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Yes, I believe that there probably are aliens.

We can't prove that they exist but the chances of them existing is very high. I wish we'd some day meet some. :|

At 2/2/08 04:42 AM, poxpower wrote:

Um, what if they reached us a long time ago, and visit us frequently all the time and have never stopped?

What if I'm one?

I wouldn't be surprised. And I'd ask you to come pick me up in your spaceship.

Other than that, you're hopeless pox. I still don't understand your reasoning in the rest of the argument, but I don't care anymore.

So blah.

Also:

highly relevant

At 2/1/08 11:59 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: But for fuck sakes, WE'VE ALREADY TELEPORTED MATTER.

It's perfect.
It's unbelievable.
It's a miracle.
It's a TV dinner.
It's Wonkavision.
It could change the world.

I can say easily that I don't believe in the "super-advanced space ships exploring the universe and for whatever reason keep visiting Earth" alien, but I totally believe [and, to a degree, expect] that there's life out there somewhere.

At 1/31/08 08:03 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 1/31/08 07:47 PM, Brick-top wrote:

I'm not sure about the 5000 alien sightings.

They're all bullshit.

Not true... And the number is way too low. Fourteen percent of Americans claim to have seen a UFO. Many people do not discuss what they see for fear of ridicule. And to say that intergalactic travel is impossible is not fair either. 100 years ago it was impossible to break the speed of sound. Today it is common place. We really cant comprehend technology that we do not have.

At 1/31/08 08:08 PM, PubicTears wrote: I beleive there are millions of life forms all over the universe, but I highly doubt any have come to Earth.

I agree with this on so many levels.
It also ties into religions though.
I believe in God but not the way others do. I believe God created us, but God also created other life forms. But then again how do we know God him/herself has a God?

At 2/4/08 01:27 PM, Euroc wrote:

At 1/31/08 08:03 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 1/31/08 07:47 PM, Brick-top wrote:

I'm not sure about the 5000 alien sightings.

They're all bullshit.

Not true... And the number is way too low. Fourteen percent of Americans claim to have seen a UFO.

And that means a little less then nothing.

Many people do not discuss what they see for fear of ridicule.

Funny, I hear about it damn near every day.

And to say that intergalactic travel is impossible is not fair either.

Yes it is. SR forbid FTL travel, and GR forbids FTL communication. It's literally against all of known physics to go beyond c.

100 years ago it was impossible to break the speed of sound. Today it is common place.

The sound barrier is on a fundamental level very different from the light speed barrier.

We really cant comprehend technology that we do not have.

No, but we can comprehend the boundaries in which it much work, and those boundaries end at c.

At 2/2/08 05:02 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote: To be totally honest I think it's more likely that UFOs come out of the ocean than the sky.

Those aren't UFOs, they are USOs.

Yup.

I know, I'm Catholic and all, but the Universe is simply way to damned big for us to be the ONLY sentient folks in it (let alone the only life-forms).

Does God love those other mortal beings, across the stars, as He loves us? Was Jesus involved?

I personally chalk THOSE questions up to the Mystery that is Life. We'll probably get the full picture when it pretty much doesn't even matter quite so much anymore, which is in the Afterlife. In THAT case, we'll either be a titch too busy basking in eternal bliss, or roasting our tushes off to the point at which we simply won't give a damn about Aliens and shit.

At 2/2/08 05:17 PM, Christopherr wrote: You see, I don't think we should care about aliens. We've already concluded that our universe is impossibly large and that there are no signs of intelligent life within range of our equipment, so if we did find the technology to travel at warp speeds everywhere, we'd probably never find any aliens.

The thing I think about this is that the Universe since the Big Bang has been expanding outwards from the center. The Universe is estimated to be what, 13 Billion years while the Earth is estimated to be 4-6 Billion years old? This means that another intelligent civilization could have a couple of Million years head start on us.

So, while we may not have the technology to see them that does not mean they do not have the technology to see us. Furthermore, what if they know of us and has watched us and do not think we're important/relevant/threatening?

So...

Yes I believe they exist (the universe is too large for them NOT to) and I think it is possible that they could visit us.

Einstein once said:
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I know I cannot experience aliens, but just pondering their existence is on interesting mental exercise.

At 2/4/08 04:13 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

And to say that intergalactic travel is impossible is not fair either.

Yes it is. SR forbid FTL travel, and GR forbids FTL communication. It's literally against all of known physics to go beyond c.

The History Channel will be airing a show in the following weeks (The Universe I believe) talking about extra-Galactic travel. In their teaser they are talking about folding space/time to get past the Relativity obstacle. If a civilization has 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 or 1,000,000,000 million year head start on us don't you think it's a little arrogant to say intergalactic travel is impossible based upon our primitive, monkey experience?

At 2/5/08 10:22 PM, TheMason wrote:

Einstein once said:
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

Einstein was also Jewish...
so.. maybe.. you know..

At 2/5/08 10:28 PM, TheMason wrote:

At 2/4/08 04:13 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

And to say that intergalactic travel is impossible is not fair either.

Yes it is. SR forbid FTL travel, and GR forbids FTL communication. It's literally against all of known physics to go beyond c.

The History Channel will be airing a show in the following weeks (The Universe I believe) talking about extra-Galactic travel. In their teaser they are talking about folding space/time to get past the Relativity obstacle. If a civilization has 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 or 1,000,000,000 million year head start on us don't you think it's a little arrogant to say intergalactic travel is impossible based upon our primitive, monkey experience?

Not really, no. If the problem was one on engineering, then yes it would be short sited and arrogant. The thing is it's not a problem of engineering, but of physics.

There are four fundamental forces in the universe Gravity, electro, strong, and weak. These four forces are what make up everything we see and understand. They all propagate at c. In order to send information along some distance you need some kind of carrier. This carrier would have to interact with one of these four forces, hence limiting there speed to at best c.

In order to go faster then c we'd have to discover some new force, something that propagates at a speed greater then c. So far we've yet to find any, and if we did it would mean the our understanding of the four forces is fundamentally wrong as they literally fall apart if something can be accelerated beyond c.

At 2/5/08 11:54 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: Not really, no. If the problem was one on engineering, then yes it would be short sited and arrogant. The thing is it's not a problem of engineering, but of physics.

... So far we've yet to find any, and if we did it would mean the our understanding of the four forces is fundamentally wrong as they literally fall apart if something can be accelerated beyond c.

And yet you're still being arrogant; what reason do you have to believe that our understanding of physics isn't fundamentally wrong? We thought we had a pretty good grasp on these four forces with Newton but then Einsteing came along in 1905 and put Newton on his head. Furthermore, we do not understand why the four fundamental forces behave differently at the subatomic level than they do with larger particles. That's why string theory is so interesting.

In short, if we did have a complete understanding of these forces then it would be reasonable to say something is impossible. But based upon our limited understanding of these forces it is arrogant to claim something is impossible for an infinitely more advanced civilization.

And then what about other technologies such as wormholes and other manipulations of space/time that we cannot even begin to think is possible?

Furthermore, imagine an alien civilization has a significant lead on us like say 500,000+ years and their planet is no longer inhabitable so they are space bound now?

1) We would not be able to detect it.
2) They would not necessarily have to travel faster than the speed of light.

But one other side not; many scientists did think it was theoretically impossible to go faster than the speed of sound...until we did it.

At 2/6/08 12:13 AM, TheMason wrote:

At 2/5/08 11:54 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: Not really, no. If the problem was one on engineering, then yes it would be short sited and arrogant. The thing is it's not a problem of engineering, but of physics.

... So far we've yet to find any, and if we did it would mean the our understanding of the four forces is fundamentally wrong as they literally fall apart if something can be accelerated beyond c.

And yet you're still being arrogant; what reason do you have to believe that our understanding of physics isn't fundamentally wrong? We thought we had a pretty good grasp on these four forces with Newton but then Einsteing came along in 1905 and put Newton on his head.

Ok, not really. One, It was already know that Newton was "wrong" by the mid 19th century, and a good 50 years before Einstein was born. Two, Einstein unified several different observations and effects that had been noticed over the course of a few hundred years. Hell, he basically derived the whole theories while studding Maxwell's electrodynamics equations; Which are them self invariant under SR. He really didn't do anything "new", at lest not to the level most people think he did.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Einstein or his achievements, but when it comes down to it people had already worked with and considered such possibilities. Just no one managed to come up with the theory for it.

Also, we didn't know about the strong and weak forces until the mid 20'sish.

Furthermore, we do not understand why the four fundamental forces behave differently at the subatomic level than they do with larger particles.

Err... Yes we do. The strong and weak forces only work on the subatomic level, the strong force drops off to quick to be notice beyond 1 angstrom, and the weak force well below that. The only place these to forces work is on the subatomic scale.

As for the electro force, our theories of it are pretty much complete. We know close to all there is to know in the energized regions between ~.01 eV, up to 400 GeV. Hell, we've even unified these three forces into the electroweak, and electroweak-strong, theories. What we haven't managed to do yet is combine the electroweak-strong with gravity to great a unified field theories. The main problem is when gravity is introduce the theory isn't renormalizable(basically you can't say just how much of anything is one place compared to another, making the theory worthless and suggesting it's incomplete; wiki article if your interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renormaliza tion).

That's why string theory is so interesting.

In short, if we did have a complete understanding of these forces then it would be reasonable to say something is impossible. But based upon our limited understanding of these forces it is arrogant to claim something is impossible for an infinitely more advanced civilization.

And then what about other technologies such as wormholes and other manipulations of space/time that we cannot even begin to think is possible?

Wormholes and space time manipulation all requires one thing in common, exotic matter, which doesn't exist. Quick explanation: exotic matter is matter that has a negative gravitational potential, i.e.

Furthermore, imagine an alien civilization has a significant lead on us like say 500,000+ years and their planet is no longer inhabitable so they are space bound now?

Using sub c travel, yes this is very possible, and I can not argue against it. What I argue against is that we've ever made contact with alien life primarily because FTL is in all likelihood impossible.

I should mention that just cause there's good reason to believe its impossible doesn't mean we shouldn't continually test for it. Such tests are useful in test just how correct our theories are.

1) We would not be able to detect it.
2) They would not necessarily have to travel faster than the speed of light.

I agree with both of these points.

But one other side not; many scientists did think it was theoretically impossible to go faster than the speed of sound...until we did it.

No they didn't. Very few scientists protest such a view, and the very, very few that did clamed it was an engineering problem, not a physical one. When you look at the facts any scientist who held such a view was a fool, not because we ended up breaking the sound barrier, but because it had already been broken; many thousands of years ago right after the whip was developed.

At 2/6/08 01:11 AM, EndGameOmega wrote:
Wormholes and space time manipulation all requires one thing in common, exotic matter, which doesn't exist. Quick explanation: exotic matter is matter that has a negative gravitational potential, i.e.

Woops, forgot to finish this:

Wormholes and space time manipulation all requires one thing in common, exotic matter, which doesn't exist. Quick explanation: exotic matter is matter that has a negative gravitational potential, i.e. a substance which is replied by gravity. If this stuff actually existed then our current particle theories would turn to mush; As super heavy particles, shouldn't be able to exist. Long explanation, but effectively the repulsive forces of exotic matter would keep them from coalescing.

EndGameOmega, you rule.

Thanks also for knocking Einstein down a peg. He's just used over and over by people ( like me for instance ) who have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to physics to tout how much of an insane genius he was.
When in truth, no man is or ever was as fantastically intelligent as he is said to be. People love to act like if Einstein hadn't existed, no one could have ever figured out what he discovered. But come on.

Also no one's giving any props to my main man, Glork, for inventing the wheel, or Urgaut for his brilliant advancements in the field of clubs.

The size of the universe is so big and we are only a tiny part of it, there obvioulsy has to be something out there. Although, if there is, it's way too far away to ever come in contact with.

It's just one of those things that we'll never know for sure.

Hell there may there may not thats someones opinion and my opinion is there is...i mean the stuff that has been shown in the media is mainly Bull......but some stuff can not really be explained so yea maybe there is.

At 2/6/08 01:11 AM, EndGameOmega wrote:

But based upon our limited understanding of these forces it is arrogant to claim something is impossible for an infinitely more advanced civilization.

;
which is the best reason to keep trying & keeping our best people financed to atempt to move forward.

Using sub c travel, yes this is very possible, and I can not argue against it. What I argue against is that we've ever made contact with alien life primarily because FTL is in all likelihood impossible.

;
The other reason , or there are a bunch of other reasons we haven't been contacted... is because of their superior intelligence, they don't want a group of vicious, murderous bipeds roaming the galaxies blowing up everything that we don't understand, don't like & doesn't go along with our primitive religious views.

That is probably the real reason we haven't been contacted !
Look around this mud ball, would you try & contact anyone in this insane asylum?

People who smoke marijuana tend to see aliens.

well DUUUUH. nobody can ever convince me that earth is the only place in the entire universe where you can find intellegent life. people really dont think about how endless space really is. obviously there are aliens. i mean come on seriously.

You know something occured to me when I was watching UFO hunters last night, what if these are not exterrestial vehicles, but are actually based right here on earth, like USOs have underwater bases. They could be an advance race of humans or something that have livied here for a long time but for some reason stay in hideing.

Could be.