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At 3/24/08 01:54 AM, KemCab wrote: Exactly. Also, you really can't arrest 1,000 people for executing a DDoS attack on websites. Not to mention that you really don't know if the person you're arresting was even responsible because it could be a controlled zombie computer part of a botnet.

Also, there's nothing unlawful about opening a lot of socket connections or sending a whole bunch of packets.

I'm not entirely sure about that. I'm pretty sure that if it isn't against the law yet, it will be. It certainly could be filed under charges of harassment or some other already available crime. In all honesty, what will eventually happen is that an investigation will eventually be set up. The "ring leaders" will be singled out and made an example of in the hopes it sends a message that you can and will be punished. Then, they will try to arrest in mass if it continues to be a problem. Thats just the way government works. Slow, beurocratic (sp?), but eventually (hopefully) effective.

If attacks continue to happen on multimillion dollar businesses and religions, the money will be in the right place for things to happen faster.

At 4/7/08 09:49 AM, gumOnShoe wrote:
In all honesty, what will eventually happen is that an investigation will eventually be set up. The "ring leaders" will be singled out and made an example of in the hopes it sends a message that you can and will be punished. Then, they will try to arrest in mass if it continues to be a problem. Thats just the way government works. Slow, beurocratic (sp?), but eventually (hopefully) effective.

See, this is where i'll have to disagree. Anonymous has no 'ring leaders'. If one person falls another two will take his place. They can arrest anyone and everyone they like, but they can't defeat the idea. That's what the protests are about. Raising awareness to the general public of this fucking scamming cult. They aren't doing anything else wrong. Sure, the idiots at the very very start of the movement did some really silly shit with the DDOS attacks and whatnot, but now it's moved on and evolved into something even bigger and better. The world will know after the 12th if they haven't already taken notice of them. It's been steadilly growing larger and larger. On the twelth i suspect their numbers will hit about twenty maybe thirty thousand protesters in the majority of major cities in the world. Let's see them try and aresst that many participants.

If attacks continue to happen on multimillion dollar businesses and religions, the money will be in the right place for things to happen faster.

Attacks? When was the last time they were 'attacked'? At the start... That's not what they are about now. Peaceful protests against the so called 'religion' can garner a lot more attention than the idiots at the start ever could. Peaceful protests are being planned for as far down the line as July, right at this very minute. The more awareness they can get against the "Church" the more people will notice the more people will talk and ask questions.

Why are you so against innocent protests?

I was slightly misunderstood by you SCD, so I want to clarify what I was talking about and what I wasn't. In a seven page topic, it may be easy to misconstrue my earlier post, so I'm not really bothered. What I was talking about specifically are the "members" of anonymous who still do the DDOS'ing and pranks, not the protesters against Scientology. I was speaking more towards KemCab's brand of Anonymous.

At 4/7/08 04:24 PM, Slightly-Crazy-Dude wrote: See, this is where i'll have to disagree. Anonymous has no 'ring leaders'. If one person falls another two will take his place. They can arrest anyone and everyone they like, but they can't defeat the idea. That's what the protests are about. Raising awareness to the general public of this fucking scamming cult. They aren't doing anything else wrong. Sure, the idiots at the very very start of the movement did some really silly shit with the DDOS attacks and whatnot, but now it's moved on and evolved into something even bigger and better. The world will know after the 12th if they haven't already taken notice of them. It's been steadilly growing larger and larger. On the twelth i suspect their numbers will hit about twenty maybe thirty thousand protesters in the majority of major cities in the world. Let's see them try and aresst that many participants.

The problem is that there are still some hooligans inside of anonymous that do the stupid shit. I'd wager they are more of a minority, but it only takes one really stupid act on their part to draw the wrong kind of attention for everyone. On a smaller scale we could look at several of the Crews on Newgrounds. Most members are fun loving flash makers, but it only takes a few to mess it up for everyone and then another Wade fiasco starts up. Again, different worlds, but its a similar idea. Any group is judged by its lowest members and most heinous acts, unless they have spin power on the media.

As for the protests, if they are peaceful, they don't bother me. Everyone has a right to say what they want to, and I believe that for the Scientologists as well. If Scientology is guilty of fraud or some other federal crime then they should be brought to justice. Otherwise its up to groups like anonymous to inform the public and give them a 360 view instead of a one sided bias one. I have no problem with raising awareness, if thats all it is.

Attacks? When was the last time they were 'attacked'? At the start... That's not what they are about now. Peaceful protests against the so call ... Why are you so against innocent protests?

Meh, I think this is the stuff that was slightly misinterpreted. I don't know the full history, but I haven't heard of anonymous attacking Scientology of late and maybe only vaguely remember it happening in the past. I can think of tons of examples of raids and MySpace phishing though, and thats the stuff that will get a group like anonymous in trouble.

I don't know how the police would arrest that many people, but if they had to deal with it and violence ensued it would probably escalate to a riot and then what we always see happening during riots would happen again. Dogs, tear gas, fire hoses, and the like. If protests are approved by whatever zoning needs to happen and the police don't have to ask you to leave and everything remains peaceful, I don't see any problems ever ocuring. It all depends on the set up and how far mob mentality takes itself.

What's happening on the 12th? more protests? I remember once there was a huge hailstorm and they protested

Scientology deserves to have their freedom of speech blocked because they do the same to others.

At 4/8/08 02:38 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Scientology deserves to have their freedom of speech blocked because they do the same to others.

You do realize that this would ironically remove all freedom of speech across the world?

At 4/8/08 07:20 AM, Drakim wrote:

At 4/8/08 02:38 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Scientology deserves to have their freedom of speech blocked because they do the same to others.

You do realize that this would ironically remove all freedom of speech across the world?

Oh, you mean in like some big sort of chain reaction sort of thing? I see what you mean then.

Well, shh.

At 4/8/08 07:24 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 4/8/08 07:20 AM, Drakim wrote:

At 4/8/08 02:38 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Scientology deserves to have their freedom of speech blocked because they do the same to others.

You do realize that this would ironically remove all freedom of speech across the world?

Oh, you mean in like some big sort of chain reaction sort of thing? I see what you mean then.

Well, shh.

Yeah, it held a sort of "kill the killers!" thing over it. ^^

Anyways, that doesn't mean that there can't be other punishments for hindering freedom of speech, but it would be counter productive to remove the freedom of speech from the offender, as that is the very value you wished to protect.

At 4/8/08 07:41 AM, Drakim wrote: as that is the very value you wished to protect.

I see someone doesn't believe in 'hating the hater' or being intolerant of the intolerant'.

But, as always, you're right.

At 4/8/08 07:43 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 4/8/08 07:41 AM, Drakim wrote: as that is the very value you wished to protect.

I see someone doesn't believe in 'hating the hater' or being intolerant of the intolerant'.

Actually, I don't protect freedom of speech for them, but for myself. I don't treat my enemies nicely because I care about my enemies, but because I want to secure my own future.

But, as always, you're right.

DX

That was both nice and evil done at the same time.

At 4/7/08 07:13 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: I was slightly misunderstood by you SCD, so I want to clarify what I was talking about and what I wasn't. In a seven page topic, it may be easy to misconstrue my earlier post, so I'm not really bothered. What I was talking about specifically are the "members" of anonymous who still do the DDOS'ing and pranks, not the protesters against Scientology. I was speaking more towards KemCab's brand of Anonymous.

Ah right, well i did read this topic but it was late and i was tired, so i do apologise for missunderstanding what you said.

The problem is that there are still some hooligans inside of anonymous that do the stupid shit. I'd wager they are more of a minority, but it only takes one really stupid act on their part to draw the wrong kind of attention for everyone. On a smaller scale we could look at several of the Crews on Newgrounds. Most members are fun loving flash makers, but it only takes a few to mess it up for everyone and then another Wade fiasco starts up. Again, different worlds, but its a similar idea. Any group is judged by its lowest members and most heinous acts, unless they have spin power on the media.

Yeah i do agree, the orginisation is only as strong as it weakest member, thankfully, the group i know of don't have such idiotic people and this group organise the protests/awareness days/flyer days throughout the whole of Scotland, so i'm pretty pleased about that. They don't have such spin power over the media as yet, because quite frankly the CoS will always be able to throw more money at it than Anon will. Hopefully raising awareness and getting people to ask questions about them can save some innocent peoples lives.

As for the protests, if they are peaceful, they don't bother me. Everyone has a right to say what they want to, and I believe that for the Scientologists as well. If Scientology is guilty of fraud or some other federal crime then they should be brought to justice. Otherwise its up to groups like anonymous to inform the public and give them a 360 view instead of a one sided bias one. I have no problem with raising awareness, if thats all it is.

Oh we don't infringe on the rights of the CoS' belief system or their right to free speech, it's up to anyone to believe in what they like. Anon is protesting against the underhand tactics they use to keep people within their grasp. The disconnection policy, their 'fair play' policy which is an absolute joke by the way. All Anon does is protest, we harm no one. On the 15th in Edinburgh last month the police were very happy to help us protest as long as it was peaceful, and we were glad to have them there to help protect against the CoS' dirty handed tactics. They video tape Anon, they hire private investigators to try and reveal our identities and then prosecute us. Prosecute us for protesting? Now i don't need to tell you how dirty that is.

Meh, I think this is the stuff that was slightly misinterpreted. I don't know the full history, but I haven't heard of anonymous attacking Scientology of late and maybe only vaguely remember it happening in the past. I can think of tons of examples of raids and MySpace phishing though, and thats the stuff that will get a group like anonymous in trouble.

See, i know of what you speak. That's the *Chans for you though. Now, it's completely different. It all started as a few idiot geeks sitting in their basements fucking around with other peoples computers. Now it's a world wide movement, and the best thing about it is, we don't associate with that 'brand' of Anonymous anymore despite what the CoS want you to beleive. If you don't know the full back story to this, hit up some anti-scientology pages and i'm sure you'll come back with a more well rounded look at things and maybe understand why Anon is doing what it's doing.

I don't know how the police would arrest that many people, but if they had to deal with it and violence ensued it would probably escalate to a riot and then what we always see happening during riots would happen again. Dogs, tear gas, fire hoses, and the like. If protests are approved by whatever zoning needs to happen and the police don't have to ask you to leave and everything remains peaceful, I don't see any problems ever ocuring. It all depends on the set up and how far mob mentality takes itself.

I disagree, if the police wanted us to move, we'd move, it's that simple. We're not there to cause trouble. However if the CoS start their underhand tactics like they did at Atlanta with them phoning the riot cops and getting some Anons arrested and held with a large bail; Anon will be more wary about certain things.

Anonymous is capable of doing the world a greater good here, they really do need as much help they can get. I for one will help as much as i can peacefully.

At 4/8/08 02:38 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Scientology deserves to have their freedom of speech blocked because they do the same to others.

Operation Reconnect.

Sorry about the double post.

At 4/8/08 08:29 AM, Slightly-Crazy-Dude wrote:

At 4/8/08 02:38 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Scientology deserves to have their freedom of speech blocked because they do the same to others.

Operation Reconnect.

I do apologise, that reply was intended for Whaaat or something. I'm in a rush :S

Sorry about the triple post.

Yeah i do believe that Anonymous has the right to do what they are doing, and are doing something good from doing it. We as Americans have the right to do this.

Anon is actually taking this to great heights and are taking this seriously over what started as a stupid argument over that Tom Cruise video. BUt they are fighting against censorship on the internet, which people have no right to censor.

But this can prove that /b/tards aren't just stupid little kids, but that they are actually intelligent people that use /b/ to escape from their everyday boring lives

At 1/25/08 08:02 PM, SolInvictus wrote: they have a goal to stop scientology's 'propoganda'. as much as i think scientology is a load of bullshit, groups like them have a right to produce as much 'propaganda' as they want.

killing and theft arent protected by the constitution, dickless.

I don't really care, it isn't affecting me in any way.

If you go on 4chan, most /b/tards don't approve of the protests and label protesters newfags.

So there you go.

At 4/7/08 05:07 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: anonymous is in the right

You might think so, but the Secret Service sees the group as a criminal organization, and hackers are very dangerous. There are other ways to protest that do not involve felonies.

At 4/9/08 05:47 PM, Nezzadar wrote:

At 4/7/08 05:07 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: anonymous is in the right

You might think so, but the Secret Service sees the group as a criminal organization, and hackers are very dangerous. There are other ways to protest that do not involve felonies.

Felonies? Either you're very jaded on this topic or you're trolling the politics forum. A huge majority of Anonymous' alleged crimes were fabricated by the CoS in a video that was made to cater to patrons of their religion. In the beginning of the movement, when it was a raid there was obviously some undesirable activity, but it's no longer a chan related incident. It's gotten huge, bigger than the xenophobes that harbor 4chan could ever hope for.

The lack of organization in the group is both a strength and a weakness, it's difficult for the Scientologists to declare fair game on a leaderless mass with no true identification. Yet at the same time they can't disassociate themselves from the idiots who decide to call in a bomb threat or make prank calls.

Lastly to respond to those who say it's an attempt to suppress free speech or freedom of religion you need look no further than the people of Germany who were smart enough to keep the 'church' from being considered a legitimate religion. In the United States they are not taxed due to the religion status but they are nonetheless an organization that profits off it's members which is rather unconstitutional in itself.

At 4/10/08 02:58 PM, hitlerisgod wrote: And um, what's so wrong about "hacking", if you can even call it that? They were just DDoS'ing and causing grief to the Church en masse by taking sites down and prank call flooding them.

Thats called harassment and probably falls under many other categories of infringement on the law. I'm not entirely sure what laws specifically, but this site here recommends contacting the FBI, which as we know got involved when requested a few years ago by Eric Ebaum when his site underwent DDoS'ing. DDoS'ing is a crime:
" Many organizations can suffer financial loss as a result of a denial-of-service attack and may wish to pursue criminal or civil charges against the intruder. For legal advice, we recommend that you consult with your legal counsel and law enforcement.

U.S. sites interested in an investigation of a denial-of-service attack can contact their local FBI field office for guidance and information. For contact information for your local FBI field office, please consult your local telephone directory or see the FBI's contact information web page:

- - - http://www.fbi.gov/contactus.htm

Non-U.S. sites may want to discuss the activity with their local law enforcement agency to determine the appropriate steps that should be taken with regard to pursuing an investigation.

If you are interested in determining the source of certain types of denial-of-service attack, it may require the cooperation of your network service provider and the administration of the networks involved. Tracking an intruder this way may not always be possible. If you are interested in trying do to so, contact your service provider directly. The CERT(*) Coordination Center is not able to provide this type of assistance. We do encourage you to report your experiences, however. This helps us understand the nature and scope of security incidents on the Internet, and we may be able to relate your report to other activity that has been reported to us. "

http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/denial_of_
service.html

I believe chanology will have a serious effect on the credibility of scientology, but on the other hand the anonymous are just planning their attack on scientology all wrong. They needed to have more credibility on their side. Because of the Hacking attacks on epilepsy sites people won't support them nearly as much as they would have wanted. So it could go either way especially with the public protests at the churches.

The next protest is today (April 12). Anyone going?

And to think, if these people actually voted...

At 4/12/08 02:55 AM, Masterchief2219 wrote: The next protest is today (April 12). Anyone going?

I would, if I knew where the closest protest was located.

At 4/12/08 03:24 AM, LordJaric wrote:

At 4/12/08 02:55 AM, Masterchief2219 wrote: The next protest is today (April 12). Anyone going?

I would, if I knew where the closest protest was located.

http://forums.enturbulation.org/60-april -12th-protest/

Just by coincidence, I came across some photos of the protests on deviantART. (Link.)

It really creeped me out, since I just started reading about Project Chanology on Wikipedia earlier today. By the way, how long as Anonymous had their own Wikipedia article?

At 4/12/08 10:19 PM, subpar wrote: Just by coincidence

;
I was out to the city with Family & friends...
Someone mentioned a great line...............................
Ask A CHristian About their 'god' & they will show you "their" book!
Ask A Muslim & they will sholl you" their "scroll/Book.
Ask a Scientologisrt & they will tell you as soon as your check clears !!!!!