Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

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At 1/14/08 06:04 PM, Zeistro wrote: I propose a brainface award for whiniest user.

Now that I think about it, we should ask Tom to make a category for whiniest user for the Newgrounds awards.

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Hey guys, I don't like ignorance... BUT THOSE FUCKING AMERICANS ARE SO IGNORANT AND INTOLERANT! AMERICANS ARE ALL FULL OF HATE AND RAGE AND ONLY DO ONE THING BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID HEADS!

lolk

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At 1/14/08 06:20 PM, xscoot wrote:

At 1/14/08 06:06 PM, Humbucker740 wrote: 'seem' and 'are' have quite the difference.

That is true, I seem better. Who would you listen to, the hobo that rants like a maniac, or the guy in the suit talking calmly that is standing right next to him. For most people, they would listen to the guy in the suit, even if he is wrong and the hobo is right. Appearances are everything.

Even when that hobo might be some philosopher who said the world is round... Or another who was killed for preaching that the earth was not the center of the Universe.

Maybe you shouldn't jump on other's then.

When did I jump on another person's spelling errors? I really can't remember. I welcome you to tell me.

Well since you said mistakes, I'm counting his lack of rhetoric a mistake.

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At 1/14/08 06:22 PM, xscoot wrote:

At 1/14/08 06:04 PM, Zeistro wrote: I propose a brainface award for whiniest user.

Now that I think about it, we should ask Tom to make a category for whiniest user for the Newgrounds awards.

1.) Tom doesn't run the Awards.

2.) The Awards were over shortly after the new year.

3.) I ran the Awards. =)

kthnxbai

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At 1/14/08 03:11 AM, fahrenheit wrote:

At 1/13/08 10:04 PM, brainface wrote: I think you're more likely to be brainwashed by something you've been watching your entire life as opposed to whatever it is you think brainwashed me to think the way I think.

That makes as much sense as me making claims about Canada, and saying that just because you disagree with me you are brainwashed.

It's not the same thing at all. Mostly all TV shows I see here in Canada are from America. There is only one local channel plus CBC and CTV.

Maybe that's something I haven't pointed out yet, I am seeing American media just toned down a little bit with more Canadian commercials and Canadian news. But nowadays I barely watch TV anyway and if any brainwashing is happened to me it was in the media course I took this semester.

At 1/13/08 10:11 PM, brainface wrote: So the more people the more hate?

To put it simply, yes.

So I guess the since the population of earth is growing, there's gonna be more and more and more hate... Like I said before, life sucks, but it doesn't have to.

And its not just the US, look at European history. So please, dont make any judgements about us in this aspect when you are one tenth our popualtion yet slightly larger in size.

I don't know much about European history but there wasn't technologies like phones, TV or Internet like there is today.

Well I lived in England for a couple months and went to a soccer camp thing. I wasn't made of.

So a Canadian went to an English soccer camp and no fights ensued? Alert the media!

Yeah but my point was, I wasn't hated on because I was different. I know that sounds like a small and insignificant example but. I haven't traveled a whole lot so I honestly don't know how much other people hate in other countries compared to America and Canada... but do you guys know?

And just so you guys know I'm not saying there isn't hate in Canada. There is a lot of it. All the same things I said about self respect applys to Canadians too. After all Canada watches mostly American TV shows and movies. People get hated everyday for being different. Hell, I would never have made this topic if I had never faced/been the hate myself.

At 1/14/08 12:25 AM, brainface wrote: What I meant to say is that I have a reason (the ideas T.V. presents you with and the individuals in your life that prepetuate those ideas) behind him being brainwashed

No you don't, and to be honest the fact that you think he is brainwashed leads me to believe you've been brainwashed to believe the average American is brainwashed.

Like I said before there is very little for me to be brainwashed by. Except for the media program I took.

I'm not the only one

You are still a moron for believing that.

Did you even think about this one? Have you even thought about the conspiracy with an open mind. I'm gonna guess that you just read the site name "9/11 truth" and thought, "This guy's a moron, I mean no one believes in that. He is different for believining in that, plus everybody else thinks the other way, I better hate on him a little bit to take some of his power away."
Please enlighten me as to why I am a moron for believing that.

At 1/14/08 04:11 PM, xXDathDalerXx wrote: i've been noticing a real snobby attitude lately stemming from people who don't live in the US...specially from Canada & Great Britain

funny thing is most people from other countries want to move to the US.

How many is 'most people'? What 'other countries'? This is a very general statement that I find hard to believe. But here's a reason to live there anyway:

$

do i smell a pint of jealousy??

Are you jealous of the bank? No, but you go there anyway because that's where the money is. I mean your house is much more comfortable after all and not everything is about money at your house like it is at the bank. And everyone is so strict at the bank, if you step out of line people get mad at you.

At 1/14/08 04:59 PM, TehChahlesh wrote: I didn't have to read beyond this paragraph to know what an arrogant idiot you are.

I don't see why you posted in this thread if you didn't read my entire post. And I'm sorry but I didn't understand your analogy.

At 1/14/08 05:07 PM, Humbucker740 wrote:

At 1/13/08 09:50 PM, brainface wrote: They are just trying to make as much money as they can without looking like the bad guys.

I do that too. And so does my neighbor. Oh wait... the entire fucking world does that.

Well, criminals do that and not everyone in the world is a criminal.

And with the use of the internet, more and more people are finding that out, (that the US government doesn't care about its citizens) because things can't be censored or not aired on the internet like it can on TV.

And still no one cares, it's called capitalism, and until it hurts some person or some group of people, no one WILL care.

9/11 conspricay... Unfortunately no one believes in this even with the internet around.

"Man those internet videos are just trying to trick me. Stuff on the internet isn't true."

Well did you ever think that this Loose Change video is just trying to inform you of the truth? Or that maybe the person who made that video is just someone like you and me trying to make a difference in the world?

Why does the creator of Loose Change have to be hated as this stupid crazy guy? Why do people have to hate him as an idiot with different views? Why can't he just be treated like you would like to be treated when you appear different?

If you ever go to school and you're made fun of (hated on) because you like My Chemical Romance (something that is different or often stereotyped as 'emo' which is different.) You think to yourself, "why are these people hating me? All listening to this music does is make me happy, why can't people just understand that?"

Making Cannabis illegal even though there's so many medical uses for it and no one has ever died from it. Meanwhile alcohol causes hundreds of thousands of deaths a year. Not to mention all the other damage it does via abusive behavior, and to your brain.

#1. People die from cannabis a lot. My friend shot himself in the face while under the influence as a 'joke'. It wasn't funny then.

If this story is even true... Was he under the influence of any other drugs? Are you 100% sure it wasn't laced. Could it be that your friend is just really stupid and that it was just a matter of time before something like that happened? Also, that's still not a direct cause, you can't OD on the sweet herb.

I mean the people on those planes must have been fucking stupid as hell.

Take a psychology class and you might find out theres more to people than common sense.

Yeah looking back I realized it was stupid of me to post that.

"Dude why do you believe that stupid 9/11 video, it's not a conspiracy you douche fag?"
Well why do you believe in what's on TV? Because it's mainstream, you've grown up with it, its hard to accept the fact that you've been lied to you entire life. And plus if you were to not believe in the media and try to convince other people the same thing then you would be different. If you're different you will get hated on.

Lol.

Lol? Why lol? Is it funny because it's true? Or is it funny because it OBVIOUSLY wasn't a conspiracy? If it obviously wasn't a conspiracy then why are there so many unanswered questions?

Yeah I know, I'm making a bunch of claims with no LINKS or ARTICLES what so ever. But instead of going nope it's automatically the opposite that's true if you can't prove it. Just think about it in a neutral state of mind.

Lol.

Again, why with the Lol?

Life sucks, but it doesn't have to.

Lol.

Ok. I guess life is supposed to suck? That's depressing.

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At 1/14/08 05:27 PM, xscoot wrote:

At 1/13/08 09:50 PM, brainface wrote: You guys always talk about how "Free" you are in America and you're allowed to be whoever you want in America. The media has been selling you that "freedom" bull shit ever since you were born and you guys have been eating up.

Actually, it is the conception of most countries that they have "freedom" and that it is what makes their country great. In reality, there is no true freedom. True freedom means doing anything you want, and that means anarchy. So no place really has such freedom, and that's a good thing.

True. But there can be personal freedom, which there is a lack of in America.

"Oh but you can get any job you want?" I'd rather be a homeless man that respected himself then a stockbroker that was dying on the inside because he got a job he didn't want and married a woman he didn't love just because everyone else was doing it.

If you are a stockbroker you have power. With power comes respect.

Yes, others respect you. But you still don't respect yourself, so people aren't respecting the real you. This could lead to the stock broker becoming even more depressed because he is becoming less and less like what he really wants to be. You don't need to sturggle through life hating yourself just so you can get some power.

With respect comes the ability to speak your mind while others listen.

Yes and no. Yes the more power you have the more people will listen to what you have to say. But at the same time if what you say is different or against the grain you could be singled out as being different and then lose your power by being hated on.

I think I'll go with the job, so I can change the world.

It's not easy for one person to change the world. An example of this would be this thread. I'm trying to change the world by challenging Americans to think more critically about the images they have seen on TV their entire life. When I do it, not much happens. If Tom Fulp were to make a news post like this, a lot more change would happen. Kind of like Joe Rogan is making a difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgbmMaOXX Yg

There's tremendous pressure on all adults over the age of 30 to get married, buy a house in the suburbs and have kids because this is the "American Dream." You people have heard of this before haven't you? You learned it from the media. Since when does the media tell you what you're dreams are!? Since when does anyone but yourself tell you what your dreams are.

Actually there was always pressure to do this, usually from parents.

That's like saying it's human nature to get married.

Even more so in Italy, as it is a recent trend that italian men stay home with their parents and don't get married even when they are 30. They say that it is the American Dream, but that is just because of their self-inflated pride.

Still this American Dream idea is shown on TV and movies all the time. And your parents will probably perpetuate the idea when you grow up and they ask you why you're not getting married like everyone else.

I also disagree with any conspiracy theory. 9/11 created terror. Terror undermines governments. If the government did 9/11, there would only be hurting themselves.

9/11 gave the bush admin an excuse to go over to Iraq to get teh oilz.

Life sucks, but it doesn't have to.

That is true. But the only reason we think it sucks is because we keep on coming up with "problems" in society. Some are true, most are not. It is a problem that gays are discriminated against. But the only reason that such discrimination exists is because somebody made up a problem with gays in the first place.

somebody = the media + the people in your life that perpetuates what you see in the media

Discrimination is a real problem, the gays are not.

You're exactly right but what is discrimination?
Is it not the collective hating of a minority?
Where does all this hate come from?

I meant it more like this: Your life sucks. Not your house, or your financial situation. But the fact that you can't be yourself without being hated on because you're different. This doesn't need to happen. You should be able to be whoever you want to be, like whatever you want to like, love whatever you want to love, and express yourself however you want.

And that is my Canadian view. Bite me.

At 1/14/08 05:29 PM, xscoot wrote: One more thing. Do to the structure of your rant, you come off like a whining baby more than anything else. Try to be more professional.

2 minutes ago

At 1/14/08 05:27 PM, xscoot wrote: Bite me.

Interesting.

At 1/14/08 06:18 PM, xscoot wrote:

At 1/14/08 06:04 PM, Zeistro wrote: I propose a brainface award for whiniest user.

That's something we can all agree on.

What was the point of that post xscoot? The only thing you did was hate on me a little bit more for being the "whiniest" user.

"Other people will join in and there will be collective hating against me because my views are different."

That's what I said in my first post. And now it's happening. You could argue that in this example the only reason I'm being hated is because I'm whining. but my "whining" has substance to it and I give reasons to believe in my "whining". And besides if you agreed with my whining you wouldn't hate me for it. The only reason you're hating on me is because of the different views I present in my "whining".

At 1/14/08 06:59 PM, LadyGrace wrote: Hey guys, I don't like ignorance... BUT THOSE FUCKING AMERICANS ARE SO IGNORANT AND INTOLERANT! AMERICANS ARE ALL FULL OF HATE AND RAGE AND ONLY DO ONE THING BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID HEADS!

lolk

Please read my entire first post instead of mocking me and putting words in my mouth. Thank you.

I wonder if anyone will ever answer the first question I asked in this thread.
Why do straight men in America beat up gay guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3exzMPT4n GI

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Hatred, corruption, ignorance, and idiocy are not American-exclusive traits.

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At 1/15/08 07:11 AM, KupaMan wrote: Hatred, corruption, ignorance, and idiocy are not American-exclusive traits.

Neither are ignorance, the internet and good debates. But I don't think the merits of each of those is up for discussion. I've yet to figure how someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction.

I take every shred of news with a grain of salt; some news stories are easier to swallow than others. Some stories, like New York being attacked, very plausibly, by religious nutjobs armed with passenger planes, are tougher pills to swallow than others. The US government has ZERO logical motivation to coordinate and instigate an incident on the proportions of 9/11.

That's the fact, no matter how you get your news. Losing the WTC hurt, no matter how you cut it. What hurts more are the fucking losers perpetuating the baseless claim that the US government wanted to commit suicide and say, "$1.00/gal gas sucks! Let's start some long drawn out war that just may bankrupt our nation, just so our pockets get fatter!"

Politicians are corrupt, I know that. Politicians don't have the pull to put four planes into the WTC, Pentagon, and Capitol Hill.

If you're going to act like a Chicken Little and shout how the sky is falling, get off the internet and stock up on food, because they're watching you, RIGHT NOW.

60 years ago, Roosevelt intercepted transmissions using a broken Japanese code to discover an attack on American targets was on the horizon. Some of the hi-jackers really WERE on a watch list, but who knew what they were trying to do? Osama bin Laden pledged twice in interviews with an American journalist that he was leading a movement swearing death to Americans where they stand, for the crimes committed on behalf of their government.

He's a billionairre with a goal. He has better motivations for attacking the US than the US government does. That fac t alone should dispell any notion you have that 9/11 was an "inside job". I'd kick that Loose Change fuckhead's teeth in if he tried to pitch that bullshit to me in person. The internet provides the security blanket fucking kids like him love to abuse. I say abuse because some of you idiots out there are convinced that one piece of media is somehow more reliable than the next, because after all, "what's he gaining from making it all up?"

THAT'S THE SAME FUCKING QUESTION THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS CAN'T ANSWER WHEN ASKED WHAT THE UNITED STATED HAD TO GAIN FROM THE ATTACKS.

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At 1/15/08 03:35 AM, brainface wrote:

At 1/14/08 05:07 PM, Humbucker740 wrote:

At 1/13/08 09:50 PM, brainface wrote: They are just trying to make as much money as they can without looking like the bad guys.

I do that too. And so does my neighbor. Oh wait... the entire fucking world does that.

Well, criminals do that and not everyone in the world is a criminal.

No but everyone tries to make as much money as they can. Thats why we have people who try to get educated for better jobs for money, people who are inventors for money, people who clean trash for money. Because its better than the alternatives to what they can do and it pays more.

And with the use of the internet, more and more people are finding that out, (that the US government doesn't care about its citizens) because things can't be censored or not aired on the internet like it can on TV.

And still no one cares, it's called capitalism, and until it hurts some person or some group of people, no one WILL care.

9/11 conspricay... Unfortunately no one believes in this even with the internet around.

"Man those internet videos are just trying to trick me. Stuff on the internet isn't true."

Well did you ever think that this Loose Change video is just trying to inform you of the truth? Or that maybe the person who made that video is just someone like you and me trying to make a difference in the world?

Sure I thought that, then I realized it was just someone else who hates the government for some odd reason or someone who likes to incite the public. Theres plenty of people that like to incite people and hate the government, mostly because it has power.

Why does the creator of Loose Change have to be hated as this stupid crazy guy? Why do people have to hate him as an idiot with different views? Why can't he just be treated like you would like to be treated when you appear different?

Thats sweet. But even if he's different he can keep his opinion to himself because thats what people do when they think odd things which are completely implausible.

If you ever go to school and you're made fun of (hated on) because you like My Chemical Romance (something that is different or often stereotyped as 'emo' which is different.) You think to yourself, "why are these people hating me? All listening to this music does is make me happy, why can't people just understand that?"

Thanks for sharing your life story and I'm saddened by it, but I have yet to see anyone in my public high school of 3000 be ridiculed by anyone other than a small group of people known as the 'popular group' and this group is ridiculed by everyone else due to envy.

Making Cannabis illegal even though there's so many medical uses for it and no one has ever died from it. Meanwhile alcohol causes hundreds of thousands of deaths a year. Not to mention all the other damage it does via abusive behavior, and to your brain.

#1. People die from cannabis a lot. My friend shot himself in the face while under the influence as a 'joke'. It wasn't funny then.

If this story is even true... Was he under the influence of any other drugs? Are you 100% sure it wasn't laced. Could it be that your friend is just really stupid and that it was just a matter of time before something like that happened? Also, that's still not a direct cause, you can't OD on the sweet herb.

Unlaced. Yes you can OD on weed, no matter how much you want to think otherwise. My friend was not stupid in any way, in fact, he was quite intelligent, scored a 2050 on the SAT.

I mean the people on those planes must have been fucking stupid as hell.

Take a psychology class and you might find out theres more to people than common sense.

Yeah looking back I realized it was stupid of me to post that.

Yeah.

"Dude why do you believe that stupid 9/11 video, it's not a conspiracy you douche fag?"
Well why do you believe in what's on TV? Because it's mainstream, you've grown up with it, its hard to accept the fact that you've been lied to you entire life. And plus if you were to not believe in the media and try to convince other people the same thing then you would be different. If you're different you will get hated on.

Lol.

Lol? Why lol? Is it funny because it's true? Or is it funny because it OBVIOUSLY wasn't a conspiracy? If it obviously wasn't a conspiracy then why are there so many unanswered questions?

Well since it has unanswered questions it MUST be a conspiracy.. OH MY GOD WAIT!!! That means life is a conspiracy because it has so many unanswered questions!! And space itself is a conspiracy!

Yeah I know, I'm making a bunch of claims with no LINKS or ARTICLES what so ever. But instead of going nope it's automatically the opposite that's true if you can't prove it. Just think about it in a neutral state of mind.

Lol.

Again, why with the Lol?

Facts are not facts without evidence and its funny that you think otherwise.

Life sucks, but it doesn't have to.

Lol.

Ok. I guess life is supposed to suck? That's depressing.

Life only sucks for people who can't deal with it, and yeah, that is depressing. Instead of crying about the shit going on, try to improve it, and by the way, ranting about conspiracies doesn't improve anything.

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At 1/15/08 03:46 AM, brainface wrote: I wonder if anyone will ever answer the first question I asked in this thread.
Why do straight men in America beat up gay guys?

First off, it's your own damn fault you mixed that question with a myriad of other topics of discussion./ In fact, you barely touched on the original point of homophobia.

To answer your question: it's because that most people in this country have been raised being taught that homosexuality is a sin and morally offensive. So these people are often engrained with a sense of hatred for something they consider "wrong". Some people can deal with this, others feel the need to lash out against the gays. SOME people react this way because it is something alien and new to them and they don't know what to do. They are frightened and threatened to be in such an unknown environment and choose to use violence to get of it.

But what we must also consider is that gays may not even experience more violence and contempt than black people, Hispanics, women, and even whites in some areas. More of a deal is made out of it though.

;

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At 1/15/08 10:08 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 1/15/08 07:11 AM, KupaMan wrote: Hatred, corruption, ignorance, and idiocy are not American-exclusive traits.

Neither are ignorance, the internet and good debates. But I don't think the merits of each of those is up for discussion. I've yet to figure how someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction.

Wait, what? Do you think that I think that 9/11 was government executed? Ugh, I feel sick that I even seeded the soil with any doubt. What I said had nothing to do with anything you've said. My comments referred to the post from which the thread was created.

9/11 really happened, folks, by real Islamic terrorists. The idiocy part makes up the majority of those who think otherwise.

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Not everyone in American is born and raised a Klan member.

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At 1/15/08 10:08 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 1/15/08 07:11 AM, KupaMan wrote: Hatred, corruption, ignorance, and idiocy are not American-exclusive traits.

Neither are ignorance, the internet and good debates. But I don't think the merits of each of those is up for discussion. I've yet to figure how someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction.

You guys are also someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction. Yet I'm an idiot for disbelieving the story that popular media has presented me with. Why is this? Because it's popular?

You guys say you don't hate me because I'm different, you hate me because I'm an idiot. And the only reason I'm an idiot is because of what I believe in. So if you skip the middle man it's still about me thinking differently and you hating me for it.

I take every shred of news with a grain of salt; some news stories are easier to swallow than others.
Some stories, like New York being attacked, very plausibly, by religious nutjobs armed with passenger planes, are tougher pills to swallow than others.

You say something is plausible then in the same sentence you say that it you find it hard to believe. Which one is it?

The US government has ZERO logical motivation to coordinate and instigate an incident on the proportions of 9/11.

There are many. In fact I was reading a debunking site a moment ago that said that is an accepted truth.

If you're going to act like a Chicken Little and shout how the sky is falling, get off the internet and stock up on food, because they're watching you, RIGHT NOW.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean?

60 years ago, Roosevelt intercepted transmissions using a broken Japanese code to discover an attack on American targets was on the horizon. Some of the hi-jackers really WERE on a watch list, but who knew what they were trying to do? Osama bin Laden pledged twice in interviews with an American journalist that he was leading a movement swearing death to Americans where they stand, for the crimes committed on behalf of their government.
He's a billionairre with a goal. He has better motivations for attacking the US than the US government does. That fac t alone should dispell any notion you have that 9/11 was an "inside job".

You're contradicting yourself when you compare that to what you first said. "I've yet to figure how someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction." Also note that if I were to post a claim like that I would get flamed to no end for not backing it up. Yet when someone who doesn't believe in the conspiracy posts it you find it pretty easy to accept as truth with no back up whatsoever.

We all have biases and in order to believe in the 9/11 conspiracy you need to over come your own bias. Think before you think. Wait, am I only thinking this because I want it to be true?

I'd kick that Loose Change fuckhead's teeth in if he tried to pitch that bullshit to me in person.

Wow. Hate much? You're gonna be violent towards someone just because they have a different belief than you and because they share it with you? How about simply choosing not to believe what they say instead of kicking his teeth in? Why the extra hate and violence?

The internet provides the security blanket fucking kids like him love to abuse.

That security blanket theory is bullshit. I don't feel secure believing that it was the US government. It' scares the shit out of me just thinking about it. I mean it's fucking scary to think that it was actually George Bush who was responsible for thousands of American's deaths.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
-Jimi Hendrix

I say abuse because some of you idiots out there are convinced that one piece of media is somehow more reliable than the next,

And who's to say it isn't? I can't believe you're calling us idiots for thinking that. I mean the whole problem with people not believining in the conspiracy is that all these pro conspiracy videos are on the internet. And you guys are "convinced that one piece of media (TV) is somehow more reliable than the next." I send you links to 9/11 truth, you make fun of me then send me links to 911 myths as if they're fact. Of course some forms of media are more reliable than others!! But the only truth is that we DON'T know. You don't know, I don't know, we don't know shit. You just need to be choose who's advice you do and don't buy. It's not like there's one ultimate link on the internet that will end this thread. You guys just need to decide what forms of media you do believe and what forms of media you don't believe.

because after all, "what's he gaining from making it all up?"
THAT'S THE SAME FUCKING QUESTION THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS CAN'T ANSWER WHEN ASKED WHAT THE UNITED STATED HAD TO GAIN FROM THE ATTACKS.

Fear. After 9/11 the entire US population now lives in fear of terrorists. This has lead to congress being able to pass laws that go against the constitution that the country was founded on. I heard there's one law that allows any American citizen to be tortured just because they are suspected as being a terrorist.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?stor y=20050204132153814

You should all try reading this with an OPEN MIND.

At 1/15/08 04:23 PM, Humbucker740 wrote:

At 1/15/08 03:35 AM, brainface wrote:

At 1/14/08 05:07 PM, Humbucker740 wrote:

At 1/13/08 09:50 PM, brainface wrote: They are just trying to make as much money as they can without looking like the bad guys.

I do that too. And so does my neighbor. Oh wait... the entire fucking world does that.

Well, criminals do that and not everyone in the world is a criminal.

No but everyone tries to make as much money as they can.

Not all the time. Not their entire lives. What if they don't feel like working? What if they have a spouse that supports them?

That's why we have people who try to get educated for better jobs for money, people who are inventors for money, people who clean trash for money. Because its better than the alternatives to what they can do and it pays more.

My original point was breaking the law or doing immoral things in order to get as much money as possible.

Well did you ever think that this Loose Change video is just trying to inform you of the truth? Or that maybe the person who made that video is just someone like you and me trying to make a difference in the world?

Sure I thought that, then I realized it was just someone else who hates the government for some odd reason or someone who likes to incite the public.

Where the hell did you get this idea? What made you 'realize' this?. "For some odd reason"?

So if I talked to the creator of Loose Change this is what he would say?
I dedicated years of my life to make this 2 hour long documentary because I hate the government for some odd reason or its because I wanted to get people excited for no reason at all.

There's plenty of people that like to incite people and hate the government, mostly because it has power.

OK lets say the Loose Change guy just hates the government because they have power.
Still why would someone spend so much time making a documentary that isn't even about what they believe in? If you were to make a long movie like that you're not gonna make it about something you're not passionate about.

Sorry to break it to you but people don't make 9/11 conspiracy sites and movies just for shits. They do it because they're passionate about it. So passionate that they want to inform other people and try and make a difference. Unfortunately, for the most part it doesn't.

I'm wondering where you got this "They don't like the government and want to get people excited" idea from. Did you just make it up or was it on TV?

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Why does the creator of Loose Change have to be hated as this stupid crazy guy? Why do people have to hate him as an idiot with different views? Why can't he just be treated like you would like to be treated when you appear different?

Thats sweet. But even if he's different he can keep his opinion to himself because thats what people do when they think odd things which are completely implausible.

Why is the conspiracy so implausible?
Yeah because that's the American way of thinking that you've been taught through the media. If you think differently from the rest of the herd then you better not talk. This goes back to the whole different = hate thing.

If you ever go to school and you're made fun of (hated on) because you like My Chemical Romance (something that is different or often stereotyped as 'emo' which is different.) You think to yourself, "why are these people hating me? All listening to this music does is make me happy, why can't people just understand that?"

Thanks for sharing your life story and I'm saddened by it, but I have yet to see anyone in my public high school of 3000 be ridiculed by anyone other than a small group of people known as the 'popular group' and this group is ridiculed by everyone else due to envy.

For the record I don't like MCR but good job in trying to make it personal. Damn your school sounds really messed up... In a good way though.

If this story is even true... Was he under the influence of any other drugs? Are you 100% sure it wasn't laced. Could it be that your friend is just really stupid and that it was just a matter of time before something like that happened? Also, that's still not a direct cause, you can't OD on the sweet herb.

Unlaced. Yes you can OD on weed, no matter how much you want to think otherwise.

I think much otherwise, so let's just drop it.

Lol? Why lol? Is it funny because it's true? Or is it funny because it OBVIOUSLY wasn't a conspiracy? If it obviously wasn't a conspiracy then why are there so many unanswered questions?

Well since it has unanswered questions it MUST be a conspiracy..

I never said that. Read over what I said again. I only said that to make my point that it's not obvious. Or maybe you said 'lol' because of the whole different = hate thing.

OH MY GOD WAIT!!! That means life is a conspiracy because it has so many unanswered questions!! And space itself is a conspiracy!

These are bad examples because with the 9/11 conspiracy we are told the truth through the media and there are still unanswered questions that are left over. With the life/space thing we aren't told any truth about it to begin with.

Again, why with the Lol?

Facts are not facts without evidence and its funny that you think otherwise.

Not by my definition of Fact. I think a fact is something that is 100% proven true. So the only facts have to do with science and math.
I think in your statement above I would replace fact with truth. "truths are not true without evidence." Evidence is a reason to believe in something or prove something being true (which is the same thing).

Are we on the same page?

Life sucks, but it doesn't have to.

Lol.

Ok. I guess life is supposed to suck? That's depressing.

Life only sucks for people who can't deal with it, Instead of crying about the shit going on, try to improve it,

Why should whether or not they can deal with it have to do with the quality of there life? You ever seen "My Super Sweet 16"? It's where those rich teenagers throw huge birthday parties on their parents' dollar. One time I was watching it and the birthday girl was given a car on the day of her birthday by her parents. This girl then began to cry and get mad at her parents because she wanted to get the car later that night in front of all her friends. She's crying. Does her life suck? Hell no. This isn't the show but here's a video I found of a similar situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_36mXx-
mw

and by the way, ranting about conspiracies doesn't improve anything.

How unfortunate.

At 1/15/08 04:37 PM, reviewer-general wrote:

At 1/15/08 03:46 AM, brainface wrote: I wonder if anyone will ever answer the first question I asked in this thread.
Why do straight men in America beat up gay guys?

To answer your question: it's because that most people in this country have been raised being taught that homosexuality is a sin and morally offensive. So these people are often engrained with a sense of hatred for something they consider "wrong". Some people can deal with this, others feel the need to lash out against the gays. SOME people react this way because it is something alien and new to them and they don't know what to do. They are frightened and threatened to be in such an unknown environment and choose to use violence to get of it.

Well put. Where would you say that people are taught that homosexuality is a sin and morally offensive?

At 1/15/08 04:47 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote:

At 1/13/08 09:50 PM, brainface wrote: With any luck some American will post in this thread calling me a hippie, faggot and/or use excessive amounts of sarcasm to make me look like an idiot. Other people will join in and there will be collective hating against me because my views are different. Which will totally prove my point. I mean after all I'm one person. I'm claiming to have more power because I'm informed. You're supposed to hate me.

Ugh.

Cut the bullshit with "LULZ, U ONLEH HAIT ME CUZ I THINK DIFFRUNT!!!"

Yes, that's exactly why. You think differently--based on utter bullshit.

Please fill me in on the bullshit that I base my beliefs on. I feel like you are just generalizing everything I've said. I think this Utter bullshit you are referring to is just things that I believe in and things that you don't believe in.

I've never come to understand who the fuck came up with the idea that an opinion can never be wrong. Well guess what, it's my opinion you're wrong.

An opinion can be wrong. But it's still just an opinion. It's a personal thing. I can have any opinion I want of you, you can think it's wrong but you can't change it.

Opinions can be wrong if they're based on total stupidity. Opinions can be wrong if they have no logical basis.

They can be wrong but everyone is still entitled to their own opinion. They can think whatever the hell they want

Opinions are nothing to me, truthful information is.

truthful information? How can anyone decipher what's actually true information? If it's scientific information unless you are a scientist and actually know the laws to understand the information you can't know what's true. If it's something as subjective as a story then you can only go on either believing or disbelieving different people who tell different versions of the story.
Truth is what you choose to believe. You can't just say everything on TV is true, these websites are true, and then these are the websites that aren't true.

If you believe something for no reason, you've been proved wrong countless times as to why, and yet at the end of a long drawn-out debate you say "Because it's my opinion"

There's a difference between 'no reason' and 'with no proof.' "Proved wrong"? Like I've been saying you can't just link to a site that is the ultimatum that proves it wrong. Something that may prove something wrong for you might not prove something wrong for me. I may want more proof to satisfy my queries. Proving something isn't black and white.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE NOT A FUCKING RETARD, AND IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T BE WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING.

What did I say to provoke this? I didn't even say anything about opinions. In fact the word opinion only came up 3 times before your post.

You're not informed at all. You're not more powerful. You're just an idiot talking out of your ass.

Well that's your opinion. :)

---

I'm not saying all this is true, I mean shit, I don't actually know exactly what I'm talking about, this is me just rambling on about what I believe is wrong with America. I don't have links or any proof that will scientifically or statistically prove my claims. Because most of the time that never goes anywhere in an internet discussion anyway. After all "Truth is what you choose to believe."

With America? You mean the world. Stop blaming us and making it seem like we are the worst people on the planet.

It's not the people it's the media. The media sets cultural norms for society and teaches people how to hate.

Yes, and that is the problem. You have absolutely nothing to back up your claims. You've never been to America, you have no idea what it is like here.

I have been for weeks at a time. My sister lives in Austin. Although it's in Texas it's more of a left wing city.

Just eat up whatever bullshit you hear on your Canadian news media.

Like I said earlier I get American News too, CNN, Fox News, and when comparing it to Canadian news it's much more toned down. And the Canadian News doesn't rag on America... Rick Mercer does that.

You guys always talk about how "Free" you are in America and you're allowed to be whoever you want in America. The media has been selling you that "freedom" bull shit ever since you were born and you guys have been eating up.

Because we are. No law can be made to discriminate against someone. Everyone is equal here according to the government system. It doesn't mean the government can control how people think of each other or act towards each other unless it is actually harmful or unavoidable.

What is it with you Canadians. Are you like forced to act in any way the government chooses you should?

Not from the government no. But the American media that we view in Canada establishes cultural norms having to do with sex, class, and race. If you don't fit the norm you get hated on.

If a man expresses themselves in the slightest they'll be called a pussy and be made fun of.
If you're fat you'll be called a fat ass and be made fun of.
If you wear weird clothing you'll be called an emo fag... and amde fun of.
If you get good marks you'll be called the teacher's pet.
and it's not just high school stuff.
If you have a different sexual orientation then heterosexual then you'll get beat up.
If you don't get married after a certain age, you're a fucking weirdo.

You think this is exclusive to the United States? Wow. You must think the whole world is fully of happiness and rainbows.

I honestly don't know if it's exclusive to the USA and Canada because my only experience out of those 2 countries was living in England for 2 months. Unfortunately I was young at the time and didn't think much about this sort of thing.

Also, there was a law passed in Canada that prohibits negative speech against women. Do you think living in a controlled society where people are not allowed to think the way they want to is a perfect one?

What the hell man? you've been hating on me and the way I think the entire time. Besides why do you want to make negative speech towards women? What's wrong with not being able to say, "Bitch." It perpetuates the ideas on American television that men are dominant over women . . .
I've never heard of that anyways though.

Where's the freedom in any of this? Unless you think conformity is free.

It doesn't matter where you live, you can BE whoever you want, but in America if you're different everyone points it out and hates you because of it. This leads to nobody being themselves and therefore how can you respect yourself if you're being someone you're not. And if you can't respect yourself you can't respect others. It's that simple.

"Oh but you can get any job you want?" I'd rather be a homeless man that respected himself then a stockbroker that was dying on the inside because he got a job he didn't want and married a woman he didn't love just because everyone else was doing it.

Yawn. You still don't have any idea what the United States is like.

What? You just agreed with me 2 seconds ago.

"You think this is exclusive to the United States? Wow. You must think the whole world is fully of happiness and rainbows."

There's tremendous pressure on all adults over the age of 30 to get married, buy a house in the suburbs and have kids because this is the "American Dream." You people have heard of this before haven't you? You learned it from the media. Since when does the media tell you what you're dreams are!? Since when does anyone but yourself tell you what your dreams are.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You think that's what our media is?

I think your media puts pressure on you.

You sad, ignorant, stupid pot smoking soul.

:D

You guys think your government is looking out for you? You think they care about you? They don't give a shit. They are just trying to make as much money as they can without looking like the bad guys. And with the use of the internet, more and more people are finding that out, because things can't be censored or not aired on the internet like it can on TV.

Lol. That's all I have to say.

Here's a little test.

Go to YouTube.
Type in conspiracy

Look at all the videos.

Now go to Google.

Type in conspiracy.

Look through the millions of results.

These are sites controlled by major corporations,

huh? Where did you get this idea from? A search engine just shows websites that have the word conspiracy in it. This could be any website.

yet you still are in your little paranoid bubble crying that the world is being censored by the US government?

I'm saying that TV is being censored. There are SO many rules when it comes to putting stuff on TV. I'm in the bubble? You guys should try thinking more critically about things other than popular culture and popular opinion.

Making Cannabis illegal even though there's so many medical uses for it and no one has ever died from it. Meanwhile alcohol causes hundreds of thousands of deaths a year. Not to mention all the other damage it does via abusive behavior, and to your brain.

You think marijuana does no damage to you?

It makes you forgetful, and it fucks up your lungs. Both of which go back to normal after a long enough time.

9/11 Conspiracy. Yeah I went there.

You're more gullible than I thought.

"But wait no, why wouldn't they just kill the guy who made Loose Change blah, blah, blah." If the government had the power to do that, they would have the power to stop 16 terrorsits armed with box cutters.

www.debunking911.com
www.911myths.com

Look under hijackers. Enjoy.

It's sad you didn't even get the number right, yet you're this stupid little Canadian teenager trying to enlighten the world about the big bad government. Ohnoez.

Shit, I got the number wrong. That's because I'm trying to make you guys realize that it's not about who has the better 'facts' or who has more links. It's all about what you believe. I could post tons and tons of links about the 9/11 conspiracy but you guys would probably just hate on me even more.

Well why do you believe in what's on TV? Because it's mainstream, you've grown up with it, its hard to accept the fact that you've been lied to you entire life.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Accept the fact that I've been lied to my entire life.

By that I meant more stuff life ideas you're told about like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3exzMPT4n GI

How about you accept the fact that that video has been thoroughly debunked even by other conspiracy theorists.

I've read a lot of bunch of debunking sites and I'm never satisfied. In fact I watched an entire 1 hour long special on debunking the conspiracy and I wasn't satisfied. I picked it apart as well, I'll post it later.

---

You think that piece of shit is true? (reffering to conspiracy video)

Yes, I do. What's so believable about the debunk sites? Other than the fact that it satisfies your bias of disproving that "piece of shit."

Ever once think that the people who made that video are lying,

I do, all the time but the question as to why they would be lying is silly though. I addressed this earlier.

and not the millions of people that would be needed to create a 9/11 conspiracy?

I wonder how much those people got paid.

And plus if you were to not believe in the media and try to convince other people the same thing then you would be different. If you're different you will get hated on.
See my first statement.

Exactly. . . ?

---

America hates black people

---

At 1/16/08 07:12 AM, thel3mon wrote: America hates black people

Not as much as Europe. There are better opportunities for black people in America than in Europe. Even Colin Powell said that had his parents immigrated to Britain, he would get no further than sergeant. How many black people (or even ethnic minorities) are serving in the national governments of Europe? Probably not as much as America. I'm not American but I hate European hypocrisy when it comes to racism. "OMG liek Amerika is racist." At least the Americans don't have far-right parties sitting in their legislature.

---

Read carefully, and try not to get lost.

At 1/16/08 05:59 AM, brainface wrote:

At 1/15/08 10:08 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

I've yet to figure how someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction.

You guys are also someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction. Yet I'm an idiot for disbelieving the story that popular media has presented me with. Why is this?

Did you heard conviction in my post? If you did, that's because I'm fairly confident I've based my opinion that 9/11 WAS NOT an inside for X amount of reasons. It'd be too hard to keep 100% under wraps. People talk. It would take

I take every shred of news with a grain of salt; some news stories are easier to swallow than others.

See that's what I said.

Some stories, like New York being attacked, very plausibly, by religious nutjobs armed with passenger planes, are tougher pills to swallow than others.

You say something is plausible then in the same sentence you say that it you find it hard to believe. Which one is it?

Both.

The US government has ZERO logical motivation to coordinate and instigate an incident on the proportions of 9/11.

There are many. In fact I was reading a debunking site a moment ago that said that is an accepted truth.

No, it's not. And you're an idiot for believing that. See? That middle man idiot didn't save you from being an idiot. It's called reality, most of us live in it.

If you're going to act like a Chicken Little and shout how the sky is falling, get off the internet and stock up on food, because they're watching you, RIGHT NOW.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean?

If the government is only concerned with the 566 people on the hill, they've already got an implant in your head and can hear everything you think. I read that somewhere hardeeharhar

We all have biases and in order to believe in the 9/11 conspiracy you need to over come your own bias. Think before you think. Wait, am I only thinking this because I want it to be true?

Probably. Who knows?

I'd kick that Loose Change fuckhead's teeth in if he tried to pitch that bullshit to me in person.

Wow. Hate much?

Yes. It's part of being healthy.

You're gonna be violent towards someone just because they have a different belief than you and because they share it with you?

Yeah. And they're an idiot, that counts against him, too, not just my bigotry for his "different belief". I "believe differently" that internet needs to be censored so heavily it's got no appeal to kids. That doesn't make my "believe differently" off-limits from the real world.

How about simply choosing not to believe what they say instead of kicking his teeth in? Why the extra hate and violence?

How about choosing not to believe what they say, then kicking his teeth in for wasting his life on something that i wouldn't mind wasting my life kicking his teeth in for? Does that work for you? Before you respond, remeber this is the internet and you ARE on it.

The internet provides the security blanket fucking kids like him love to abuse.

That security blanket theory is bullshit.

Prove it.

And you guys are "convinced that one piece of media (TV) is somehow more reliable than the next."

Read beginning of post again. Say neither versions are true and the buildings are still standing in New York. Wouldn't you feel stupid then? If it's a conspiracy, why wouldn't they just fabricate a video and keep the two towers standing? Can you tell me why they didn't do that? Oh yeah, it's all speculation, like your whole argument. Speculation.

You guys just need to decide what forms of media you do believe and what forms of media you don't believe.

We have, and you seem to think we're the idiots for doing so. Think about it.

Fear. After 9/11 the entire US population now lives in fear of terrorists. This has lead to congress being able to pass laws that go against the constitution that the country was founded on. I heard there's one law that allows any American citizen to be tortured just because they are suspected as being a terrorist.'

Oh yeah, that law wasn't meant to apprehend people planning attacks, just to tortute people for no reason. GUESS WHAT ELSE? THE US GOVERNMENT KILLED KANYE'S MAMA, BECAUSE GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE.

If Kanye said it, it must be true. He's not a media puppet at all, nope.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?stor y=20050204132153814

You should all try reading this with an OPEN MIND.

Read it 4 years ago, wasn't impressed.

Sorry to break it to you but people don't make 9/11 conspiracy sites and movies just for shits. They do it because they're passionate about it.

You don't know how shit-crazy people can be. You'll get better as you get older though.

---

At 1/15/08 03:46 AM, brainface wrote: Please read my entire first post instead of mocking me and putting words in my mouth. Thank you.

I wonder if anyone will ever answer the first question I asked in this thread.
Why do straight men in America beat up gay guys?

Because the question is a stupid one. Only a very, very, VERY small minority of straight males beat up gays. They're usually located in the south (though not always), and are so socially brainwashed to hate anything different, it wouldn't matter if they're gay, black, Jewish, or what. That question is as asinine as asking "why to the English hate dental care?"

---

At 1/16/08 07:12 AM, thel3mon wrote: America hates black people

You know, less than 5% of all the slaves in the Atlantic Slave Trade were sold to North America. In fact, Brazil bought 35% of them; more than anyone else (13% more than their closest competition).

---

At 1/16/08 06:04 AM, brainface wrote: I wonder how much those people got paid.

What a good question.

How much would it take to shut you up?

Let's assume $10,000,000. Not exactly enough to live rich for life, but certainly a good sum.

Now, everyone involved in the planning of the conspiracy would be getting paid $10,000,000. That's at least 100,000,000,000 dollars right there. Not to mention the thousands(millions?) of soldiers, scientists, engineers, and bystanders who would need the same amount.

That would break 1,000,000,000,000 dollars. Making it the biggest governmentpaycheck ever.

And no one would ever admit that they were paid off.

---

At 1/15/08 03:46 AM, brainface wrote:

Well put. Where would you say that people are taught that homosexuality is a sin and morally offensive?

Honestly, religion is the leading reason. See my latest blog entry for more.

But even so, a lot of people may get this, even if they are not really religious, just from the media and the others around them. You could have never gone to church a day in your life, but those around you make you think that hating gays is the norm.

;

---

At 1/16/08 01:12 PM, Geordi-Laforge wrote: Did you heard conviction in my post? If you did, that's because I'm fairly confident I've based my opinion that 9/11 WAS NOT an inside for X amount of reasons.

Yeah but how can someone with ZERO direct knowledge/experience about/around 9/11 could even have an opinion with any sort of conviction?

Am I missing something?

It'd be too hard to keep 100% under wraps.

That's right. That's why there are incosistencies with the story show in popular media.

People talk.

People can talk all they want but no one believes them anyway. For example: most of the people in this thread.

I take every shred of news with a grain of salt; some news stories are easier to swallow than others.

Yeah but you still try to swallow it. You should instead take a good look at it and smell it before you even put it in your mouth.

The US government has ZERO logical motivation to coordinate and instigate an incident on the proportions of 9/11.

There are many. In fact I was reading a debunking site a moment ago that said that is an accepted truth.

No, it's not. And you're an idiot for believing that.

Why am I an idiot? "For believing that."? You continue to call me an idiot just because I believe in different sources of media. Everyone has different beliefs, we are all entitiled to have our own beliefs. Yet you call me an idiot because of what I believe in.
This is arrogant.

See? That middle man idiot didn't save you from being an idiot. It's called reality, most of us live in it.

Reality eh? Well you base a lot of your reality on TV do you not? Thats where you base everything you know about 9/11. Either way American media is far from reality. For example, there are no ugly people on TV. That is not real at all. There are so many ugly people in reality. You could say that's irrelevant but my point it popular media effects people in more way than one. They sell you ideas. One being that ugly people are insuperior. This is simply not true, but yet we treat beautiful people like gods. It doesn't need to be this way.

If the government is only concerned with the 566 people on the hill, they've already got an implant in your head and can hear everything you think. I read that somewhere hardeeharhar

No, see they'll plan another conspiracy like 9/11 that will make the entire population WANT to get the chip inside they're head. Kinda like they used 9/11 to make the entire population WANT go to war in afghan.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2002/How -To-Start-A-WarMay02.htm

I'd kick that Loose Change fuckhead's teeth in if he tried to pitch that bullshit to me in person.

Wow. Hate much?

Yes. It's part of being healthy.

??? Hating = Healthy? HAting is a way to vent anger, stress or any discontent or suffering that you have experienced. Although it may be healthy to blow off some steam, the hate you give out is not healthy. You only need to hate if you've been hated on. So many people think hating is human nature but hate comes from the shitty things we can't deal with. Hate != Testosterone. The amount of hate changes everywhere you go. But I think's the worst in America simply because of the media. The media sets norms and stereotypes for people in society that these people don't necesarilly want to live up to. Being forced into a way of living and/or acting results in people's discontent with themselves. And when you can't even respect yourself how could you possibly respect others. People then start hating each other for not fitting into the stereotypes, this hate leads to suffering and more hate.

It is posible to be hated and not hate others however it takes a lot of self discipline and reflection. For example road rage. If someone cuts you off you get pissed off at that driver. You start hating on them, making fun of them assuming they're female, asian or old. It's very common to do this. But if you simply just take a deep breath and think, well atlesast I didn't get in an accident, or maybe this person has problems of their own, then you won't get pissed and bottle up anymore anger.

You're gonna be violent towards someone just because they have a different belief than you and because they share it with you?

Yeah. And they're an idiot, that counts against him, too,

So you hate all people who are stupid? Again you're just calling him an idiot for what he believes in, this is arrogant.

not just my bigotry for his "different belief". I "believe differently" that internet needs to be censored so heavily it's got no appeal to kids. That doesn't make my "believe differently" off-limits from the real world.

How about simply choosing not to believe what they say instead of kicking his teeth in? Why the extra hate and violence?

How about choosing not to believe what they say, then kicking his teeth in for wasting his life on something that i wouldn't mind wasting my life kicking his teeth in for? Does that work for you? Before you respond, remeber this is the internet and you ARE on it.

I still can't believe you're defending the idea that it's OK to kick someone in the teeth solely on something they believe in.

The internet provides the security blanket fucking kids like him love to abuse.

That security blanket theory is bullshit.

Prove it.

I don't need to prove it because I believe in the conspiracy and that's simply not why I would want to believe in it.
Also it's just a theory made up by people who don't even believe in the conspiracy so who are they to make up a theory on how other people feel?
What is that theory even based on anyway? If anything it's the opposite. Would you feel safe knowing that your own Government meant to kill thousands of people. This is SO not an easy thing to accept.

And you guys are "convinced that one piece of media (TV) is somehow more reliable than the next."

Read beginning of post again. Say neither versions are true and the buildings are still standing in New York. Wouldn't you feel stupid then? If it's a conspiracy, why wouldn't they just fabricate a video

I've heard rumors that they are fabricated. There wasn't even any planes, the government just made a bunch of videos from various angles (all of which are on tripods) of the planes hitting. I don't believe in that but its interesting to think about.

and keep the two towers standing? Can you tell me why they didn't do that?

This is a weak argument. If the towers were still there everyone who ever went to New York would have to be in on it. After all who would question if the entire nation saw 2 planes smash into the world trade center and crumble to the ground. It's something so outrageous most people would never even think about questioning how they fell. I know I didn't till years later.

Oh yeah, it's all speculation, like your whole argument. Speculation.

You guys just need to decide what forms of media you do believe and what forms of media you don't believe.

We have, and you seem to think we're the idiots for doing so. Think about it.

I wouldn't say you guys are idiots, I just think it's sad you won't think about it more critically and give none-mainstream media a chance. Why can't you guys scare yourself a bit and think, "Shit what if my gov't is lying to me?"

Read it 4 years ago, wasn't impressed.

Why not?

Sorry to break it to you but people don't make 9/11 conspiracy sites and movies just for shits. They do it because they're passionate about it.

You don't know how shit-crazy people can be.

And of course you do.

You'll get better as you get older though.

Better at what?

---

At 1/16/08 11:50 PM, brainface wrote: I'm a god damn moron

Let me repeat what I said before, you must have missed it:

How much would it take to shut you up?

Let's assume $10,000,000. Not exactly enough to live rich for life, but certainly a good sum.

Now, everyone involved in the planning of the conspiracy would be getting paid $10,000,000. That's at least 100,000,000,000 dollars right there. Not to mention the thousands(millions?) of soldiers, scientists, engineers, and bystanders who would need the same amount.

That would break 1,000,000,000,000 dollars. Making it the biggest government pay check ever.

And no one would ever admit that they were paid off.

---

At 1/18/08 05:13 PM, TehChahlesh wrote: How much would it take to shut you up?

Let's assume $10,000,000. Not exactly enough to live rich for life, but certainly a good sum.

That is a big assumption.

Now, everyone involved in the planning of the conspiracy would be getting paid $10,000,000. That's at least 100,000,000,000 dollars right there. Not to mention the thousands(millions?) of soldiers, scientists, engineers, and bystanders who would need the same amount.

That would break 1,000,000,000,000 dollars. Making it the biggest government pay check ever.

That entire post was a huge assumption based on your original digit. It could have been a much smaller amount. But my theory is there is some secret organization. Once you join the organisation you are monitored constantly by other people working above you. The pay is amazing but if you step out of line at all then they make sure you don't exist anymore. But I really don't know what to think when it comes to this matter because we really don't know how much money the government has. We may think we do based on certain information but they own the information.

At 1/18/08 07:44 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote: Brainface, how about instead of just saying you just believe the videos, you bring up a single fucking point. We'll debunk it,

"We'll debunk it"? No you're not. Whatever website you link to is going to debunk it, not you. You're not proving it wrong, you're just linking to other people who have (apparently) proved it wrong. You don't know the legitemacy of any of the debunk sites or any of the conspiracy sites for that matter. But instead of taking my point and immediately searching for a link that "proves" me wrong and satisfies you being right Why not just try considering it.

and if you don't chanr you're mind, you're a hardheaded brainwashed teenager who thinks he is right about everything.

Just because I don't believe in some of the links provided at the 9/11 debunk site?

for example: http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/hijack eWr.htm

I happen to be a stupid hardheaded teenager also, but I don't believe shit when it's already been debunked thoroughly.

Those debunking sites are hardly thorough.

Bring us a single fucking point from Loose Change that would suggests clearly without a doubt that the government caused 9/11.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=
7866929448192753501

Go to 21:00

Be prepared to have your ass sourced off.

Ok. Go ahead and search for your links instead of thinking for yourself.

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At 1/19/08 04:08 PM, Grammer wrote: I challenge any conspiracy nut to debate me on 9/11 this instant.

THE CHAMPION STEPS BACK INTO THE RING

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Lol @ Canadiens who hate America because we are the Norway to their Sweden, or is it Sweden to their Norway?

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At 1/19/08 01:52 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote: The same can be said to you. You haven't done any of this research, people have and you just sit at your computer like a little sheep and let some nice little voice with creepy music and pretty pictures tell you a bunch of regurgitated bullshit

Regurgitated bullshit? Where are you getting all this? Have you watched Loose Change? It is not Regurgitated bullshit. It's simply images, facts, articles, personal accounts and opinions that you don't want (and refuse) to believe.

It's not that hard to understand (see picture) still people delude themselves after seeing a bunch of tiny pieces of an airplane.

Just because I don't believe in some of the links provided at the 9/11 debunk site?

When they address your--their I mean, "theories", prove them wrong, and they have no basis yet you still believe them regardless

No basis? Again have you even watched Loose Change?

Pentagon theory debunked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhf4BuUP_
zQ

Not satisfied. The whole lamp posts thing was pointless and the entire time I was hoping they would tell me what happened to the wings. But alas I was just shown pieces of a plane, small enough to pick up.

Loose Change issued discussed:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

You can probably spend hours reading at a consistent rate on these sites.

So what? Since when is information quanity over quality? The fact that there is more debunk sites than 9/11 conspiracy sites should have nothing to do with whether or not it's a conspiracy. This just shows that you are going with the popular opinion that fits your ideologies. In other words you believe it because the majority believes it and you want to believe it because it fits the idea you have in your head which is, "My government wouldn't do this on purpose to trick me."

Bring us a single fucking point from Loose Change that would suggests clearly without a doubt that the government caused 9/11.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=
7866929448192753501

Go to 21:00

Ugh, I had to wait so long for it to load because you were too lazy to even discuss your point.

It's hardly even a point, it's impossible for a missile to have hit the pentagon

Lol, and why is that? Because you, chocolate-penguin, said so? Or are you just deluding yourself?

and that is what most of you people believe.

Yes, well all it says is that "ZOMG, FURST TIEM IN HISTURY A PLAEN VAPORIZED!!1"

Yeah, yeah, sure ok. But you're forgetting how fucking fast the plane was going and the fact that no one ever even said it was vaporized.

There you go, you're starting to point out little exceptions or ANY reason at all that would fit your ideology. That was such a weak argument, you don't even know how fast either plane was going. And whether or not it is classified as being 'vaporized' or not has nothing to do with the fact that the wings at the pentagon dissapeared and the wings in Greece were still there and were in more than just a few tiny pieces.

Why can't you just except the fact that the Pentagon Strike doesn't make any sense instead of deluding youself with unlogical thinking.

Ok. Go ahead and search for your links instead of thinking for yourself.

Lol, and what do you think you're doing just watching these videos and mindlessly accepting everything that is said?

Mindlessly? Not at all. They present facts, pictures, and apply common sense. It doesn't take much to convince you it was a conspiracy if you watch it with an open mind.

For example: The fuselage goes through 3 rings of the pentagon cutting a perfect hole through each, yet the plane's wings barely even damage the outside of the pentagon. You don't have to be a scientist by any means to figure that this was not an airplane.

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At 1/20/08 10:16 PM, Grammer wrote: Boeing/Pentagon thing explained.

Snopes says you're wrong

This is from that link

"As the front of the Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, the outer portions of the wings likely snapped during the initial impact, "

likely snapped? why? how? says who? Afterall the plane still moves a good 50 metres through building before coming to stop. So what I'm trying to say is the initial impact barely slowed the plane down.

"then were pushed inward towards the fuselage and carried into the building's interior; "

if the wings snapped then why didn't they just fall off on the lawn instead of somehow being "carried into the buildings interior" ??

"the inner portions of the wings probably penetrated the Pentagon walls with the rest of the plane. "

how could the mass of the fuselage and the wings get through that tiny hole at the same time ??

"Any sizable portions of the wings were destroyed in the explosion or the subsequent fire. Nonetheless, damage to the building caused by the plane's wings is plainly visible in photographs, such as the one below (note the blackened sections on both sides of the impact site): "

This link doesn't even agree with itself. One minute it tells me the wings explode, the next minute it tells me they snap off but continue to go into the building through the tiny hole with the fuselage and finally it says the wing did damage to the outside of the building?

Do you guys honestly have no problem in believing that the wings partially snapped off then folded in nicely against the fuselage (before the wings could hit the pentagon no doubt) and all fit trhough that nice little hole?

I'm losing hope in you guys : (

Detailed explanation by AboveTopSecret

Multiple eye-witness accounts, with context and attribution included. Something LooseScrews won't do.

The cake is a lie, bitch

This article was interesting. It stated that there were 2 previous occurences of a plane hitting a building and only leaving a small hole. Unfortunately it doesn't link the source. So theres lot we don't know about those 2 occurences other than a plane hitting a building. In both cases the pilot was flying to avoid the building so we don't know what part of the plane hit building and at what angle.

Plane debris # 1

Is this it? How heavy is that piece? Could it have even flown that far from the impact zone? Why is it so shiny and clean if it just came out of a fireball?

Plane debris #2

It would be far from impossibe for them to put random airplane parts in the rooms of the building where they knew the missl- I mean plane was going to hit.

Holy fucking shit

It's hard to make out anything at all in that picture. Other than the outline of an airplane that was drawn on there.

Also how can the hole from the plane be so big and go so far into the building if there was no pieces of the plane big enough to make the hole?

and chocolate penguin I'll deal with your post tommorow. Don't worry I'm not running away.