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At 9/25/09 09:43 AM, LegolaSS wrote:
it doesnt matter how good your art is... if you havent got the english to back it up...

This is absolutely true. As an introverted person, I wasn't able to express verbally what my art was "about" and thus couldn't get into the art school of my choice. It's a sad thing when bullshitting about what art "means" is held in higher regard than a persons talent and skill at it.

Well, mostly its because so that you can learn how to sell your concept or 'Why my design is way better than the other guy.' something like that anyway.

I seen lots of very talented guys but the subject that they are assigned to create is often a miss.
These guys are more likely never to be art directors, just the guys that do the 'grunt' work.
Forever.

Let me give you an example of what some old classmates of mine did.
The class assignment was to make an ad usually seen in magazines, or at least a convincing one.
This group decided to make a beer ad.
And it did look like one of the prettist ads in our class except for a few things.

It was put in a teen mag. (Underage drinking...)
They used a certain popular Korean drama in the ad that the main audience would range from teen girls, young ladies to housewives...(Wrong sort of audience)
And they couldn't explain why in the world that they need to use this 'combination'...

And its not just advertisements that need solid ideas, movies, tv shows, comics/manga, websites...Yes even this website we are currently foruming on have good (can I say great?) solid ideas (EVERYTHING, BY EVERYONE) to bring people in.

Think its just pretty pictures?
Think again.

If you are so introverted that you know you're in trouble,
Then CHANGE. That's what I did. Read some books and take public speaking classes. DO SOMETHING!

Art classes have been around for a few hundreds of years, so they do know what the hell they are doing.

Of course, you don't have to listen to what I said and you can continue to whine only to find bitter experiences to chew and burn you out.

These is all I can muster up...
What I said is a mix of my experiences and other people.
Till next time or none at all.

At 9/25/09 03:10 PM, Emerald-Mara85 wrote: A LOT

A good 1/3 of my major is learning to sell your self. So that is nothing new.
And so far I have been taught two methods of describing my work. Elaborate or Straight foward, I prefer the Straight method, it suits me more

BTW congrats on first post, I think :P

At 9/25/09 01:39 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote:

At 9/25/09 09:43 AM, LegolaSS wrote:
it doesnt matter how good your art is... if you havent got the english to back it up...

This is absolutely true. As an introverted person, I wasn't able to express verbally what my art was "about" and thus couldn't get into the art school of my choice. It's a sad thing when bullshitting about what art "means" is held in higher regard than a persons talent and skill at it.

yea, its surprising how important the meaning to your work is..Makes sense thought, since people have been painting no more than black squares on a canvas..

yea, its surprising how important the meaning to your work is..Makes sense thought, since people have been painting no more than black squares on a canvas..

Would you believe that people think that's the peak of the art world? Once you start turning urinals upside down, you can't get any further.
wtf's wrong with people

Unrelated topic

Anatomy, how long did it take you to learn ?

Currently, I'm tracing some dragon ball z picture (only the body shape (total nerd fan :P)) but I was thinking about how awesome it would be if I knew better anatomy. :(

So how long did you spend learning it ?

mine still needs work, but not that long to get a basic understanding

At 9/25/09 03:10 PM, Emerald-Mara85 wrote:
If you are so introverted that you know you're in trouble,
Then CHANGE. That's what I did. Read some books and take public speaking classes. DO SOMETHING!

Haha, I've changed a lot since then. But I never wanted to learn to sell myself or my art, I was just interested in bettering my skill and improve my art in a aesthetic way, I'm not that interested in making a living with it, I just want to be able to do it the best I can.

But now I kind of like my identity as a self-taught outsider, it's never to late to learn more or go back to school, but what I did learn in the art school that I did attend (for a little while, at least) is that people have different priorities than I do when it comes to art and the art market.

guys, tracing stylized anatomy is NOT going to help you improve

look at real humans--finding naked models on the internet is definitely not hard

At 9/25/09 11:43 PM, EJR wrote:

Currently, I'm tracing some dragon ball z picture (only the body shape (total nerd fan :P)) but I was thinking about how awesome it would be if I knew better anatomy. :(

I started out learning how to draw "better" body structure by tracing over DragonBall Z pictures.
Amazingly, I'm still having quite a few problems with anatomy, now. It's been taking me some time (a LONG time), but eventually I'll get it.

Tracing doesn't do much to help learn anatomy, if you draw the skeleton underneath the drawing, that will help but something non anime would help even more.

At 9/25/09 10:08 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Haha, I've changed a lot since then. But I never wanted to learn to sell myself or my art, I was just interested in bettering my skill and improve my art in a aesthetic way, I'm not that interested in making a living with it, I just want to be able to do it the best I can.

But now I kind of like my identity as a self-taught outsider, it's never to late to learn more or go back to school, but what I did learn in the art school that I did attend (for a little while, at least) is that people have different priorities than I do when it comes to art and the art market.

That's cool,

On the anatomy,
Hmm I'm still learning...Its only like 1 or 2 years ago that characters I drew have that certain something, like its alive instead of a wooden block sort of way.

Hmmm, I only did serious anatomy (realistic portrayal) like 5 years back?
But the basics I use are probably like since...8-10 years back? Can't remember...(more manga style).
Don't use my years as a base on how long it will take to get there, you could be much faster especially when lots of 'things' were happening at once to me.

Is there such a thing where you really stop learning anatomy?
Hokusai said he was still learning when he was 73 years old and even at his deathbed at the age of 89...
Just because you get the basics, doesn't mean you get 'divine' artwork.

Tracing...
In my teens, I mostly copy manga but I didn't trace any of 'em so I learn something but not alot (the net wasn't so advanced back then as it is now) compared to realism.

Naked pics,
Man, I wish to get some of that but certain country policies might get me arrested...I can only get naked pics from approved art books.

Speaking of learning from teens,
Does the art classes from high school make you learn art seriously?

I only have crappy art classes that focuses on colors (mixing colors: blue plus red = purple), names of so-called the country's best artists (which none never did inspire me) and give themes every week without a single clue on how to draw people.
The most the art teachers would give are lessons where the light and shadows are without the 'what is form' talk. Its one of the worst times concerning art I have. Not to mention the most boring ever.

Lets just say art is never seen as prestigious in my country and it was more focused on getting a new generation of goverment workers.

I still suck at anatomy

At 9/26/09 01:52 AM, Emerald-Mara85 wrote: Does the art classes from high school make you learn art seriously?

In all honesty, I never really went into a art class to learn art, I just joined them so I could do art. Im kinda lazy outside of school, so it helps me get shit done..which eventually leads to improvement..

Uhh.. ReNaeNae just went on a furious locking spree.. All hail our glorious artamazone.. :D

At 9/26/09 07:44 PM, Lundsfryd wrote: Uhh.. ReNaeNae just went on a furious locking spree.. All hail our glorious artamazone.. :D

lol, gimmie more! I need more! :D

At 9/26/09 07:46 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:

At 9/26/09 07:44 PM, Lundsfryd wrote: Uhh.. ReNaeNae just went on a furious locking spree.. All hail our glorious artamazone.. :D

lol, gimmie more! I need more! :D

We're not worthy, we're not worthy

At 9/26/09 07:46 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:

At 9/26/09 07:44 PM, Lundsfryd wrote: Uhh.. ReNaeNae just went on a furious locking spree.. All hail our glorious artamazone.. :D

lol, gimmie more! I need more! :D

Haha.. I can imagine that you receive some angry PM's when you clean up. Thought you deserved a pad on the back to counterweight it :P

and a well deserved one :)

Ps. Does counterweight make any sence in that sentence. Sometimes my english is just rubbish :S

At 9/26/09 08:00 PM, Lundsfryd wrote: Thought you deserved a pad on the back to counterweight it :P
Ps. Does counterweight make any sence in that sentence. Sometimes my english is just rubbish :S

yes, but pad doesn't! ;)

You should all join the screw collab, btw! I mean... how hard is it to draw a freaken screw?!?

At 9/26/09 08:05 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:

At 9/26/09 08:00 PM, Lundsfryd wrote: Thought you deserved a pad on the back to counterweight it :P
Ps. Does counterweight make any sence in that sentence. Sometimes my english is just rubbish :S

yes, but pad doesn't! ;)

Really? Then what.. A clap on the back.. Tab.. What is called..

You should all join the screw collab, btw! I mean... how hard is it to draw a freaken screw?!?

I know. I have been meaning to make something for it since FNR started it. Its just about finding the time. Kindda like finding the time to do your doubles piece ;)

At 9/26/09 08:19 PM, Lundsfryd wrote:

At 9/26/09 08:05 PM, ReNaeNae wrote:

At 9/26/09 08:00 PM, Lundsfryd wrote: Thought you deserved a pad on the back to counterweight it :P

yes, but pad doesn't! ;)

Really? Then what.. A clap on the back.. Tab.. What is called..

Lol, it's a pat on the back :P

At 9/26/09 01:52 AM, Emerald-Mara85 wrote: Naked pics,
Man, I wish to get some of that but certain country policies might get me arrested...I can only get naked pics from approved art books.

Are you serious ?! Man that's rough.

Speaking of learning from teens,
Does the art classes from high school make you learn art seriously?

I haven't been in one but from what I've seen from my friends, they just expiremented with different
things (sculpting,painting,etc) and not too much in detail

At 9/26/09 08:56 PM, EJR wrote:

At 9/26/09 01:52 AM, Emerald-Mara85 wrote: Speaking of learning from teens,
Does the art classes from high school make you learn art seriously?

Not really.
We pretty much just took pictures and reproduced them in different medias, just three times as big.
She made some effort with "okay stand on the table and we'll draw you", but that only happened once or twice.

Maybe that's just because i was in art1 (meant for sophomores) as a Senior, but i learned more from the internet and books.

Question for people who can do landscapes and environments:

Environments and landscapes, to me, seem so infinitely complex. How do you people cope with that? I mean, even if I squint my eyes and try to imagine just the highlights, body and shadows of objects, they never seem to look very nice. Trees and foliage, specifically, piss me off. =[

At 9/26/09 11:54 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Question for people who can do landscapes and environments:

Environments and landscapes, to me, seem so infinitely complex. How do you people cope with that? I mean, even if I squint my eyes and try to imagine just the highlights, body and shadows of objects, they never seem to look very nice. Trees and foliage, specifically, piss me off. =[

When it comes to background landscapes I always do them blurry and simple.
But if it is the landscape itself I'm trying to picture I always start with the main shape of it, mountains and similar. And then I add smaller and smaller details until I'm pround of it.

At 9/26/09 11:54 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Trees and foliage, specifically, piss me off. =[

You see Kraig, you just need to paint happy trees

At 9/27/09 02:14 AM, Captain-Ben wrote:

At 9/26/09 11:54 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Trees and foliage, specifically, piss me off. =[

You see Kraig, you just need to paint happy trees

God I love you.

At 9/27/09 03:03 AM, Vousielle wrote: God I love you.

Come run away with me! I don't care what my father says, we can elope to Hawaii and be happy there!

At 9/27/09 03:18 AM, EJR wrote:

At 9/27/09 03:03 AM, Vousielle wrote:

At 9/27/09 02:14 AM, Captain-Ben wrote:

At 9/26/09 11:54 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Trees and foliage, specifically, piss me off. =[

You see Kraig, you just need to paint happy trees

God I love you.

I love him more.

Pssh, as if.

At 9/27/09 03:19 AM, Captain-Ben wrote:

At 9/27/09 03:03 AM, Vousielle wrote: God I love you.

Come run away with me! I don't care what my father says, we can elope to Hawaii and be happy there!

Oh, do say we will be going to the big island, do!

At 9/27/09 03:23 AM, EJR wrote:

At 9/27/09 03:20 AM, Vousielle wrote: Pssh, as if.

I'm heartbroken. I thought Ben and I shared something.

I am disappointed yet again.

That will teach you to love, you dastardly cad!

Ben and I are e-mansexfriends, and you can't just undo a bond like that.