What do you think of Conscription?

[Sonni]

Apparently they stopped this system in United States back in the 1970s if I remembered correctly. My country still stick with this system. I just got the draft some months ago and I'll be drawing the cards (some sort of lottery) after I graduate.

Personally, I think that we should just shutdown this system. Not only it would cut cost, but if we were to mix conscripted soldiers with professional soldiers (who are actually willing to fight) I think that it will cause some sort of conflict between them and apparently lower their morales. Not only that, forcing people who are unwilling to fight would not be efficient compare to an all professional soldier, at least that's what I think.

So what are your thoughts? And if you've been conscripted before in your country and would like to share some experience that would be pretty cool :D I'll like to hear that. Currently, I'm doing crazy training to improve my overall fitness in case I had to serve the army.

[animehater]

That's why it is important to create a willingness to fight among the entire population.

[skatin-andy]

In the US all males have to sign up for the "draft" when they turn 18 just in case they ever have to use it.

I think its a dumb idea simply because you can't guarantee the people that get drafted know anything about combat. And they might be forced to fight for something they don't believe in.

Then again they most likely won't take people that aren't physically fit, so that means they wouldn't take me.

[animehater]

At 12/14/07 01:36 PM, skatin-andy wrote: I think its a dumb idea simply because you can't guarantee the people that get drafted know anything about combat.

I doubt they just give you a gun, dump you in the battlefield and say "Have Fun" you would get training first.

[fahrenheit]

Actually mixing unwilling soldiers with willing soldiers is the best way to go, because of the unwilling soldiers are separated they might not fight because the people around them wont. If you mix willing soldiers the unwilling are more likely to fight if other people wont join then/are fighting.

[animehater]

At 12/14/07 01:41 PM, fahrenheit wrote: Actually mixing unwilling soldiers

That's the thing though you should focus on making them willing.

[skatin-andy]

At 12/14/07 01:40 PM, animehater wrote:
I doubt they just give you a gun, dump you in the battlefield and say "Have Fun" you would get training first.

You might be surprised.

I'm sure they would, but you still can't guarantee the people that get drafted will be able to learn, or even willing to learn. If you know you can get out of combat by not passing training, there would be a lot of people purposely failing.

Even with training, if their heart isn't in it, they won't be as a good as soldiers that are willing to be there.

[animehater]

At 12/14/07 01:56 PM, skatin-andy wrote: If you know you can get out of combat by not passing training, there would be a lot of people purposely failing.

Even with training, if their heart isn't in it, they won't be as a good as soldiers that are willing to be there.

No wonder one of the first things they do is break you down. Also, if they could increase morale by trying to get rid of any potential negative influences i'm sure you would find more willingness.

[skatin-andy]

At 12/14/07 02:02 PM, animehater wrote:
No wonder one of the first things they do is break you down. Also, if they could increase morale by trying to get rid of any potential negative influences i'm sure you would find more willingness.

Getting ridding of negative influence would be getting rid of almost all of the people drafted. Which is my point. Why institute something when there is almost no gain out of it.

A better method would be to give people that volunteer more benefits, which would increase the number of volunteers.

[animehater]

At 12/14/07 02:22 PM, skatin-andy wrote: Getting ridding of negative influence would be getting rid of almost all of the people drafted.

I mean negative influences on the draftees. That way they won't hurt overall troop morale because there's is already up.

[skatin-andy]

At 12/14/07 02:49 PM, animehater wrote:
I mean negative influences on the draftees. That way they won't hurt overall troop morale because there's is already up.

I see. That works too.

[Splintered]

They do it in Switzerland and Finland, and so far both countries have faired just about as well as the United States has.

I'm not sure I see a real reason to have it, honestly. Conscription works if you're only going to be defending the place; I'd be nearly 99% of people would have no problem defending their home.

You run in to the morale issue when you attack other places.

[Akotoshe]

well i dont like the idea of just grabing teenagers and throwing them into the frontlines however i support some form of military training mandatory for all able bodied peoples that way in the event of war a large number of relatively well trained peoples can be drafted into combat formations. not to mention it will help improve soceity by reducing obesity, creating a more fit peoples, more productive peoples and all of the things things associated with a healthy populace id say 2 years in the military should do it ^^

[Christopherr]

At 12/14/07 12:30 PM, animehater wrote: That's why it is important to create a willingness to fight among the entire population.

Which is impossible to do, as it would require censorship. We got that support in WWII because we didn't let the bad into the news, which is what a country needs to do.

However, in the age of information, the public seems to have added to their list the right to information.

[SmilezRoyale]

I don't know exactly what system you are talking about.

In all due respect, i don't beleive that all citizens should be required to fight in an army. I do beleive that giving all citizens military training would be exponentially beneficial to the population. I'm not really talking about usage of tanks or weapons, but if each american had to spend a given period of time in a boot camp where they learned...

1) Emergency protocols
2) Hand to hand Combat
3) Dicipline
4) Teamwork

You would probably get the same result if each American was required to take a certain number of months in A martial arts training [such as karate or jujistu]

The only problem i would have against this is that i don't like the idea of a a universally required government run education program, i would like a world where people were more cooperative and disciplined, but definitely not at the cost of individuality and free thought, as well as the occasional criticism of the government.

[Sonni]

At 12/14/07 08:21 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I don't know exactly what system you are talking about.

In all due respect, i don't beleive that all citizens should be required to fight in an army. I do beleive that giving all citizens military training would be exponentially beneficial to the population. I'm not really talking about usage of tanks or weapons, but if each american had to spend a given period of time in a boot camp where they learned...

1) Emergency protocols
2) Hand to hand Combat
3) Dicipline
4) Teamwork

You would probably get the same result if each American was required to take a certain number of months in A martial arts training [such as karate or jujistu]

The only problem i would have against this is that i don't like the idea of a a universally required government run education program, i would like a world where people were more cooperative and disciplined, but definitely not at the cost of individuality and free thought, as well as the occasional criticism of the government.

I kind of agree with you, if they were to provide only basic training that would be nice. But here it's not just basic training though, they are really training you to fight in the military. This means killing people if necessary, handling the guns, battle strategies and improve overall physical fitness.

In my country when you're 20 years old you are forced to draw the card, if your education level is only M.6 (equivalent to high school in United States) you will be forced to serve the military for 2 years and if you're a graduate or higher, 1 year at least (unless you join the military willingly and don't draw the card your serving period will be halved.) If there isn't any conflict, in the peaceful times it would be just training and doing things like guarding the borderlines of the country or if you have some educational qualifications or skills you can also teach people. But currently, there's a conflict in the Southern part of Thailand and that means you're going to get send to do some skirmish down there. Well I admit I'm a little bit scared but if I have to go well, at least I'll be ready for it.

[LordJaric]

At 12/14/07 01:36 PM, skatin-andy wrote: In the US all males have to sign up for the "draft" when they turn 18 just in case they ever have to use it.

That's funny, I don't remember signing up for the draft, but it doesn't really matter, I've got some health problems.

[TheMason]

At 12/14/07 10:57 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 12/14/07 01:36 PM, skatin-andy wrote: In the US all males have to sign up for the "draft" when they turn 18 just in case they ever have to use it.

That's funny, I don't remember signing up for the draft, but it doesn't really matter, I've got some health problems.

It's called "registering with Selective Service" and it is the law for all 18 yo males to register. In fact if you're planning on going to college and recieve federal student aid you are required to have registered. If you want a federal civilian job or any kindof federal benefit; you have to register.

Your health problems will be sorted out when President Obama (or Clinton) reinstates the draft after 2010 mid-term elections.

[LordJaric]

At 12/14/07 11:24 PM, TheMason wrote: Your health problems will be sorted out when President Obama (or Clinton) reinstates the draft after 2010 mid-term elections.

What I mean by health problems is the kind of problems that would keep me from going into miltary service. I have 2 health problems, 1 I want talk about because that isn't the one keeping me from being able to join the miltary, the other one how ever will.

I have a blood clot near my spleen if I were to get hit hard in the stomach I would start to bleed, and just a few months ago we found out that I have some more, there some in my thoat, and at least a month ago it got cut, and I ended up pucking up some blood some unknown days later. So that is why it doesn't matter, even though I would like to join the air force, I simple wouldn't be accepted.

[TheMason]

At 12/14/07 11:35 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 12/14/07 11:24 PM, TheMason wrote: Your health problems will be sorted out when President Obama (or Clinton) reinstates the draft after 2010 mid-term elections.

I have a blood clot near my spleen if I were to get hit hard in the stomach I would start to bleed, and just a few months ago we found out that I have some more, there some in my thoat, and at least a month ago it got cut, and I ended up pucking up some blood some unknown days later. So that is why it doesn't matter, even though I would like to join the air force, I simple wouldn't be accepted.

I'm sorry to hear that; but as an Airman I'm glad you'd be interested in my service branch.

However, my point is you still probably have to register if you want federal benefits like student loans. If a draft would happen...no you couldn't be drafted and that was what I meant by it would all be sorted out...

[iiREDii]

being forced into any action is slavery. Conscription says to a man that the state owns him, that he is not sovereign over his own self but is subject to the whims of a democratic mobs decree. The draft is slavery.

[morefngdbs]

At 12/14/07 10:57 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 12/14/07 01:36 PM, skatin-andy wrote: In the US all males have to sign up for the "draft" when they turn 18 just in case they ever have to use it.

That's funny, I don't remember signing up for the draft, but it doesn't really matter, I've got some health problems.

;
I am way OK with conscription & the Draft... Since I shattered my left leg back in July, I'm no longer capable of being a soldier, you have to be healthy & in good physical condition to be signed up.
So now that I'm Safe I'm Pro Choice... sorry I mean pro conscription.

[Sonni]

I was thinking along the line that conscription is like stealing freedom from people. If someone doesn't want to fight in the army but forced to do it, how would they feel? I mean, who actually wants to go and shoot people out there. Maybe some folks do but I don't think many people does.

Conscription though is only useful if there is a huge conflict and you need to fight. Otherwise, you're just wasting money paying for the conscripted soldiers. Unfortunately, you can't just go and stop conscription right away because of some "sensitive issues" like corruption and those stuffs if you know what I mean. Not everything works under Law and Order, well compare to United States many countries out there suffer even worse from people who aren't respecting the law.

I just hope that when I'm in the army I won't get shot in the dick.

[SmilezRoyale]

"I kind of agree with you, if they were to provide only basic training that would be nice. But here it's not just basic training though, they are really training you to fight in the military. This means killing people if necessary, handling the guns, battle strategies and improve overall physical fitness."

that would certainly make it difficult to mug some guy on the street.

"Was he conscripted yet? does he have a gun in his pocket?"