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what are immagrants doing to hurt the us?

discuss

To hurt us? Well, for most unemployed people, it creates a lack of jobs and work for legal immigrants or citizens of the country. America has the worst case of illegal immigrants hopping the fence (no races shall be mentioned), but particularly people from the Southern American countries.

well if the unemployed would be competitive and offer to work longer, or for less, or go to college and get a better job. they wouldent have job openings taken

At 1/5/08 09:53 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: well if the unemployed would be competitive and offer to work longer, or for less, or go to college and get a better job. they wouldent have job openings taken

They do not pay taxes, yet still use tax-funded services. This is a drain on the economy.
They commit unbelievable amounts of crime, too.

At 1/5/08 09:53 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: well if the unemployed would be competitive and offer to work longer, or for less, or go to college and get a better job. they wouldent have job openings taken

Because, you know, Americans want to work for $1 an hour.

At 1/5/08 09:58 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 1/5/08 09:53 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: well if the unemployed would be competitive and offer to work longer, or for less, or go to college and get a better job. they wouldent have job openings taken

Because, you know, Americans want to work for $1 an hour.

well, they could go to college and get a real job.
but if illegal immagrants are taking their jobs, they should do what they needed to to keep their job instead of whining about people who actually work for an honest living

At 1/5/08 10:03 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

but if illegal immagrants are taking their jobs, they should do what they needed to to keep their job instead of whining about people who actually work for an honest living

We have minimum wage for a reason.

At 1/5/08 10:05 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:03 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

but if illegal immagrants are taking their jobs, they should do what they needed to to keep their job instead of whining about people who actually work for an honest living

We have minimum wage for a reason.

so you're saying that americans are lazy?

One of the big things is that a significant portion of the money they make here is sent to their families in Mexico. The strength of an economy is determined by how much money is circulating so, if there's a release valve sending a good chunk of it to be circulated in Mexico, it puts a real damper on our own economy.

At 1/5/08 10:07 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:05 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:03 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

but if illegal immagrants are taking their jobs, they should do what they needed to to keep their job instead of whining about people who actually work for an honest living

We have minimum wage for a reason.

so you're saying that americans are lazy?

This thread has been done before, and the short version of this will consist in Cellar comming in here, and completely destroying you. Before that happens however, I would like to take my shots.

1. Illegal immigrants work for less because it is illegal to hire them, and so businesses which are less than ethical can pay them less than what the work they are doing is worth. Usually this is below minimum wage as Mez has already pointed out. Do the math, for the average 40 hour work week that is 40 bucks before Uncle Sam takes his cut of about 30% which leaves a mighty 28 dollars. Try paying for a tank of gas with that.

2. The citizens of a country should not be forced to fight for jobs from going to people who cannot legally work them to begin with in their own country.

3. College is not for everyone, some people just can't get through it. Does that mean they shouldn't get jobs that they can be able to, or are able to do?

4. As has been already been pointed out, illegal immigrants can, and do, use social services which are funded by taxes, which illegal immigrants do not pay.

5. Illegal immigrants cause more crime, which has been shown time and again in the many reincarnations of this thread.

At 1/5/08 09:45 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: what are immagrants doing to hurt the us?

discuss

it hurt us in the same way slavery hurt economy

lets say you run a warehouse you need a lot of workers to run it now you can hire legal workers for $10.50 per hour or you can hire illegal worker for $1.00 per hour you would go with the illegal worker right now if that happens more and more legal citizens lose jobs and a lot more and illegal workers don't need to pay taxes so taxes may also go up thats why we should deport them and increase border security.

At 1/5/08 10:12 PM, Gunter45 wrote: One of the big things is that a significant portion of the money they make here is sent to their families in Mexico. The strength of an economy is determined by how much money is circulating so, if there's a release valve sending a good chunk of it to be circulated in Mexico, it puts a real damper on our own economy.

actually, the economy gets less inflated

At 1/5/08 10:03 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: well, they could go to college and get a real job.

College costs money. To get money, you first need a job. If they're all being taken by people who don't pay taxes, send to money south, and work for less, how will people get jobs to pay for college? You have to think about things.

but if illegal immagrants are taking their jobs, they should do what they needed to to keep their job instead of whining about people who actually work for an honest living

Like what? My mom works for a tellecommunications company at the administrative level. She makes roughly $28 an hour. She is probably gonna be laid off next week, regardless of her status as one of the hardest working and most able employees there, because her company is outsourcing jobs to India, where workers work for half as much and twice as long.

What is she supposed to do to counteract this? There isn't anything she can do. She could.... yeah, there's nothing.

Illegal immigrants is the same concept. They get paid under the table, and thus don't need minimum wage, so employers hire them instead of resident workers who RELY on minimum wage or higher income to pay for bills, rent, food, etc., in a system that necessitates such an amount of money to do so. Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes and send money to people who live in their native country where, more often than not, people can subside on a fraction of what we need to to do so here.

Not only does that harmfully impact legal citizen workers, but saps the economy as a whole of its recources.

So... Why is this an ignorable and irrelevant issue again?

At 1/5/08 10:17 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: actually, the economy gets less inflated

Right, and that's called deflation. Deflation means your economy is stagnating, which is exactly what I said.

Look your shit up before you disagree with something.

At 1/5/08 10:17 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:12 PM, Gunter45 wrote: One of the big things is that a significant portion of the money they make here is sent to their families in Mexico. The strength of an economy is determined by how much money is circulating so, if there's a release valve sending a good chunk of it to be circulated in Mexico, it puts a real damper on our own economy.

actually, the economy gets less inflated

Do you understand economics at all?

Inflation is the result of high demand, low supply and limited resources. If we somehow had infinite resources and capital to throw around, the economy wouldn't be an issue at all, but we're bound by limitations and thus have economic theory and practice to decide how to use and distribute the LIMITED resources we have.

Send our resources away, we have less to work with, more to worry about, and more inflation. Not less.

At 1/5/08 09:57 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 1/5/08 09:53 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: well if the unemployed would be competitive and offer to work longer, or for less, or go to college and get a better job. they wouldent have job openings taken

They do not pay taxes, yet still use tax-funded services. This is a drain on the economy.

this is a very good point

They commit unbelievable amounts of crime, too.

this is a racist, unfunny, untrue, ignorant statement only to be said by someone who has absolutly no tollerance for anything diffrent.

At 1/5/08 10:31 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: this is a racist, unfunny, untrue, ignorant statement only to be said by someone who has absolutly no tollerance for anything diffrent.

Actually, it is an undeniable fact, even with the propaganda and bullshit aside, that illegal immigrants have higher rates of criminal activity then legal residents.

At 1/5/08 10:31 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

They commit unbelievable amounts of crime, too.

this is a racist, unfunny, untrue, ignorant statement only to be said by someone who has absolutly no tollerance for anything diffrent.

It wasn't racist... it was based on facts and numbers:
"In the population study of a sample of 55,322 illegal aliens, researchers found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990."
Source

At 1/5/08 09:57 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 1/5/08 09:53 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: well if the unemployed would be competitive and offer to work longer, or for less, or go to college and get a better job. they wouldent have job openings taken

They do not pay taxes, yet still use tax-funded services. This is a drain on the economy.

this is a good point

They commit unbelievable amounts of crime, too.

this is an unfunny, unbeliveably racist, simple minded statement only said by someone to ignorant to think otherwise

At 1/5/08 10:24 PM, Gunter45 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:17 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: actually, the economy gets less inflated

Right, and that's called deflation. Deflation means your economy is stagnating, which is exactly what I said.

Look your shit up before you disagree with something.

it increases the value of the dollar, which the american economy needs

At 1/5/08 10:38 PM, Christopherr wrote:

It wasn't racist... it was based on facts and numbers:

that is an opinionated scource, like fox. it makes immagrants sound worse than they really are

My problem is that we cannot guarantee their civil rights. By living here illegally they can be preyed upon by crooked employers and landlords. Think about it, what if a woman who was in the US illegally went in for a job interview and the guy doing the hiring offers her an ultimatum: Screw me and get a job paying below minimum wage...or I call immigration.

What about the extremists who live in sparsely populated areas where they could kill illegals crossing their lands...with no one to report them missing and MILES in which to hide a body no one is looking for...they could become easy prey for murderers.

Then there are things like injuries on the job where their employers talk them out of getting medical attention when they should.

and someone mentioned this i think but when theres a struggle and comeption for jobs in the lower class

gangs often form as a way to protect members and promote a certain ethnicity in a buisness like the latino kings of NY formed early on and were actually respected orginization for a while too

At 1/5/08 10:12 PM, Gunter45 wrote: One of the big things is that a significant portion of the money they make here is sent to their families in Mexico. The strength of an economy is determined by how much money is circulating so, if there's a release valve sending a good chunk of it to be circulated in Mexico, it puts a real damper on our own economy.

So does vacationing in other places other than the United States.
You make your money, you can send it to anyone who you like (save for money launderers, specific peoples, countries and organizations-- all clearly stated in all banks rules such as HMDA, USA PATRIOT act, and another one I can't remember right now.)

At 1/5/08 10:44 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:24 PM, Gunter45 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:17 PM, Antimatter500 wrote: actually, the economy gets less inflated

Right, and that's called deflation. Deflation means your economy is stagnating, which is exactly what I said.

Look your shit up before you disagree with something.

it increases the value of the dollar, which the american economy needs

no it ruins the economy if you look at any of our arguments and what good is a dollar if no one has one to spend.

At 1/5/08 10:47 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:38 PM, Christopherr wrote: It wasn't racist... it was based on facts and numbers:

that is an opinionated scource, like fox. it makes immagrants sound worse than they really are

Err, numbers aren't opinionated. They didn't make up the numbers--they just collected them.

If I told you that I had 25 beautiful wonderful loving dogs, you would learn that I had 25 dogs.
On the flipside, if I told you I had 25 ugly evil motherfucking dogs, you would still learn that I had 25 dogs.

They could put as much spin on the article as they want, but the numbers would still remain the same.

At 1/5/08 10:07 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:05 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 1/5/08 10:03 PM, Antimatter500 wrote:

but if illegal immagrants are taking their jobs, they should do what they needed to to keep their job instead of whining about people who actually work for an honest living

We have minimum wage for a reason.

so you're saying that americans are lazy?

My friend, I have to agree with everyone that responded before you said "so you're saying that americans are lazy?"

At 1/5/08 10:53 PM, fli wrote: So does vacationing in other places other than the United States.

Spending money in other states still helps the United States economy which, consequently, is what I was talking about.

My friend, I have to agree with everyone that responded before you said "so you're saying that americans are lazy?"

Now that I've read the whole thread, the majority in the people that are disagreeing is absolutly right. I can't say anything to add on to it. I would have said the same, or similar thing.

Interesting idea here guys. how about punishing the companies that hire Illegal immigrants instead of just the immigrants themselves.

I'm crazy I know.