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At 11/25/07 02:49 PM, SlithVampir wrote: Q= Is a virus a life?

A= No. It cannot fulfill a life process (reproduction) without an outside host. It also has no DNA.

Q= Is the fetus life?

A= No. It can fulfill no life processes without the mother's body (other than DNA), until 24 weeks (the shortest amount of gestation required for a premature baby to survive. 24 weeks is the longest pregnancy time before the abortion becomes illegal (at least in New York).

I missed this, but I've got one thing and one thing only to say about it.
Fucking
Pwnage

Abortion is a topic that I am scared to touch...
Because it all depends on a situation it is hard to make an ultimate decision on it...
Alot of religious rhetoric has been going on about aborting a child will defy god. Now this is a perfect example of the speculation of the topic; If someone has faith in god and these commandments they will obviously believe that abortion is moraly and spiritualy wrong.. As opposed to say an athiest, who isnt bound by religious morals, can have their own oppinion on this matter more easily.

However this is not about religion, but it is about speculation. Think if say the person was raped - and they couldnt have a child knowing that it was from an attacker who had scared them emotionally. In that situation I would say sure. However there are going to be the situations where teenagers will abuse this right and go in there to abort the embrio to avoid parental conflict - and ultimatly use it as a reason not to avoid sex...
But also what about the issues where if there ISNT going to be allowed abortions - there are many cases anually where women try to abort the embrio themselves using unhealthy and potentially lethal methods. What will we do when we have young women aborting children on their own, with no doctors to turn to as an alternitive?

Unfortunatly the law just wont allow abortion on special events, the law has to be made solidly. Because there are so many sides and observations to this issue, a democratic vote ultimatly won't be able to clear the conflict.

People have different interpretations on what is considered an abortion and what is not, but I could care less because my sister isn't a hooker.

Ahem ..

Simply put -

why the fuck do people go for abortions?it's when a woman realises that she cannot take care of the baby that is going to be born , and that she must destroy it's existence before it even has a chance to live..
My question - why does the baby have to pay for the mother's mistakes? Doesn't the foetus have a right to survive?

My conclusion - If you can't do the time , then don't do the crime.
If the bitch didn't want a baby , then she shouldn't have whored her ass around..

At 12/4/07 07:19 AM, rithel wrote: My conclusion - If you can't do the time , then don't do the crime.
If the bitch didn't want a baby , then she shouldn't have whored her ass around..

this is under the assumption that the mother is in fact a whore and did not take any precautions, or that it was of her own will. and a rather stupid comment to have as a conclusion since there is nothing wrong with sex.

At 12/4/07 07:19 AM, rithel wrote:

My question - why does the baby have to pay for the mother's mistakes? Doesn't the foetus have a right to survive?

Thats the thing...the baby has not formed a mind yet, therefore it is not considered..well you know what I mean. Thats the regular arguement and I agree with it. It has not been born yet, no feelings, no mind.
So it does not matter if abortion kills the "baby." Because it is not fully human.
Thats my opinion.

smilezroyal people actually do put children up for adoption after a few years of having them if they think there a burden which seems bad but its probably better than the alternative and and the U.S. isnt the highest job age limit like in germany you cant get a job until your 18 but on abortion i think if you don't want to have a kid use freaking birth control like the women should take the damn pill and the man should put his damn thing in a sleeve lol and if your afraid you might end up with a damn baby just dont do it i mainly think that abortion should for certain conditions like rape, save the mothers life, incest (which shouldn't happen unless theres some huge misunderstanding between long lost relitive or something or theres some form of rape), or if the person abusive(and then in some cases have it and government should take it away from them). The one thing i don't think abortion should be used for is as a form of birth control cause if someone tryies to pull that crap there just sick in the head. But this is only my opinion so if you disagree it's not like i'm trying to make fun of any one

At 12/4/07 07:19 AM, rithel wrote: If the bitch didn't want a baby , then she shouldn't have whored her ass around..

What happens if the mother is raped?

At 11/24/07 09:56 PM, LordJaric wrote: I don't consider it murder, but I do believe once the sperm and egg come together, it should be considered a seperet life.

exactly word for word what i wanted to say.

At 11/24/07 10:12 PM, LordJaric wrote: These are the only good reasons (not includeing medical research) I see for abortion.

1.The mother was raped.

2.The pregnancy will endanger the mothers life.

3.The child will have major health proplems (like short life span)

Other than that I don't see any good reason for an abortion, like it a two people got drunk and had sex, that is their fault, they should deal with the consequences.

Yes Abortion can Equal MURDER but it also doesn't some doctors want to say that babies Aren't Considered Alive till the Babe Has entered the thrid Trimister Thats true and others doctors also believe that if the potenial is there at day one then it's alive either way they think it's alive but at a diffrent stage So may i say that biased attitudes are on this Forum and yes i think abortion is wrong but i look at it from both sides not just from mine if some of you people don't get it.

So have a Deep THought about what i just said and Maybe Something might Hit you

At 11/25/07 06:13 PM, Memorize wrote:

After all, nobody could argue that it should be illegal just because it's ALIVE, as long as you have no problems with removing the life of other animals and plants. What is important is if it can suffer (which of course most animals can, which is why I'm a vegetarian).

It can be switched: How can you be a vegetarian and have your position?

And on top of that: Plants are living too, you know.

First off, I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion, so of course it could be no conflict even if proved that the suffering is bigger with an abortion than without (you know, being a vegetarian isn't the same as thinking it should be in the law, I'm pro-choice there to, while thinking vegetarianism is the good thing).

I've already stated that plants are alive, actually that's excactly what I was saying. The important thing isn't if it is alive, it's if it suffers. There's no evidence of plants suffering by me killing them, but there is evidence of a cow suffering if I kill it.

You know, thinking about the PM's you've sent me, talking about stupidity is quite hypocritical.
"Your mom is a whore who certainly didn't know how to raise any smart children."

Only logical answer I could come up with for you.

After all, only judging from the PM doesn't make me "stupid" therefore it doesn't make me "hypocritical".

Actually using "your mom is a whore" is a good way to prove yourself stupid. I mean, It's quite easy to insult me, being in a depression and all, but that wouldn't insult anyone.

This is why I think 24 weeks is too much for normal circumstances.

If a 24-week fetus IS suffering.
Also, I forgot to note, that I don't think it's always evil to do something for yourself despite someone else suffering if the other's suffering is less than the suffering you would get by not doing it (for example, I don't consider it evil to jump out of a bus' way, even if you land on someone's toe and was aware of the risk prior to this).

1 Word: contraception. Massive amounts. The pill should at least be as widespread as Vioxx, if not much more. And it won't even kill you!

Could't agree more. Contraceptives should be free of charge, as the cost a lack of them has on society is much greater.

How can you ignore the studies of the brain waves coming from the fetus? Especially the part where the brain waves signified that the fetus could feel pain?

Brain waves isn't equal to pain, and pain isn't equal to consciousness.
After all, an insect also feels pain and you WOULD do things that rendered a mosquito dead if it leeched of you, right?

At 12/3/07 04:58 AM, TonyTostieno wrote:
I missed this, but I've got one thing and one thing only to say about it.
Fucking
Pwnage

I know.

Now, humans, I wish to make a point:

Abortion is bad.

I wish to stop it.

But the question is: how to do this? Not by making it illegal welcome to El Salvador

Wait... I know how! What we have to do, on a national scale, is generally stop bitching around about sex.

This "abstinence only" shit that they teach in the hills of Alabama has to stop. Yes, abstinence will prevent 100% of unplanned pregnancies. Trouble is, 100% of teenagers aren't going to be abstinent. Far fewer, in reality.

We MUST make condoms, as well as other birth control, a part of every sex ed class in the country, and these contraceptives must be made available for a low cost.

Think about the numbers, folks. Abstinence prevents 100% of abortions in AT BEST 20% of kids. Condoms AT WORST prevent 90% of pregnancies and STD passings.

Therefore, you prevent 90% of abortions. AND you get to be progressive, rather than fascist (like El Salvador in that link)

Everybody wins!

At 12/3/07 04:58 AM, TonyTostieno wrote: Think about the numbers, folks. Abstinence prevents 100% of abortions in AT BEST 20% of kids. Condoms AT WORST prevent 90% of pregnancies and STD passings.

Acctualy Condoms Prevent STDS and Pregnacies by 99.9%

Good point! Please don't let them outlaw masturbation! If you don't use it you lose it!

At 12/4/07 07:19 AM, rithel wrote: My question - why does the baby have to pay for the mother's mistakes?

Why does hundreds of thousands of people have to pay for you jerking off?
Oh, right! They're not people, they're semen. They can only become people under certain circumstances. Just like fetuses.

i believe that until the baby can survive outside he womb, abortion should still be allowed

At 12/9/07 09:06 PM, TheUnknownVoice wrote:

At 12/3/07 04:58 AM, TonyTostieno wrote: Think about the numbers, folks. Abstinence prevents 100% of abortions in AT BEST 20% of kids. Condoms AT WORST prevent 90% of pregnancies and STD passings.

Acctualy Condoms Prevent STDS and Pregnacies by 99.9%

Wrong. Condoms prevent pregnancies by 85-90% generally, and up to 98% if applied properly, and prevent STDs by ~85%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom#In_p reventing_pregnancy