At 8/18/11 01:48 AM, M-Vero wrote: Every forum is cliquey and full of injokes. It's an unavoidable part of joining a forum.

There's no problem with a forum forming cliques. That's what makes it a community, rather than a bunch of individual people.

The issue is with being elitist and hostile to newcomers.

I never came to the art forum before like, late 2009, so I don't really have anything to compare it's current condition to, but I don't really think it's that bad. I think the only real problem is the lack of users. We only have maybe 15 art forum regs at the most, which is obviously relevant to the lack of critique people have been getting. We need to find a way to get people here, everyone knows about Newgrounds but nobody seems to be aware of the art forum. I don't really have any ideas for spreading awareness, but if I ever get around to actually posting stuff on my Deviantart often enough that people ever visit my profile, i'll try and get some people to come check out the art forum.

At least this way it's easier to keep track of which users I think are cool and which are annoying.

I've been coming to newgrounds on my free time while drawing making sketches, and storyboarding my new series, though I can't easily post works up as some others( I really should save for a scanner.. I keep telling myself this). I still try to be active in the forums by giving feedback and such on threads, I'm not much a picky person. As long as it seems like the art has had time put into it. I'm not the best in critiquing work I have much to learn myself.
I don't know where I'm going with this but yeah, I'm around.

At 8/18/11 01:41 AM, VividGrim wrote:

At 8/18/11 01:02 AM, Fifty-50 wrote: Why didn't you say so? I'm here to help you. All the jokes here usually involve drama and the regs themselves. I'll do my best.

Probably because I was intimidated. :p also, get in stickam. Everyone's on cam

Did I mention stickam hates me? I got permabanned for no reason at all.

apparently i'm an art dick who helped kill off the mlp contest, i totally wasn't one of the people trying to help it or anything, just saying

anyway i'm bumping a few group activities, chow is running smoothly, collaboration thread got bumped, got plans to bump a few more and couldn't give a shit what any general idiots say or think about anything

that is all

Anybody who thinks the MLJ:CiM is an in-joke will be fined over 9000 aweso art forum dollars.

I agree with most of what Ben said, and I think it would be nice to go for some projects that welcome people with open arms. Few things I'd like to add:

- It's up to the regs to make art forum activities. This was what I joined the art forum for yonks ago, and the behaviour has died out. Wtf.

- MLP:FiM is a clique. I have no problem with art contests authenticated by Mindchamber. I do have a problem with memes from General overflowing into this forum.

- Having a base of regular users is a good thing. AVAT is a clear indicator for this. If I didn't think that anybody was capable of running an activity, then I'd be the one running that thing ... sadly this is not the case. The majority of the contest is being contributed by regulars, since they're the ones who stick around. Others tend not to be serious enough, or are just flashes in the pan.

- Threads like the Evolution thread should be reborn, and not revived. Just because they were once great doesn't mean they will continue to be so. The current one grew stale and met evolutionary dead ends, hence why it died. It requires a fresh overhaul in a new thread.

I dunno, I'm seeing a little of discussion and a bit of drama regarding this, but basically everyone wants the art forum to be more artsy.
If that's the case, then why are you guys still arguing about whether or not the forums are dead to you in some form or another, when you should actually be drawing right now...?

At 8/18/11 06:25 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: truth

Thanks for that Rob, thanks a lot....

- Threads like the Evolution thread should be reborn, and not revived.

I will still finish B, mkayyyy?

At 8/18/11 11:03 AM, Luwano wrote:

At 8/18/11 06:25 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: truth

Thanks for that Rob, thanks a lot....

- Threads like the Evolution thread should be reborn, and not revived.

I will still finish B, mkayyyy?

im in the process of making the new thread

At 8/18/11 06:42 AM, Kumakun4 wrote: I dunno, I'm seeing a little of discussion and a bit of drama regarding this, but basically everyone wants the art forum to be more artsy.
If that's the case, then why are you guys still arguing about whether or not the forums are dead to you in some form or another, when you should actually be drawing right now...?

Drawing won't have any influence on the attitude of the forum as a whole.
What you're giving us here is kind of an idiotic point, as you're suggesting that, in order for the art forum to become more artistic, people need to stop posting and just draw.

A forum runs on posts. That's what makes it a forum.

And, yeah, I've also grown to somewhat dislike the attitude of the forum, which is part of why I haven't really been posting much here lately myself. I lurk from time to time, but I rarely see anything I really want to reply to or that really interests me.

At 8/18/11 01:01 PM, Luxembourg wrote: What you're giving us here is kind of an idiotic point
I've also grown to somewhat dislike the attitude of the forum.

Dismissing my point as "idiotic" is hardly what I'd call a better attitude.
I think you're just trying to make sound like it's an idiot comment without really putting any thought into what I'm saying.
The regs on here hardly draw anymore, so there's nothing to critique. Thus resulting in any subsequent posts being either A) complaining about how the forums aren't how they used to be or B) Inside jokes that outsiders don't get and honestly don't really have much to do with actual art.

To be blunt, there aren't a million ways to go about this. Either you all sit here and discuss how the forums are no longer how they used to be and possibly start arguing amongst each other about it, or you can actually TRY to make a tangible difference and put in the extra effort to pump out more art.

I mean, let's face it. There are ALREADY contests out there. There is (or was, I don't know where it's at now) the AVAT, the doubles contest, the CHOW, the tarot card collab....
The projects are there. There are just hardly any people submitting. So it's not a question of whether or not there are activities, it's the fact that the regs are no longer participating as they've fallen into some sort of artistic lethargy.

I, for one, will put in some effort in the next few days, as I admit that I've hardly contributed anything artistically in these forums for the past few weeks and work on my game project has been super slow.

You can all interpret that however you want, but basically, I'm going to try and draw more.

Maybe if we all put in that effort, awesome people like BizzJoe and VonSchlippe would come back.

At 8/18/11 04:22 PM, Kumakun4 wrote:

Stuff.

I'll admit, I took your comment too much at face value, but I think we have a misunderstanding here.

This argument isn't as much about how much people are or aren't drawing as much as it has been about the attitudes of those posting in the forum and the manner in which they post; laziness has been mentioned, yes, but I didn't read through these posts and walk away with the feeling that that was the main point. People are being idiotic assholes. I thought you were saying that telling people to be less idiotic and less rude was pointless because that could be fixed by drawing more.

When it comes down to the way people are acting, though, that doesn't have as much to do with how much they draw as it does the way they treat the forum. Trying to fix attitude can really only be done through talking.

At 8/18/11 04:22 PM, Kumakun4 wrote: The regs on here hardly draw anymore, so there's nothing to critique.

Plus people don't often critique the art that is on here. People are constantly complaining about posting a large number of times with no one offering their opinion.

At 8/18/11 04:44 PM, Aigis wrote:

At 8/18/11 04:22 PM, Kumakun4 wrote: The regs on here hardly draw anymore, so there's nothing to critique.

Plus people don't often critique the art that is on here. People are constantly complaining about posting a large number of times with no one offering their opinion.

Rendivbvisdiribvridsvbrad doesn't count.

Might as well give my two cents here with a number of points being made recently:

Regs being elitists and discouraging to other art posts? I don't feel any sort of diminishment of my stature as an occasional poster in comparison to the sheer volume of posts by the few regs left. To date, I've had about four maybe five regs give comments on the work I do in my personal thread and all were helpful (really didn't expect maficmelody to take one of his comment as far as a drawing showing shapes representations in a space based off of what I originally posted, but like I said it helped.)

Wanting more art out of the regs isn't something practical, in a way. For all we know they could be applying their talents to collabs that are not advertised in the forums as of yet. Another possibility is that they are in a slump as far as coming up with new ideas. Unless they're doing something based on a reference, it's kinda hard for them to pull something out of their ass and call it an inspiration worth drawing.
I see Fifty-50, Aigis, and flowers10 (just to name a few) pop up once in a while, and they blow the s*it I put my mark on off the planet in terms of quality every time. But unless they post their works as they progress to get feedback in the early stages, it's easily a couple weeks of steady work or more to turn out the kind of quality we typically see from any of the regs.

And Kuma (going off your post at 4:22pm EST): Despite the fact that I am responding to this, in my mind this useless dribble of an argument is an example of why some of the more seasoned regs disappeared. Arguing over how people apply themselves and in what capacity rather than post more yourself, doesn't matter if what you post is your own work for critique by others or a critique of someone else that looks to be trying to improve or is showcasing , doesn't help. If you want more than what is offered, lead by example instead of laying the groundwork and expecting people to pick up what you started.

Words are forever just that, they carry no weight if none are willing to act.

At 8/18/11 06:04 PM, XWarrior61 wrote: in my mind this useless dribble of an argument is an example of why some of the more seasoned regs disappeared.

...what?

Arguing over how people apply themselves and in what capacity rather than post more yourself, doesn't matter if what you post is your own work for critique by others or a critique of someone else that looks to be trying to improve or is showcasing , doesn't help.

I keep reading this over and over, but it makes no sense to me.

If you want more than what is offered, lead by example instead of laying the groundwork and expecting people to pick up what you started.

I guess you missed the point.
And some text, apparently.

I think that there should be a topic stickied to the top of the forum with links to all of the Activity threads.
Just saying.

We've had the sticky discussion several times now, mods to my knowledge can't sticky topics
hopefully with the redesign, the forums will be getting a much needed updating. many things are starting to show their age.

In other news I found my Animation Show dvds

MADLAB's has got banned from Kongregate, finally.
I noticed he's started uploading Music, which is a lot harder to crack down on, unfortunately ;/

wha-is madlab?

One of the craftier art thieves we've come across.

At 8/19/11 04:37 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: MADLAB's has got banned from Kongregate, finally.
I noticed he's started uploading Music, which is a lot harder to crack down on, unfortunately ;/

Bring it up in the audio forum. If he's stealing music from Newgrounds, they'll totally snipe him.

At 8/18/11 07:33 PM, Kumakun4 wrote: I guess you missed the point.
And some text, apparently.

Ususally the case with me, I'll go back and hide in my hole for a while.

Some friends of mine from college started a pretty sweet art challange blog. Its sorta like the doubles we have here, but with a twist. As of now what they are doing works so well because they work with a smaller group and in a more direct personal way with each artist, and only 2 at a time.

I bet we could figure out something similar for the forums. Some sort of sketch exchange type thing. If people like this idea I'll think of something and get it started.

Every time I see TheZen post I get sad when I realize he's not e-m-b-r-i-o.

Quoting from this thread

At 8/20/11 09:26 PM, Artist-Lost wrote: Every time an artist does a job for free, or for a dirt cheap price ($30-$45) they downgrade the value of art as people begin to expect that level from artists. One of the major rules of the American Institute of Graphic Arts (AIGA) is never do work for free or for below value as this causes companies to devalue artists. People doing that crap is the whole reason we have starving artists, or artists having to have a day job to finance their work.

As sorry as I am for all you lovely (would be) professionals; this is crap. Sure I understand that that is an adopted rule by AIGA, but forcing it on others or blaming them for not doing so is utter Bullshit. If you as a professional artist can't compete with free or cheap amateurs; i.e. companies don't value your art that much higher than an amateurs, that is your problem. You can either try to convince companies of the value of profesional work, or draw the conclusion that your art isn't that economically valuable. Tough luck; there are lots of poeple that can't make a living doing what they like to do.
If artists should have any special stature, that should come from the artists themselves (convincing companies of their worth) or from the government subsidizing artists, not from some kind of arbitrary monopoly.
Again, I'm sorry if (or rather, that) this means we have starving artists, but so be it. Apparently poeple value your work as a bartender/supermarket employee/dog portraitist/whatever more than your work as an artist

At 8/19/11 12:35 PM, ornery wrote: If people like this idea I'll think of something and get it started.

I approve :D

At 8/21/11 09:42 AM, J-qb wrote: Quoting from this thread
Again, I'm sorry if (or rather, that) this means we have starving artists, but so be it. Apparently poeple value your work as a bartender/supermarket employee/dog portraitist/whatever more than your work as an artist

Qb.... I think I just shed a tear for that :')

hey guys, would anyone be kind enough to review my recently uploaded picture I just done please? Also kensei if you could be kind enough to review my work again?
Thanks :) Here's the link