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lovingthedark
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 7th, 2012 @ 08:57 AM Reply

At 4/7/12 06:37 AM, J-qb wrote:

:LOTS OF STUFF

Jasper, the thread was based off an anime screenshot. How is that not stylized work that NG artists didn't make?

I adore realism and anatomy with a fiery passion, but there is little point in critiquing anatomy in a stylized image. I do think the thread could be redone with people posting images of their own work to get anatomy fixed or just to challenge people. I know I could contribute a few figure drawing failures.


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Daverom
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 7th, 2012 @ 06:39 PM Reply

I would be totally fine with an anotomy trouble thread if the images posted there were trying to emulate real life anatomy.
Lupin fucking isn't.

ornery
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 7th, 2012 @ 06:42 PM Reply

At 4/7/12 06:37 AM, J-qb wrote: blah blah blah

Do you really want to open this can of worms? I hate writing lock posts, but its sort of an unspoken rule that you should try to give one when possible, doesn't mean they will all be great sadly.

The thread was deteriorating into what would eventually be a big cluster fuck of images who's anatomy would be pointless to critique or childish attacks on various peoples anatomy skills.

The idea of the thread "find the anatomical error in the piece" is a good exercise if you are in a figure drawing class where flawless anatomy is the main focus and the person running it has found very specific examples that actually contain anatomical errors that were not stylized or intended (I have been in such classes, and Renaissance pieces are loaded with these). However ultimately the lesson the prof is trying to teach isn't how to spot errors, its more how to make the errors work or be less noticeable, or that sometimes the error is more important to the piece than getting everything correct. However we aren't in that scenario, we are on NG. The art 101 critique tutorial even discourages mentioning anatomy as something because 99% of the user base works in a stylized format where "fixing the anatomy" isn't exactly the big issue in any of their pieces.

Does this mean that users shouldn't know proper anatomy? No. Does it mean that they shouldn't be able to identify when a picture makes an anatomical error? No. It just means that the way the thread was made and going wasn't the right way to go about that topic or activity. All of the pictures in that thread had so many anatomical errors due to stylization that it would be completely pointless to even begin to try to point out where an error was.

So if someone who really knew what they were doing and talking about was able to find pictures that had a only a small handful of errors, and wasn't mean spirited about them, and wanted to run it themselves, and knew the correct answer to the question "where is the error" in the piece so that they could confirm and deny when users made guesses, then maybe the thread would have a purpose.

J-qb
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 8th, 2012 @ 02:53 AM Reply

See, if you had written that it wouldnt look like you're decapitating every initiative.


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M-Maher
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 8th, 2012 @ 07:52 PM Reply

Vice.com is a very documentary heavy website, they have a whole show called art talk.

why not check it out?

Also reading above; did I evoke argument amoungst you lot? man.

You should know I was piss drunk when I made that thread and just wanted to laugh at people more talented than I.

and before you bitch and moan; got no more fucks to give, I'm all out so don't go running your mouth because I'm not chasing after it.

Kinsei
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 8th, 2012 @ 08:11 PM Reply

At 4/8/12 07:52 PM, M-Maher wrote: Also reading above; did I evoke argument amoungst you lot? man.

You should know I was piss drunk when I made that thread and just wanted to laugh at people more talented than I.

and before you bitch and moan; got no more fucks to give, I'm all out so don't go running your mouth because I'm not chasing after it.

I'm not against the idea of studying various pieces and picking out their flaws, I do think that it is a valid exercise, but a single frame of animation is not a good example by any stretch of the imagination.
Animation has to be somewhat over exaggerated to work in the first place. Especially scenes of movement and action. Coupling that with basic practices of animation along with the stylization of what ever show you are showing, and you get wildly skewed anatomy. It all works because the illusion of motion.
If you had chosen a different Start point, I don't think it would have fizzled as quickly


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Captain
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 8th, 2012 @ 11:02 PM Reply

Anatomy's overrated, draw something interesting instead.

mytwocents

Look at my art!

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Re2deemer
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 07:21 AM Reply

I know the topic of working for free is something that comes up often 'round here, thanks to all the request threads. But there's something....I don't even know what to call it. Just see for yourselves.

Paying to work for free, found via CGTalk.

"30% of the workforce at our digital studio down in Florida, is not only going to be free, with student labor, its going to be labor thatâEUTMs actually paying us for the priviledge of working on our films."


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Kuoke
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 07:38 AM Reply

At 4/9/12 07:21 AM, Re2deemer wrote: I know the topic of working for free is something that comes up often 'round here, thanks to all the request threads. But there's something....I don't even know what to call it. Just see for yourselves.

Paying to work for free, found via CGTalk.

"30% of the workforce at our digital studio down in Florida, is not only going to be free, with student labor, its going to be labor thatâEUTMs actually paying us for the priviledge of working on our films."

I skimmed, but wouldn't this be the same principle as paying to go to a university? It's all experience so presumably if what ever they're involved in has some sort of respectable status in the industry I would think writing down that you worked here on your resume is the same as saying you went to a university course for however long.


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Aigis
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 08:16 AM Reply

At 4/9/12 07:38 AM, Kuoke wrote: I skimmed, but wouldn't this be the same principle as paying to go to a university? It's all experience so presumably if what ever they're involved in has some sort of respectable status in the industry I would think writing down that you worked here on your resume is the same as saying you went to a university course for however long.

I think it's more the equivalent of saying "I'm a chump who'll pay my way into slave labour. Working for nothing is a step up from my last job. Don't pay me anything."


Check out my webcomic: The Amazing and Remarkably True Adventures of Kim and Amy
Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Kuoke
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 08:31 AM Reply

At 4/9/12 08:16 AM, Aigis wrote:
At 4/9/12 07:38 AM, Kuoke wrote: I skimmed, but wouldn't this be the same principle as paying to go to a university? It's all experience so presumably if what ever they're involved in has some sort of respectable status in the industry I would think writing down that you worked here on your resume is the same as saying you went to a university course for however long.
I think it's more the equivalent of saying "I'm a chump who'll pay my way into slave labour. Working for nothing is a step up from my last job. Don't pay me anything."

I would say the same thing to people who pay for an education. At least with this one [assuming they're a legitimate thing] you're getting actual work experience.


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Aigis
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 08:55 AM Reply

At 4/9/12 08:31 AM, Kuoke wrote: I would say the same thing to people who pay for an education. At least with this one [assuming they're a legitimate thing] you're getting actual work experience.

At least with education you're actually getting, um, an education.


Check out my webcomic: The Amazing and Remarkably True Adventures of Kim and Amy
Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Kuoke
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 09:09 AM Reply

At 4/9/12 08:55 AM, Aigis wrote: At least with education you're actually getting, um, an education.

Yes, you get a school education in a school, well said. But you would also get a working 'education' out of a work environment. There are people on this planet who don't do well in school purely because the set up of the generalised education system isn't their style of learning.
If the option was at least offered for people to go for an alternative route to achieve the same goal, namely experience, then I don't see the problem.


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Lintire
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 11:10 AM Reply

At 4/9/12 11:01 AM, Otto wrote: So like I said, not all education should be dismissed as 'only schooly' or whatever. We're not talking about GCSEs here, right?

He wasn't dismissing schools, he was saying they were equally valid pathways.

For the project itself - I'd never pay for the opportunity of working with a major film studio. Especially when I can get the same level of education with an internship and still be able to eat.

It's a nice idea, though.

bigjonny13
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 12:08 PM Reply

Personally, I think paying to work for someone is just a big rip off.
Sure, it will help improve your skills, but like Lintire said, you just do an internship, unpaid work for a company.
Loads of companies are willing to receive labor for free, so I see no reason why you should pay to work for someone.

J-qb
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 03:15 PM Reply

system-wise I'd say the problem with paying for a job (or having a non/low paying job for that matter) is that it stimulates inequality. i.e. if career opportunities depend on wether or not you can get by without getting paid, that means good jobs go to poeple with money.
on an individual basis I thoroughly understand that poeple would pay for certain jobs.


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TurkeyOnAStick
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 04:46 PM Reply

At 4/9/12 12:08 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote: Loads of companies are willing to receive labor for free, so I see no reason why you should pay to work for someone.

While businesses would be happy to receive free work, I can think of two things that tend to get in the way:
- There's no jobs available, since no money is coming in due to lack of clients. The company also has to initiate you, and provide you the space and equipment you need to work.
- Your lack of experience may be more of an inconvenience to the company, rather than a boon. Somebody else in the company has to take on the responsibility of supervising your work, to make sure you're not hashing it up.

In that regard, I can understand why employers may wish a fee to employ your services. Just like a university's tuition fees goes towards university maintenance and lecturer salaries, I can imagine* that the same would apply for the employers. Both to finance the supervision, and fund projects provided by the company (and not clients).

*I say "imagine" because I've no evidence to support my argument

... having said that, the article does say:
"30% of the workforce at our digital studio ... its going to be labor thatâEUTMs actually paying us for the priviledge of working on our films."
which I don't agree with, since it suggests that there are jobs available that require people. Considering these projects are already funded, it's a bit cheeky to request more money from the people you're employing. Especially when the amount of money you're requesting is as steep as $9500 (~£6000) a year.


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Lucky
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 06:06 PM Reply

At 4/9/12 08:31 AM, Kuoke wrote: I would say the same thing to people who pay for an education. At least with this one [assuming they're a legitimate thing] you're getting actual work experience.

Holy shit Kuoke, i didn't realise you watched Jessie Cocks and TB's stuff :D Awesome fan comic on DA!


My Artsy Thread
Current top 3 forum artists

Fersteger /Flowers10 / ZaneZansorrow

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Kuoke
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 9th, 2012 @ 08:36 PM Reply

At 4/9/12 04:46 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: - Your lack of experience may be more of an inconvenience to the company, rather than a boon. Somebody else in the company has to take on the responsibility of supervising your work, to make sure you're not hashing it up.

This. If you're paying for a job than you probably were unable to get into a conventional means of learning because of your lack of skill. So those people wouldn't be contributing to any of the companies products so what would the point be, it just turns back into paying for work experience.
Unless they decide to be dicks and give him the 'go get this for this person' jobs rather than what they paid for.

At 4/9/12 06:06 PM, Lucky wrote: Holy shit Kuoke, i didn't realise you watched Jessie Cocks and TB's stuff :D Awesome fan comic on DA!

Thanks cuz, he still copies/pastes the same description in all his skyrim videos so I get a spike of views every time. -_-


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Kinsei
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 10th, 2012 @ 05:47 PM Reply

How come I'm never around when I seem to piss people off. it takes all the fun out of it.

Anyway in other news. I made it in to Joplin's Third Thursdays.

Like First Friday... er you get the idea...

Now just to work up some new stuff for it. They mostly want my sketch work. But I want do more than just that.


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silversunned
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 11th, 2012 @ 04:04 AM Reply

It's nice to see that the hostility still runs like wine here! :D Oh how I miss these forums sometimes, I get the most intelligently Stupid people at the most random times, and then there are those genuinely intelligent individuals that are just plain awesome :D :D

TurkeyOnAStick
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 11th, 2012 @ 06:17 AM Reply

I've seen these zentai advertising threads pop up a couple of times now.
I know most of you guys know better, but I'll give a general warning:

Don't click on the links, they're full of malware.


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Aigis
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 12th, 2012 @ 05:49 PM Reply

Ladies, gentlemen. You are looking at one famous dude.

Because I have just had published an interview with me. By Thedark.

Here.


Check out my webcomic: The Amazing and Remarkably True Adventures of Kim and Amy
Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Kinsei
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 12th, 2012 @ 05:52 PM Reply

At 4/12/12 05:49 PM, Aigis wrote: Ladies, gentlemen. You are looking at one famous dude.

Because I have just had published an interview with me. By Thedark.

Um... thats great, yeah... haha
I'll try and keep my sarcasm to myself :P
Although I guess its good he isn't stealing anything...


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bigjonny13
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 12th, 2012 @ 06:00 PM Reply

At 4/12/12 05:49 PM, Aigis wrote: Ladies, gentlemen. You are looking at one famous dude.
Because I have just had published an interview with me. By Thedark.
Here.

I like how you responded to his bland questions with bland answers.

Luwano
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 06:47 PM Reply

I love the current site skin by keepwalking. Somewhat like a futuristic homage to the city skyline from the old NG design.

Just sayin'

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x-factor11
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 07:38 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 06:47 PM, Luwano wrote: I love the current site skin by keepwalking. Somewhat like a futuristic homage to the city skyline from the old NG design.

Just sayin'

I like the new background too, Keepwalking has some wicked talent. Actually, I remember one of his submissions actually had above a 5.0 rating for a while. Even though it was a bug, he deserved it dammit!

Vonschlippe
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 09:51 PM Reply

I really like the new background as well. It's wicked, and Keepwalking is awesome!

I hope I get to do the site skin one day... :D

J-qb
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 14th, 2012 @ 12:11 AM Reply

At 4/13/12 06:47 PM, Luwano wrote: I love the current site skin by keepwalking. Somewhat like a futuristic homage to the city skyline from the old NG design.

I hate how it's supposedly there because tankgirl was smoking though....
but yeah, I love the new changeable backdrops and hope they get a lot of user involvement.


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bigjonny13
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Response to Art Forum Lounge Apr. 14th, 2012 @ 11:12 AM Reply

At 4/14/12 08:23 AM, BilalZ wrote: is this telinc1 guy an art theif most his work looks okay but this stands out it looks like a 3d render but he says it's made in photoshop but then again maybe he used stock image but is that even allowed? and should i report abuse? also this is supposed to be an audio player he created which he claims to be made in 10-5 minutes is that even possible? i don't think making an audio player would be that easy and the programming would take 10-15 minutes.

I've seen the quality of art in his games, and it's pretty bad.
A lot of his submitted art just seems to be stock images run through photoshop.