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At 1/20/08 12:09 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 1/20/08 11:31 AM, D2Kvirus wrote:
There may not be an obvious group, but the Christian viewpoint is the strongest influence on British politics and media, just like in the US.

I know you're a sensible guy, but I just think this is a case of atheist paranoia, I can't see any major Christian influence on mainstream British Politics.

The amount of times Tony Blair used the word "evil" in relation to 9/11, al-Qu'eda, Iraq, Saddam, Islam and the various attacks on London displays the strong Christian influence. David cameron has used the word in similar circumstances, whilst talking of "Conservative values" and "Conservative belief."

It's isn't Athiest Paranoia, it's reading between the lines.

Look at it this way: Conservatism denotes Christianity, and at the moment both the main parties are preaching Conservative politics - a rather literal example of singing from the same hymnbook.

I mean just ask yourself, do our elections come down to:

"Abortions! Yes or No?"

Abortions became legal in the UK in 1967, but remains illegal in Northern Ireland - that is a long time after it was made legal in Sweden (thirty years prior), Germany (forty years prior), and Russia (nearly fifty years).

Alos, the results of a recent MORO poll indicate that attitudes to abortion, if anything, are getting less liberal.

And, more recently, we have had US-inspired anti-abortion groups begin to campaign likethe groups that have inspired them. Not to the level of the US groups (yet - I bet they're cursing the ban of the sale of firearms as I type). And, wost of all, they are thinking of starting their own political party.

Here's their website:
http://www.uklifeleague.com/

We don't get massive media battles like the yanks have with their Terry Schiavos; face it. The Christian influence in Britain has hollowed to a far greater extent than the one in America.

I mean in the last election in Scotland there were three well-funded Christian Political Parties who couldn't get an MSP between them.

That doesn't stop members of the Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat or Scottish Nationalist parties being Christian.

The Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament is a Conservative, by the way.

As above - it's influence is as strong as ever.

I have to disagree.

Take a look at that topic posted earlier, the one about "anti-Islam crime" or whatever the terminology was: that's an example of the Christian focus - Islam are presented as the "Other" and Jacqui Smith is presented as being wrong for not damning the anti-Christian practices.

Even the National Curriculum is Christiano-centric. In the five years I did at school, all I eas taught about other religions was:
Judaism: They got rounded up and killd in the 1930s-40s.
Islam: Women cannot touch the Koran.
Protestant: Some guy nailed a list of demands to a church door once.

Seriously, that was it - the rest was focusing on the usual Christian fables. We weren't even taught about Athiesm, FFS.

And don't get me started on faith schools and, in the UK, faith universities.

He's Church of Scotland, which is as Christian as the Anglican church.

Of course, this won't stop the next PM being an Anglican.

I'm just saying, if everyone in England gave such a fuck about the Church of England they'd know that the Church of Scotland is massively different in terms of the basic fundamentals.

It isn't as if the PM is a Jew/Muslim/Buddhist/Seikh/Athiest - he's just from another wing of Christianity.

The Queen isn't even the head of the Church of Scotland, it's a presbyterian Church.

Do they share similar and/or core beliefs to the Anglican church?

The roots of the CofS can be traced to the introduction of Christianity to Scotland, indeed they were formed within 25 years of each other.

The Anglican Church is theologically closer to the Catholic Church than it is to the Church of Scotland - but because we use words like "Catholic" and "Protestant" to lump people together, everyone is generally too ignorant to notice.

Both separated from the Catholic Church, both use elements of Protestantism in their teachings, and both lean towards a conservative outllok - the similarities are notable there.

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At 1/19/08 11:09 PM, Grammer wrote: I don't know, I'm only saying that you have no right to claim you have even the mental capacity to try to figure out what God is thinking, and why.

I just don't like the idea that, "Oh god is above what your mind can even contemplate", which, I can see would be fair, but then on the other foot we are supposed to believe and worship and obey him, even though we can't understand what he is all about.

Then stop damn complaining.

wah, grammer won't debate me so im gonna make fun of him for not wanting to argue the same damn points ad nauseum

Grammer: "Wah I've got better things to do with my time than fucking debate atheist morons liek you all day wah"
Me: "Then don't, perhaps?"
Grammer: "STFU I'll post if I god damned want to you little fag"

Fuck. Off.

Your the one who apparently wants to.

Religion shouldn't be up for debate. It's literally like arguing over which is better, the color red, or blue. John makes the argument that blue is better because it's used more often and is the popular choice.

So what you're saying is, "Hey, we don't have to justify our beliefs; you can't argue about religion so don't", and then the next breath "Oh and Gay marriage is against God's will kk"

Hopefully you do too and don't end up like some dick such as Richard Dawkins

I'm willing to bet you've never completely read a book by Dawkins of seen one of his Q & A's with Christians, because if you had, you would have seen that he is not a dick at all, and is amazingly tolerant considering he receives threats of violence daily.

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"Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry."

AH! I see a thumping good sequel to "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" on the horizon.

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At 1/20/08 06:50 PM, EKublai wrote: "Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry."

AH! I see a thumping good sequel to "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" on the horizon.

Well marriage is the union of lovers, and was originally a religious thing. I really don't have anything to say to that other than any atheist who marries is no atheist.

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Red is better than blue, God loves us, and gays and jews are abominations unto God that must be burned in extermination camps. Hey, you just can't debate about some stuff, I don't have to justify this. Now bring me some more wood.

Religion doesn't have to be disproved any more then elves need to be disproved. Thankfully, we don't see people bombing abortion clinics, or protesting gays' right to marry or adopt children because of a belief in elves.

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At 1/20/08 08:00 PM, Hedwick wrote: Well marriage is the union of lovers, and was originally a religious thing. I really don't have anything to say to that other than any atheist who marries is no atheist.

I think you're getting Atheism mixed up with pure Irreligion. While the two are asscociated, Atheism means that you don't believe in a creator who still holds sway today. Irreligion means that you dissagree with the concept of an established religion.

Atheistic Religions
Buddhism
Hinduism
Jainism
Taoism
Humanistic Judaism

All of these have their own religious ceremonies and if there were such a couple in the U.S, they would theoretically be able to marry under the terms of their religion.

Also, consider that Atheists are still heavily scutinized and for Christian Atheists it is sometimes of utmost importance for the their families to see them get marriage in a Christian Church. The fact that most atheists don't mind having religious connections attached to their marriage only shows that most atheists are accepting of being the minority (most because like every other position and religion, there are radicals. And like Libertarians, like conspiracy theorists, atheists tend to use the internet to get their otherwise unheard opinion across) Of course categorizing atheism with conspiracy theorists is obviously unfair but I couldn't think of another example.