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Forum Topic: Help for an epic song

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This topic is 2 pages long. [ 1 | 2 ]

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/28/08 02:38 PM

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Well hello everybody!
I don't post very often here but this time I realy need help!!
As you may notice by visiting my profile page, I mainly do metal songs.
But I've always wanted to do one thing: a freakin epic stuff!!

Here's how I see it: it's slow at the begining, then fast, then slower, then fast again and it would suddenly end like this.

Yeah I know it sounds very approximative said like that, but it's all clear in my mind :)
I just need some inspiration! I would like something like a pirate theme, you see? But I only know "He's A Pirate" (from the Pirates of the Carribbean movie)!!

Please help me, give me some song titles, bands or even little riffs you think would be great to use (I just need something to start with)!!

I've got GPO, and I'm getting EWQLSO Silver Edition so don't worry, I've got good stuff to work with :)

Just help me getting started!


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Psybot

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Posted at: 1/28/08 02:42 PM

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This is a song that might give you inspiration. ^^

good luck

I wanna thank Mydnite for creating my awsome sig!

And be sure to check out my music ^^

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/28/08 02:48 PM

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At 1/28/08 02:42 PM, Psybot wrote: This is a song that might give you inspiration. ^^

good luck

Well erm, it's far from what I want to do! The melody is cool, that's true, but it's too electronic you see?
It would rather look like something like this!
So if you could help me find some more, it would be great! :)


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Psybot

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Posted at: 1/28/08 02:55 PM

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dang!

sorry. i have never heard anything like that on the portal.

But that is some damn good shit!

thx for showing me ^^

I wanna thank Mydnite for creating my awsome sig!

And be sure to check out my music ^^

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/28/08 03:06 PM

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Well glad you liked it! :)
But I'm still in lack of inspiration!
:(


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Rig

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Posted at: 1/28/08 03:27 PM

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Something like this? It's something me, DarKsidE555, and MaestroRage are working on.


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Nintechno

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Posted at: 1/28/08 03:32 PM

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At 1/28/08 02:38 PM, TheRealSam wrote: But I've always wanted to do one thing: a freakin epic stuff!!

-Havent we all?

Here's how I see it: it's slow at the begining, then fast, then slower, then fast again and it would suddenly end like this.

-You mean with build ups? nice, well would the temo accualy get faster? or would the music just have more in it and just, happen faster (like in 'Up for an adventure?').

Yeah I know it sounds very approximative said like that, but it's all clear in my mind :)

-With strings? Are you thinking of a Classical style?

I just need some inspiration! I would like something like a pirate theme, you see? But I only know "He's A Pirate" (from the Pirates of the Carribbean movie)!!

-I can help you out with just about EVERY song from those movies, if you want it...

...The way i see it, is that you would like to do a song worthy of POTC 4. Now, as hard as that sounds, i think the best way to start would be to analize 'Hez a Pirate' and make your own bassline/chord sequence. From there, you will be able to come up with a fitting melody, which you can add to with different instuments to creat a real awesome song!

The main point that im trying to put across here, is that ALL of the songs in POTC start with, and are based upon the note of D. 'He's a Pirate' is perfect proof of that. All of the different melodies in it begin withD, and stick closley to it, to create a jumpy, action-like song. If you too start with D, mabye you can achieve the same thing!

My Music | Me | F-777 | Kr1z | Audio Portal | For teh lulz ^^

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/28/08 03:56 PM

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Rig => That's awesome!!!! But what I wanna do is more like an "adventure" theme, for an action sequence! Epic and fast, with strings, piccolo, trumpets, orchestral drums and stuff! 6/4 (or 3/4) for the rhythm, and tempos around: 120-200-180-150-200 (or something like this).

Nintechno => That's the kind of post I expected! :) I think it will be very helpful to me!
You realy understood what I want to do, and gave great advices!
If you can give me other movies, or songs I can listen to, it would be awesome! :)


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Envy

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Posted at: 1/28/08 04:09 PM

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Like this only not a remix?

Blah

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/28/08 04:14 PM

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At 1/28/08 04:09 PM, Envy wrote: Like this only not a remix?

Blah

Yeah something like this! But with less piano and a less "jazzy" rhythm lol!


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InsaneSmilie

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Posted at: 1/28/08 04:46 PM

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Swashbuckle real Pirate Metal!

WUML Lowell 91.5 FM - Real Underground Radio

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/28/08 04:48 PM

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At 1/28/08 04:46 PM, InsaneSmilie wrote: Swashbuckle real Pirate Metal!

Loool that's freakin cool man, but it's far from what I want to do XD


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jrayteam6

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Posted at: 1/29/08 03:31 AM

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EPIC.

Your looking for huge string sounds, throw down a bunch of reverb, build your orchestra hits from scratch, write at 50% volume so your hits are HUGE and your quiets are quiet. Download all the orchestral percussion you can, you can never have enough crash's, splashes, cymbal rolls, falres, timpani licks( which should be heavy and aggressive, but rare and un provoked), and especially gongs. Chimes make stuff sound pretty even when you can barely hear them, they're important. Build tension with harmonic minor scales, use fast attack strings at c 3 c4 and c5 to move your TRIPLE OCTAVE brass lines along. When your ready for somthing to sound bigger and better and all else fails, transpose it up a few halfsteps after your audience is familliar with the phrase.

Use the fast attack strings at absurdly high octaves with quarter notes in the root note of your progressions to generate some high pitched nervous tension and to make your slow powerfull stuff drive along a little bit.

The key to the biggest hugest loudest louds, is to make your quiets realllly really quiet. Dont build tension if your not going to release it, and never EVER start a track with the heaviest hardest part. Take the time to make an intro to damn near everything. If your bringing in the strings to back up a melody, introduce them, dont just add them on the next repeat. When all else fails, before you get to that transpose idea I talked about earlier, hold everything for a beat. Just stop and let your cymbals fade and then transpose it and go into it.

Tempo is important, but not as important. Just remember that the bigger, heavier stuff needs to be slower, dont get me wrong, things like Williams's "The motorcycle Chase" are epic, but its epic because its almost tuneless. You want power epic, you want simple concepts, but they need to be complex and technical.

Just remember, you can NEVER overwrite and have to much going on - unless you dont slowly build up and introduce it.

But nothing is worse than listening to empty boring music with giant gongs and acoustic driving percussion.

Listen to how retardedly simple Hans Zimmers scores are. He's good because he has interesting and endless ways of filling in his gaps between his absurdly catchy main themes. John Williams, he's good because fuck i'm ranting.


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WritersBlock

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Posted at: 1/29/08 04:03 AM

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At 1/28/08 03:32 PM, Nintechno wrote: The main point that im trying to put across here, is that ALL of the songs in POTC start with, and are based upon the note of D. 'He's a Pirate' is perfect proof of that. All of the different melodies in it begin withD, and stick closley to it, to create a jumpy, action-like song. If you too start with D, mabye you can achieve the same thing!

If you want a more "general" template, you can follow Nintechno's advice, and also to know that:
Songs focused around D tend to have that epic touch to it, the D modal (all white notes) is a medieval scale, so it fits the theme well.
Technically, when something is focussed around a certain note, it is called "tonal centred" and implies that there is no tonality, but what Nintechno was getting at, is that the D note is the root (1st note) of the scale and is given extra importance, thus, the tune always comes back to the D. Also, as you said, epic songs tend to have different tempos. I just think this is that most of the time, they just have less notes and sustained over a longer time in the introduction. It's all build up, and then the more frequent notes give the appearance of a tempo change, and increases excitement. Also, if you can get a key change, that'll also increase tension, and add to the epic feel, most likely, a modulation to A natural minor would be best. And furthermore, it's good if you stray from the key signature from time to time and place an accidental here and there (although it'd be best if you kept them off the main beats). That's all the advice I can think of at the moment. I hope it helps.

|Factory|
My 100th submission, check it out!

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/30/08 01:59 PM

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jrayteam => Thank you sooo much for all your advices, I finaly have got the begining of something! :)
And about the songs you posted, the second one is very close to what I would like to do! I'm still seeking a good VST which could recreeate orchestral percussions!

WritersBlock => Thank you too, I think that what you said will help me finish my song (well "finish" isn't the right word :p)!
I just need to find more variations!


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MaestroRage

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Posted at: 1/30/08 02:37 PM

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At 1/29/08 03:31 AM, jrayteam6 wrote: THE FREAKIN DEFINITION

win and awesome my good man... win and freaking awesome. Learned a good deal myself this day!


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Name-Goes-Here

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Posted at: 1/30/08 09:02 PM

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You want epic? This is epic!


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joshhunsaker

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Posted at: 1/30/08 11:01 PM

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song title suggestion:
combat amoeba

(not my idea)

Blarhg


Elated

Nintechno

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Posted at: 1/31/08 04:43 AM

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At 1/28/08 03:56 PM, TheRealSam wrote: Nintechno => That's the kind of post I expected! :) I think it will be very helpful to me!

Really? Cool =)

You realy understood what I want to do, and gave great advices!

...I would like to think so.

If you can give me other movies, or songs I can listen to, it would be awesome! :)

I'm afraid that i dont know of any other songs that may help you APART from:
1. Anything by Hans Zimmer: As Composer of POTC songs, Gladiator, the last samurai, pearl Harbour ( i think), and a bunch more, there is no shortage of his songs that should provide inspiration for ya! Just jump onto iTunes music store and check out his stuff there.
2. The soundtrack of 'Transformers'. Composed by Steve Jablonsky (a studio-mate of Zimmer), it is probably one of my fav (not to mention epic) soundtracks around, so definitly worth checking out.

Apart from that, im afraid i cannot help much more, just try and come up with a chord sequence/melody that sounds good (you can upload a demo and ask around for myselfs and others opinions), and worry about all your instrument ideas, because, you could have all the great orchrestra sounds, but they would suck without the EPIC melody your looking for.

My Music | Me | F-777 | Kr1z | Audio Portal | For teh lulz ^^

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/31/08 07:53 AM

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Name-goes-here => Wow thank you, this rocks! That's not realy what I'd like to do, but it'll be a good source of inspiration for another song I'll make!

joshhunsaker => Are you giving me the title of a song to listen to or the title to give to my song? Because if you want me to name it that way, I firstly must finish it! XD

Nintechno => Well here's what I have so far! It's not that bad (well I think) but it ain't very cool either! I'll go get the soundtracks you gave me, I hope I'll find some inspiration in them :)


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jrayteam6

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Posted at: 1/31/08 10:14 AM

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Klause Badelt did POTC. Dont forget about Hans Zimmers bullshit ass "Media Ventures" alliance of composers. Basically he started a company where several composers worked on the movies he took. I think I remember reading that it was actually Trevor Rabin who wrote most of that catchy ass Armageddon theme who was working for Zimmer at the time. But like everyone else (Klause Badelt) Rabin finally gets his shit together and goes off on his own and went on to do Rember the Titans which is an amazingly overlooked score.

Seriously, Hans Zimmer is not as good as people think, he gets way too much credit.


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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/31/08 03:01 PM

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So, what do you all think of what I've done?


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Nintechno

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Posted at: 1/31/08 03:28 PM

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At 1/31/08 03:01 PM, TheRealSam wrote: So, what do you all think of what I've done?

Meh, will defintley sound better with non-midi version, so its okay for now i guess. Like the drums.

My Music | Me | F-777 | Kr1z | Audio Portal | For teh lulz ^^

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/31/08 03:49 PM

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At 1/31/08 03:28 PM, Nintechno wrote:
At 1/31/08 03:01 PM, TheRealSam wrote: So, what do you all think of what I've done?
Meh, will defintley sound better with non-midi version, so its okay for now i guess. Like the drums.

Well I've done a non-midi version using GPO and it sounds much better! But I still must find some good VST for the drums, because they don't sound very great... Anyway, I'll keep going and maybe one day I'll come out with something decent.


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Claxor

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Posted at: 1/31/08 04:01 PM

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At 1/31/08 03:49 PM, TheRealSam wrote: Well I've done a non-midi version using GPO and it sounds much better!

Mind sharing? :)
I liked what you posted, and hearing it GPO'd would be cool :D

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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 1/31/08 04:36 PM

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At 1/31/08 04:01 PM, Claxor wrote:
At 1/31/08 03:49 PM, TheRealSam wrote: Well I've done a non-midi version using GPO and it sounds much better!
Mind sharing? :)
I liked what you posted, and hearing it GPO'd would be cool :D

Well I won't post it now cuz I just don't have the time to mix it and as it ain't a final version, I don't want to either :p
So when I import the whole thing and give it some GPO sounds, although it sounds better, it still sounds unfinished and kinda crappy (well in my opinion). But don't worry, I just must finish the midi version first!


Questioning

Pure-Metal-UTA

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Posted at: 2/1/08 05:43 AM

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Here's a couple metal intstrumentals that might help:
Firewind - Fire and the Fury
Megadeth - Absolution
Hope I helped


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Pure-Metal-UTA

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Posted at: 2/1/08 05:46 AM

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Oh yeah, and instrument-wise, you'd probably want all of it... except vocals.
I'm saying all percussion: Timpani, Bells, Xylophone, a drumset!
You'll want a full orchestra simulation too!
and to top it all off: The main stuff in a metal band, rythem guitar, bass guitar, and lead guitar!


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TheRealSam

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Posted at: 2/1/08 06:53 AM

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At 2/1/08 05:46 AM, Pure-Metal-UTA wrote: Oh yeah, and instrument-wise, you'd probably want all of it... except vocals.
I'm saying all percussion: Timpani, Bells, Xylophone, a drumset!
You'll want a full orchestra simulation too!
and to top it all off: The main stuff in a metal band, rythem guitar, bass guitar, and lead guitar!

Well man I don't want any guitar in this song :p I want it to be a "full orchestral" stuff! And yeah, I know that I must find a drumkit! And orchestral drumkit! But I don't know where to find it...
And don't worry, I've got GPO, which works very well! I also have Magnus Choirs, this VST rocks!!
So thanks for your advices but I don't want to do an epic metal thing, just epic! :)


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