Advice?(how Do Noobs Really Start?)

[ab7chan]

Hello everyone. =)

I really love watching Flash animations (especially ones that are well done), and I've dreamed of creating a somewhat unique Flash animation for a few years now.

The thing is, I'm more of a writer (I'm not super artistic; I have some skills, but not enough to make "great" movies, you know?). I'm also good at editing audio (music, sound effects, etc). Anyway, I'd really like to have my idea come to life someday soon. But right now, I'm NOT ready to start my project. I want to ask these questions first.

What I'm wondering is:

1) I don't know anyone who's into Flash (or any of my hobbies, to be honest), so right now I'm the only person working on this project. How can I assemble a team? For those of you who create Flash projects with a team, how did your team get created?

2) Again, my real passion is writing (not animating movies), but I'm also good with audio (music, sound effects, etc.), and since I'm decent with drawing I can probably do some (rough) concept art. I know my contributions are small (ie: less time-consuming) compared to what artists do...

That said, is there a good chance I'll find artists willing to help my project? (ie: they'd be doing most of the drawing, but I'll do some concept art and work on most of the storyline) Is my idea/plea realistic? Could I make it work if I compromise some way? (ex: Instead of asking 2-3 people to help me, I'll try asking 10 different people. That way, I could assign each person one scene [1-2 minutes] to draw...because 10 people = less work for everyone to do.)

3) Even though I really want to write the story (and do as little art as possible), should I learn Flash anyway? Would having knowledge of Flash (though I might only use it for "backup" reasons) make people more willing to help?

To be honest, I love what Flash can do, but I HATE using that program. It confuses me so much, and a lot of the tutorials I find DO NOT help me. I've tried some tutorials here on Newgrounds as well...and they weren't helpful, either. One tutorial asked me to do something simple. I had to move a circle around a track I drew...but I couldn't figure it out (not until several hours later, and on my own). It's like the tutorial missed a few steps. Either that, or my version of Flash is older/newer than theirs, and things have changed. x_x

...So yeah. I'd greatly appreciate any advice you can give to a person:
-Who loves animation
-Who wants to assemble a team of artist (and not overload them with work, to make things fair)
-Who wants to work on most (but not all; I'll let the team help me) of the story/audio/[some of the] concept art for a series, but does NOT really want to animate it.

Please help me. (><;) I have no clue how to get started, or if my ideas are practical.

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[Cryoma]

If you hired a bundle of people (10 or so) and they each did their number, you would have 10 short pieces with 10 different animation styles, following the same storyline.
That my friend, is a collaboration.
I understand how you feel about hating flash, I feel the same way about knitting >8[
But it will be pretty hard to have other people do all the grunt work for you, unless the story is really good, and they get paid.
Who knows, maybe you could be a great screenplay writer and everyone will want to animate for you.
Good luck!

[Bobby444]

A person like you who is rubbish at drawing should take the actionscript path. When I decided this it felt like jumping into a deep hole and saying bye bye to what I wanted to do. But, then, I realised that possibilities were yet to come. Look at some NG tutorials and make some games using the script, but don't upload them yet. The beast way to learn is by doing, and you can make your storylines into games as well. Meet up with a Animator and make something good. Try this link for loooooooooads of Actionscript. Good luck.

[UnknownFury]

At 1/12/08 05:44 AM, Bobby444 wrote: Stuff about AS

He said that hes decent at drawing but doesn't have the desire to animate. I think if your pasionate about your writing then stick with it and maybe search for the writers club here on NG or make a topic on flash with a story you've writen and see if anyone wants to animate it.

[Luis]

I think being a good writer is good enough incentive to go into animating.. theres series that are wildly successful purely based on the wit and writing rather than the beautiful art work..

If you look at characters like fancy pants and johnny rocketfingers, they are glorified stick men, which are fairly easy to make by anyone but the artists have found ways of giving them their own personality. I dont think you being rubbish at drawing should necessarily be a hurdle. If you really have the desire to create you should just create ... simple characters can be a sucessful franchise

[Darkaxl]

At 1/12/08 08:15 AM, Luis wrote: I dont think you being rubbish at drawing should necessarily be a hurdle. If you really have the desire to create you should just create ... simple characters can be a sucessful franchise

Just look at pacman.

[black-raven]

At 1/12/08 08:59 AM, Darkaxl wrote:

At 1/12/08 08:15 AM, Luis wrote: I dont think you being rubbish at drawing should necessarily be a hurdle. If you really have the desire to create you should just create ... simple characters can be a sucessful franchise

Just look at pacman.

your saying pacman has a story???

well your text makes u seem serious and that's a good thing , i'm pretty sure if u look around enough that u'll find a animator with a lack of ideas, and then u should try to team up with him, that u make the story and he animates it, compromising as it goes along,

i find that i have not so many ideas, but u also think of my self as a good animator and artist to animate other people's ideas,+ the fact that i'm a lazy bum who doesn't work fast :) but i'm pretty sure if u look hard enough u'll find a desent artist that wants to work with a story writer, and else u can do like some already told u, make a crappy carachter with lots of personality :), my entry for a collab wasn't the greatest art but because it had a desent length and a story it was good enough for the collab (wich isn't out yet) :)

hope this helps u.

[kaiser-d]

the best way to get better at something is to not fall into the trap of trying to produce a masterpiece if you do not yet have the skills to do so. Rather it is easier to look at each project you do as an opportunity to learn something that will make your next one better. When you can visualize every step of what you need to do for that one gem you intend to create, then you are ready to do it. Until then, try working on smaller things that are closer to your own skill level and build your skills over time. Jumping into something you are not ready for will only make you frustrated lose confidence.

I can tell you from personal experience that frame by frame animation is one of the quickest ways to tighten up your drawing skills. Use the onionskin feature, and you will learn how to draw the forms that you want pretty quickly, cause you have the last one there for reference. After that, it's just a matter of practicing drawing clean basic shapes, and knowing how to put them together to make a slick looking character.

If you are good at math, actionscript won't be too hard to learn, but it is ungodly frustrating. This gets to be less so as you learn, cause you will begin to know what the common problems that make things not work are, and you will have a better understanding of how to find them, analyze them, and fix them.

Knowing how to write well is a significant bonus, but there are too many written gems that go unnoticed because the writer did not want to take the steps to bring them to fruition. If you really want to succeed in the flash arena, you need to learn flash. The more you can bring to the table, the more likely it is that someone else talented in an area that you are not will want to help you out.

[ab7chan]

Thank you all for the very kind comments/suggestions. ^^

I have a few more questions:

1) Is drawing on the computer basically the same as drawing by hand (ie: you should start with a "stick figure frame", then make a circle for the head and build off that, etc.)? Is drawing by computer a bit easier than drawing by hand?

2) Is there a way to make templates (ie: I draw a character from a multitude of angles) and re-use them as needed?

3) Is there a command/plugin/program that can help me make (for lack of a better term) "smart" templates? In other words, let's say I drew this:
http://www.geocities.com/gmn_chick/ms-st ick-figure_1.gif

If I draw that, is there a command/plugin/program that will "guess" the angles of the picture, like this:
http://www.geocities.com/gmn_chick/ms-st ick-figure_2.gif

This would of course mean I don't have to draw that many positions/angles.

...Or is this basically what "tweening" is/does?

[proflashsional]

At 1/13/08 02:48 AM, ab7chan wrote: http://www.geocities.com/gmn_chick/ms-st ick-figure_2.gif

flash cant do this. for my 3d stuff i use inventor. it takes skill to work in it. but you can look for tuts.

[ab7chan]

@proflashsional: Does Inventor only work with 3D/computer-generated models? What if I want the image to look "hand-drawn" (even if it is computer generated)?

I'm sure what I'm asking for now can probably be done with something VERY complex and VERY expensive. So I'll stop asking questions (and finding ways to cop out of doing the work. xD) and actually start practicing today. =D

Ooh, and I have another question:

1) If I want to make really detailed backgrounds (that are based on something in real life), can I take a realistic photograph and "change" its art style, like this:
http://www.geocities.com/gmn_chick/conve rt-real-pictures.gif

[Dizeaze]

Congratulations!

You just posted the most intelligent post in Newgrounds history!

You get a cookie!

[kaiser-d]

there are ways to do all of the stuff you are talking about with programs (illustrator can help a lot for example), but the methods are long and complicated, and it will take you far more effort to learn them and do them than it would to just practice drawing. As for drawing on the computer, it can look good if you get the hang of it, but you will never be better at drawing form on the computer than you are on paper. Coloring and shading are another issue, but you will find that if you try to find shortcuts to avoid drawing, you will be spending far more time than if you just learned to draw better.

The most helpful tip anyone ever gave me with my drawing is "don't use your wrist" move your whole arm and keep your wrist locked, and you will find that you are drawing much more smoothly almost immediately. Also draw light, and darken your lines when you have shapes that you are satisfied with, don't try to do the final outline right away, leave it kinda scribbly and rough until you have everything roughly where you want it (called a gesture drawing, if you want to look it up), then darken your contour lines, and erase the excess. Also, draw the whole shape, even the parts that are not visible, then erase the extra lines later (if you are drawing a tin can for example, draw a full oval for the bottom, even though you only see half of it). This stuff should help you with any type of drawing you do, whether on paper or on the computer.

[ab7chan]

@Dizeaze: I'm honored (and shocked/a little sad). I'm the most intelligent n00b you've ever seen here? Really??

...But yay, I get a cookie!! =D

@kaiser-d: Thanks for the drawing tips. I'll have to try that "drawing without moving my wrists" tip (which sounds REALLY tricky to do, LOL.)

So you're saying I should focus more on hand drawing than computer drawing, right? Do you think this would be the best way to do Flash animations as well (ie: draw my layouts/character outlines, then scan them to the system)?

Also...do you know what's the best way to "clean up" scanned images? I usually use Microsoft Paint (has fewer options [so it's easier to use], but it takes a looong time)...and I know Paint probably isn't the best program to use.

So yeah. I probably need to learn how to use Flash AND PhotoShop/Paint Shop Pro, don't I? ><;;

[Dizeaze]

At 1/14/08 09:40 PM, ab7chan wrote: @Dizeaze: I'm honored (and shocked/a little sad). I'm the most intelligent n00b you've ever seen here? Really??

No, not you o.o

[pickleman77]

At 1/13/08 05:58 PM, ab7chan wrote: Ooh, and I have another question:

1) If I want to make really detailed backgrounds (that are based on something in real life), can I take a realistic photograph and "change" its art style, like this:
http://www.geocities.com/gmn_chick/conve rt-real-pictures.gif

If you want to cartoonize (or vectorize) an image, I would recommend VectorMagic I don't really use it for flash, but it's a neat site nonetheless.