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At 3/23/10 08:38 PM, HeavyTank wrote: That's what most of the unlocks are for...replace a big weakness with another one..
(in my example's case, less damage but instant lock-on)...

Maybe initially, but not anymore. Now it seems to be more about changing the playstyle of a class, rather than changing weaknesses. For example, the demoman is now a close-combat class when equipped with the Eyelander, as opposed to before when he was anything but.

My current idea is VALVe releasing let's say new buildables and a shotgun replaceable,

BUT aside of them, VALVe should give a power-suit for the engie.
That power suit would replace all other items(the engie has to build it at the start of a round with 600 metal).
When he enters this suit he cannot exit.
Suit attributes should be:

-250hp
-for weapons a lv2 sentry's machine gun(with decreased knockback)
-10% walking speed
-He can deploy instantly a lv2 dispenser but only this until the dispenser dies.
-He can only be healed by dispensers, but he is able to remove sappers instantly with right click on a sapped building.
-(The dispenser is taunt-made in front of the engi, let's say he just throws a small box on the ground that becomes dispenser).
-His machine gun has no ammo but overheats.
He cannot be backstabed but if a spy saps him his gun overheats 50% faster, he is 20% slower and he gets 20% more damage. He can only be unsapped if he waits 30 seconds or a fellow engie breaks his sapper. Also, if the spy saps him and shoots him he has 40% more damage on him so we should not lower spy effectiveness.
-And if headshoted he goes to 1 hp but not dies instantly.

So how do you thnk of my idea?

At 3/24/10 03:45 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: I like the whole mech idea but...

-10% walking speed

Wut. Seriously, 66% speed for Heavy already feels like a tortoise, let alone something walking at 10% speed. Also, 1 HP left for headshots? That's pretty bullshit, since it's extremely unfair towards Snipers.

At 3/24/10 04:50 AM, ParadoxVoid wrote:

At 3/24/10 03:45 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: I like the whole mech idea but...

-10% walking speed

Wut. Seriously, 66% speed for Heavy already feels like a tortoise, let alone something walking at 10% speed. Also, 1 HP left for headshots? That's pretty bullshit, since it's extremely unfair towards Snipers.

I said -10% walking speed=90% of as fast as engie is now. Also, if you have the rifle, it is quite easy to just re-shoot him once but anyway you can remove the headshot thingie.

Also, some days before the engineer update, the engineer speaks to all his teammates promising that he won't desert them (without dispensers and teles) and that he will never abandon them :D

At 3/24/10 05:31 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: I said -10% walking speed=90% of as fast as engie is now. Also, if you have the rifle, it is quite easy to just re-shoot him once but anyway you can remove the headshot thingie.

By that logic he would have -250 HP, when he's only got 125 health to begin with. :/ You used dashes to signify the beginnings of points.

Anyway, he's probably a bit OP, tbh. Maybe building him uses 200 metal, and then every second it drains more metal from the engi's resevoir. That would mean he'd occasionally have to jump out to pick up ammo, which opens up the weakness of the weapon?

At 3/23/10 11:04 PM, ParadoxVoid wrote: Maybe initially, but not anymore. Now it seems to be more about changing the playstyle of a class, rather than changing weaknesses. For example, the demoman is now a close-combat class when equipped with the Eyelander, as opposed to before when he was anything but.

Yeah, you're right, but I don't see how VALVe can completely change the playstyle of the engie without messing up the other classes...I mean, offensive or defensive, he still builds stuff.
The demo change was a pretty awesome one, but I dunno if they can pull it off a second time..

At 3/24/10 03:45 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: My current idea is VALVe releasing let's say new buildables and a shotgun replaceable,

Sentry replacement-shotgun (or wrench) and pistol replacement.That would be pretty good.

BUT aside of them, VALVe should give a power-suit for the engie.

W-w-w-w-wait, whaaaat?

That power suit would replace all other items(the engie has to build it at the start of a round with 600 metal).
When he enters this suit he cannot exit.

That's a pretty weird start...and building it would be extra-tedious...especially when you have to do it every time you respawn..

Suit attributes should be:

-250hp

gfdsdfgh

-for weapons a lv2 sentry's machine gun(with decreased knockback)

lul

-10% walking speed
-He can deploy instantly a lv2 dispenser but only this until the dispenser dies.

I see

-He can only be healed by dispensers, but he is able to remove sappers instantly with right click on a sapped building.

Not bad, not bad

-(The dispenser is taunt-made in front of the engi, let's say he just throws a small box on the ground that becomes dispenser).

That fits perfectly the style of the game.

-His machine gun has no ammo but overheats.

I dunno about that..infinite ammo is a bit too much for me.
Also, it would be better if he just had, say, 300 ammo, and can only be healed by a small amount by large ammo packs, and can only recover ammo by going near HIS dispenser..

He cannot be backstabed but if a spy saps him his gun overheats 50% faster, he is 20% slower and he gets 20% more damage. He can only be unsapped if he waits 30 seconds or a fellow engie breaks his sapper. Also, if the spy saps him and shoots him he has 40% more damage on him so we should not lower spy effectiveness.

Good idea

-And if headshoted he goes to 1 hp but not dies instantly.

So how do you thnk of my idea?

Well, I still don't know how would that work out in-game, but it's certainly a very good idea...
Maybe a more "conservative" version would be better...like the one Abe is wearing in the pic.

At 3/24/10 09:04 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

Well, I still don't know how would that work out in-game, but it's certainly a very good idea...
Maybe a more "conservative" version would be better...like the one Abe is wearing in the pic.

Well, I had been thinking it more as a Big Daddy-like suit:/

At 3/24/10 09:11 AM, TiberiumCrystalKutu wrote: Well, I had been thinking it more as a Big Daddy-like suit:/

Yah, I know what you're talking about, but it would be a bit too much.
Plus, the engie wouldn't be short anymore ;)

I think Engi could use different types of sentries, like a rocket sentry or a flamethrower sentry. Rockets move slowly, but deal as much as damage as Soldier's rockets do. Flamethrowers have a short range of fire, therefore best when built in corners or narrow spots. Ice sentries and electric sentries would be also cool. Both have a short range of fire, by the way.

Ice sentries deal no damage, but greatly slow down the target for 5 seconds or so. At this point, they take twice as more damage from all melee attacks. The target will be shattered into pieces if killed by a melee weapon. Also note that pyros can thaw their teammates, but not themselves.

Electric sentries fire a "thunder" on the target. They deal very small damage (-5HP or so), but the target, due to the shock, will be unable to use any weapons for like, 4 seconds. However, perhaps due to the adrenaline boost from the shock, the target moves slightly faster until the shock wears off, enabling them to outrun their enemies. So, scouts won't have much trouble with these sentries.

Only one of these sentries can be equipped by the Engi at a time, alongside the normal sentry. As a downside, equipping one of these might have Engi carry less metal or something.

Sometimes, none if you make any sense.

I predict the Update will appear late April/Early May - Out of the way of the L4D2/L4D1 DLC and before Portal 2 appears.

At 3/24/10 11:54 AM, mrty wrote: I think Engi could use different types of sentries, like a rocket sentry or a flamethrower sentry. Rockets move slowly, but deal as much as damage as Soldier's rockets do. Flamethrowers have a short range of fire, therefore best when built in corners or narrow spots. Ice sentries and electric sentries would be also cool. Both have a short range of fire, by the way.

Ice sentries deal no damage, but greatly slow down the target for 5 seconds or so. At this point, they take twice as more damage from all melee attacks. The target will be shattered into pieces if killed by a melee weapon. Also note that pyros can thaw their teammates, but not themselves.

Electric sentries fire a "thunder" on the target. They deal very small damage (-5HP or so), but the target, due to the shock, will be unable to use any weapons for like, 4 seconds. However, perhaps due to the adrenaline boost from the shock, the target moves slightly faster until the shock wears off, enabling them to outrun their enemies. So, scouts won't have much trouble with these sentries.

Only one of these sentries can be equipped by the Engi at a time, alongside the normal sentry. As a downside, equipping one of these might have Engi carry less metal or something.

-Rocket sentry would make no sense. The regular lvl 3 sentry already does more damage your just slowing it down.
-Flamethrower sentry would hardly be useful for anything else besides 2fort. Not a lot of corners in other maps and even then once the enemy feels the flames they would back right behind the corner, proving it useless.
-Ice sentry has the same problem.
-Electric sentry just sounds like a sandman with improved accuracy in exchange for speed and range for the victim.

At 3/24/10 07:30 PM, Sweeper128 wrote: Sometimes, none if you make any sense.

I lol'd when I read this.Try to find why.

I predict the Update will appear late April/Early May - Out of the way of the L4D2/L4D1 DLC and before Portal 2 appears.

Uh, yay?

Why the fuck did I even mention the PDQ.

I regret doing so.

imo Valve is focusing on making some sort of offensive gameplay style for the engie, if not it'd be cool if he had a weapon that had heaps of health and armor (but was harder to repair or something,) that could weaken/freeze/stun/slow/delay the enemy and allow team mates to fire at them or something, something like that would be cool anyway.

At 3/24/10 08:22 PM, HeavyTank wrote:

At 3/24/10 07:30 PM, Sweeper128 wrote: Sometimes, none if you make any sense.

I lol'd when I read this.Try to find why.

Har-de-har slipped key...

I need to play again, my Steam Rating is probably critically low...

I keep having ideas about what Engi needs in the update, and I wish to keep them coming. HeavyTank, do you remember your camera idea? Well, my idea is quite similar to that. A buildable security camera which extends itself to the ceiling, decreasing it's chances of getting noticed. This camera makes a beeping sound when it detects an enemy, which can only be heard of the Engi who built it. Followed by the beeping sound, whoever caught on camera will be heard, even cloaked enemy spies (e.g. 2 enemy soldiers and a pyro detected), buying time for the Engi to prepare. I'm not sure how much of a good idea it is, especially considering that pyros rely heavily on ambushes, which would be ruined by the cameras, and that spies already have enough trouble with all the spy checking enemies.

I don't want them to change buildings at all, just give the Engineer some new wrenches ala the Spy update.

Offensive Engineer Wrench
(+) 1.5x build speed
(-) 1.5x metal needed to upgrade

for those annoying bastards that like dropping Lv1s on the frontlines and shotgunning people

Maintence Engineer Wrench
(+) 1.5x less metal needed for repair work
(+) Only needs to hit once to knock off Sappers
(-) Significant damage loss against people

for TEAMWORK engineers

and like a shotgun i guess
that... i dunno
does stuff
like uh
more damage against high HP foes, less against low HP foes
or something
makes frontline engies do moar work

At 3/25/10 08:07 PM, SapphireLight wrote: I don't want them to change buildings at all, just give the Engineer some new wrenches ala the Spy update.

These are perhaps some of the best ideas I've heard of so far.

At 3/25/10 08:07 PM, SapphireLight wrote: I don't want them to change buildings at all, just give the Engineer some new wrenches ala the Spy update.

Offensive Engineer Wrench
(+) 1.5x build speed
(-) 1.5x metal needed to upgrade

for those annoying bastards that like dropping Lv1s on the frontlines and shotgunning people

Maintence Engineer Wrench
(+) 1.5x less metal needed for repair work
(+) Only needs to hit once to knock off Sappers
(-) Significant damage loss against people

for TEAMWORK engineers

and like a shotgun i guess
that... i dunno
does stuff
like uh
more damage against high HP foes, less against low HP foes
or something
makes frontline engies do moar work

Heh, do you really think that they're going to put some minor changes in the game in the very last clas update?
Please.
Mrty, your idea isn't bad, although the beeping sounds should be heard by everyone..maybe a camera that can spot targets in a specific area (when you upgrade it it has a bigger AOE), making them visible through walls and receive minicrits...bad news is, no sentry for the engie... :P

Minor? that shit ain't minor

At 3/25/10 11:08 PM, SapphireLight wrote: Minor? that shit ain't minor

It is, when you compare it to sticky/targe, shotgun/banned etc.

At 3/26/10 07:30 AM, HeavyTank wrote: It is, when you compare it to sticky/targe, shotgun/banned etc.

I wonder if Valve will actually implement many new buildings if any though. Like they said, the Engineer has such a large footprint in the game - a good engi can basically make or break a game, similar to a Medic, though perhaps not nearly as rewarding. I can't blame Valve if they don't want to mess around with the tried-and-tested formula too much.

Personally, I just hope the new maps they include are good. The ones included in the War update were a little lacklustre to be honest.

I wanted to say that... look at all VALVe "new" weapons. They have something fun on them(for e.x. the buff banner is a lol flag from a soldier or the sandvich, is well a SANDVICH:D ). I bet we should stop saying about hi tech robots and elemental sentries and just try and think what would be fun(like a sentry throwing Wooden Bull Heads because engie is from Texas:D

Plus, I bet VALVe will want to make the update rememberable, like all updates so it may publish new weapons that may seem OP for the engie at april fools day, pick up the LHIUODJA OPPPPPPPPP comments and then release the new updates, or imo it would be better if they do...

ENGI WARS. Maps where engies build their sentries on small platforms they drive via a drivnig wheel in a protected platform section so they fight each other :D

Here's my ideas for the Engie's update.

Fake sentry-
A level one sentry that you build but when it is sapped,it causes an explosion and makes the Spy die.
Pros-
Unsappable
Gets enemy spies away

Cons-
Explosions do 1/2 of the sentry's Max health
Stuck at Level 1

OR-
Flame Sentry-
A sentry with 2 of The Pyro's flamethrowers rigged on it. It can hit spies if it sees them uncloak, and when sapped will blast them with a tiny bit of flame, making them noticeable.

Pros-
Spy-Away protection
Burns the Spah

Cons-
They can uncloak offscreen
Short range flamethrower

OR...
Doubler(shtogun upgrade)-
Has 2 kinds of ammunition-
One has a REALLY large spread
the other shoots a mini-explosive(can rocket jump,but not that much)

Pros-
2 kinds of ammo
Longer range

Cons-
Explosive is slow

OR FINALLY..........
BLU Streak Beer-(LUNCHBOX ITEM)
Gives the Engineer 10% Speed and Max health,but makes him a bit drunk(70% accuracy)

Pros-
Stats last 1 minute
More health

Cons-
Less accuracy
Beer needs to be refilled afterwards(weapon drops)

At 3/26/10 03:17 PM, ShoopDaToaster wrote: Here's my ideas for the Engie's update.

Fake sentry-
A level one sentry that you build but when it is sapped,it causes an explosion and makes the Spy die.

That's not a bad idea actually, spies would have to think twice before sapping one.

OR-
Flame Sentry-
A sentry with 2 of The Pyro's flamethrowers rigged on it. It can hit spies if it sees them uncloak, and when sapped will blast them with a tiny bit of flame, making them noticeable.

If you take a look at visiblecrumpet's reply to my update idea a few pots above from here, he already explained why short range sentries are a bad idea. The enemy would just back away when hit by the flames, then easily take the sentry down from there.

OR...
Doubler(shtogun upgrade)-
Has 2 kinds of ammunition-
One has a REALLY large spread
the other shoots a mini-explosive(can rocket jump,but not that much)

Somehow I don't like this idea. It seems too random. A "mini explosive" for a shotgun? Also, the "large spread" shotgun doesn't seem to have any disadvantages, so what's to stop the user from having it instead of the normal shotgun? It needs to have cons, like smaller clip size or less damage.

Plus, I don't like the idea of Engi having quality and damaging weapons in general. Engies should have limited offensive capabilities, as their sentries are mainly what protects them. Kick ass weapons for Engi would make them too powerful.

OR FINALLY..........
BLU Streak Beer-(LUNCHBOX ITEM)
Gives the Engineer 10% Speed and Max health,but makes him a bit drunk(70% accuracy)

I like the idea, but why "BLU Streak"?

Beer needs to be refilled afterwards(weapon drops)

What do you mean by that?

How come I always realize that I forgot to say something in my previous post, and end up double posting? Speaking of which, why exactly would double posting be harmful? Why do people say that they are sorry for it?

Anyway, I'm about the click the TF2 icon in my desktop for the first time in weeks... I haven't played it for a long time, and I hope it's still not stale for me... It's one of my favorite games ever, and it's one of those few games that I bought without knowing anything about it (it was a Steam friend's suggestion), yet never regretted buying it.

At 3/26/10 03:17 PM, ShoopDaToaster wrote: Here's my ideas for the Engie's update.

Fake sentry-
A level one sentry that you build but when it is sapped,it causes an explosion and makes the Spy die.
Pros-
Unsappable
Gets enemy spies away

Cons-
Explosions do 1/2 of the sentry's Max health
Stuck at Level 1

You're forgetting the fact that it doesn't actually HELP anyone..

OR-
Flame Sentry-
A sentry with 2 of The Pyro's flamethrowers rigged on it. It can hit spies if it sees them uncloak, and when sapped will blast them with a tiny bit of flame, making them noticeable.

Pros-
Spy-Away protection
Burns the Spah

Cons-
They can uncloak offscreen
Short range flamethrower

Wouldn't work, the flamethrower range is pathetic compared to the sg's range...

OR...
Doubler(shtogun upgrade)-
Has 2 kinds of ammunition-
One has a REALLY large spread
the other shoots a mini-explosive(can rocket jump,but not that much)

Pros-
2 kinds of ammo
Longer range

Cons-
Explosive is slow

Meh...switching ammo types?Meh..

OR FINALLY..........
BLU Streak Beer-(LUNCHBOX ITEM)
Gives the Engineer 10% Speed and Max health,but makes him a bit drunk(70% accuracy)

Pros-
Stats last 1 minute
More health

Cons-
Less accuracy
Beer needs to be refilled afterwards(weapon drops)

Again, they are "minor" changes compared to the Soldier/Demo overhaul...
They will create something original, practical and funny..and if they don't, the community will whine until they do ;)
Also, I agree with TBK, they should release a fake engineer update for the 1st of April, and whoever sends a letter of complaint will get a special "donkey hat" that his characters will be forced to wear for a week.

At 3/26/10 03:17 PM, ShoopDaToaster wrote: Here's my ideas for the Engie's update.

Fake sentry-
A level one sentry that you build but when it is sapped,it causes an explosion and makes the Spy die.
Pros-
Unsappable
Gets enemy spies away

That's a pretty fantastic idea. It's a sentry that can only be level 1, but still looks like, and works like, a level 1 sentry. It causes a explosion, but takes out only 1/2 of it's health. This would introduce more of a 'thinking' factor into the game, causing the Spy to question as to why the engineer would place a level 1 sentry there.

Cons-
Explosions do 1/2 of the sentry's Max health
Stuck at Level 1

Fair enough.

BLU Streak Beer-(LUNCHBOX ITEM)
Gives the Engineer 10% Speed and Max health,but makes him a bit drunk(70% accuracy)

That's pretty suitable for the engie, as in the Meet the Engineer video you can see him drinking a bottle of beer.

Pros-
Stats last 1 minute
More health

Mhmm.

Cons-
Less accuracy
Beer needs to be refilled afterwards(weapon drops)

I'd say if that happened, then the beer would just refill over time like the Jarate and Bonk!.
________

In other news, I've bought L4D2 (completely unrelated, which is why I'll stop here), and also I've become a huge fan of Arena mode. What's everyone's favourite gametypes/maps, and why?

At 3/27/10 01:03 AM, Greenfrost6 wrote:

At 3/26/10 03:17 PM, ShoopDaToaster wrote: Fake sentry-

That's a pretty fantastic idea. It's a sentry that can only be level 1, but still looks like, and works like, a level 1 sentry. It causes a explosion, but takes out only 1/2 of it's health. This would introduce more of a 'thinking' factor into the game, causing the Spy to question as to why the engineer would place a level 1 sentry there.

I like the whole booby-trapped sentry idea as well, actually. And if the engineer can trick a spy into sapping it with some teammates around, they all get hurt >:D