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I have ...a few ...quibbles about the Art Portal.

The main one being the quality work that gets through.
Its pretty damn obvious that a fair amount of shit gets through the portal, when no effort or time is put into it , and it seems to get through by people's little interbuddys scouting them and voting 5 straight away. Being
generic also helps if you can't be bothered to put in the effort.

I see others work, and although they may not be the best artists on the site, they deffinately have potential .
And yes i'd like to see the Art Portal full of nothing but the best, but at the same time people will never become the best, unless they receive crit, so they can self improve.
Unfortunately these people get less attention then the ' lolface' drawing idiots we harbour.

I feel the scouting system is a good way to get artists through, the same as the flash portal, but instead the work can be uploaded and found at a diffrent time ( an hour, a day, a week later ).

I just feel that be able to scout someone is a privallige, its showing the artist has been reckognised for their work, but as you can see, its abused.
Possibly some sort of limit to who can scout? Some form of qualification on who could scout, and how may times they cans cout in a certain time frame...

My last point is the reveiws. Basically i like to reveiw submissions, but in them i give crit, and i like to see how the artist responds to them, to see if more advise could be offered/ the conversation taken into a little more depth.
But i have to either favourite every submission i reveiw, or remeber where it was/ which one it was.
Some form of notification would be good, like the one under ' My Account ' that shows " Flash Reveiws With Author Response ".

I really love the art forum, and take it seriously. AFtre all this timewaiting, and the Admin's hard work on making it, i feel its taken a little forgranted.

If i'm skipping ahead of plans and rushing people, then sorry, if this has helped then alls good.
I just needed a good rant about it.

* Thanks to ReNeaNea for pointing me in the right direction to post this.

At 7/22/09 08:25 AM, mansellscore wrote: I have ...a few ...quibbles about the Art Portal.

most of us do... but its still in the early stages...

The main one being the quality work that gets through.

i have to agree on this point... i have already brought one user in this thread up beacuse of the shocking work that was passed...

Its pretty damn obvious that a fair amount of shit gets through the portal

once again i agree... for example a load of clock/lock pictures spawned all of a sudden... they are generic and rather spam like...

I see others work, and although they may not be the best artists on the site, they deffinately have potential .

these users should be alowed onto the art portal for others to help improve... i know im not the best artist... in fact, i feel my work is rather crap at times... but i know alot about it and tend to help the users who seem to be putting the time in their side so i put some time back into it to help them improve future works... you may have seen a large amount of my comments on artists work and most of it is positive feedback...

And yes i'd like to see the Art Portal full of nothing but the best, but at the same time people will never become the best, unless they receive crit, so they can self improve.

once again... art is a funny subject... some people may love it while others hate it... there is no wrong or right anwser... but you must take into conideration what they where trying to achive... and if they havent tell them where they went wrong...

Unfortunately these people get less attention then the ' lolface' drawing idiots we harbour.

indeed... i keep going back through the pages as many users artwork are lost in the scouting time zone... and when they are scouted their work apears when it was submitted... so it may be 5 or 10 pages back before their most current submission...

its abused.

give someone power and they will either use it or abuse it...

Possibly some sort of limit to who can scout?

i think this has already been brought up... and in a way it sort of is... there is 4 / 5 main scouters from the main Art bot... and they choose who they scout... then they get to scout... but i understand where your coming from...

and how may times they can scout in a certain time frame...

EVERYONE can only scout ONE person per day now...

My last point is the reveiws.

at the moment there is no area in our profiles that store that information... its something that will be added at a later date im sure...

I just needed a good rant about it.

everyone does from time to time... :3

* Thanks to ReNeaNea for pointing me in the right direction to post this.

God bless ReNeaNea...

... overall i feel that the art portal could use with more mods on top of it on quality control... but the thing is art is art... iv been to some world famous gallerys of art in the world and seen total rubbish on its walls... i agree alot of anime / manga style stuff is getting in... beacuse thats what the most common art in users aged around 14-16 which is what i suspose what newgrounds has... i think if the rules where tighter and the art portal more strict, it may become a place for the best of the best artwork... who knows... il just keep helping people with artwork to improve them untill something is done :3

I think that the art portal should have some way of advertising your art.
Based off the fact that if you aren't very well known around newgrounds or on these forums your work may be overlooked.
Even if you put a lot of time and effort into your art.
Just a thought. :3

At 7/22/09 09:10 AM, crackerdevil wrote: Just a thought. :3

again the art portal is still an on going project... this has been brought up where a main page for the art portal there will be a block of users of the day or art of the moment or something like that... who knows what features they are working on at the moment... you can always link to some of your art in your sig like i have (at this moment in time), or just be happy people view your work without anylinks... if people want to see it they will go looking for it :3

At 7/22/09 08:55 AM, LegolaSS wrote:

... overall i feel that the art portal could use with more mods on top of it on quality control... but the thing is art is art... iv been to some world famous gallerys of art in the world and seen total rubbish on its walls... i agree alot of anime / manga style stuff is getting in... beacuse thats what the most common art in users aged around 14-16 which is what i suspose what newgrounds has... i think if the rules where tighter and the art portal more strict, it may become a place for the best of the best artwork... who knows... il just keep helping people with artwork to improve them untill something is done :3

Thank god , i had a thought that i was just ranting on in vain.
You're right, i had high suspicions i was going at it abit early, the art portal hasn't been around long, i should be patiant.

Its a shame, like you say there is no right or wrong we could argue 'till armegeddon, but i dislike 90% of the genric anime crap posted. Some of it has truly good design and carry out, but originallity has never been their strong point.

And yes, i always pick up one positive point of anything i reveiw ( at least ), but critism is the best form of help.
I love critism personally.
Hopefully within the next 2-3 days i'll finally get some of my sketch work uploaded. Finally will have access to a working scanner.

I've never bothered with the Art forums i must admit, but i think i'll start to stry from the chaotic general now :)

To Mansellscore,

As far as your opinion about some of the art that's in the portal, for the most part i'm on your side. There is some art that's in the portal that I personally might not think needs to be in there, however none of the submissions you pointed out were particularly terrible or broke any rule (Well with the exception of OctopusPriem, but for some reason I do kind of like his work XD). So there's no reason for them not to be in the portal, I didn't check to see if you were a scouted user or not, but have you looked at the unscouted section of the Art Portal? There are WAY worse art submissions that could be in the portal, the stuff you have pointed out really aren't that bad in comparison to the stuff that doesn't get in.

There are some amazing artists in the portal, but don't let them outshine the kids who are also talented in their own respect.

Love, Captain-Ben

Is this art?

Hi everyone, I recently found the Newgrounds site and was amazing at the huge amount of content here and also you have an art portal! The art I create is not traditional paper/pen or even 3dmax/maya but art created using a 3D game engine by ID software called Quake3. This is a hobby thing that I enjoy in my free time and have been doing for years. I always try to create stuff that is visually interesting and my work (full details can be found on website) is well known through Q3 communities for that quality.

The editor called GTKRadiant is a complex monster of a program that is hard to use and not very friendly but it is something I know and enjoy using. Here is some screenshots of the editor and how it looks:
Editor (All windows) - Small and Large.
Editor with different axis viewpoint (similiar to 3dmax) - Small and Large.

My latest map/level was created from scratch and was inspired by my recent holiday in Barcelona where I found Gaudi who created amazing organic stuff. I have photos of on my personal site if anyone is interested and it was used as inspiration for my current project.

I wanted to create something that was very much mood/style art driven and with odd upward angles from basic materials (wood/stone/metal) The 3D engine has some basic metal/stone but no wood so I used some textures of my own. I could have created all of my own textures but I wanted to concentrate on architecture more so used some existing assets that came with the engine. I posted some final screenshots of what I created here and got good reviews and votes. Here is some final/editor views of those images I posted.

Image 1 - Final and Editor
Image 2 - Final and Editor

The editor views show the 3D shapes that were used to create the scene but the process does not stop there. The map has to be lit (lights placed and set to correct values), sealed up and material/texture shaders created. Once all the engine specific stuff has been done the map has to be compiled with a command line utility. Once all the technical stuff has been done the level is finally ready to walk around and enjoy. I picked several good viewpoints and then uploaded them to this site for people to enjoy.

After a crazy long rambling by me on the process of how I created my artwork, why this post? well I recently had all my artwork deleted and told 'posting images in the portal that are created with an application that does all of the work' and thou I was annoyed by the statement I just wanted to try and show this is not the case. The editor is blank when you start it, there is nothing, you have to build all the walls, supports, tweak the lights, align the textures yourself. The editor is simple a tool much like 3dmax.

I would like to post my artwork to this site but if it is not considered art then ok cool, I can accept that and move on. So as the title says ... Is what I do art? Does it look good? Do you believe I created this myself? If any mod is reading this, please let me know if I can have my art stuff re-posted or not.

If you want further information on me or my other work then please check my personal site.
Thanks for your time
Simonoc

At 7/23/09 05:04 AM, simonoc wrote: Is this art?

now... a few things to take into account... the textures your using are not your own?... the software your using is for a game and thus your taking screen shots of the map... and they arent really artistic... more of a future landscape... its very hard to say if its art or not beacuse art is put blantenly anything...

unless you were to paint or draw these pictures or make them from scratch without any pre-exisiting models or textures i would say no... it would open up the flood gate for people who use games and map making / modding... its also very hard to say if your textures are orginal or copies from elsewhere meaning that we have no prof that you made it or have stolen it from else where...

also been a 3d map as such... we wouldnt be able to use features such as tineye to see if the image was stolen or taken from elsewhere... i have seen your pictures and im still not sure what to make of it... 3d artists make models from scratch using simple shapes and warping the nodes and stuff (im not really into it myself but i know a bit) where are your just doing something similar... ahhh its to hard to say... im not in a posion to say yes or no... so i would wait for a gold aura person to reply :P

Well I assume after a day and no admin/mod reply I should pack my bags and go. It was a lot of fun posting my stuff and getting all the review/votes from various people but it seems my stuff is not welcome here. I would strongly suggest if you don't want game engine stuff then say so in your FAQ, infact probably best just to cut the whole 3d thing to be safe! :P (only joking)

I still don't see why everyone has their knickers in a bunch over this, a game engine is no different to a render engine in 3dmax/maya. I could easily export my architecture to max and light/render it just the same, I still created all the architecture myself, there was no single button magic process as was suggested to me.

With reference to using the game engine assets (textures), the game creators have no issues with people posting screenshots (max renders) to forums, it is not like I am going to profit from this! There are literally hundreds of legal sites on the internet where 3d artists are allowed to use downloadable textues for their own scenes. Probably the most popular one on the net is CGTextures which does specifically say in the site FAQ that textures can be used royality/credit free. I never once hide my sources or what I used to generated my art images with so I certainly don't feel bad about what I did.

I wish you all good luck with your art portal and I hope it turns into the thing you want, because it seems to me you just want a traditional hand drawing thing only, which is very cool but please let people know this and not delete all their work after they have been posting for weeks and getting feedback from people.

If an admin could delete my account here, it would be awesome.
Thanks for your time
Simonoc

At 7/24/09 04:27 AM, simonoc wrote: a game engine is no different to a render engine in 3dmax/maya.

this is true... i personly do not like 3d artwork unless it is artwork... something like this, 3d maps for games and models art really artwork in my book... but thats just me...

With reference to using the game engine assets (textures)

yeah i understand, i was just pointing this out... there needs to be two sides to a convo, not just a one sided talk all the time :3

I wish you all good luck with your art portal and I hope it turns into the thing you want.

you have to also understand the artportal is VERY new and its always getting tweaked and rules may be changed or updated... anything can be classed as art and its very hard to make guild lines to cover everything... but handmade and from scratch art is what newgrounds is trying to get...

If an admin could delete my account here, it would be awesome.

you would have to PM wade... but are you sure you want to delete it?... its alot of hasle, you may as well just leave it...

sorry that you feel that you have to leave already... but if thats what you want to do... then its your move

I was hoping another mod would reply to this, since other than CAD progs I know jack.

At 7/23/09 05:04 AM, simonoc wrote: The art I create is not traditional paper/pen or even 3dmax/maya but art created using a 3D game engine by ID software called Quake3.

If you used a map editor, it's using pre-rendered shapes and textures, which is the equivalent of a dress-up game. Which isn't allowed.

Whereas with 3dsmax and zbrush, these are all made from scratch, and you have to write where lines and nodes go.

At 7/24/09 05:12 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:

If you used a map editor, it's using pre-rendered shapes and textures, which is the equivalent of a dress-up game. Which isn't allowed.

Whereas with 3dsmax and zbrush, these are all made from scratch, and you have to write where lines and nodes go.

This is not strictly true, all 3d packages can use existing models, even max/maya has a model import feature, how can you tell if someone submits an image here from max/maya and know if they created all the assets themselves? All the lines and nodes in my images were created by me from scratch no pre existing mapmodels were used. This is what modern day (unreal, idtech, cryengine, lithtech) game editors do, they give you pre-made objects and you just organize them into different setups. I know all this because my professional job is a level designer. (my website has full details of my professional work)

At 7/24/09 04:44 AM, LegolaSS wrote: you would have to PM wade... but are you sure you want to delete it?... its alot of hasle, you may as well just leave it...

sorry that you feel that you have to leave already... but if thats what you want to do... then its your move

No, I just got the impression I was being ignore and told to go away. If everyone wants to discuss the issue then that is better, I am just annoyed that everyone here seems to have a pre-defined idea of what game art is. The image you posted as an excellent example of 3D art but I just wanted to make something you can run around, a building, some architecture. I still think the way I fitted everything together has a sense of purpose, a particular look.

I fully understand that not everyone will like what I do, that is what I liked about this site, people can vote and review with comments and say if they like or dislike something. At the moment i am just being told my work is a pile of lego bricks made by someone else and I just fitted them together! :P

At 7/24/09 05:54 AM, simonoc wrote: If everyone wants to discuss the issue then that is better,

of course... thats the whole point of fourms... is to discuss things :3

I am just annoyed that everyone here seems to have a pre-defined idea of what game art is.

well everyone has there own ideas... for example art for me is something that is artistic or creative...
im not saying yours isnt... but yours is more like a architect blueprint and render...

I just wanted to make something you can run around, a building, some architecture. I still think the way I fitted everything together has a sense of purpose, a particular look.

its very deep and almost dark... i understand that you want to put up your own art work and thats cool... its just that your artwork is something that hasnt been done yet... so questions get asked if it is art or not...

I fully understand that not everyone will like what I do, that is what I liked about this site, people can vote and review with comments and say if they like or dislike something.

alot of users give rubbish review either a "YAY great job" or a "BOO go away!" so i wouldnt take them to heart...

At the moment i am just being told my work is a pile of lego bricks made by someone else and I just fitted them together! :P

thats beacuse not all the users on this site fully understand 3d engines... they might have used a map creator or something and think you have done something similar... you should educate them in a little blurb under your picture telling them that all the lines / ideas and modeles where made from scratch... then you might get better feed back...

as for me... im still on the fence with this... i dont think its great artwork... if you where to take a screenshot... then edit it with filters and give it a blur and dynamic lighting... it would be alot better...
its not really something i know lots about... and most likely alot of people know nothing... so if you where to give us more information on how it was done and how long it took... what inspired you and other such stuff... you might just see an improvement in how people react... *sorry for the repeating throught... but i think thats what is killing this art off... the lack of knowledge behind the work that goes into it*

At 7/24/09 05:54 AM, simonoc wrote: Im leaving this place, cause I cant post my work in the art portal

Well, you could still post your stuff in the 3d thread here on the art forum, or in a personal showcase thread.
We have survived without the art portal for years, and personally I still prefer posting my work on the art forum.
I also believe you have a bigger chance of getting reviews/help/comments in the forum than in the portal.

would be a shame if you go away because you feel there is no place for you here, `cus there is.

At 7/24/09 06:27 AM, LegolaSS wrote: you should educate them in a little blurb under your picture telling them that all the lines / ideas and modeles where made from scratch...

Ok here goes ... this is my thought process behind 2 images I posted as my art. I am using external links at the moment because as you know it got deleted. (Sorry for the hassle)

Image 1

Inspiration - While on a recent holiday I went to the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona and took some pictures. The place felt like a building site but I can see where they are going with the style and it is amazing, the structure is a thing of design beauty. (My kind of art)

Source image - Sagrada Familia

I wanted to re-create something similiar in style to those columns but I wanted to use metal, not stone. I wanted something that was not as wispy and elegant as the stone one's, I wanted something hard angled, metal, solid, structural. So I created a set of 3 pronged metal support and then built the rest of the room around them! The column support I created felt like it could carry the weight of the world, the top of a tower, a colossal weight. I split the floor height so the viewer would concentrated straight ahead and added split angled windows (technical/future style but made of wood) with a view outside, hinting that this is part of something bigger. A structure perched high up on a rock cliff overlooking a misty valley towards red stained mountains.

My image - Metal hands

Image 2

Source Image - The Devil's Punchbowl

This is an environmental skybox I made a long time ago and is based on a actual place I use to walk on lazy sunday afternoons. A huge bowl or end point for a valley created by nature and with a long winding road acround the top. I imagine it would have been impossible to bridge and would have ruined the site as well. My skybox was a red mountain landscape with a huge deep hole below the viewer. Something cataclysmic happened at this place and the earth was torn away leaving only this forsaken gap. This was the sky/view outside the windows of the structure I was building but I did not want the place completely floating so I created a small section of terrain to skirt around the outside towers. The plants are taken from digital pictures I took and I added a soft effect to the alpha layer to make them wispy and dry. I added coloured lights to the base of the tower to create the illusion of dirt/sand on the texture edges. The outside is suppose to feel hot and the inside, dark and gloomy, the windows forming the border between the two worlds.

My Image : Outside view

Does this help?

At 7/24/09 07:10 AM, simonoc wrote: Ok here goes ... this is my thought process behind 2 images I posted as my art. I am using external links at the moment because as you know it got deleted. (Sorry for the hassle)

you can always post them through the art portal but dont tick the (show on art potal)... that way they wont get removed

Inspiration - While on a recent holiday I went to the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona and took some pictures.

with this infomation and infulences you can see what you have done and why... it gives the viewer more of an idea why it looks like that... i have to agree... iv been to barcelona and been round that massive building... its been a building site for years and years and i dout it will be finished in my life time :P... a good piece to base any building on :3

Does this help?

yes... its giving insight to why your doing your artwork... now you could either make your own thread showing your artwork in the art fourm where more mature (i lose that term loosely) artist will see them and respond giving you crit and trying to help you improve your artwork... or keep them to yourself on your profile untill newgrounds gets a more refined set of rules for the art portal... theres alot of grey areas and this art fits snuggly into it... i would recommend making a thread like JQB said and see where it takes you :3... dont be sorry for "wasiting" our time... your not... were here to help!

now... picture 1... i feel that the main focus is at the end of the room (into the next?) but theres nothing to focus on?... an altar or some other structal element would be a nice and fitting touch...

like a said before... i keep an open mind... this sort of art isnt really my thing but i try to see both sides of it... i wouldnt want you to stop making them beacuse of a couple of users bad mouthed it... keep up the work and show us all something truely amazing to shut us all up :3

At 7/22/09 08:25 AM, mansellscore wrote: I have ...a few ...quibbles about the Art Portal.

They banned Pencil Sketches!asside from my cartooning,i was actually gonna submit some of my pencil sketches.alright,who the hell came up with that?

Well,thank god for DeviantArt.

At 7/24/09 08:04 AM, Dexter3000 wrote: They banned Pencil Sketches!

Are you sure it wasnt just beacuse of the quality of your work?, sorry to be the bringer of bad news but it doesnt really match up agaisnt most of the work in the art portal...

who the hell came up with that?

Most likey no one has banned art sketches... i think that your "sketches" fit under the "doodle" catagory...

At 7/24/09 08:12 AM, LegolaSS wrote: Are you sure it wasnt just beacuse of the quality of your work?, sorry to be the bringer of bad news but it doesnt really match up agaisnt most of the work in the art portal...

Most likey no one has banned art sketches... i think that your "sketches" fit under the "doodle" catagory...

Thats are a fair point.and to be honest,i am aware that my art isn't up to the standards of the Art Portal.i was gonna submit some better art,ones i spent more time on.

what i meant by banned,was not aloud in the Art Portal itself.they did say that you can submit sketches,but they aren't aloud in the Portal itself.i was gonna submit more art i spent time on,but didn't,not only that,but i got banned because,(i think.) i scouted someone who apparently stole a piece of art.(i dont know how the heck i shoulda known...)

At 7/22/09 08:25 AM, mansellscore wrote:.
when no effort

lol, fave'd dat shit dawg

At 7/24/09 05:43 AM, simonoc wrote: This is not strictly true, all 3d packages can use existing models, even max/maya has a model import feature, how can you tell if someone submits an image here from max/maya and know if they created all the assets themselves? All the lines and nodes in my images were created by me from scratch no pre existing mapmodels were used. This is what modern day (unreal, idtech, cryengine, lithtech) game editors do, they give you pre-made objects and you just organize them into different setups. I know all this because my professional job is a level designer. (my website has full details of my professional work)

The only difference being that we at least know that levels created with editors are usually made of prefab materials. While i think we can all agree that setting up levels its amazingly tedious work, and can be considered art. We really would prefer if all of the art created for the portal consists of completely original hand crafted works. there's a big difference between creating a building from a cube, and editing a pre-existing building to fit your needs. Not to mention the floodgate of modifed art that would have to be allowed if we accepted your work.

Modified sprites.
photo shopped sigs
dress up games,
re-textured game models. The list goes on and on.

I feel the only way this rule would ever change is if you used the editor to create art above and beyond what you would see from a level editor.

I look at your images. and all I see is a level from quake or unreal, its a new level created with prefabs. Its creative for sure, and it may be art to you, but its not the type of art we would like to see in the portal.

At 7/24/09 07:00 PM, MindChamber wrote: I look at your images. and all I see is a level from quake or unreal, its a new level created with prefabs. Its creative for sure, and it may be art to you, but its not the type of art we would like to see in the portal.

Thanks for the clarification, time for me to exit stage left. Good luck with the portal.
Later
Simonoc

Previously, one of my art threads were locked. I abided ( correct?) the rules, and I don't know why. Clafication is needed. Thanks.

At 7/24/09 08:07 PM, chowderbalboa wrote: Clafication is needed. Thanks.

You go first.

At 7/24/09 07:46 PM, simonoc wrote:

At 7/24/09 07:00 PM, MindChamber wrote: I look at your images. and all I see is a level from quake or unreal, its a new level created with prefabs. Its creative for sure, and it may be art to you, but its not the type of art we would like to see in the portal.

Thanks for the clarification, time for me to exit stage left. Good luck with the portal.
Later
Simonoc

your choice, you could always post in the forums and still get crits, but I'm not gonna beg you to.
later

I'm sort of frustrated.

Let's not turn that into some cry for pity or some shit, it's a request for help.

I've made alot of entries into my doodle thread (the link is in my sig). I might not have made it clear that I wanted criticism, but that's what I'm looking for.

What I've gotten is unsatisfactory. I want to improve, but I can't figure out how. I know for a fact that self teaching and gradual improvement works so slowly, it's head smashingly maddening.

And all I've gotten from DA is positive comments and random single people fav'ing things, or adding it to collections. Stupid hugbox site.

Maybe I'm better than I think, but I refuse to think that I'm nearly as good as "good" qualifies as around here.

This is getting too ranty, but as I said, I'm sort of confused and pissed.

When people post good stuff, people comment on it. When people post bad stuff, people criticize it so that the person can get better.

Barely anybody has commented on my doodle thread (I refuse to call it art), so I don't know how it is among the general community opinion. I feel like "Oh, it's enough so it isn't horrid, but it certainly isn't enough to make a fuss about," which drives me insane.

If the thread content is specifically not meant to include senseless banter from a barely sane person, there's been a failure on my part.

At 7/24/09 10:55 PM, Kurofelis wrote: I'm sort of frustrated.

I'm not much of a critiquer myself... but it's kind of hard to really say much about 'doodles' like that. Nothing really seems finished. You need to commit to one piece and complete it... completely! Then maybe people will be able to give some input.

or maybe I'm not completely sane either... who knows!

I don't get it...
are we expanding to the general forum now?

At 7/24/09 11:59 PM, Fleshlight wrote: I don't get it...
are we expanding to the general forum now?

oh, shush! ...I messed up, ok! :P