proof your religion is more valid

[mayeram]

I was wondering if any of you religious newgrounders could prove that your religion is more valid then Pastafarianism. So many religious people tell me that there are great amounts of evidence and proof pointing towards their religion, and yet I haven't seen anything that gives more proof for the belief in any other religion then the Pastafarians have for their religion. Why be offended of a religion that has just as much proof as yours?

By the way, if you don't know what Pastafarianism is, here is a link to the religion's homepage.

http://www.venganza.org/

[SlithVampir]

Nice.

Mucho lulz all around.

Good luck connecting it to politics.

[Drakim]

At 12/10/07 04:51 PM, SlithVampir wrote: Nice.

Mucho lulz all around.

Good luck connecting it to politics.

As pointed out in a thread I made (where people happily flamed me), politics means a lot of things. Almost anything if you want! :D

[reviewer-general]

At 12/10/07 04:51 PM, SlithVampir wrote: Nice.

Mucho lulz all around.

Good luck connecting it to politics.

I agree.

From the webpage:

"To some this is just an experiment; a response to the Intelligent Design movement, a defense of science, a satirical religion meant to combat religious fundamentalism run amok.

We believe it's important to keep religion out of politics. But when we see public officials abusing their positions, putting their personal religion-based ideas into policy, we fight to get our ideas included as well. It's only fair."

If I may...

BOOM, HEADSHOT.

[SirStanley]

Pastafarianism was never funny, and you can't prove an opinion to be valid.

However, I will humor you anyways. The Bible makes the prediction that the Jewish state will be re-established before the end of the world, and it has, so +1 for the Bible.

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 04:45 PM, mayeram wrote: I was wondering if any of you religious newgrounders could prove that your religion is more valid then Pastafarianism. So many religious people tell me that there are great amounts of evidence and proof pointing towards their religion, and yet I haven't seen anything that gives more proof for the belief in any other religion then the Pastafarians have for their religion. Why be offended of a religion that has just as much proof as yours?

By the way, if you don't know what Pastafarianism is, here is a link to the religion's homepage.

http://www.venganza.org/

And what proof is there for pastafarianism? Besides the ambiguous, "you can't disprove it" that I've heard over and over?

[ThorKingOfTheVikings]

By the way, if you don't know what Pastafarianism is, here is a link to the religion's homepage.

http://www.venganza.org/

And what proof is there for pastafarianism? Besides the ambiguous, "you can't disprove it" that I've heard over and over?

And what proof is there for organized religion in general? Besides the ambiguous, "you can't disprove it" that I've heard over and over?

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 06:06 PM, ThorKingOfTheVikings wrote: And what proof is there for organized religion in general? Besides the ambiguous, "you can't disprove it" that I've heard over and over?

Bits and peices although nothing conclusive. Events described in the bible have been proven, most notably, the evidence discovered that the Noah's Ark thing happened. While that's not 100% proof, you do have to wonder how someone would know there'd be a big enough flood to kill off everything on the planet and build a ship to survive said flood pre-emptively.

[mayeram]

At 12/10/07 05:38 PM, SirStanley wrote: Pastafarianism was never funny, and you can't prove an opinion to be valid.

However, I will humor you anyways. The Bible makes the prediction that the Jewish state will be re-established before the end of the world, and it has, so +1 for the Bible.

Well that may be true, but it is a pretty vague statement. In fact it's pretty predictable. General Douglas MacArthur said "I came out of Bataan and I shall return" after leaving the Philippines after being defeated by the Japanese. He returned to the Philippines. He was able to predict the future, but does this mean that he was inspired by God? It could easily be the same thing in the bible. It was said in holy scripts that the Jews would retake their land, and therefore they felt that it was their destiny to retake their ancestral lands. As long as the Jews took back Israel some time in the future, the prophesy would have come true.

I could also make a statement in a book saying that before the end of the world humanity will have colonized a planet outside of our solar system. If we do it before the end of the world, I still would have made a true prophesy right?

The bible would have to predict something more substantial for its prophecies to be believable, such as it predicting the existence of a website called newgrounds on a thing called the internet that was born in the 1990s.

[mayeram]

At 12/10/07 06:10 PM, JerkClock wrote:

At 12/10/07 06:06 PM, ThorKingOfTheVikings wrote: And what proof is there for organized religion in general? Besides the ambiguous, "you can't disprove it" that I've heard over and over?

Bits and peices although nothing conclusive. Events described in the bible have been proven, most notably, the evidence discovered that the Noah's Ark thing happened. While that's not 100% proof, you do have to wonder how someone would know there'd be a big enough flood to kill off everything on the planet and build a ship to survive said flood pre-emptively.

Could you please post evidence that there was ever a huge ship built for the purpose of surviving an enormous flood? I haven't found any credible evidence for such a thing yet.

Also are you saying that it was a world wide flood or a centralized flood?

[mayeram]

At 12/10/07 05:57 PM, JerkClock wrote:

And what proof is there for pastafarianism? Besides the ambiguous, "you can't disprove it" that I've heard over and over?

Well I don't know if there is any proof, unless there is something on the website that I haven't seen yet. :P

However I think that pastafarianism has the same amount of proof as any religion believing in a spiritual being.

Sorry for multi posting, but I like to tackle points as I see them.

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 06:25 PM, mayeram wrote:
Also are you saying that it was a world wide flood or a centralized flood?

World wide, no I'm not tangling with google to find these peices but I can recall some of the details.. They were news posts made in the papers years ago that I remember reading about news of a worldwide catastrophic flood, they'd be next to impossible to find on a peice of shit engine like google where you can type in a phrase that exists within it's database yet not get any links.

It said stuff about bones from many types of creatures, including dinosaurs being found crushed together in parts of the world(above land no less), and evidence that they got that way due to water-pressure. Also they cited signs of water erosion in even the non-snow covered parts of some of the highest mountains.

[CommanderQ]

A ship big enough to hold 2 of every animal on Earth could probably be seen from space. Besides, having all those animals for 40 days and nights without any disease or even one animal dying seems unlikely. Also, they did a study that showed that all the water on earth couldn't flood the whole planet. And what about all the saltwater/freshwater fish? wouldn't the two kinds of water mix and kill one group or the other?

[PhoenixTails]

What if you don't try to prove you are right or convert people, and you consider them more enlightened if they figure it out on their own?

[SadisticMonkey]

At 12/10/07 06:10 PM, JerkClock wrote: most notably, the evidence discovered that the Noah's Ark thing happened.

NO THERE FUCKING HAS NOT.

[CommanderX1125]

At 12/10/07 06:31 PM, JerkClock wrote:

At 12/10/07 06:25 PM, mayeram wrote:
Also are you saying that it was a world wide flood or a centralized flood?

World wide, no I'm not tangling with google to find these peices but I can recall some of the details.. They were news posts made in the papers years ago that I remember reading about news of a worldwide catastrophic flood, they'd be next to impossible to find on a peice of shit engine like google where you can type in a phrase that exists within it's database yet not get any links.

It said stuff about bones from many types of creatures, including dinosaurs being found crushed together in parts of the world(above land no less), and evidence that they got that way due to water-pressure. Also they cited signs of water erosion in even the non-snow covered parts of some of the highest mountains.

I'm sorry my friend, but here on NG we require some form of proof on the matter, hell even a Wiki would be better than nothing on the matter.

Anyway, back on topic, the only thing close to such a flood occurred during the rein of a Sumerian (sp?) king by the name of Ziasudra (sp?). During said flood the guy confiscated a merchant vessel loaded with goods and rode the flood out, eventually landing on a hill top which happend to have a temple. In turn for his good luck in surviving the flood, he offered a sacrifice to the temple, which was generally an offer of blood for the time. Where's Imperator at, he could do a much better job than I in this matter.... Damn it Impy.....

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 06:58 PM, CommanderX1125 wrote:
I'm sorry my friend, but here on NG we require some form of proof on the matter, hell even a Wiki would be better than nothing on the matter.

Jimbo Wales' bullshit is just that, bullshit. Anyway, you're dumb fuck if you expect me to dig up shit from years ago using the peice of shit that google is, believe I'd use it if it had any ability to dig up anything using more than 3 fucking words. Unfortunately I don't have that, but it did exist, it happened around the time I was in 6th grade, which should be about 13 years ago.

As for the ship, such a ship has been found but it wasn't exactly big enough to house 2 of every single earthly animal, more like it could hold every known animal in the within the region of the place it was built(ie. every known one within perhaps a 100 mile radius) which is a reasonable assumption for how such a thing could have happened.

[cobe44]

At 12/10/07 04:45 PM, mayeram wrote: I was wondering if any of you religious newgrounders could prove that your religion is more valid then Pastafarianism. So many religious people tell me that there are great amounts of evidence and proof pointing towards their religion, and yet I haven't seen anything that gives more proof for the belief in any other religion then the Pastafarians have for their religion. Why be offended of a religion that has just as much proof as yours?

By the way, if you don't know what Pastafarianism is, here is a link to the religion's homepage.

http://www.venganza.org/

As a pastafarian, you should know that there is no evidence for any religion that cannot be debunked by another religion. (or the lack thereof) The Flying Spaghetti Monster is disappointed in you, fool.
When people are asked to give evidence for the existence of an Abrahamic God (YHWH), they just say that he's omnipotent. You can't argue with that- but, by that reasoning, there could also be an omnipotent FSM as well, and you could not disprove its existence.

Flying Spaghetti Monster FTW!

[mayeram]

So there is no evidence of a massive ship, or that someone gathered animals onto the ship to preserve them, or that god was involved at all?

How does it prove the story of Noah's arc then? Massive floods have happened before, obviously not on that scale, and many scientists today believe that that sort of flood could never have happened, but huge floods do happen. Your evidence at best may prove that there was a massive flood. There is no proof that there was a ship built or that god told a man to build it.

If I am to accept that the entire earth was flooded at one time based upon evidence that you haven't shown, I think I have the right to question how a such a boat would have been made, how the animals would have been gathered, and how earth got repopulated from the small group of people that were on the arc.

Firstly the Arc would have been enormous to have been able to hold all of the creatures that exist today. Those creatures would need lots of room to live in and there would need to be even more room to store all of their food and water in. Also you would need some separation between the animals to keep them from killing each other. Already this boat would be much larger then any zoo you can think of.

Next, where would all of the wood come from to build the boat? If I am correct in what I remember from the story Noah built the boat himself with his family. It's doubtful that anyone in the world other then his family would have helped him as they were all evil. Maybe if Noah was rich and paid them all off? Noah also had to gather an unheard of amount of supplies to survive 40 days and 40 nights on his boat during the rain (let alone the time after the rain before the waters had receded) with all of the animals. Other then fishing, there would be no way to get food during the flood.

Finally, the only people on the Arc were Noah and his family correct? If that's true, how did they perform all of the maintenance needed to keep their ship A) afloat, and B) from becoming a plague ridden hell? (I am assuming that Noah was a brilliant captain, and engineer, and understood all of the animals on the planet and all of their needs.) A family, even a very large one will not be able to feed 2 of every animal on the planet, and clean up their poop and other waist, and keep their ship seaworthy. There just aren't enough hours in a day.

Even after they found land, they had to live in the new and dangerous world. How did they survive in a totally alien world when there was only Noah, his wife, his two sons, and their wives? Even experts in wilderness survival would have found that a difficult world to survive in. If any of the women (or more then two of the men) had died from any cause (sickness, the elements, animal attacks, starvation) the human race would have failed to continue existing.

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 07:09 PM, mayeram wrote: How does it prove the story of Noah's arc then? Massive floods have happened before, obviously not on that scale, and many scientists today believe that that sort of flood could never have happened, but huge floods do happen. Your evidence at best may prove that there was a massive flood. There is no proof that there was a ship built or that god told a man to build it.

Such a ship was found, it had animal cages, but as I said it was more likely built to house the animals the person who built it knew about, not all that existed in the world.

But yeah, I said there wasn't 100% evidence, just that evidence is more than there is for pastafarianism, and that's true.

[cobe44]

At 12/10/07 05:38 PM, SirStanley wrote: Pastafarianism was never funny, and you can't prove an opinion to be valid.

However, I will humor you anyways. The Bible makes the prediction that the Jewish state will be re-established before the end of the world, and it has, so +1 for the Bible.

and if the world doesn't end, then that (the formation of a jewish state, namely Israel) would probably happen anyways.

And who says pastafarianism was never funny? I think it's hilarious.

The world may end, eventually, when the sun grows and subsequently swallows the earth before dissipating. But by then, human civilization will have most likely ended or emigrated from the solar system. (at the very least, though, from Earth)
so, yeah, there would probably be a Jewish state formed before that.

*ahem* -1 for t3h biblez.

[mayeram]

At 12/10/07 07:07 PM, cobe44 wrote:
As a pastafarian, you should know that there is no evidence for any religion that cannot be debunked by another religion. (or the lack thereof) The Flying Spaghetti Monster is disappointed in you, fool.
When people are asked to give evidence for the existence of an Abrahamic God (YHWH), they just say that he's omnipotent. You can't argue with that- but, by that reasoning, there could also be an omnipotent FSM as well, and you could not disprove its existence.

Flying Spaghetti Monster FTW!

Hey hey, I was just trying to demonstrate that our religion is just as valid as theirs brother... :D

I already knew that no evidence for any religion could be disproven in all other religions; I am just trying to help people see that.

[CommanderX1125]

At 12/10/07 06:58 PM, CommanderX1125 wrote:

At 12/10/07 06:31 PM, JerkClock wrote:

At 12/10/07 06:25 PM, mayeram wrote:
Also are you saying that it was a world wide flood or a centralized flood?

World wide, no I'm not tangling with google to find these peices but I can recall some of the details.. They were news posts made in the papers years ago that I remember reading about news of a worldwide catastrophic flood, they'd be next to impossible to find on a peice of shit engine like google where you can type in a phrase that exists within it's database yet not get any links.

It said stuff about bones from many types of creatures, including dinosaurs being found crushed together in parts of the world(above land no less), and evidence that they got that way due to water-pressure. Also they cited signs of water erosion in even the non-snow covered parts of some of the highest mountains.

I'm sorry my friend, but here on NG we require some form of proof on the matter, hell even a Wiki would be better than nothing on the matter.

.... Damn it Impy.....

Hmm.... just realized I forgot to attach my link. There we go, this should do it... ends up I spelled the name correctly... nice.... Anyway, I can find more if you guys would like.

[mayeram]

At 12/10/07 07:12 PM, JerkClock wrote:

Such a ship was found, it had animal cages, but as I said it was more likely built to house the animals the person who built it knew about, not all that existed in the world.

But yeah, I said there wasn't 100% evidence, just that evidence is more than there is for pastafarianism, and that's true.

But if it was only large enough to house the animals in the immediate area and the entire planet was flooded, how did the other animals survive? Also I really wish you could find the evidence you are listing of us finding a ship.

[SadisticMonkey]

THERE HAS BEEN NO SHIP FOUND, FOOLS. AND WTF, ANIMAL CAGES LMFAO.

Bottom of the page, wankers.

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 07:18 PM, CommanderX1125 wrote:
stuff

Those were tablets written about the incident after it happened. Which is funny because if that many people wrote about, be it from different points of veiw or not, it does make it more likely that such an event happened.

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 07:20 PM, mayeram wrote:

stuff

Simple, they evolved into existence. Evolution is nothing more than gradual adaptation, and so it makes sense for a god to design life to evolve.

jf

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/10/07 07:24 PM, JerkClock wrote:

At 12/10/07 07:20 PM, mayeram wrote:

stuff

Simple, they evolved into existence. Evolution is nothing more than gradual adaptation, and so it makes sense for a god to design life to evolve.

jf

But the story of the flood takes place some thousands of years ago, and evolution takes literally millions before the species will be so divided that they are called different species.

[JerkClock]

At 12/10/07 07:36 PM, Sajberhippien wrote:

But the story of the flood takes place some thousands of years ago, and evolution takes literally millions before the species will be so divided that they are called different species.

Not neccessarily. That's:

1. only theory

2. neglecting the more minor things, like a species having different variants. Something could have moved to different continent where it evolved into both deer on one, and elk on another.

[SadisticMonkey]

JerkClock, you're a fucking moron.