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Hmmm, how long has science been around?
I mean how long has it been since we created this form of understanding things, theres no possible way to prove that things like magic aren't real, there is energy out there we have no comprehension of,
so instead of trying to argue with things made up by people who are long dead and cannot defend their idea, how about we focus on what the fuck is going on now.
Reality as we know it is a very unfriendly place indeed, does that mean the entire universe is?
If our planet were created so easily as they say scientifically as it may have been, wouldn't there be any real concern that maybe there are more planets out there that have our kind of system to support life?
There is no way to prove that right now, but there really is nothing that proves it to be wrong.

So basically the meaning of this post is that no one knows anything for certain, things happen that no one can explain, so what now? You can argue over science and religion all you want but there really is no hard evidence or facts that support either of these theories.

Explain to me why atoms move, what makes them move, and how were they themselves created, like some newtons law, atoms are neither created or destroyed, how the fuck did they get there then?
The proof that we exist is the proof that there is one single power maybe even many others which created us and created all the things that this universe is made of. I'm probably starting to sound likea philosopher er something lol, but it is true.
There is proof that we exist..... look at yourself in the mirror, pinch yourself,you are real, what more evidence do you need to explain that we were never just created by water n rocks n shit, there needs to be life before any of that stuff can exist, or maybe that stuff needs to exist before we do....hmmm they say God created us from dust, and so our bodies must return to it er somthing.
So uhm, there ya go, none of us know if there is a god, but those of us who do..... well I do, and I think I live a better life because of it.

No fuckwad.

He made this thread because Christian idiots like you say bullshit like "The Big bang/Evolution etc. is only a theory..", and he's pointing out that this implies that if it had any scientific grounding it would be a law, which isn't the case.

At 12/21/07 06:02 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: No fuckwad.

He made this thread because Christian idiots like you say bullshit like "The Big bang/Evolution etc. is only a theory..", and he's pointing out that this implies that if it had any scientific grounding it would be a law, which isn't the case.

So basically you hate yourself because you believe you will go to hell?
Or maybe something terrible happened to you to make yourself not believe in god with stupid shit like " If god existed, why would he let such bad things happen?" GROW THE FUCK UP, If you can't handle reality as it is than fucking kill yourself, it is your choice, you are responsible for every stupid fucking thing you did in your life and you cannot change it, so either grow a fucking ball sack and get the fuck over yourself or go cry yourself to sleep like the rest of you emo fagots.

I do not respect you at all for the display immaturity and rudeness, whatever fucking worthless existence you may believe yourself to be in, I for one feel sorry for you.

At 12/21/07 06:11 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

At 12/21/07 06:02 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: No fuckwad.

He made this thread because Christian idiots like you say bullshit like "The Big bang/Evolution etc. is only a theory..", and he's pointing out that this implies that if it had any scientific grounding it would be a law, which isn't the case.

So basically you hate yourself because you believe you will go to hell?
Or maybe something terrible happened to you to make yourself not believe in god with stupid shit like " If god existed, why would he let such bad things happen?" GROW THE FUCK UP, If you can't handle reality as it is than fucking kill yourself, it is your choice, you are responsible for every stupid fucking thing you did in your life and you cannot change it, so either grow a fucking ball sack and get the fuck over yourself or go cry yourself to sleep like the rest of you emo fagots.

What????? when did he say this, you make no sense... at all. You claim that he hates himself, when all he did was simplify what i said, and what i said had only one thing in common with religion, and that is that I tend to argue with people who have a religion. How can you draw from this "I hate myself because i don't have religion" You make about as much sense as this sentence: I ducky destruction apple core.

I do not respect you at all for the display immaturity and rudeness, whatever fucking worthless existence you may believe yourself to be in, I for one feel sorry for you.

AH the irony... Did you just read the paragraph you posted above that was filled with ad hominem attacks, and blatant assumptions. Then you claim that HE is the immature one, wow

shaggy, no one here mentioned 9/11, the NWO or Kunich, you don't belong here.

At 12/21/07 06:11 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: So basically you hate yourself because you believe you will go to hell?

lol@ 18 year old believing in hell.

Or maybe something terrible happened to you to make yourself not believe in god with stupid shit like " If god existed, why would he let such bad things happen?"

Wow, okay, acting like the immature fuck that you are, you decided to ignore the points raised in my post and instead attack me for my Atheism, which is irrelevant in this thread.
And no, that is far from the reason I am an atheist, thank you very much.

GROW THE FUCK UP, If you can't handle reality as it is than fucking kill yourself, it is your choice, you are responsible for every stupid fucking thing you did in your life and you cannot change it, so either grow a fucking ball sack and get the fuck over yourself or go cry yourself to sleep like the rest of you emo fagots.

AHAHAHAHAHAH, HA. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I posted. It seems as though you are upset merely because I don't believe in god. I wasn't even debating the existence of god. I was just pointing out to you where you were wrong in why the OP made this thread.

Also, you're not very nice for a Christian ;_; lol

I do not respect you at all for the display immaturity and rudeness, whatever fucking worthless existence you may believe yourself to be in, I for one feel sorry for you.

I do not want the respect of a grown man who believes in rib women and talking snakes.

At 12/20/07 09:30 PM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

At 12/19/07 06:57 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: While the poster is correct, a theory cannot become a scientific law, but it does not mean it should never be treated as the correct asumption on the issue; especially since long standing scientific theories that persist to this day tend to be heavily backed by evidence that is constantly being re-trailed.

Actually that was the entire reason for the post, a theory isn't a law, but people keep telling me "if the theory was any more correct it would be a law, not a theory, HAH!" And that makes me angry :/

Then this should be a good time to bring in math

A postulate is something that is accepted without questioning, we have these in math because for the most part, existing postulates are very logical.

[For example, The addition postulate; "The sums of 2 equal entites are equal." or simply... [Asuming A and B mean the same thing on both sides A + B = A + B]

Some postulates, such as the postulate that only one line exists that can pass through a single point that exists between 2 parallel lines and not cross the other 2 lines were dis proven... but never the less

We need postulates because we need something to form the basis for every other theorem [A mathematical theorem is accepted as correct also, but it requires a mathematical proof, and proving something mathematically is easier on the whole since mathematical universes can be created more easily in computers than natural universes can [We can't remake a model of the universe and see how it was made... kind of a bad example]

You need a few 'laws' to get theories, otherwise you have nothing to build on.

It's easier to accept the most probable theory, but sadly humans are incapable of going beyond theories that question their purpose, Christians can't reject god, and atheists can't accept that we are slaves to cause and effect.

Wow, you guys really hate it when people own your ass.
I expect you guys to just quote this and make stupid comments about it and laugh in your ignorance, you have no power over anything.
The point I was trying to say is that you know nothing about anything, you may think you do but obviously you have nothing better to do.
Me? I love watching people pour their hearts out with insults and ridiculous lies, Iwould watch myself if I were you, because whatever you have done to force your way of thinking, it is going to come back to you.

At 12/22/07 12:57 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Wow, you guys really hate it when people own your ass.
I expect you guys to just quote this and make stupid comments about it and laugh in your ignorance, you have no power over anything.
The point I was trying to say is that you know nothing about anything, you may think you do but obviously you have nothing better to do.
Me? I love watching people pour their hearts out with insults and ridiculous lies, Iwould watch myself if I were you, because whatever you have done to force your way of thinking, it is going to come back to you.

I apologize for the way i presented my argument versus your post, your first few sentences sparked something from my past that got me very angry. This doesn't destroy the validity of the arguments you still make no sense, and you still are a hypocrite. I never said I knew everything, in fact my belief system (agnosticism) by very definition says that I know nothing. I respect that you are a Christian, and I have no intention of making that change, but from the way it seems, you are trying to assault non-theists with fear of hell, and fear of being wrong, or just plain fear. Using fear to achieve a motive is called terrorism, and it is bad.
As for the argument that you made that had nothing at all to do with this post, your right, there are things science can't disprove, in the same sense that you can't disprove that there is a hippopotamus in my trunk. The irony in this is that you brought up magic, which, holding the details as to why, I don't deny (I don't accept it either, but i also don't deny it). And Then you go on to claim that the planets could have formed elsewhere, and you make the incorrect claim that science says that "the earth was SO easy to make." From what I can tell, a gaseous cloud forming into matter and a fusion Dependant area, which became a sun, and the earth forming a mood, which regulated the ocean, and several hundred thousand other factors, is not "easy to make" But yes it is possible that other planets formed. (By the way, I don't think that is exact on to how the planets are formed, close enough to make a point, but don't count it as "credited")
Everything else in your earlier comment seems pretty subjective, therefore there is no way to "refute" it.
Ok now that's out of the way, please comment on the topic now, because I really don't want to go into a theological debate with anyone

depends, if country made to theory so its possible! (and necessary) >:(

A therory can never be a law until it has been proven beyond a doubt.

Like gravity. We know it works, we know it exists. Jump up, you go back down.

The big bang can never be proven, we would have to go back in time and see it for ourselves, and then examin it.

Atoms are not fully proven yet. Mathmatically they are real, but we have never seen them yet.

Light speed, in theory an object cant go faster then light speed, but hasnt been proven that an object cant. The math says we cant, but the math can always be wrong. maybe there are some factors that were not put in because we dont know they exist yet.
They used to say passing the speed of sound was immpossible, but now we know it is possible.

A theory will only be a law only when it has been proven that it is real.

At 12/22/07 02:19 AM, psycho-squirrel wrote: A therory can never be a law until it has been proven beyond a doubt.

Like gravity. We know it works, we know it exists. Jump up, you go back down.

The big bang can never be proven, we would have to go back in time and see it for ourselves, and then examin it.

Atoms are not fully proven yet. Mathmatically they are real, but we have never seen them yet.

Light speed, in theory an object cant go faster then light speed, but hasnt been proven that an object cant. The math says we cant, but the math can always be wrong. maybe there are some factors that were not put in because we dont know they exist yet.
They used to say passing the speed of sound was immpossible, but now we know it is possible.

A theory will only be a law only when it has been proven that it is real.

XD folish! atoms have been see XD XD XD XD rotfl

befoer a loooong time ago...

theres fucking microscope!

foolish,foolish,foolish

just cause you can't see it, don't mean its not exsist! (and you can see them)

At 12/22/07 12:57 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Wow, you guys really hate it when people own your ass.

No, you didn't "own" anyone's ass, thank you very much.

I expect you guys to just quote this and make stupid comments about it and laugh in your ignorance, you have no power over anything.

I laughing at your ignorance, k.

The point I was trying to say is that you know nothing about anything, you may think you do but obviously you have nothing better to do.

Well it was the most poorly obscure and articulated point I've ever seen in my life.

Me? I love watching people pour their hearts out with insults and ridiculous lies,

Excuse me, you are the one doing the insults, ie. "emo faggot".

I would watch myself if I were you, because whatever you have done to force your way of thinking, it is going to come back to you.

Ooh, I'm going to suffer for all eternity because some ancient book that has been translated and edited countless time says so.

Pathetic.

At 12/22/07 02:23 AM, satanbrain wrote: XD folish! atoms have been see XD XD XD XD rotfl

befoer a loooong time ago...

theres fucking microscope!

foolish,foolish,foolish

just cause you can't see it, don't mean its not exsist! (and you can see them)

you are mistaking atoms for molicules. large molicules have been seen, but that is as small as we can see.

also, you need to go back to the kiddy pool, because you are pissing up the political forum.

thats my goal...

and if someone pissing up its his problem!

Did someone dub this the "Official Retard Thread" when I wasn't looking?

I mean, holy crap.

At 12/22/07 05:15 AM, Ravariel wrote: Did someone dub this the "Official Retard Thread" when I wasn't looking?

I mean, holy crap.

I assume you're talking about Shaggy?

At 12/22/07 06:50 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 12/22/07 05:15 AM, Ravariel wrote: Did someone dub this the "Official Retard Thread" when I wasn't looking?

I mean, holy crap.

I assume you're talking about Shaggy?

...and satanbrain, and psycho-squirrel...

At 12/17/07 11:24 PM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

What do you think scientific laws were before they were laws? I'd have to say "theories."

At 12/22/07 08:29 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 12/17/07 11:24 PM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

What do you think scientific laws were before they were laws? I'd have to say "theories."

Uhh, that's like asking, what do you think squares were before they were squares. They were undefined. When we found proper information we called them laws.

At 12/21/07 06:11 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

At 12/21/07 06:02 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

he's pointing out that this implies that if it had any scientific grounding it would be a law, which isn't the case.

So basically you hate yourself because you believe you will go to hell?

No, he's saying that you can't rob a bank when fish are more expensive on Tuesdays.

Non sequitur is the best form of argument, isn't it?

Hmmm, I think I understand this topic now, you say a theory cannot be a law.
But what was there before law as someone here said recently, if I'm not mistaken I say that religion or the thing about live and let live made the first laws, not really laws but guidelines.
So when we something is a law, that jsut means alot of people decided on it to be written, put into action, and hold people accountable if they don't do it or do the opposite.

So you see a theory isn't like a law at all, when someone thinks of somthing like the time somone discovered gravity, they just put a name on it and made a kind of scientific explanation of it.
It wasn't a law, nothing is really a law, it is just how we interpret things to what we believe is right or most believable.

Lets say somone kills a person, that can't be good because thats one person gone, one person who could've made a big difference, cured cancer, or just plainly was a good person and didn't deserve to die. So they made a theory that you should not kill others, religion or not we can all agree that killing is wrong am I right? So what they do to insure that no one does it, they make it a "law" or an enforced theory, suggestion, opinion, so now if somone kills another, they are either executed to make an example of that person, or be put in a prison and be forced to be with people who are like them, sort of like being treated as you treat others. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

So thats about it, theories, laws, they're all just suggestions and opinions based on morals, religion, or common sense. It is probably how we as human beings have gone from being vicious cavemen to the most dominant and sophisticated species on this planet. For whatever purpose we believe we were put here for, we are here, so why not make the best of our existence while we can huh?
Lets all have a big round of applause for ourselves. lol

At 12/23/07 05:51 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: some random misguided bullshit

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At 12/21/07 06:02 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: No fuckwad.

He made this thread because Christian idiots like you say bullshit like "The Big bang/Evolution etc. is only a theory..", and he's pointing out that this implies that if it had any scientific grounding it would be a law, which isn't the case.

I think you've pointed out the obvious "hidden" agenda behind this whole stupid believe that scientific theories can never be laws.

SadisticMonkey, you are clearly abusing this topic, I have reported you to Tom and I would like you to know that I do not tolerate your behavior.

Just because I cannot see you or know where you are doesn't mean you won't be punished, keep doing what your doing and I guarantee you that shit will come back to bite you, and for your sake you better hope you haven't done anything too bad.

At 12/23/07 12:16 AM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

At 12/22/07 08:29 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 12/17/07 11:24 PM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

What do you think scientific laws were before they were laws? I'd have to say "theories."

Uhh, that's like asking, what do you think squares were before they were squares. They were undefined. When we found proper information we called them laws.

No... they were theories. Theories are not necessarily proven, and can become laws with proof. I think your argument would apply to theories. Before they were theories they were undefined.

Holy shit, after 2 whole pages of this, how can you still miss the point so completely :/

SCIENTIFIC LAW: collection of facts. I.e. through decades of observation, we have noticed that things that are just dropped always fall down. This is the LAW of falling. It doesn't say how things fall, nor why they fall, it's just that we have noticed that things always fall instead of floating up into the air.

SCIENTIFIC THEORY: Things fall because masses extert forces on eachother, and force induces acceleration, and blahblahblah. Theory gives us links between laws and other phenomena that we observe.

So NO A THEORY CAN NOT BECOME A LAW. A theory is more like an explanation, and a law is more like a definite fact, without any explanation for it.

And NO SCIENTIFIC LAWS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH LEGAL LAWS OR HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES >: (

And yes, even laws can be wrong. "Conservation of mass" is true for many physical and chemical processes, for systems moving at a wide variety of speeds, but it just doesn't apply to nuclear reactions for instance.

There is no "proving" a theory, because there are no axioms in natural science. There is no "proving" a law, because it is just a collection of facts.

Don't worry Christopherr, you can still become a priest.

Alright motherfuckers, I'm getting sick of this horrific abuse of physics.

Gravity is not a law. Obviously, when you throw things up, they come down. The theory is WHY.

Originally, there was Newton's theory that all masses exert forces on one another, making the apple fall down.

Einstein (about 200 years later), however, disagreed. He said that space-time was a stack of planes stretching to the edges of the universe, and that all matter creates "dents" in the fabric of space-time. This also explains the tendency of time to be distorted under high gravitation or acceleration (which was also proven to be relatively equivalent to gravitation). Then, smaller matter just moves down these curves, or around them, if the object is moving fast enough (orbit).

Other theories have been sent out, due to the fact that Einstein's general relativity cracks when one deals with sub-molecular physics. So far, none have been perfect.

NOW, if you didn't feel like dealing with my ramblings on astrophysics, I basically said that there is no ONE theory of gravity.

The LAW of gravity is merely that all objects attract all other objects in the universe with a force proportional to to the product of their masses, which is inversely proportional to to the distance between them.

Not too complicated.

At 12/23/07 10:05 AM, Christopherr wrote:

At 12/23/07 12:16 AM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

At 12/22/07 08:29 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 12/17/07 11:24 PM, a2toedmonkey wrote:

What do you think scientific laws were before they were laws? I'd have to say "theories."

Uhh, that's like asking, what do you think squares were before they were squares. They were undefined. When we found proper information we called them laws.

No... they were theories. Theories are not necessarily proven, and can become laws with proof. I think your argument would apply to theories. Before they were theories they were undefined.

Actually, before laws were laws, they were observations, not theories.

A theory is an explanation for something. For example, evolution is a theory because it proposes an explanation for the diversity of species that we see, and so on and so forth.

A law is simply something that is true everywhere that we observe it. The laws of thermodynamics are laws. They don't provide explanations, they're just true in every case that we observe.

Hmmm, Ok, THERE ARE NO LAWS.
Nothing is certain, our understanding could be false as an elephant flying.
The fact is that this is our way of understanding, the general knowledge that is most believable. whatever people are getting at let me just make this clear.
You are responsible fore your actions and yes youare being watched in everything you do physically and mentally, that is just the way it is, so either believe or ignpore.
Reality is what we have made it, you cannot change anything that has already happened, just wanted to get all that out cuz it was starting to bother me.