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At 12/4/07 10:46 AM, Sigma-Lambda wrote: This isn't a matter of speech, this is a matter of hiring.

You're right, the first amendment is our most valued right. I'm curious as to why liberals believe the Boys Scouts are obligated to follow every government, down to letter because they're partially funded by said entity, yet don't give two shits about college speechcodes that curb students rights of expression and speech if it happens to offend the sensitivity of leftwing students.

Just selective outrage, I s'pose.

At 12/4/07 10:24 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote: You seem to ignore the homosexual part. It just lowers the chance of kids being molested. If a bunch of homos get offended by not being scout master, they can damn well stay offended.

And I'm bisexual so +100 points.

You're also forgetting that child molesters can also have wives. Not everyone who molests boys is gay or leads an actively gay lifestyle.

At 12/4/07 10:24 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote:

You seem to ignore the homosexual part. It just lowers the chance of kids being molested. If a bunch of homos get offended by not being scout master, they can damn well stay offended.

And I'm bisexual so +100 points.

Still, are homosexuals forbidden from being teachers? Or heterosexuals for that matter, unless it's a pure boy school.

Here in Sweden, scouting is considered something that should be for everyone. I don't get why it should be so hard in the US.

At 12/4/07 01:51 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 12/3/07 11:42 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: It's troop leaders who claim to be straight and like adult women who usually turn out to be little-boy molesters. Just like it's priests who are supposed to be abstinent and not tempted by flesh who touch altar boys in the youth group room.

;
I agree with Skunky, being gay does not mean you are a child molester.
But besides picking out just the priests that have molested for the most part male children... look at how many teachers have been caught recently having sex with their students.
It seems to me that way more hetro's have been caught abusing their positions of trust than have members of the gay community.

got back late read everyone post, and it seems to me that lots of people are missing the point, TRUE FREEDOM, MEANS having a belief in something and being able to exercise it, the BOY SCOUTS, like many religions say we understand you, we know you believe your own way and we except that, we just want the freedom to believe and practice our way of thinking,
;
Gay Scouts are Fine , Make a Troop no one is stopping you that is freedom, you can do and believe the way you want but don't force it on me.
;
also no i am not actually comparing homosexuality to Bestiality, it was a metaphor, and I also am not part of some anti Gay rights group, I am for there rights, I am for every American being able to practice the lifestyle, and the way they feel there life is best lived without someone else saying no you have to except me,
;
Fat people are not allowed on a roller coaster , they have to buy a extra seat on a plane, some people choose to not bathe and refuse to wash there hair, I saw a lot of misfits in collage that is a great thing, it is diversity, being able to have a boys only club as a child is not wrong, or girls having slumber parties and no boys allowed .

the only reason the Gay community is acting like this is because they can, because they think they can force people to except them, but instead it is going to drive people apart.

if you don't get it maybe I can explain it better tomorrow .

At 12/5/07 03:32 AM, troubles1 wrote:

got back late read everyone post, and it seems to me that lots of people are missing the point, TRUE FREEDOM, MEANS having a belief in something and being able to exercise it, the BOY SCOUTS, like many religions say we understand you, we know you believe your own way and we except that, we just want the freedom to believe and practice our way of thinking,

Shouldn't gay people have the same rights, ture freedom would mean they could join.

At 12/4/07 10:24 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote:

Not every homosexual is out to take advantage of young impessionible boys. Anyone who thinks this is branded a bigot. Forever.

You seem to ignore the homosexual part. It just lowers the chance of kids being molested. If a bunch of homos get offended by not being scout master, they can damn well stay offended.

And I'm bisexual so +100 points.

No, you fail by a lot.

Black people on average does more crime than for example white people.

YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS? LET'S BAN BLACK PEOPLE FROM BEING BOY SCOUTS LEADERS. THEY WILL ROB AND MURDER OUR CHILDREN.

At 12/4/07 10:24 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote: You seem to ignore the homosexual part. It just lowers the chance of kids being molested. If a bunch of homos get offended by not being scout master, they can damn well stay offended.

And I'm bisexual so +100 points.

Dude, you're just a homophobe. And a bit of a bigot.

There's probably a better chance for you to be raping young boys than a homosexual.

At 12/4/07 10:24 PM, chocolate-penguin wrote: You seem to ignore the homosexual part. It just lowers the chance of kids being molested. If a bunch of homos get offended by not being scout master, they can damn well stay offended.

you're a disgrace to our nation and humanity in general. Homosexuals are no more likely to molest children than heterosexuals.

Lol, the same people who claim that Bush is "forcing democracy/freedom" and that by doing so, it isn't really freedom, are now saying that to truely be free you MUST allow certain people into groups.

Nothing but hypocrites in this thread.

The only reason why this gets so much attention is because that's what minorities do. Minorities already have:

-Women Only
-Black Only
-Mexican Only
-Gay Only

Clubs/bars/pubs/groups/schools.

Basically what the gay community is trying to do here is say "Although we have these minority only organizations ect., we're still forcing you to accept us".

HAHAHA

As a straight who trained troops for two years I believe that legislated discrimination is wrong.

If people can't behave charge them with conduct unbecoming but start everyone on an equal footing :

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/200 7/12/03/gay-abandon-dont-ask-dont-tell/

At 12/5/07 01:41 PM, Memorize wrote: Basically what the gay community is trying to do here is say "Although we have these minority only organizations ect., we're still forcing you to accept us".

HAHAHA

WOW, you're an asshole... So you think that because minorities have a few exclusive groups and organizations that they should be denied equality? What the fuck is wrong with you?

At 12/5/07 01:41 PM, Memorize wrote: Lol, the same people who claim that Bush is "forcing democracy/freedom" and that by doing so, it isn't really freedom, are now saying that to truely be free you MUST allow certain people into groups.

Nothing but hypocrites in this thread.

The only reason why this gets so much attention is because that's what minorities do. Minorities already have:

-Women Only
-Black Only
-Mexican Only
-Gay Only

Clubs/bars/pubs/groups/schools.

Basically what the gay community is trying to do here is say "Although we have these minority only organizations ect., we're still forcing you to accept us".

HAHAHA

Basically, you are just making a straw man of shit and punching it down, getting shit all over you.

Why the fuck are you telling me that I think X and Y? Just because I don't support that a organization should be allowed to discriminate AND keep their government funding doesn't mean that I automatically support other things.

I'm strongly against minority only groups. I'm okay with groups dedicated to helping a minority (anybody should be allowed to make a group for anything), but, I'm strongly against only letting people of that minority into the group. I see it no different than the scouts not allowing gay people.

At 12/5/07 02:42 PM, Musician wrote: So you think that because minorities have a few exclusive groups and organizations that they should be denied equality? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Wait a sec...
since when they're "exclusive"?

Yet another example of Memorize's lapse in judgement.
I've always been in some sort of club. MACSA, YMCA, Friends Outside, City Group (which is, effectively, a White Christian Group) and, etc--

and none of them had policies where you have to be a certain person to join. My university's LGBT accepts everyone. The gay bar I work at accepts anyone. MACSA, MAC.LA, etc-- you don't need to be Latino to join. In High School-- I was in the Vietnamese Club, but I'm Latino.

In City Group, nobody was Catholic. (I was Catholic back then) But that didn't mean I couldn't be with them.

And even if there's on place that act like assholes... usually, they're the exception.

Just because it's a "____________ Club" doesn't mean it's an exclusive club.

At 12/5/07 02:49 PM, Drakim wrote: Basically, you are just making a straw man of shit and punching it down, getting shit all over you.

Awe...

Why the fuck are you telling me that I think X and Y? Just because I don't support that a organization should be allowed to discriminate AND keep their government funding doesn't mean that I automatically support other things.

And who said I was talking to you?

But, there was a topic not long ago about gays fighting for a GAY ONLY bar and won. And I didn't see very many people like you being outraged.

At 12/5/07 04:25 PM, Memorize wrote: But, there was a topic not long ago about gays fighting for a GAY ONLY bar and won. And I didn't see very many people like you being outraged.

Honey-- that's an exception. Look in the bigger picture-- nearly all gay bars, clubs, events, etc actively invites all kinds of people to join.

Next week, I'm going to a bowling night where basically it's a gay bowling team. But, 3 of my friends are in it and they're married with wives and children.

At 12/5/07 04:25 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 12/5/07 02:49 PM, Drakim wrote: Basically, you are just making a straw man of shit and punching it down, getting shit all over you.

Awe...

I know. Maybe you should get a shower or something?

Why the fuck are you telling me that I think X and Y? Just because I don't support that a organization should be allowed to discriminate AND keep their government funding doesn't mean that I automatically support other things.

And who said I was talking to you?

You were talking to every single one in the thread.

But, there was a topic not long ago about gays fighting for a GAY ONLY bar and won. And I didn't see very many people like you being outraged.

I didn't know about it before. I know about it now. I am outraged.

At 12/5/07 04:50 PM, Drakim wrote:

You were talking to every single one in the thread.

In a general sense.

At 12/5/07 04:31 PM, fli wrote:

Honey-- that's an exception.

Reason: You're gay so it's OK! (insert smiley here)

At 12/5/07 04:56 PM, Memorize wrote: Reason: You're gay so it's OK! (insert smiley here)

Did you miss is key words "nearly all gay bars, clubs, events, etc actively invites all kinds of people to join."

At 12/5/07 04:59 PM, LordJaric wrote:

At 12/5/07 04:56 PM, Memorize wrote: Reason: You're gay so it's OK! (insert smiley here)

Did you miss is key words "nearly all gay bars, clubs, events, etc actively invites all kinds of people to join."

Did you miss the key word: NEARLY?

There, I did everything I could to highlight that to make sure your stupidity could still follow.

At 12/5/07 05:02 PM, Memorize wrote: Did you miss the key word: NEARLY?

Which also means most. Forgive if I'm wrong, but it has been sounding like you been saying most gay bars only except gays.

At 12/5/07 04:25 PM, Memorize wrote: But, there was a topic not long ago about gays fighting for a GAY ONLY bar and won. And I didn't see very many people like you being outraged.

Look, it's unfortunate that this kind of exclusion occurs. But I doubt that club receives money from the government, whereas the Boy Scouts do. Time and again, courts have upheld the right of privately-funded organizations to operate as they please. And time and again, they have upheld the judgment that publicly-funded groups must be open to all.

The Boy Scouts use my tax dollars. Therefore I, and every other taxpayer, get a say in how they run things. That's how it works.

At 12/5/07 05:18 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

Look, it's unfortunate that this kind of exclusion occurs. But I doubt that club receives money from the government, whereas the Boy Scouts do. Time and again, courts have upheld the right of privately-funded organizations to operate as they please. And time and again, they have upheld the judgment that publicly-funded groups must be open to all.

That's why I think it's absolutely hallarious that the gay community fights for Gay Only bars, but attacks eHarmony (PRIVATE) for not having an option for gays.

The Boy Scouts use my tax dollars. Therefore I, and every other taxpayer, get a say in how they run things. That's how it works.

And it's that which allows people to bitch and whine about the dumbest things.

At 12/5/07 05:10 PM, LordJaric wrote:

Which also means most. Forgive if I'm wrong, but it has been sounding like you been saying most gay bars only except gays.

Which also means "There are those that aren't" which means that those who bitch and cry about Heterosexual-Only groups typically don't complain about minority-only groups.

The point was that, although small, it still happens.

At 12/5/07 08:08 AM, LordJaric wrote:

At 12/5/07 03:32 AM, troubles1 wrote:

got back late read everyone post, and it seems to me that lots of people are missing the point, TRUE FREEDOM, MEANS having a belief in something and being able to exercise it, the BOY SCOUTS, like many religions say we understand you, we know you believe your own way and we except that, we just want the freedom to believe and practice our way of thinking,

Shouldn't gay people have the same rights, ture freedom would mean they could join.

Yes they should , they should be allowed to have a Rainbow scouts or whatever, they can say if you are straight then you can go to the boy scouts, it is choices , liberals are taking away our choices.
;
freedom is being able to own, or do as you feel is right, Gays are more and more trying to screw with religion, GOD had the book written, they just think they are better then him.
;
plus they like to take away the freedom of people who are doing a good thing for children because they think they can.

At 12/3/07 11:43 PM, troubles1 wrote:

This is America we should have the freedom to believe and live the way they want

Actually, contrary to an assumption made by everyone on this forum not everyone with an Internet connection lives in the United States.

At 12/6/07 12:58 AM, troubles1 wrote: freedom is being able to own, or do as you feel is right, Gays are more and more trying to screw with religion, GOD had the book written, they just think they are better then him.

Gays are trying to screw with religion how? Are you delusional?

At 12/5/07 01:41 PM, Memorize wrote: Lol, the same people who claim that Bush is "forcing democracy/freedom" and that by doing so, it isn't really freedom, are now saying that to truely be free you MUST allow certain people into groups.

Nothing but hypocrites in this thread.

Are you referring to me? Or are there others saying the same thing that I missed somewhere?

And anyways, our country is founded on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all. If what you do violates one of those rights for another, it shouldn't be allowed. "Live and let live", the founding cornerstone of our society.

If what you do limits my rights in the public setting, then you shouldn't be allowed to do it. And even though that restricts the freedom of that individual to do whatever they want, and it forces democracy, it's exactly what the Founding Fathers wanted. What you do behind closed doors is your own business, but exclusion on the public floor is anti-democratic. Unfortunately the anti-democratic action is the only option human thinking has come up thus far to solve it.

Live and let live only works when BOTH people consent to it, and if one person doesn't consent, then they aren't following the entire rationale behind America, Land of the Free.

Minority only groups (in the public) are a no-no.

At 12/6/07 12:58 AM, troubles1 wrote: freedom is being able to own, or do as you feel is right, Gays are more and more trying to screw with religion, GOD had the book written, they just think they are better then him.

You sir are wrong. The feeling of superiority is entirely on the religious side in this one. Marriage is THEIR right, and marriage is ONLY their right.

Gays want marriage, a right EVERYONE ELSE has. Idiots want to keep it from them, or grant it under the equally shitty and selfish guise of "Civil Unions", which if you're not a total idiot is the same Separate but Equal philosophy that got us in trouble once before......

"Nearly" means "most"-- and even if they don't print in exact words-- you will find the exception of "only gays" elsewhere.

Why are you blowing up the one exception I could ever find (and very wrongly assume that I agree with them because I'm gay) and conclude that the all the various identity clubs are the demonic plans of Liberalism?

Jesus Christ--

At 12/6/07 03:12 AM, fli wrote: you will NOT find the exception of "only gays" elsewhere.

gotta fix that problem.
All I could say about that bar is that I don't agree with them. But I can understand why they would want to do this.

so should the government, allow one organization dictate the rules in witch the boy scouts want to run itself.?
;yes we keep hearing it is government funded, but so is the military?

At 12/3/07 10:02 PM, LordJaric wrote: Funny, I was a Boy Scout, and I've never been discriminative.

Same. I was also agnostic, meaning technically I should never have been there in the first place anyways. hehe.