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At 12/27/07 05:57 PM, WolvenBear wrote:

At 12/27/07 05:09 PM, TehChahlesh wrote: I gave my reason damnit.

Because she's like a monster in a movie. Sound reason.
W.A.D.

Or are you talking about that she causes "controversy"? Another sound reason!

And she enjoys it! OH NOES!

I'm sorry, you did provide a reason, it was just inane, and partially ad hominim.

She's an opportunist that likes to make remarks that stir up controversy. It's how she sells her books. I dislike that because it's shameless.

Perhaps my original way of saying that was too high-brow for you.

At 12/27/07 08:27 PM, Musician wrote:

At 12/27/07 04:47 PM, WolvenBear wrote: I love the fact that nobody here is giving a reason for their hatred

Jews need to be "perfected" by becoming Christian...

Which is a Christian belief.

Christians believe they are former Jews, perfected by the addition of Christ and his ministry to former Judaic doctrine. Therefore Christians believe they are themselves perfected Jews.

It's not a racist remark she's making, she's making a religious point that is foundational to Christianity. The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, this is a fact. Christians believe they are basically Jews who believe the Messiah, Jesus Christ, has already come. Therefore it's not a matter of bigotry at all to believe that the Jews are missing something, and therefore additional doctrine would perfect their religion that although is true, is not entirely true because it's missing something, according to Christianity.

You can't expect someone to abandon their beliefs just because people like you with no knowledge of religion and no desire to see things in context will pounce on it and misinterpret it.

I love the hatred she get's out of her enemies, But i hate the fact that she views Christianity so highly... It doesn't deserve the credit she gives it; not on the whole anyway.

At 12/27/07 08:39 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/27/07 08:27 PM, Musician wrote:

At 12/27/07 04:47 PM, WolvenBear wrote: I love the fact that nobody here is giving a reason for their hatred

Jews need to be "perfected" by becoming Christian...

Which is a Christian belief.

An extremist Christian belief maybe. Saying that Jews need to be perfected by becoming Christians is basically saying Jews are inferior to Christians. Most people with any amount of religious tolerance don't believe this.

On a side note, there was a man in somewhat recent history who would probably agree with Ann

The one flaw in that argument is that Jews were flawed because they're society was deliberately attempting to corrupt and destroy germany, as opposed to having beliefs that are 'of the book, but not fufilled'

I forgot where the term of the book comes from...

At 12/27/07 09:00 PM, Musician wrote:

At 12/27/07 08:39 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/27/07 08:27 PM, Musician wrote:

At 12/27/07 04:47 PM, WolvenBear wrote: I love the fact that nobody here is giving a reason for their hatred

Jews need to be "perfected" by becoming Christian...

Which is a Christian belief.

An extremist Christian belief maybe.

Um a foundational Christian belief that is no different than similar beliefs in basically all religions where they believe their religion has more truth than others.

Saying that Jews need to be perfected by becoming Christians is basically saying Jews are inferior to Christians.

No it's not. First of all, both Jews and Christians believe that Jews are the chosen people.

Secondly, i's saying that they have not received Christ, which Christians believe is essentially the only difference between Jews and modern Christians. Christians still have Jewish beliefs, they still have the old testament which is the Jewish Torah, and the split between the two religions occurred during the time of Christ. They simply believe that the Jews missed out on addition knowledge, and are continuing to look for their Messiah, which Christians believe has already come.

And Jews believe Christians are inferior to Jews according to your logic considering Jews believe that they are the only true religion as well, and will openly say that Christ was not the Messiah, and that therefore Christians have been made imperfect by false doctrine.

Most people with any amount of religious tolerance don't believe this.

People who are afraid of political correctness Nazis and actually have no desire to see things objectively will not say it aloud.

People who are honest and forthright in their beliefs will say exactly what they believe even if they know that some people will misinterpret it and take it out of context due to predetermined biases and continuing efforts to demonize them.

On a side note, there was a man in somewhat recent history who would probably agree with Ann

That's pretty dumb.

Find where Ann Coulter said that Jews should be eradicated, that they are genetically inferior, that they are a plague to the world, and so forth.

And...go.

He probably can Cellar.... i wouldn't be surprised if ann said something similar to that, you will probably have to split some hairs.

At 12/27/07 06:31 PM, Bookman60 wrote: That particular statement could describe several members of the board.

And to...oh...pretty much anyone in political commentary.

At 12/27/07 08:27 PM, Musician wrote: Jews need to be "perfected" by becoming Christian...

she's kinda like Jack Thompson, not somebody to be taken seriously.

Except she didn't say Jews needed to be perfected. She said Christians believe they are perfected Jews. Which, albeit sloppy, is what Christians believe.

At 12/27/07 08:29 PM, TehChahlesh wrote: She's an opportunist that likes to make remarks that stir up controversy. It's how she sells her books. I dislike that because it's shameless.

She says what she believes and people buy her books because of it.

Perhaps my original way of saying that was too high-brow for you.

If you consider calling someone a monster high brow...I can loan you a couple three stooges DVDs. You'll think youre at the Opera!

Again, or your point could just be inane.

At 12/27/07 08:58 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I love the hatred she get's out of her enemies, But i hate the fact that she views Christianity so highly... It doesn't deserve the credit she gives it; not on the whole anyway.

Well, she gives Christianity such credit because...she's a Christian.

And it deserves far more credit than she gives it.

At 12/27/07 09:00 PM, Musician wrote: An extremist Christian belief maybe.

No, it's THE Christian view that Jesus perfected the teaching of the Jews. If one doesn't hold that belief...they're not a Christian. They may not say it out loud, but all Christians believe that.

Saying that Jews need to be perfected by becoming Christians is basically saying Jews are inferior to Christians.

Except she didn't say Jews need to be perfected. And your own link has the transcript.
And their belief system IS inferior.

Most people with any amount of religious tolerance don't believe this.

All Christians and Muslims believe this. Actually, everyone who's not a Jew believes their belief system to be superior. That's why they're not Jews.

And yes, that includes you.

On a side note, there was a man in somewhat recent history who would probably agree with Ann

Yes. His name was Jesus/.

At 12/27/07 09:25 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: He probably can Cellar.... i wouldn't be surprised if ann said something similar to that, you will probably have to split some hairs.

There's absolutely no way that Ann Coulter has said anything that is actually Hitleresque.

Saying that the Jews need to be perfected by Christ is a religious belief, and a common one at that. It applies to all non-Christians, considering Christians believe that Jesus is the savior of all mankind at that everyone needs Christ to be perfected.

I doublt she's said anything that would imply the kind of all-encompassing hatred of Jews that Hitler in which he said they were genetically inferior, that they were a blight to the earth, and that they needed to be destroyed.

At 12/27/07 09:30 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/27/07 09:25 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: He probably can Cellar.... i wouldn't be surprised if ann said something similar to that, you will probably have to split some hairs.

There's absolutely no way that Ann Coulter has said anything that is actually Hitleresque.

I actually never said she was like Hitler if you look at my post I only said that he would agree with her views of the Jews needing "perfecting". But hell if I must oblige:

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians.

to her credit sometimes I wonder if she's actually just a liberal just making poking fun at conservatives with these over the edge extremist views. You know, like Stephen Colbert.

At 12/27/07 10:01 PM, Musician wrote:

At 12/27/07 09:30 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/27/07 09:25 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: He probably can Cellar.... i wouldn't be surprised if ann said something similar to that, you will probably have to split some hairs.

There's absolutely no way that Ann Coulter has said anything that is actually Hitleresque.

I actually never said she was like Hitler if you look at my post I only said that he would agree with her views of the Jews needing "perfecting".

Which Hitler never said about Jews.

But hell if I must oblige:

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians.

First, that was in reference to Muslim countries shortly after 9/11. Not Jews.

Secondly, if you believe she was actually proposing this then you're not thinking clearly.

This guy puts it very well:

I began running Coulter columns on Frontpagemag.com shortly after she came up with her most infamous line, which urged America to put jihadists to the sword and convert them to Christianity. Liberals were horrified; I was not. I thought to myself, this is a perfect send-up of what our Islamo-fascist enemies believe - that as infidels we should be put to the sword and converted to Islam. I regarded Coulter's phillipic as a Swiftian commentary on liberal illusions of multi-cultural outreach to people who want to rip out our hearts.

---

"Jesus' distinctive message was: People are sinful and need to be redeemed, and this is your lucky day because I'm here to redeem you even though you don't deserve it"

Yeah, she's a stupid bitch.

She made the "Kill their leaders and convert the countries to Christianity" comment because that is precisely what the majority of Muslim countries would like to do, even our so-called allies.

The whole "Jews need to perfected" thing really didn't bother me. She'd rather I be christian, O.K. In her perfect world everyone would be saved by Jesus. She is not saying advocating the Spanish inquisition

NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION

Anyway the stupidest thing she said was when she laughed at, I think it was kruger, for insinuating that portraying the Jews as christ killers could somehow incite anti-semitism.

At 12/27/07 10:01 PM, Musician wrote: I actually never said she was like Hitler if you look at my post I only said that he would agree with her views of the Jews needing "perfecting". But hell if I must oblige:

Quite summary: "Christians are perfected Jews. We'd love all teh Jews to become perfected."
Or become Christian. Jesus get off it.

And Hitler wanted them dead.

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians.

Cellar covered this.

to her credit sometimes I wonder if she's actually just a liberal just making poking fun at conservatives with these over the edge extremist views. You know, like Stephen Colbert.

Nope. Pure conservative. Because, unlike Colbert, she's right...not obnoxious and fake.

\At 12/27/07 10:32 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

"Jesus' distinctive message was: People are sinful and need to be redeemed, and this is your lucky day because I'm here to redeem you even though you don't deserve it"

Yeah, she's a stupid bitch.

Which is a neat way of summing up Christianity's belief system really.

You're a moron.

At 12/27/07 11:15 PM, therealsylvos wrote: Anyway the stupidest thing she said was when she laughed at, I think it was kruger, for insinuating that portraying the Jews as christ killers could somehow incite anti-semitism.

Please link to this. I'd have to see the context.

However it is REALLY stupid to say that mentioning that "Jesus was given up to Pontius Pilate by teh Jews" will incite anti-Semitism.

At 12/28/07 01:03 AM, WolvenBear wrote:
Please link to this. I'd have to see the context.

However it is REALLY stupid to say that mentioning that "Jesus was given up to Pontius Pilate by teh Jews" will incite anti-Semitism.

Jesus' suffering and death is not a Hatfields-and-McCoys story demanding retaliation.

Now I'll admit this article read a lot better than I remembered, and even though she is right, all that means is she doesn't condone it, however, throughout history retaliation WAS sought, so the point is moot.

At 12/28/07 01:19 AM, therealsylvos wrote: Jesus' suffering and death is not a Hatfields-and-McCoys story demanding retaliation.

Now I'll admit this article read a lot better than I remembered, and even though she is right, all that means is she doesn't condone it, however, throughout history retaliation WAS sought, so the point is moot.

The entire premise of the article is idiotic. Why would the Passion incite anti-Semitic violence? Who would get violent?

What fool thinks this movie will inspire violence? The last 80 Christian movies that showed the crucifiction didnt. Jacob's Ladder didn't inspire anti-German hate crimes. Munich didn't cause anti-Muslim hate crimes. Etc.

The whole premise is insane.

At 12/28/07 03:47 AM, WolvenBear wrote:

The entire premise of the article is idiotic. Why would the Passion incite anti-Semitic violence? Who would get violent?

What fool thinks this movie will inspire violence? The last 80 Christian movies that showed the crucifiction didnt. Jacob's Ladder didn't inspire anti-German hate crimes. Munich didn't cause anti-Muslim hate crimes. Etc.

The whole premise is insane.

I'll admit that, that it was just a movie, but the stance she took was that it was laughable that depicting jews as christ killers would incite anti-semitic violence, and if you thought that, you clearly know nothing about Christianity.
But its a stupid stance since that has been the cause of anti-semitic violence throughout history up till today.

At 12/28/07 12:03 PM, therealsylvos wrote: I'll admit that, that it was just a movie, but the stance she took was that it was laughable that depicting jews as christ killers would incite anti-semitic violence, and if you thought that, you clearly know nothing about Christianity.
But its a stupid stance since that has been the cause of anti-semitic violence throughout history up till today.

If by "up until today" you mean several hundred years ago, then yes. If however, you mean up until a period of RECENT history then...no.

You're trying to justify a moronic opinion with ANCIENT history. "Because back in the Middle Ages some priests said 'Who killed Jesus? THE JEWS!'...OBVIOUSLY a movie based on the crucifiction will incite anti-Semetic violence TODAY!"

I repeat, and I'll say it slower this time. The last. 60 or so movies. About Jesus. All of which. Talked about his death. And mentioned that the Jews killed him. Did not inspire. Anti-semetic violence. Therefore. It is really stupid. To expect THIS movie. To cause. Such violence.

And Gibson went out of his way to reach out to the Jewish Community in a way that no one else ever had. He screened the movie to them. They proposed changes to make it less inflammatory, and he changed several things to accomodate them.

So, to recap. Movies about Jesus don't inspire anti-Semitic violence. Gibson's movie didn't inspire anti-Semetic violence. And if someone said something as ridiculous to you as you're saying to me, only replacing the word "Jews" with Germans, and "Passion" with "Holocaust", you'd think them a moron.

Or hell, maybe I should just accuse you of trying to stir up anti-Christian violence...since you're bringing up an awkward time where a handful of Jews were injured because of some bigot priests in order to impune Christianity and Christians as a whole. You know, since you're calling us all violent bigots and saying we'll kill Jews over a frigging movie. Your statements are a HELL of a lot more inflammatory.

I'm still amazed that anyone is actually defending Ann Coulter.

Alot of her argumentative strength comes from the fact that she can draw on unfounded hate statements made against her. She mentioned in one of her books that it's not unimaginable that people look for quotes in her book to twist and put on a website along the name of

www.ihateanncoulterwithahothothate.net

I think many of the post on this forum do her a favor of being more truthful in that respect.

At 12/27/07 10:38 PM, Bookman60 wrote: She made the "Kill their leaders and convert the countries to Christianity" comment because that is precisely what the majority of Muslim countries would like to do, even our so-called allies.

So? I think America is above fundamentalist Islam states.

At 12/28/07 08:43 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote: So? I think America is above fundamentalist Islam states.

And? She made a comment to mock our enemies backwards violence.

And you get your panties in a bunch because...we'll I really don't know why. You just got told what it meant and youre still offended. Perhaps you're just stupid?

Regardless of her opinions, her "my enemies are stupid/evil" arguments have helped to set political debate in this country back to a level of petty name calling.

At 12/28/07 10:42 PM, Sigma-Lambda wrote: Regardless of her opinions, her "my enemies are stupid/evil" arguments have helped to set political debate in this country back to a level of petty name calling.

She's guilty as charged, but i've noticed something...

Every political theorist i know does that, with a few exceptions.

I seldom meet someone who didn't completely villianize their 'disagree-ers'

At 12/28/07 10:45 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: She's guilty as charged, but i've noticed something...

Every political theorist i know does that, with a few exceptions.

I seldom meet someone who didn't completely villianize their 'disagree-ers'

While she's not the only one to do that, most political characters in the U.S. aren't so vehement about it, and only do it on their more contentious issues. Meanwhile the titles of most of her books are bitter swipes at her opponents.

At 12/28/07 10:50 PM, Sigma-Lambda wrote:

Most yes, but they exist in all spectrum's.

At 12/28/07 10:50 PM, Sigma-Lambda wrote: While she's not the only one to do that, most political characters in the U.S. aren't so vehement about it, and only do it on their more contentious issues. Meanwhile the titles of most of her books are bitter swipes at her opponents.

A couple from al Franken:

"[G. W. Bush's] pro-air pollution Clear Skies Initiative is designed to clear the skies of birds."

Bush hates wildlife. Nice.

"In many ways I'm still a Hubert Humphrey Democrat -- someone who believes in afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted. A society is judged by how it treats the elderly, the sick, the impoverished. To me it's a matter of ethics and compassion."

Because his opponents don't, you see.

"During the Reagan Administration, Bob Dole was present at a ceremony that included each living ex-president. Looking at a tableau of Ford, Carter and Nixon, Dole said, 'There they are: Hear No Evil, See No Evil and Evil.'"

Charming. Republicans are stupid or evil.

I think we get teh point there.

Michael Moore:

"Many families have been devastated tonight. This is just not right. They did not deserve to die. ... If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him. Boston, New York, D.C., and the planes' destination of California - these were the places that voted AGAINST Bush. "

It's rare that things leave me speechless. That did. It's one of the most disgusting pieces of political agitprop I've ever read.

"We know all those facts about Florida and what Katherine Harris did, and the private firm that took African-Americans off the voting rolls and prohibited them from voting. But I've been surprised in this first week how many average Americans were not aware of all of the trickery and deceit that took place in the year before the election to fix it for George W. Bush. "

Bush won because the Florida Republicans were racist! Huzzah!

"These bastards who run our country are a bunch of conniving, thieving, smug pricks who need to be brought down and removed and replaced with a whole new system that we control."

Yea, no one but Ann Coulter is coarse.

Hmmm how about someone else?

How about Al Gore calling Bush a terrorist?

"Terrorism relies on the stimulation of fear for political ends. Indeed, its specific goal is to distort the political reality of a nation by creating fear in the general population that is hugely disproportionate to the actual danger that the terrorists are capable of posing. Ironically, President Bush's response to the terrorist attack of September 11 was, in effect, to further distort America's political reality by creating a new fear of Iraq that was hugely disproportionate to the actual danger Iraq was capable of posing. "

Rosie O'Donnell:
""No, but I do believe it's the first time in history that fire has melted steel - I do believe that it defies physics for the World Trade Center Building 7, which collapsed in on itself, it is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved - World Trade Center 7." "One and two got hit by planes, 7 miraculously, the first time in history, steel was melted by fire - it is physically impossible," "I don't know but to say we don't know and it was imploded in a demolition is beyond ignorant, look at the films get a physics expert here from Yale, from Harvard, pick the school, it defies reason."

Spectacular, 9/11 was an inside job.

Joy Behar:
You have to put, like, a Hitler type [on the cover]," Behar said in response to a question about whether the publication's selection of "You" was appropriate.
"Like, you put Donald Rumsfeld there, or something," she said.

Rumsfeld=Hitler!

Oh yea, no one else is as rude as Coulter. Yawn.

At 12/28/07 08:43 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 12/27/07 10:38 PM, Bookman60 wrote: She made the "Kill their leaders and convert the countries to Christianity" comment because that is precisely what the majority of Muslim countries would like to do, even our so-called allies.

So? I think America is above fundamentalist Islam states.

You misunderstand, she was saying that to highlight what they would do, not that we should do that.
It's called irony.

At 12/28/07 06:31 PM, WolvenBear wrote:
If by "up until today" you mean several hundred years ago, then yes. If however, you mean up until a period of RECENT history then...no.

If by ancient history you mean...18 days ago, then yes.
"He said, 'Happy Hanukkah, that's when the Jews killed Jesus,' " said Adler.

You're trying to justify a moronic opinion with ANCIENT history. "Because back in the Middle Ages some priests said 'Who killed Jesus? THE JEWS!'...OBVIOUSLY a movie based on the crucifiction will incite anti-Semetic violence TODAY!"

I repeat, and I'll say it slower this time. The last. 60 or so movies. About Jesus. All of which. Talked about his death. And mentioned that the Jews killed him. Did not inspire. Anti-semetic violence. Therefore. It is really stupid. To expect THIS movie. To cause. Such violence.

If you looked at what I said. I made it clear that I believed that, the "I admit..." part. My whole point was coulter insinuating that the Libs who believe that the depiction of Jews as Christ killers know nothing about Christianity.