Be a Supporter!

Art Forum Lounge

  • 555,065 Views
  • 17,439 Replies
New Topic Respond to this Topic
J-qb
J-qb
  • Member since: Mar. 6, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 14
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 08:58:33 Reply

Hey poeple, I've been absent here, how've you all been? I've been busy with school and stuff, just popped in here cause this is where poeple provide services for free: would any of you guys be able to translate a flyer for me from japanese? I'm going to Tokyo for two months for study but I only have japanese information about my accomodation...


NEVER LOOSE FAITH IN MANCUNT

BBS Signature
OsatoUchiha
OsatoUchiha
  • Member since: May. 28, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Animator
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 09:27:07 Reply

Yeah I'm new here so I wanted to ask something important, I want to submit a "gif" image file, you know an animated image, but I can't get the full image to be submited, I always have to cut it. Anybody know a solution?

Down below is the gif I made.

Art Forum Lounge

bigjonny13
bigjonny13
  • Member since: Jul. 7, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 52
Voice Actor
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 09:29:00 Reply

At 11/27/12 08:58 AM, J-qb wrote: Hey poeple, I've been absent here, how've you all been? I've been busy with school and stuff, just popped in here cause this is where poeple provide services for free: would any of you guys be able to translate a flyer for me from japanese? I'm going to Tokyo for two months for study but I only have japanese information about my accomodation...

Let's see what I can do for you......
"1 floor, 2 bedroom apartment, 1 washroom, kitchen, 3 hookers and a smelly old man"

TurkeyOnAStick
TurkeyOnAStick
  • Member since: Aug. 8, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 25
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 09:39:09 Reply

At 11/27/12 08:20 AM, Celx-Requin wrote: It's not insulting because it's true, at the same time art is a skill, and an artist has every right to want to be paid for their services, but the individual in question is an artist, and produces music for the hell of it, so I can empathize with him because he's not a hypocrite.

People keep bringing up the fact that the guy is an artist, and because he's a creator and prepared to give away his stuff that his opinion is somehow correct.

My problem with this is that it's not the same situation. When people offer up their music for free, it's because they've already made it and are willing to distribute it. If they had to create music to a particular specification, it would be a different story.

It's like the difference between buying a house from an estate agent, compared to asking an architect to design one from scratch.

Also being prepared to do everything for free does not make you some kind of artistic saint.


BBS Signature
Template88
Template88
  • Member since: Mar. 4, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 04
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 16:59:51 Reply

I for one have a small primal urge to tell everyone looking for handouts to fuck off. Everytime.
Just because a person draws their own personal stuff and gets nothing for it does not mean that they want to draw YOUR personal stuff for nothing in return. This is a common feeling amongst nonartists, this sense of drawings not being worth anything and a general ignorance of how much time/effort goes into something. They think art just comes out of Artland instantly and whenever they desire it just how they imagined it in their fevered little heads. I can only imagine their thought process like "well they are going to draw anyways, they may as well draw what -I- want and be happy about somebody even asking for them to make anything at all"

all the hate in the world


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

BBS Signature
Template88
Template88
  • Member since: Mar. 4, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 04
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 17:08:54 Reply

oh and (sorry for the double post) just to be clear I don't even need money in exchange for services, something, anything, as a small token of the appreciation of the time invested is better than "exposure" . When I make request threads on 4chan I require the requester to post a reference picture as a small gesture that to get something they need to give me something in return. I genuinely appreciate the time that they've saved me looking for a decent reference and its a small show of respect that make me feel ok drawing princess peach being teabagged by Abraham Lincoln.


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

BBS Signature
ornery
ornery
  • Member since: Feb. 12, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 55
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 17:27:40 Reply

Im going to put out a scenario that I want you all to think about, it relates to this requests issue and I feel is a nicer alternative to me telling you all that you're all being a bunch of asshats.

A programer comes in the forum and posts a thread. He says he wants to make a game, and he wants an artist to collaborate with. He chose NG because he likes the people and content and its a great place for an indie artist/musician/animator to get started. He picked the art forum for his want-ad because well, he wants an artist, and that is theoretically where artists on this site hang out.

He is offering no money, he isn't going to put up API ads either because he wants users to get straight to the game. He will go 50/50 with any ad revenue that does get generated, but he makes no promises as to the game making any sort of money.

The game idea is pretty original, and it seems like a fun project.

Do you accept his offer and help him out?

Oh and its the year 2004, and the user is this guy

Think about it, long and hard. Granted 99% of requests are stupid, but think about the fluke writer or programer who could be the next big thing that you dont know much about. Could you be killing the next big thing, or sending it elsewhere with your needless hostility? Not everything here needs to be about getting paid, what ever happened to doing something because you wanted to, because of NG user solidarity. I know its a bit insulting for someone to come in and request something that they can and should pay for that will require hours of work and possibly generate cash for them. But is it really necessary to shoot down a 14yo kid who just wants to see a character they thought up of (or shamelessly ripped off of 4 different exsisting chars) brought to life? Think of it like a CHOW, with very specific guidelines. And if you dont like it, then ignore the request, no one is forcing you to do it.

Lintire
Lintire
  • Member since: Aug. 21, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 21
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 17:31:48 Reply

At 11/27/12 04:59 PM, Template88 wrote: I for one have a small primal urge to tell everyone looking for handouts to fuck off. Everytime.

Eh, I figure if they're being honest about it, and don't expect much any quality in return, then they can try their luck all they damn well please. It's the ones who feel entitled to your fucking time that piss everyone off.

Even then, they're not doing any harm because the easiest way to approach the situation is to simply not do it. You know that they can't make you draw anything, right? You can easily just play checkers or something and ignore the thread completely.

all the hate in the world

Yeah okay, I'm all for hate. I should make that clear. Fuck everyone. But also use some damn reason.

People have no context for how this shite pisses artists off. They haven't been "dealing" with people asking them to spend hours of their time illustrating someone else's whims. Far as they're concerned, they're not doing anything wrong, in fact they're being quite reasonable. Every time some looks for a freebie and promises some shit like exposure in return, they're not being the slightest bit malevolent.

So motherfuckers like you or anyone else in this forum, getting pissy at someone for doing that, you may as well be yelling at some kid for liking Jar Jar Binks. They don't have the slightest clue as to what they're doing is wrong, and in return all you're doing is souring their experience in dealing with artists completely. This is not some new trend, people have been dealing with artists the same way since forever. It literally takes a fraction of the time, although ten times the tact, to explain that promising exposure, or some form of spec work, is looked down in the artist community immensely and causes no fuss whatsover.

When you let your fatigue in dealing with the same shit override common sense, you're making us all look like assholes, is what I'm saying.

Template88
Template88
  • Member since: Mar. 4, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 04
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 17:54:07 Reply

I agree that not all of them deserve the hostility they get and that some, maybe even most of them dont understand why their offer of exposure is basically the great satan of rewards for working for them... but I don't care. They need to learn fast why that shit is blasted down. If they really want something done getting called out in a thread on newgrounds isn't going to phase them, they'll keep trying and get the work done one way or another at a later time or through better means than begging for it. I would personally consider collaboration with anyone that had something to offer the project and a shared and committed interest in getting it done. Not just DO MY PROJECT FOR ME WHILE I SIT ON MY ASS AND ILL GIVE YOU SWEET CRED. I really don't ask for a lot.


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

BBS Signature
Lintire
Lintire
  • Member since: Aug. 21, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 21
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 18:20:46 Reply

At 11/27/12 05:54 PM, Template88 wrote: They need to learn fast why that shit is blasted down.

Why? It's a point that's been made twice that they can't make you do anything. They can't. It's a literal impossibility given the average set of parameters. They can learn at their own pace, and it won't affect anything.

If they really want something done getting called out in a thread on newgrounds isn't going to phase them, they'll keep trying and get the work done one way or another at a later time or through better means than begging for it.

Same thing would happen if you let them know that what they're doing is spec work and looked down on. How exactly else are they going to respond? If they rebuke the tips, then that was going to happen anyway, and if the idea is good enough it might actually attract an artist or two willing to lend a hand. The idea is that they want you to work with them, not for them, because if it weren't you can be sure that no-one worth their salt is going to pay any attention.

Bitching at people in their own threads just kills open collaborative ideas and pisses people off.

I would personally consider collaboration with anyone that had something to offer the project and a shared and committed interest in getting it done. Not just DO MY PROJECT FOR ME WHILE I SIT ON MY ASS AND ILL GIVE YOU SWEET CRED.

Again, you can just ignore them if you're not interested, or if their offering is particularly bad just nudge them in the right direction (using and explaining terminology for spec work, that kind of thing). Requests for a free single drawing or logo especially don't warrant getting angry at them, because I'll be fucked sideways before I see anyone who requests free work expect quality.

I really don't ask for a lot.

You don't ask for anything. You just expect them to follow an unwritten set of rules and tell them to go fuck themselves if they don't.

Template88
Template88
  • Member since: Mar. 4, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 04
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 18:49:09 Reply

At 11/27/12 06:20 PM, Lintire wrote:
At 11/27/12 05:54 PM, Template88 wrote: They need to learn fast why that shit is blasted down.
Why? It's a point that's been made twice that they can't make you do anything. They can't. It's a literal impossibility given the average set of parameters. They can learn at their own pace, and it won't affect anything.
If they really want something done getting called out in a thread on newgrounds isn't going to phase them, they'll keep trying and get the work done one way or another at a later time or through better means than begging for it.
Same thing would happen if you let them know that what they're doing is spec work and looked down on. How exactly else are they going to respond? If they rebuke the tips, then that was going to happen anyway, and if the idea is good enough it might actually attract an artist or two willing to lend a hand. The idea is that they want you to work with them, not for them, because if it weren't you can be sure that no-one worth their salt is going to pay any attention.

Bitching at people in their own threads just kills open collaborative ideas and pisses people off.

I would personally consider collaboration with anyone that had something to offer the project and a shared and committed interest in getting it done. Not just DO MY PROJECT FOR ME WHILE I SIT ON MY ASS AND ILL GIVE YOU SWEET CRED.
Again, you can just ignore them if you're not interested, or if their offering is particularly bad just nudge them in the right direction (using and explaining terminology for spec work, that kind of thing). Requests for a free single drawing or logo especially don't warrant getting angry at them, because I'll be fucked sideways before I see anyone who requests free work expect quality.

I really don't ask for a lot.
You don't ask for anything. You just expect them to follow an unwritten set of rules and tell them to go fuck themselves if they don't.

1. They need to learn that fast so they stop doing it. Speeding up their process of learning that asking for something for nothing is a bad idea helps them out in the end. Aren't I just the nicest? The fact that I can ignore them or simply not do the request is moot. If i'm replying obviously I care enough to tell them that their offer sucks and they should make a better one.

2/3. You are working for somebody else if the other party isn't actively doing anything to help you with the project. They just have something they want drawn for some purpose that doesn't include you other than making resources and giving you credit. Which is alot of these freebies, the other ones are usually just writers\people with ideas which is something else entirely. Collaboration needs to have all parties interested and working for the same goal.

4. Thats the thing though, they DO expect quality. Have you ever worked for a party for free that you end up making something for and they want you to keep tweaking it? I have and i've seen it here too.

5. I never literally tell them to fuck themselves but I do explain to them that they are essentially offering nothing for work that takes a significant amount of time/effort to make. I do ask them for something. A tiny token of understanding that art doesnt come from the art fairy and that time is worth something to everyone so even the smallest measure of understanding/respect will allow me to work for them.

If somebody pitched me an idea that i liked and told me "i cant pay you now but maybe later on I'll be able to scrounge money up for you" even if it was a lie I would still be far more likely to do it than for exposure. Or say "i cant pay you but I ve already got the script written out and ill cut you in on anything that comes my way as far as money/ad revenue goes." just something. anything. Its not an archaic unwritten rule or something unreasonable its just common sense.


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

BBS Signature
Kinsei
Kinsei
  • Member since: Sep. 9, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 41
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 19:51:55 Reply

meh... conversation got a but too wordy for me....
but I did catch something about Ol' Honest Abe tea-baggin a certain plumber's peach.
Now that would be something fin to see.


Whiskey | The Old | The New | Portal | updated sig thanks to gumby

BBS Signature
Daverom
Daverom
  • Member since: Mar. 11, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 15
Melancholy
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 19:56:01 Reply

It's incredibly easy to do all of the things you're listing without being a gigantic ass about it.
You can't expect people to know everything, especially considering the majority of people coming in here for requests are kids with no scratch, and people who just want to do a project and seeing if there's any mutual interest.

Yelling toxic bullshit from your high horse is only going to make you and the community look like assholes, the person looking for freebies ain't gonna retain any shit they had thrown at them, they're just gonna go somewhere else and ask there.

Otto
Otto
  • Member since: Mar. 31, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 11
Animator
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 20:14:45 Reply

Ornery that explained it excellently.


This is a song about cum on hotel walls.

BBS Signature
OsatoUchiha
OsatoUchiha
  • Member since: May. 28, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Animator
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 21:04:26 Reply

O.K. maybe I chose the wrong words in my previous question, I want dont want do post a gif, I want to submit a gof to the art gallery, but I cant, i always have to make it smaller, any help?

Again, this is the gif i made.

Art Forum Lounge

Absinthe
Absinthe
  • Member since: Aug. 13, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 14
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 21:10:07 Reply

At 11/27/12 08:14 PM, Otto wrote: Ornery that explained it excellently.

Pretty much, do things out of the kindness of your heart to help someone out, or not.

I mean if they're going to be dicks in the original post than it can be pretty funny to derail, but if it's someone who doesn't know how to pay and has a simple idea then just do it (I mean I think that's usually the case, I don't even no how to transfer funds electronically yet myself. Isn't it through paypal accounts?)


3DS FC: 4442-0200-7535
So yeah follow this neat little do-dad to get a free trip to my Art Thread. I also endorse Retsupurae on my own volition

BBS Signature
bigjonny13
bigjonny13
  • Member since: Jul. 7, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 52
Voice Actor
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 21:47:19 Reply

If they're not being a dick about it, don't be a dick to them.

At 11/27/12 09:04 PM, OsatoUchiha wrote: Again, this is the gif i made.

Gif's are perfectly acceptable in the art portal, as long as it's not massive, it probably doesn't need to be resized.

TurkeyOnAStick
TurkeyOnAStick
  • Member since: Aug. 8, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 25
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 21:55:08 Reply

At 11/27/12 09:10 PM, Absinthe wrote:
At 11/27/12 08:14 PM, Otto wrote: Ornery that explained it excellently.
Pretty much, do things out of the kindness of your heart to help someone out, or not.

No. No no no no no.
If somebody's doing something wrong, or their request is absurd, then they should be told that it's daft. Otherwise they'll keep making the same mistakes.
Also the sad fact is that if you act out of the kindness of your heart, then people will keep on taking advantage of your generosity.

I do agree with Vero that responding with an acidic response will make you and the community look like shits, and they'll just piss off and ask elsewhere.


BBS Signature
Lucky
Lucky
  • Member since: Nov. 13, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 08
Animator
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 22:32:46 Reply

this new ng background is amaaaaaaazing

Carrion
Carrion
  • Member since: Apr. 16, 2011
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 22:33:04 Reply

I'm with Orn on this one. How in the world did all of you fall under the assumption that doing something for exposure is worth less than commission. Really? You are all surely users of not only the internet but more importantly Newgrounds. You should all know what can come from a playful venture paid or unpaid. Do you think little Tom was being paid by someone to make Pico? Where the fuck is the humble merit of independence that places like this are suppose to be renowned for?

In my opinion substantial exposure is worth ten times more than the few petty dollars you are going to receive from drawing some kid's Sonic "OP". I met good old Koroboy because he drew shit for me. FOR FREE! And to be blunt that guy can carry more weight with markers and paper than half of the people here can handle with photoshop or illustrator. I was a fan of his comic long before he came along and offered a gesture as humble as drawing some dumb character he found interesting.

And by all means, you don't have to be the mother fucking santa of art. If the proposal looks unappetizing to you then just stay the away and keep your mouth shut. Unless any rules are directly being broken or the user is being an utter cunt about their request. Even in that case then let the thread wither and die rather than bumping it up with your smart remarks. If it escalates past that then contact a mod, it's easy. And by god if you are going to be an elitist dick at least be tasteful about it.

It's so difficult doing a chore as easy as typing out text and making it look pretty, but when the occasion comes to troll hiryuGouki's Pokemon thread everyone is in the spirit to draw stuff for free. So just..stop. Please? Not drawing perverted Pokemon of course, I mean stop being elitist dicks. Kay.


BBS Signature
Absinthe
Absinthe
  • Member since: Aug. 13, 2008
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 14
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 22:33:18 Reply

At 11/27/12 10:18 PM, Escalus wrote:
At 11/27/12 09:10 PM, Absinthe wrote:
Doesn't that mean they'll just come back for more?
That's like giving a hobo a dollar and he comes back for more money because he knows... HE KNOWS that you're a sucker and can take outright advantage of your kindness.

Things need to be addressed on a case by case basis. I'm an adult, I can make my own decisions on whom I help, and that should apply to all artists.


3DS FC: 4442-0200-7535
So yeah follow this neat little do-dad to get a free trip to my Art Thread. I also endorse Retsupurae on my own volition

BBS Signature
Kinsei
Kinsei
  • Member since: Sep. 9, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 41
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 23:05:29 Reply

man, this conversation is getting boring to lurk to.

not to mention kind of a downer the way a bunch of us are pulling the holier than thou routine.
oh lordy lordy, we should have been nice, woo!

The subject has be discussed, cussed and fussed over enough already.
Lets talk about something much more interesting. Like the new background.
At first it felt like it was done by two artist, but then I realized that Farturast made good use of his lighting and hangles and line work to give off a very different feel in the different parts of the piece.


Whiskey | The Old | The New | Portal | updated sig thanks to gumby

BBS Signature
Carrion
Carrion
  • Member since: Apr. 16, 2011
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 23:25:45 Reply

I can only see the top portion of the background because of the small screen space on my laptop, boohoo.
Anyone willing to roast up a print screen for the Captain?


BBS Signature
Kinsei
Kinsei
  • Member since: Sep. 9, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 41
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-27 23:33:52 Reply

At 11/27/12 11:25 PM, Captain-Carrion wrote: I can only see the top portion of the background because of the small screen space on my laptop, boohoo.
Anyone willing to roast up a print screen for the Captain?

Here ya go. its at least a good chunk of it. sadly I have to get some sleep or else I'd do a better job with it.


Whiskey | The Old | The New | Portal | updated sig thanks to gumby

BBS Signature
x-factor11
x-factor11
  • Member since: Mar. 24, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 11
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-28 00:29:36 Reply

hello everyone!

Carrion
Carrion
  • Member since: Apr. 16, 2011
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Blank Slate
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-28 00:55:32 Reply

At 11/28/12 12:29 AM, x-factor11 wrote: hello everyone!

Hello X-Factor!!!


BBS Signature
KaDoYuu
KaDoYuu
  • Member since: Mar. 4, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 30
Animator
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-28 01:08:48 Reply

Hi! What an interesting style you have!


"Trolls are people who long ago gave up the will to live worthwhile lives, and now dedicate themselves to tormenting others, in attempts to drag victims down to their level."

bigjonny13
bigjonny13
  • Member since: Jul. 7, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 52
Voice Actor
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-28 02:24:28 Reply

At 11/28/12 12:29 AM, x-factor11 wrote: hello everyone!

Stop leaving me man.
Every time you leave, a part of me dies :C

luckylime
luckylime
  • Member since: Aug. 6, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 07
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-28 03:07:36 Reply

At 11/27/12 11:05 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: At first it felt like it was done by two artist, but then I realized that Farturast made good use of his lighting and hangles and line work to give off a very different feel in the different parts of the piece.

Well you're right about that, but is that a good thing? To me the lack of balance on both sides is kinda distracting even though overall it's beautifully done.


My Art Thread --Art Tag: Luckylime Video Tag: TekaiGuy Gamertag: Luckytime!

BBS Signature
Aigis
Aigis
  • Member since: Jun. 18, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 09
Artist
Response to Art Forum Lounge 2012-11-28 04:48:24 Reply

At 11/27/12 05:27 PM, ornery wrote: A programer comes in the forum and posts a thread. He says he wants to make a game, and he wants an artist to collaborate with.

While I agree with the idea of not being hostile to anyone who asks for anything, and regret my part in messing with that thread, I don't think this is quite the same thing.

I don't think most people have a problem with the idea of collaboration, so much as a more one-sided "I want you to do something for me" sort of arrangement. Obviously not every artistic project has to be framed by an employer/employee relationship. Making an album cover for someone to better advertise their album, however, is not a collaboration.


Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

BBS Signature