.

Also, if he really was there during those sermons, don't you think it's a little strange nobody has called him on that? especially seeing as those sermons were given PRESS COVERAGE.

I never said that. I don't even beleive that. I enjoy watching obama squirm politically for the first time when, like hillary said, the media had been , up untill now, completely saintly to him. [undeservedly] I

then what is the point of asking "why didn't obama just say outright he doesn't believe in the white devil"? Obviously something like that was on your mind.

Assumption which disregards Obama's history with the church and the factual information about it.
Almost 20 years of a self proclaimed close relationship [Fact] with the man who is on his campaign council [Fact] , then denies that he knew that he said those things.

Only it doesn't disregard ANY factual information at all: Obama was friends with Wright throughout his life, had his kids baptized by him, was married to his wife by him, he never heard about Wright's statements on 9/11 until the beginning of his campaign when he was deciding to put him on his SPIRITUAL council. When he found out he detested the comments but decided to hire him onto his campaign because he was still friends with Wright and Wright was close to retirement anyways.

Given the facts we know, where is there a definite inaccuracy in any of that? Oh wait, there isn't one.

The KKK is religiously based, and you will seldom find agnostic KKK's, And why are you getting numerical

No the KKK is RACIALLY based, the fact that the majority of its members are religious has nothing to do with its message.

Hardly matters that you are more kindhearted than the hordes of politically correct pundits who would snap at someone who went to a white separatist church. [The very notion is segregationist and looked down heavilly upon, There are no self proclaimed 'exclusively white' church.

Arg, i have to go sorry.

Only problem is the media doesn't have anything to do with this discussion we're having right now, It's about you and me and our opinions on the issue. If you want to hold Obama to the same standards the media does, then that's fine, but keep in mind that the media LIVES off of drama like this.

At 3/16/08 10:14 PM, alternativesolution wrote: It's quite apparent that you didn't read half of what he just said. Tone and opinion are revealed through details, Musician.
Details.

So you're saying that isn't his argument? As a matter of fact, I read the entire thing, so why don't you tell me exactly what "details" were relevant enough to warrant another point.

At 3/16/08 05:39 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Occam's razor!?

LAUGHING MY FUCKING ASS OFF!

Obama: "I didn't know my pastor of 20+ years was a racist"

Musician: "Sounds logical to me!"

lolwhataloser

It's funny how you think Occam's Razor mean that the logical argument is prefered. It simply states that the simplest answer should be given preference. As in the argument that takes the most libertys given the evidence present. For example, SmileRoyalez and cellardorr6's arguments both jumped to many un-provable conclusions, mine didn't, thus the arguments I make which make little assumptions given the facts should be given preference under Occam's Razor

Nice job making a total idiot out of yourself though

:lolwhataloser

At 3/16/08 04:33 PM, uhnoesanoob wrote: Musician, Barack Obama said it himself;

HE IS A DEVOUT CHRISTIAN.

Therefore, he would obviously have ties with his pastor of two decades.

What the fuck are you talking about? When did I ever say that Obama wasn't a devout christian?

Never, that's when. Learn to read.

At 3/16/08 11:54 PM, Musician wrote: As in the argument that takes the most libertys given the evidence present.

*least

At 3/16/08 11:58 PM, Musician wrote:

At 3/16/08 11:54 PM, Musician wrote: As in the argument that takes the most libertys given the evidence present.

*least

No, no, you're wrong again. I'm always right, and you are a loser. Watch.

What's the most logical conclusion you can draw from the relationship of two people who've invested so much time and energy into one another?

Get it straight kiddo, I'm not cellardoor or anyone else. You trying to pull an Occam's Razor out your ass, in your favor no less, is comical.

I use comical in lieu of funny.

At 3/17/08 12:04 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: No, no, you're wrong again. I'm always right, and you are a loser. Watch.

What's the most logical conclusion you can draw from the relationship of two people who've invested so much time and energy into one another?

why don't you just come out and say it? Are you trying to say that he knew about Wright's racial comments? If so you have no evidence to support that claim.

Get it straight kiddo, I'm not cellardoor or anyone else. You trying to pull an Occam's Razor out your ass, in your favor no less, is comical.

How exactly am I pulling Occam's Razor out of my ass? Why does nobody ever elaborate on what exactly they mean? Is it because if you know that Occam's Razor does favor me, and is a legitimate point, and if you were forced to elaborate, you would make a fool out of yourself?

At 3/17/08 12:09 AM, Musician wrote:

At 3/17/08 12:04 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: No, no, you're wrong again. I'm always right, and you are a loser. Watch.

What's the most logical conclusion you can draw from the relationship of two people who've invested so much time and energy into one another?

why don't you just come out and say it? Are you trying to say that he knew about Wright's racial comments?

I'm saying Wright didn't change his tune these past few weeks. Apply the razor to that, my friend.

Get it straight kiddo, I'm not cellardoor or anyone else. You trying to pull an Occam's Razor out your ass, in your favor no less, is comical.

How exactly am I pulling Occam's Razor out of my ass?

By being ignorant.

Why does nobody ever elaborate on what exactly they mean?

Because it bounces of fyour head.

Is it because if you know that Occam's Razor does favor me, and is a legitimate point, and if you were forced to elaborate, you would make a fool out of yourself?

For me, I like watching you post. It's funny how retarded you can be.

Try giving others the benefit of the doubt for once, it'll help you understand why everyone thinks you can't function in society.

At 3/17/08 12:15 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: I'm saying Wright didn't change his tune these past few weeks. Apply the razor to that, my friend.

And Obama has admitted to knowing about Wright's comments since the beginning of his campaign.
And Obama has already said that Wright was he spiritual adviser, not his political adviser.
So what exactly is your point again?

By being ignorant.

Thanks for being so detailed in your response. I appreciate it.

Because it bounces of fyour head.

Very elaborate of you.

For me, I like watching you post. It's funny how retarded you can be.

Try giving others the benefit of the doubt for once, it'll help you understand why everyone thinks you can't function in society.

Right... well it seems like you're not interested in having an intelligent discussion... or supporting any of your points, and have degenerated into petty name calling.

Nice.

So lemme help you:

At 3/15/08 02:15 AM, Musician wrote: Who says he was preaching that? Obama's already stated that he's shocked and angered by the reverends recent comments. If we're believing Obama, then obviously the reverend was never so outspoken before.

Let's see if he's had any inflammatory remarks ON RECORD.

Ya know, i'm not even going to do this much, because I already know the answer. Look it up for yourself you lazy bastard.

the same reason as above, Reverend isn't exactly a personal position, it's quite possible that all he did was read passages from the bible and interpret them, I haven't been to church a lot, but when I went there as a kid, the priest didn't usually tell us his personal feelings on political issues.

Um, that's what's sermons are . . . the pastors personal feeling on issues . . .

And that personal position you claim clergy DOESN'T have? You're dead fucking wrong.

Anyone with any sort of exposure would know this. Truly you don't, and therefor your opinion matters THAT much less to everyone who understands the simple thing here, that you apparently don't.

Also, why are pastors of the UTCC on the Obama campaign team if obama claims they do not influence his descisions. It's like me appointing total strangers to be my school election campaign advisers. = no logic

First of all, how about you provide a source for that. secondly, Just because they're members of the church doesn't mean he picked them BECAUSE they're part of the church.

Yeah, they pick them FOR THEIR VIEWS.

Fuck man, and you thought you could use something as capitalized as Occam's Razor? Please.

Why should he even have to? It's pretty obvious that he doesn't. Not to mention, Obama is half white, and was raised by a white family.

stoopid.

At 3/17/08 12:21 AM, Enk-lore wrote: i still don't get it

It's okay, I'm here to help you.

See?

At 3/17/08 12:22 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: So lemme help you:

This will be good.

At 3/15/08 02:15 AM, Musician wrote:

Let's see if he's had any inflammatory remarks ON RECORD.

Ya know, i'm not even going to do this much, because I already know the answer. Look it up for yourself you lazy bastard.

So now we're quoting posts from earlier in the thread? Chances are Obama knew that Wright had differing political views from him are high, but chances that he saw the sermons? not so high.

Um, that's what's sermons are . . . the pastors personal feeling on issues . . .

No, the sermons are the pastor's interpretation on RELIGIOUS issues, usually from a holy book.

And that personal position you claim clergy DOESN'T have? You're dead fucking wrong.

Um, no a Reverand isn't any more personal of a position than, for example. a doctor is. Here, meet doctor Meyers:

He circumcised my kids
He hooked me up with a good Nutritionist
He helped me through that time I had a heart attack

Thanks Dr. Meyers! you're a pal

although, not exactly a "great mentor".

Anyone with any sort of exposure would know this. Truly you don't, and therefor your opinion matters THAT much less to everyone who understands the simple thing here, that you apparently don't.

That or you're terrible at reading.

Yeah, they pick them FOR THEIR VIEWS.

You just love to pick at old quotes don't you? I was under the assumption at that time that the church members were picked for the political aspect of his campaign, not the spiritual guidance council. The members of the church were there to give him religious guidance, not political guidance.

Fuck man, and you thought you could use something as capitalized as Occam's Razor? Please.

Coming from you? Who made it apparent in his first post here that he has NO idea what Occam's Razor is?

stoopid.

OOOOOOOH you got me there!

Grow up.

C'mon you guys, it's obvious that Obama is just going to church because white people do it. He doesn't even know the guy who married him! I mean, Obama is a great judge of character! I mean, he couldn't have possibly known!

Really.

And I think that eating your own words, Enk-lore, means you need to watch what you type if you don't like it jammed in your piehole instead of your pooper.

Other people get tired of feeding you.

At 3/17/08 12:42 AM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: Other people get tired of feeding you.

Nice Alt

At 3/17/08 12:37 AM, Enk-lore wrote:

At 3/17/08 12:22 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: So lemme help you:

This will be good.

It's good because I started typing it before you responded how I knew you would. LoL.

So now we're quoting posts from earlier in the thread?

Yes. It's like a record of what you think and say. Tap "post" once if you can understand that much.

Chances are Obama knew that Wright had differing political views from him are high, but chances that he saw the sermons? not so high.

No, you are wrong.

Um, that's what's sermons are . . . the pastors personal feeling on issues . . .

No, the sermons are the pastor's interpretation on RELIGIOUS issues, usually from a holy book.

You don't go to any church, you said so yourself. Where do you get your opinion from?

And that personal position you claim clergy DOESN'T have? You're dead fucking wrong.

Um, no a Reverand isn't any more personal of a position than, for example. a doctor is. Here, meet doctor Meyers:

Wrong again. The spirit does not equal the body, nor does the relationship one has with their pastor equal any other relationship. You are trying to equate things you don't understand, which is fine, as long as you learn from your mistakes, which you aren't.

Anyone with any sort of exposure would know this. Truly you don't, and therefor your opinion matters THAT much less to everyone who understands the simple thing here, that you apparently don't.

That or you're terrible at reading.

Takes two, kiddo. I'm trying to help you out, so you don't look like a fool. You don't want help though, being foolish works just fine for you.

Congrats on that. I'm sure that's what you've been striving for.

At 3/17/08 12:45 AM, Enk-lore wrote:

At 3/17/08 12:42 AM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: Other people get tired of feeding you.

Nice Alt

It won UTOD last month. UOTD stands for User of the Day, meaning Newgrounds likes me.

OCCAMS R4Z0R5!!!1

lol I'm gunna remember that one...

At 3/17/08 12:51 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

So now we're quoting posts from earlier in the thread?

Yes. It's like a record of what you think and say. Tap "post" once if you can understand that much.

Only problem with that logic being positions change during an argument when new evidence comes to light. I mean obviously not for you since you won't yeild any of your position even when the evidence doesn't support it, but for those of us more intelligent than yourself it is a common occurrence.

No, you are wrong.

Gotta love these answers.

You don't go to any church, you said so yourself. Where do you get your opinion from?

I've BEEN to church

Wrong again. The spirit does not equal the body, nor does the relationship one has with their pastor equal any other relationship. You are trying to equate things you don't understand, which is fine, as long as you learn from your mistakes, which you aren't.

So just how personal are you exactly with your pastor?

Takes two, kiddo. I'm trying to help you out, so you don't look like a fool. You don't want help though, being foolish works just fine for you.

It only takes one
And you're the one
And you're the fool

Congrats on that. I'm sure that's what you've been striving for.

Notice how you haven't supported anything you've said so far? Most of your answers consist of "Nope", "stoopid", or "Think about it". Want to know what I think? You're totally full of shit, you have no argument, and you're just a goddamn troll.

At 3/17/08 12:55 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: It won UTOD last month. UOTD stands for User of the Day, meaning Newgrounds likes me.

OCCAMS R4Z0R5!!!1

lol I'm gunna remember that one...

And you further prove you have no clue what Occam's Razor is. It has nothing to do with popular opinion either (even if that was how UOTD is selected). Try again

I found another reason to be pro-Obama:

http://www.wayofthemind.org/2008/02/21/o bama-on-religion/

The most moderate religious statement I've heard from any politician ever.

you gotta remember that Obama is a politician who would denounce his own mother in his quest for power. and i find it HIGHLY unlikely that his pastor is JUST NOW turning racist as Obama is running for president. Riiiiight.

Jeremiah: white people can NOT get in to heaven. they are white devils.

Obama; WTF?!?!

Jeremiah: yeah you heard me. whity is doomed to the pits of hell, because of their skin color!

Obama: Ima denounce you!

Critics: Obama has a racist pastor!

Obama: Hey, don't talk bad about my pastor! its just words!

Critics: bull fucking shit!

Obama:[whispering] people, cmon, you're killing my chance of getting elected.

Critics: thats your problem, bitch! you been listening to this pastor for 20 years! and you are just now denouncing him? bullshit!

At 3/15/08 08:47 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: LOl.

It might have been more convincing and less obvious as a complete load of garbage had you actually separated these two trains of thought into different posts.

They're in the same post for a reason. I said I didn't want Wright to be a part of the Obama campaign. He no longer is. You've got a nasty habit of trying to put words in peoples mouths so you can formulate arguments against them that never existed in the first place. I agreed with you in the sense that he would be guilty by continued association. Not only was Wright asked to leave the campaign, his radical views are routinely rejected and denounced by Obama. More important than that, no speeches or voting records of Obama's coincide with the radical views of Reverend Wright. I know it might come as a shock, but it appears that they're two different people.

I'm not going to defend Reverend Wright, other than the stand by his right to say whatever he wants. But if you honestly expect me to judge Barack Obama's character by the words and actions of not only an entirely different person, but in no way, shape, or form reflects by Barack Obama character himself, your approach to this issue may be a lot more close-minded than you're leading yourself to believe.

I have ignorant, narrow minded, and borderline racists in my close family as well. I guess that makes me guilty of all their actions, as well. After all, if they said it, I must agree with everything they say and do; lock and step.

You were a lot more on target with saying there was a double-standard being utilized by the Obama campaign. I don't completely agree with it, but it makes more sense than than the current tangent you've found yourself on.

It doesnt matter anyway. The Grand Old Party's slander machine will eat Obama ALIVE during the presidential race.

Mark my words RIGHT NOW because I'll be more than happy to apologize and recant if Im wrong: McCain is gonna win.

If we could get Bush in office for a second term, even when over half of the country couldnt stand him, we'll get McCain in.

On a side note, I find it ironic and HILARIOUS that the Republican party was formed because we were so strongly against slavery, and the Democratic party was so firm in their pro slavery beliefs, and here we are, about 150 years later and the pro slavery party's front runner is a black man.

Hear that? Thats the sound of Lincoln's corpse laughing its ass off.

At 3/17/08 06:45 PM, PantyWipe wrote:

On a side note, I find it ironic and HILARIOUS that the Republican party was formed because we were so strongly against slavery, and the Democratic party was so firm in their pro slavery beliefs, and here we are, about 150 years later and the pro slavery party's front runner is a black man.

Hear that? Thats the sound of Lincoln's corpse laughing its ass off.

That's an awesome history lesson you have given... One that ignores precedent and acting on public opinion in order to gain office, and the result of this change.

Mit Romney was slandered by Evangelicals for being a mormon [In attempts to save Huckabee's Ass] , Mccain was Slandered by conservatives for his liberal voting record [in attempts of saving romney's ass] Hillary was slandered for being a bitch who couldn't bring about change [In order to save obamas Ass] And up Untill now, Obama hadn't been slandered by anyone. [Atleast not in anything that the media could gain hold of, and examine, and say, 'wow that's really suspicious']

The cycle is now complete. - Darth Vader

At 3/17/08 06:50 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: That's an awesome history lesson you have given... One that ignores precedent and acting on public opinion in order to gain office, and the result of this change.

*sigh* Im just tryin to break democrat balls.

Good gravy you people in the politics section are humorless.

At 3/17/08 06:45 PM, PantyWipe wrote: On a side note, I find it ironic and HILARIOUS that the Republican party was formed because we were so strongly against slavery, and the Democratic party was so firm in their pro slavery beliefs, and here we are, about 150 years later and the pro slavery party's front runner is a black man.

The Republicans were formed on the basis of non slavery, that's true. But the Democrats at the time we're hardly united as a pro slavery party, they were divided between northen democrats (against slavery) and southern democrats (for slavery).

Musician look above, i fell
into the same trap.

At 3/17/08 11:17 AM, Korriken wrote: you gotta remember that Obama is a politician who would denounce his own mother in his quest for power. and i find it HIGHLY unlikely that his pastor is JUST NOW turning racist as Obama is running for president. Riiiiight.

Jeremiah: white people can NOT get in to heaven. they are white devils.

Obama; WTF?!?!

Jeremiah: yeah you heard me. whity is doomed to the pits of hell, because of their skin color!

Obama: Ima denounce you!

Critics: Obama has a racist pastor!

Obama: Hey, don't talk bad about my pastor! its just words!

Critics: bull fucking shit!

Obama:[whispering] people, cmon, you're killing my chance of getting elected.

Critics: thats your problem, bitch! you been listening to this pastor for 20 years! and you are just now denouncing him? bullshit!

L
M
F
A
O
!!!
i couldn't have said that better myself.

keep up with your values, dammit!
if you have none, and you denounce anything simply for uncertain and unjustified power, what the hell is your chance of people liking you?
No better candidates.
Reason being, they don't want anyone to end up like another Bush.
There's always gonna be flaws in these people who wanna run for power.
WE just have to pick out the deadliest flaws and make a good choice in who fits best. so far i haven't seen one perfect leader who hasn't had millions of Americans hating on him/her.
it just never goes the public's way, does it? everybody's way is too freaking different.
and no matter who gets elected, guess who's gonna be on top of the world? guess who's to blame?
the voters. and they ain't gonna claim no responsibilty for shit. if the majority of people go "BOO!!" then the whole country goes fking "BOO!!!!!"
i can't help but wonder why so many countries have this feeling of..dislike..among Americans.
>.>

Here's Obama's speech on race and about the comments the reverend made. Might as well post it since that's all this topic turned into.

<a>http://www.salon.com/news/primary_sou rces/2008/03/18/obama_speech/index.html

His speech was pretty clever. I feel bad about the whole issue now because it's annoying how much it has dominated the news, also because his polls have gone down, and basically Clinton has been given a boost. Though, at the same time I feel special because I made this thread before the story got big on the news.

Mixed feelings.

Anyway, this issue was the first major blow to Obama's campaign, it kind of took away that glee people were having about him being perfect, put things in check. Kind of like the abrupt mood shift in a coke binge, one minute you're all giddy, and then in an instant you feel gloomy and crappy. But that's nothing compared to the big come down that's going to happen. If Obama loses people are going to cry, I know people that will bawl their eyes out considering how infatuated they are with him.

So I hope his speech helped to take that momentary favor away from Clinton, because it's better that the Democratic race is as grueling and drawn out as possible, mostly because I like watching Clinton squirm.

But I'm sick of my own thread. I'm thoroughly bored of this topic.

Twah.

That's the nature of being the front-runner. Obama addressing the issue head on instead of ignoring it is refreshing. So far, he's taken every step I would expect out of a serious candidate for the presidency.

So far, Obama has:
1. Rejected and Denounced the Views of Lewis Farakahn
2. Rejected and Denounced the radical views of Reverend Jeremiah Wright
3Removed the involvement of Reverend Wright from the campaign
4. Spoke today (3/18/08) about how Wright has been family to him. And family says and does things we don't always agree with.

You know, at first seeing the views of Wright played over and over and over again on the news bugged me; it's an obvious attempt to shape political opinion by Obama's opponents. It stopped being informative a long time ago.

But now I'm glad. This is another perfect way to test Obama's fortitude as a presidential candidate. He has bounced back from every test he's been thrown into so far. What this really comes down to you is this, "Do you really think based off of this that Barack Obama is a jew-hating, anti-American racist?"

That's all this really comes down to, at this point. I think if you honestly look at Obama's record and character, you'll see this for the junk-politics smear campaign it's turned into. It's a great example of how the media can report honest, factual information and run the story over and over and over to contort and warp public opinion.

That should actually be "and" contort public opinion. I think the story's origin started out honest enough. It just got way out of control and completely dishonest.