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At 12/3/07 07:53 AM, Chickidydow wrote: Glad to see someone who knows the difference, anyway all that means is you'll be able to understand my opinion all the better. A perfect Marxist Communism where everyone lives like the smurfs could never be supported by a government because then someone would have power. In communism everyone is supposed to be working and singing and sharing and having a great time being completely equal and there isn't supposed to be a government regulating them since then the administration wouldn't be equal/ That single reason is enough to say that democracy, and even a perfect Athenian Republic wouldn't mix with Perfect Communism. But if you meant a sort of toned town socialism then that may be a different story...

Well, I can imagine a society with a "communist government;" however, the society would have to have a social structure, moral center, and pride that fit with it before it could work. There wouldn't be any leaders, everything would be determined by vote of the majority and hence be a democracy. There wouldn't be property, everyone would share. I don't see it happening in todays world, but that's not to say it couldn't evolve one day in the right conditions. But in today's world it isn't practical at all.

With computers and robotics slowly able to be used efficently in the work force, it could happen.

At 12/3/07 08:45 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: .
^.- If you haven't noticed, communism is the opposite of fascism, just as capitalism is the opposite of left-wing anarchism.

I have not noticed. Tell me doesn't communism seek to control large aspects of private life? And doesn't capitalism seek to create a system were people are free to do whatever they like with their money irrespective of government control? I think you got it backwards there.

At 12/2/07 06:01 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

Capitalism and Democracy don't have to go hand in hand at all. Just because they do in this nation doesn't mean anything for any other nation or posible society. Democracy says that the people should have a voice, not that they should have property. If a democratic society chooses to have property, that's a democratic decision, but they could just as easily have a majority vote to share everything. Perhaps democracy and capitalism work will togeather, but that does not imply on any level that the only thing that works with democracy is capitalism.

You are correct that they do not have to go together, i am just saying they are philosophic bedfellows.

Also, please don't confuse socialism with communism. They arent the same thing at all.

Of course they are not the same thing, we do distinguish between the two but they are VERY similiar, with similiar goals, merely different ways toward achieving that goal.

At 12/3/07 07:54 PM, therealsylvos wrote:

At 12/2/07 06:01 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

Capitalism and Democracy don't have to go hand in hand at all. Just because they do in this nation doesn't mean anything for any other nation or posible society. Democracy says that the people should have a voice, not that they should have property. If a democratic society chooses to have property, that's a democratic decision, but they could just as easily have a majority vote to share everything. Perhaps democracy and capitalism work will togeather, but that does not imply on any level that the only thing that works with democracy is capitalism.

You are correct that they do not have to go together, i am just saying they are philosophic bedfellows.

Also, please don't confuse socialism with communism. They arent the same thing at all.

Of course they are not the same thing, we do distinguish between the two but they are VERY similiar, with similiar goals, merely different ways toward achieving that goal.

Socialism is supposedly a stage in which the government controls all means of production and the like. And its often described as a totalitarian government.

Perhaps this is the only form of "communism" out there today, but at least in my mind it's not the kind of communism that has to exist. Just because that's the way it has happened does not mean that it would have to be that way. I'm merely saying that perhaps the idea was taken in the wrong direction and that the core of communism, minus the totalitarian aspects could work with democracy, if the group of people that elected to live that way had the right structure and beliefs. Socialism will never lead to my view communism, as far as I'm concerned. A totalarian regime isn't democratic enough, and everyone would have to choose to be a communist for communism to work. That's where lennon got it wrong, you can't force communism, it just has to happen.

At 12/2/07 02:39 AM, King wrote: I've often wondered this, but what happens if a communist party is elected democratically? In the Russian election, what if the Communist party was elected? Or, to make it even more confusing, if a Communist party in Canada or the UK won a minority government? o.O I think the fourth wall would break and the Earth would asplode.

This is a very possible situation when a country is in a state of crisis.

THE FOLLOWING WOULD HAPPEN IF COMMUNIST PARTY OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION WAS ELECTED:

According to the program of the CPRF the plan of 7 steps would be put into effect:

1st Step:
Nationalisation

Firms extracting national resources, strategic companies including military companies would be nationalised to optimize their impact on the improvement of the living standart of all citizens.

2nd Step
Government - serving the people

-The government starts to serve its people. Through nationalised industries the government will have enough money to pull everyone out of poverty, raise pensions (the minimum pension will be increased by a multiple of 5) and salaries for workers.
-Social securities from soviet times will be revived, which means that families with children, handicapped, people with traumatic memories and veterans of labour will recieve strong governmental support.
-Students will recieve education grants of the size of minimum wage
-Population growth will be supported by the government through additional money as well as an expansion of kindergardens and childcare for babbies.
-The award "Mother Hero" will be restored
-Within 2 years there will be no more orphans on the streets. All will recieve great benefits and will be taken care by orphanages.
-Cultural buildings for the youth will be restored
...and many more...

I wont have the time to explain all the other steps, I just translate the titles for you from Russian:

3rd Step
Production means development

4th Step
Leadership of the people

5th Step
Independence of the nation
Safety for the citizens

6th Step
Human - the most precious

7th Step
All power to the Soviets (Councils)

Councils will be set up, where the working people get to decide what the government has to do and where it should set its priorities.

--From a booklet of the Communist Party of Russian Federation, Moscow 2007

PS:
I personally like this programm because it would end poverty and at the same time keeping a good economic growth and inhibiting brain drain and the decrease in population.

For Equality, Solidarity, Freedom, Democracy and Peace!
For Socialism!

At 12/5/07 02:10 PM, Kenzu wrote: THE FOLLOWING WOULD HAPPEN IF COMMUNIST PARTY OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION WAS ELECTED:

You're a moron.

At 12/5/07 05:02 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: socialism fails

You're a moron and you should quit the Internet.

Surely the U.S is against the communist party? Unless they're voted off, someone would seriously probably assassinate that contender.

At 12/5/07 06:36 PM, Empanado wrote:

At 12/5/07 02:10 PM, Kenzu wrote: THE FOLLOWING WOULD HAPPEN IF COMMUNIST PARTY OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION WAS ELECTED:

You're a moron.

At 12/5/07 05:02 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: socialism fails

You're a moron and you should quit the Internet.

Why should I listen to someone who supports Pinochet?

Listen Empanado, you are nothing more than an authoritarian nazi! Get out of Chile!

You just cant take it that your beloved Fuhrer died and the socialist party is leading Chile towards equality and freedom!

Capitalist dictatorships will always fail, because nothing can stop democratic socialism!

Long live Michelle Bachelet!

At 12/6/07 06:44 AM, Kenzu wrote: Why should I listen to someone who supports Pinochet?

God, you're such a tool. I guess that anyone who makes the obvious assumption that you're a moron is a nazi, right? Do you go around in school yelling at every teacher who gives you a lousy grade that they're opressive agents of capitalist dictatorship? You live in a very sad world.

No, I don't support Pinochet, you fucking moron. If you knew an ounce of Spanish, as you once claimed you did (and you don't, since you're full of shit), you would have realized that.

At 12/6/07 11:03 AM, Empanado wrote:

At 12/6/07 06:44 AM, Kenzu wrote: Why should I listen to someone who supports Pinochet?

God, you're such a tool. I guess that anyone who makes the obvious assumption that you're a moron is a nazi, right? Do you go around in school yelling at every teacher who gives you a lousy grade that they're opressive agents of capitalist dictatorship? You live in a very sad world.

I dont get bad grades and I live in a happy world.

No, I don't support Pinochet, you fucking moron. If you knew an ounce of Spanish, as you once claimed you did (and you don't, since you're full of shit), you would have realized that.

I didnt say I speak Spanish. Although I speak 7 languages, Spanish isnt one of them. Someone who speaks Spanish will still regard you as a supporter of Pinochet, since you use his name. No matter the name you use is Pinochet, or ''Pinochet boys''. You havent said anything in Spanish anyway!

Someone who insults has no arguments. Insulting someone is like admitting that you have lost the discussion.

PS: I am more experienced than you. You cant win a discussion against me!

At 12/6/07 01:12 PM, Kenzu wrote: No matter the name you use is Pinochet, or ''Pinochet boys''. You havent said anything in Spanish anyway!

No, they wouldn't, since by merely reading the article that is linked by the signature they'd know that Pinochet Boys was the name of a punk band which was, in fact, anti-Pinochet.

At 12/6/07 01:12 PM, Kenzu wrote: PS: I am more experienced than you. You cant win a discussion against me!

Experienced at what, exactly? At spouting meaningless garbage like "capitalism wah wah numbered days long live socilism rah viva fidel" and then pretending you've "won" an "argument"?

I'm having fun
*sips tereré*

At 12/6/07 07:58 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 12/6/07 01:12 PM, Kenzu wrote:

At 12/6/07 11:03 AM, Empanado wrote:

At 12/6/07 06:44 AM, Kenzu wrote:

PS: I am more experienced than you. You cant win a discussion against me!

no your just brainwashed you have to work to get what you want. and why the fuck should you pay HIGH TAXES FOR LOW QUALITY HEALTHCARE AND HOMELESS PEOPLE GETING IT FOR FREE WITH MY HARD EARNED TAX MONEY?

You are brainwashed, because you support a failed ideology which has been largely eliminated in many countries and soon will be replaced in the few countries it exists by social-democracies and socialism.

Supporting capitalism is like supporting the idea that if all people tried hard to be thiefs, they would all be rich. However that's not how the world works. Only some people have the skill to exploit other people, while not get killed, and only these people will become rich, while they feed on the suffering of the poor.

Health care in EU is the best health care in the world! (Canada is also very good, maybe as good as EU). We, Europeans don't mind paying higher taxes, when we know that the services that we recieve outweights the costs. Only in societies where wealth is redistributed effectively, living standart is maximised!

USA is crap. They spend millions on anything, yet they are too poor to afford a decent life for their citizens. If you are not a CEO, a business owner or a high ranking employee, you should emigrate from USA, because you will only be exploited and will stay poor forever!

At 12/7/07 01:28 PM, Kenzu wrote:

You are brainwashed, because you support a failed ideology which has been largely eliminated in many countries and soon will be replaced in the few countries it exists by social-democracies and socialism.

I laugh at the Idea of you in an economics class, perhaps you should step into a history one as well, then you wouldn't be so laughable.