Oil is NOT a fossil fuel

[Sp10x]

Ok, so basically NASA scientists have found out that there is an abundance of methane on Saturn's moon Titan. They have also determined that the methane is not of biological origin.

http://www.spacescan.org/entry/methane-o n-titan-is-abiotic-it-contradicts-fossil -fuel-theory/

the second article talks more in depth about these findings and covers some other things. How the oil gets to the surface for drilling for instance.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTI CLE_ID=38645

here is an excerpt from the article

"About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island. The portion underwater is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico, with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil.

By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000 barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990, production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400 million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oil was quantifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s."

[Kyle101]

New oil deep in the ground comes up, doesnt mean its not a fossil fuel, or thousands of animals died there and the pressure finally liquidfied them, retard.

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

And this makes it not a fossil fuel how?

[JudgeDredd]

COAL, METHANE, ...

"Fossil Fuel" is a term given to age-old non-renewable energy deposits. Just because there arn't any actual fossil or prehistoric animal remains in some fuel or other doesn't remove it from fossil fuel grouping.

..unless ofcourse you have a much better label to suggest?

[dySWN]

At 3/1/08 05:53 PM, Sp10x wrote: Lots of stuff

?

[Sp10x]

At 3/1/08 06:29 PM, JudgeDredd wrote:

COAL, METHANE, ...

"Fossil Fuel" is a term given to age-old non-renewable energy deposits. Just because there arn't any actual fossil or prehistoric animal remains in some fuel or other doesn't remove it from fossil fuel grouping.

..unless ofcourse you have a much better label to suggest?

Yes, an A biotic fuel

[stafffighter]

At 3/1/08 06:38 PM, Sp10x wrote:

At 3/1/08 06:29 PM, JudgeDredd wrote:

COAL, METHANE, ...

"Fossil Fuel" is a term given to age-old non-renewable energy deposits. Just because there arn't any actual fossil or prehistoric animal remains in some fuel or other doesn't remove it from fossil fuel grouping.

..unless ofcourse you have a much better label to suggest?

Yes, an A biotic fuel

The turn abiotic in no way dismisses the defintion already addressed. It's about the origion of the fuel yes but that dosen't make it new or renewable.

[The-evil-bucket]

At 3/1/08 06:09 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: And this makes it not a fossil fuel how?

I believe he's saying oil can't be a fossil fuel because methane was found on Saturn's moon Titan, and in theory, nothing ever died there.

I'm still working on making sense of his argument myself.

[Sp10x]

it is renewable considering it is constantly being made

[stafffighter]

At 3/1/08 07:02 PM, Sp10x wrote: it is renewable considering it is constantly being made

Fossil fuels are constantly being made, but not at a rate that'll do us any good.

[Gunter45]

Since when are methane and oil the same thing? One's the simplest hydrocarbon possible and the other is an incredibly long and complex carbon chain. I really fail to see how you can jump to the conclusion that since one can be produced inorganically, the other can, too. It's retarded.

[Sp10x]

At 3/1/08 07:07 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 3/1/08 07:02 PM, Sp10x wrote: it is renewable considering it is constantly being made

Fossil fuels are constantly being made, but not at a rate that'll do us any good.

ok did you read anything on how Oil is made? It isn't a FOSSIL FUEL seeing as it's not made from the remains of decomposed dinosaurs.

The amount of oil that we know about would take ridiculous amounts of dinosaurs to produce.
We are finding that there is oil VERY deep in the earth
Methane is a common molecule found in quantity throughout our solar system

oil is a "renewable, primordial soup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs."

basically METHANE + PRESSURE + HEAT + CENTRIFUGAL FORCE = OIL

[Sp10x]

At 3/1/08 07:20 PM, Gunter45 wrote: Since when are methane and oil the same thing? One's the simplest hydrocarbon possible and the other is an incredibly long and complex carbon chain. I really fail to see how you can jump to the conclusion that since one can be produced inorganically, the other can, too. It's retarded.

It's not that drastic a jump as you may think.

the theory is that the methane, under extreme heat and pressure deep in the earth, creates oil. then, via centrifugal force, the oil makes its way to the surface.

as to the appearance of methane on titan. That just shows that methane doesn't have to come from rotting dinos.

[ABsoldier17]

At 3/1/08 06:08 PM, Kyle101 wrote: New oil deep in the ground comes up, doesnt mean its not a fossil fuel, or thousands of animals died there and the pressure finally liquidfied them, retard.

The lowest a fossil has ever been found is 16,000 feet. Most modern wells are dug at 30,000. And since oil is lighter than water it would have a hard time getting pulled through rock. Also Russia has been drilling for oil using the abiotic model for years and they've surpassed Saudi Arabia as an oil provider.

[Al6200]

Just because some oil is not a fossil fuel does not mean that all oil is not a fossil fuel.

Furthermore, since we've seen the US hit peak oil already for its own small reserves, we know that oil doesn't naturally replenish itself at a rate consistent with our growing consumption.

So while I'm interested in the idea that oil is produced naturally and continuously, it's unlikely that it is relevant to the issues of future oil supply and peak oil.

[sexyman954]

At 3/1/08 10:13 PM, Al6200 wrote: Just because some oil is not a fossil fuel does not mean that all oil is not a fossil fuel.

Furthermore, since we've seen the US hit peak oil already for its own small reserves, we know that oil doesn't naturally replenish itself at a rate consistent with our growing consumption.

So while I'm interested in the idea that oil is produced naturally and continuously, it's unlikely that it is relevant to the issues of future oil supply and peak oil.

you are right but i think that 9 out of 10 are fossil fuels becasue oil prices keep going up.But i can be wrong so feel free to correct me.

[EndGameOmega]

At 3/1/08 05:53 PM, Sp10x wrote: Ok, so basically NASA scientists have found out that there is an abundance of methane on Saturn's moon Titan. They have also determined that the methane is not of biological origin.

Yes, it was an interesting find. They also found significant quantities of ethane and other simple hydrocarbons.

http://www.spacescan.org/entry/methane-o n-titan-is-abiotic-it-contradicts-fossil -fuel-theory/

Wow, could your link be anymore wrong? The hydrocarbons on titan are formed through a process called serpentinisation. Geologist already knew that serpentinisation occurs, that's nothing new. Thing is there are almost no spot on earth where serpentinisation could take place. You'd need a spot that relatively close to the surface, with a very large tempiture gradient and carbon sources. Places like this don't exist in any significant quantites.

the second article talks more in depth about these findings and covers some other things. How the oil gets to the surface for drilling for instance.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTI CLE_ID=38645

Oh, yeah that link just reeks of creditability.

Why not try an actual research paper or two:

http://aapgbull.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/
content/abstract/82/9/1694

here is an excerpt from the article

"About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island. The portion underwater is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico, with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil.

By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000 barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990, production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400 million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oil was quantifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s."

Ugh! Why do you people try and use Eugene Island as an example? Better question why do you lie about the numbers!?!

In 1989 Eugene Island was outputting 20kb a day, in 1992 it feel to 15kb, and then peaked to about 30kb in 1996. Since then the total output has been on the decline! Eugene Island is over it's peak and is declining.

The Island it self is under enormous seismic and geologic activity. Hell the whole place is just one big seduction zone. The initial surveys put the number of oil barrels at a low number because of all the seismic activity. It was thought that the oil had already escaped, been pushed down to far and been destroyed by the high temperature, or was simply to scattered in the rock to be harvestable. The temperature gradient wasn't as great as expected, primarily because of how fast the Eugene mountain range is sinking. It hasn't had time to warm up yet. Events like this aren't that uncommon, surveyors tend to underestimate the recoverable oil in a given area.

At 3/1/08 07:22 PM, Sp10x wrote:

At 3/1/08 07:07 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 3/1/08 07:02 PM, Sp10x wrote: it is renewable considering it is constantly being made

Fossil fuels are constantly being made, but not at a rate that'll do us any good.

ok did you read anything on how Oil is made? It isn't a FOSSIL FUEL seeing as it's not made from the remains of decomposed dinosaurs.

Have you ever read how oil is made? Do you even understand what actually goes on? Christ pick up a god damn geology book next time, rather then going to these shit hole "conservative" web sites. Maybe you'll actually learn something.

The amount of oil that we know about would take ridiculous amounts of dinosaurs to produce.

Most oil was produced from marine life, and primarily consist of algae, with very little coming from animal life.

We are finding that there is oil VERY deep in the earth

No we aren't. Most oil (read 98% or more) is found between 7,500 feet and 15,000 feet. What little is found beyond that has always corresponded to large subducion areas.

Methane is a common molecule found in quantity throughout our solar system

Yes, and it's considered a primordial hydrocarbon for a reason. It's very easily produced under cold temperatures, and relatively static conditions. These don't exist inside the earth.

oil is a "renewable, primordial soup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures.

Bullshit, anything over 220*C will destroy oil and gas. It can't be produced down there.

As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs."

What the hell? Where are you getting this from? The biomarkers in oil come from photosynthetic plants and marine life. They aren't duplicated by any known Bactria strain. You have things like the C-12 to C-13 ratio which matches almost perfectly with photosynthetic plants, and is in complete disagreement with a chemosynthetic bacterial origin. In the cases of land formed oil you have things like Bicadinanes which only come from tree resins. Retene, and Cadalene from conifers. None of these biomarkers are found in an significant quanties below the earth, except in the cases of fossil fules.

basically METHANE + PRESSURE + HEAT + CENTRIFUGAL FORCE = OIL

WTF? No. First of the centrifugal force is negligible producing at most about a 1% deviation from applied gravimetric force, and that's at the equator! Any where else and it's far less. As for adding heat to methane, unless it's under several thousand atmospheres of pressure all your going to do it burn it up! And even if you are beyond a few thousand atmospheres of pressure all your going to produce is graphite, and diamond. Not oil!

At 3/1/08 07:25 PM, Sp10x wrote: It's not that drastic a jump as you may think.

Yes it is!

the theory is that the methane, under extreme heat and pressure deep in the earth, creates oil. then, via centrifugal force, the oil makes its way to the surface.

Which is complete bullshit, and unsubstantiated.

as to the appearance of methane on titan. That just shows that methane doesn't have to come from rotting dinos.

Your right in theory if the conditions are right it doesn't. Problem is the conditions aren't right any where on the plant for this to occur (at lest not in any measurable quantities).

[EndGameOmega]

At 3/1/08 06:08 PM, Kyle101 wrote: New oil deep in the ground comes up, doesnt mean its not a fossil fuel, or thousands of animals died there and the pressure finally liquidfied them, retard.

The lowest a fossil has ever been found is 16,000 feet. Most modern wells are dug at 30,000.

No they aren't, and I defy you to present a single location, which is not in a subduction zone.

And since oil is lighter than water it would have a hard time getting pulled through rock.

Um, no. Oil is only lighter after it's been formed, before that it's about as dense as any kind of organically formed shale.

:Also Russia has been drilling for oil using the abiotic model for years and they've surpassed Saudi Arabia as an oil provider.

No they haven't. What few wells that have been dug using abiogenic theories have come up pretty much dry. Most of the oil that Russia produces was found using out side geologic agencies, like Exxon.

[JudgeDredd]

At 3/1/08 07:22 PM, Sp10x wrote: It isn't a FOSSIL FUEL seeing as it's not made from the remains of decomposed dinosaurs.

Neither is coal. But it's still called fossil fuel. It's a generic term.

The amount of oil that we know about would take ridiculous amounts of dinosaurs to produce.

Listen, oil, as it exists today is not made of dinosaur fossils at all (at least, not the land based ones).

The layers that contain oil were layed down in the world's oceans, not on land. Dinosaurs that die on land get eaten by microbs and other insects and animals right down to the bone, which turn to dust, except the rare case of being swallowed in a marshy swamp, or even rarer case of being buried in landslide etc, and creating actual fossils, which is a petrification process (ie. turning organic material into stone, etc).

The reason oil is made in the oceans is because the dead matter (mainly brine, krill, plankton, and other microsopic species, but including larger fish, and the odd Mosasaur - which for what it's worth, are not actually dinosaurs, but marine reptiles {confused yet?!} ) ..all dead matter falls to the bottom of the ocean where lack of light and oxygen keep it from decaying in fast order, or being eaten by other spieces. Over millions of years this accumulation gets buried and so on and so forth..

PRESSURE + VAST AMOUNTS OF TIME = OIL

teh edn.

[SadisticMonkey]

Jesus. nothing worth making a sig over.

[evilXbanana]

Oil is made from carbon based matter that includes but is NOT exclusive to live tissues. Thats why there are hydro-carbons on Mars. The whole plants and dinosaurs thing is just there to help kids understand that oil doesn't just appear in random spots of dirt. Organic chemistry ftw.

[Sp10x]

I don't see why this is so hard to believe.

i mean come on, im sure more than half of you believe in man made global warming. a THEORY with less evidence to support itself than this.

[Sp10x]

At 3/2/08 03:49 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Jesus. nothing worth making a sig over.

i made a sig about it because its the only thread i have running... it bothers you that much?

[Sp10x]

for Christs sake omega.

your refuting almost everything posted in this thread that supports this theory. you add little snip bits say "oh thats crap" but give little to no evidence supporting yourself.

it just seems like you don't want to or cant accept the fact that oil is renewable. why not, isn't that a good thing?

[Gunter45]

At 3/2/08 04:39 AM, Sp10x wrote: your refuting almost everything posted in this thread that supports this theory. you add little snip bits say "oh thats crap" but give little to no evidence supporting yourself.

At 3/1/08 11:16 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: No they haven't. What few wells that have been dug using abiogenic theories have come up pretty much dry. Most of the oil that Russia produces was found using out side geologic agencies, like Exxon.

This was pretty easy to verify, actually. He seems to have far more evidence on his side than you do. In fact, it looks like your claim that Russia is somehow experiencing an oil boon was 100% false, and that was with less than a minute of fact checking.

it just seems like you don't want to or cant accept the fact that oil is renewable. why not, isn't that a good thing?

How about you do a little more research on your "facts." I disproved one without even breaking a sweat. Besides, it would be wonderful if oil was renewable. It would also be wonderful if you could wish cancer away, but the fact of the matter is that belief in things like that can actually hurt people. Looking for abiotic sources of oil would cost billions of dollars for little to no payoff and, what's more, send resources away for doing actual tried-and-true research. It would be a good thing. However, belief in fantasy, especially when you're talking about nations, is incredibly detrimental.

[Sp10x]

what makes your sources any more valid than mine?

[ABsoldier17]

At 3/1/08 11:16 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

At 3/1/08 06:08 PM, Kyle101 wrote: New oil deep in the ground comes up, doesnt mean its not a fossil fuel, or thousands of animals died there and the pressure finally liquidfied them, retard.

The lowest a fossil has ever been found is 16,000 feet. Most modern wells are dug at 30,000.

No they aren't, and I defy you to present a single location, which is not in a subduction zone.

Link at the bottom

Also Russia has been drilling for oil using the abiotic model for years and they've surpassed Saudi Arabia as an oil provider.

No they haven't. What few wells that have been dug using abiogenic theories have come up pretty much dry. Most of the oil that Russia produces was found using out side geologic agencies, like Exxon.

And I would love to see where you got that from, otherwise I'll think you made it up.

link

[AdamRice]

At 3/2/08 05:04 AM, Sp10x wrote: what makes your sources any more valid than mine?

Sp10x vs. endgameomega
17 year old high school student vs 23 year old physics grad student

I wonder which person is more proficient at doing research, is more educated, and ultimately more credible.

[ABsoldier17]

At 3/1/08 07:07 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 3/1/08 07:02 PM, Sp10x wrote: it is renewable considering it is constantly being made

Fossil fuels are constantly being made, but not at a rate that'll do us any good.

Eugene Island 330

[Al6200]

At 3/2/08 08:35 AM, AdamRice wrote:

At 3/2/08 05:04 AM, Sp10x wrote: what makes your sources any more valid than mine?

Sp10x vs. endgameomega
17 year old high school student vs 23 year old physics grad student

I wonder which person is more proficient at doing research, is more educated, and ultimately more :credible.

I agree, but let's remember that we should judge arguements on their validity, not on appeals to the authority of those who proposed them.

(But endgameomega is pwning anyway)