Forum Topic: Xbox 360 Achievements

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BananaBreadMuffin

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:34 PM

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Let me get this out of the way first, I think achievement points are a great idea

//

Having said that, I think that they're greatly flawed.

No, that's wrong. I don't think that. There's nothing wrong with achievement points. The problem lies with the developers (I assume that the task of assigning achievement points falls on the developers) or whoever sits down in a meeting and says, right, the topic of the day today, achievements in our new game.

Gamer points, in my opinion, are HORRIBLY imbalanced from game to game. I know people who rent games solely for gamer points. What? What did I miss, where somebody's prepared to spend five hours and five pounds to have a few hundred more gamer points on your profile? I read somewhere that the highest gamer score is around 150,000. While browsing through gamefaq-esque sites called xbox360achivements.com or something like that, I noticed somebody who had a sig linking to a page where they listed every game they had 1000 gamer points on, the date they 100%'d it, and how long it took them.

And now the gaming community is creaming its pants because the new Avatar game lets you get 1000 gamer points in 3 minutes? Well fuck that. If I'm looking at your gamer card and you have lots of gamer points, but then I look at your games and see Avatar there, I'm not going to think you're more of a man, you're more of a gamer, all you are in my eyes is more of a fool. A friend came round for a few beers and a gaming night, we went down to blockbuster to try and find a split-screen co-op game, in the end we chose Fantastic Four, because Blockbusters choice was shockingly limited. In one evening I racked up around 400 gamer points, and then in the next day I gained a further 200 or so (some mysterious glitch wiped all but 40 of them from my profile the next week, which is both a shame and not a shame, see my next paragraph.).

//

Anyway, that's enough ranting about people who are obsessed with gamerpoints, partly because if I go any further it'll be hugely hypocritical, rendering this whole rant largely a waste of time. I have (over NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND) gamer points, and I do have times when I look at my gamer card and think "Right, what gamer points can I get today?".
I thoroughly enjoy seeing that message at the bottom of the screen and hearing that customary 'boop' sound that signifies that I have unlocked an achievement.

//

//

So this brings me on to thhe second part of my rant, which is aimed at the people who decide what gamer points to have. This new Avatar game is a good and relevant example. There are 4 or so achievements, each one is for performing an X move combo, which you just hold/tap B on the first level to get all four. At what point did the developers think that they would be a good idea for ALL the achievement points to be assigned to? For something that they must have, at some point, realised is easily achieveable within the first level. And they don't give any for say, completing the game? Moving neatly on from that, the next game that's oft-discussed in reference to gamer score is King Kong, where playing through the game once nets you 1000 gamer points, with no achievements for doing extras or going beyond the call of duty or anything. And that brings me neatly onto the next game. Call of Duty 4. The achievements are good in CoD4. There are the generic "Completed level" achievements, but they're given snappy names and descriptions that you could let out a silent chuckle to, plus there are the extra achievements that don't have much relevance in-game, but are just neat to see acknowledged. On the level that's in the demo, (MIDDLE EAST CAPITAL CITY at night, where you fight your way to the tank in the bog) at one point you and a guy go up the stairs, and he's killed in a scripted thing. But, if you rush ahead of him and kill his would be assailant, you get an achievement for something that has no game consequence. I really enjoy seeing achievements that have been given some thought, they're extras and they know it. Anyway, CoD4. It's a swell game, and arguably, 75% of the game IS the highly tuned, well-refined multiplayer. So why have the entirety of the gamer points, to my knowledge, distributed among the single player levels? It makes the multiplayer seem tacked on in a way, which it is anything but. It makes the game seem like it's living a bit of a half life. Following on from that, Half Life 2: Orange Box. Is five games in one, If you actually look at it, I'd say 2.5 is a closer approximation. Yet you only get 1000 points. This makes each achievement feel largely insignificant compared to other games, when, for example, you get mere pittance in gamer points when you make it through Ravenholm without firing any gun (just using your gravity gun), fighting off hordes and hordes of ravaging zombies. On the matter of ravaging zombies, there is the Xbox 360 classic, Dead Rising. There are 50 excellent achievements on this game, nearly all for either completion of tasks (e.g. completing the game), collecting (eg trying on all the clothes), others (e.g. taking photos of a lot of zombies), and some plain insane ones (FUCK YOU OTIS I DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO ALL YOUR CALLS YOU USELESS SACK OF SHIT >:(). So why am I complaining? I think the mix of easy, hard, obvious, cryptic, and amusing achievements is excellent in Dead Rising. But each one gives you twenty experience points. TWENTY. In Viva Piñata I'm given 20 achievement points for RENAMING A FUCKING PIÑATA, and in Dead Rising, I'm given twenty points for surviving for seven days, that's FOURTEEN HOURS OF SITTING AROUND WATCHING MY HEALTH BE SAPPED INTO OBLIVION. Thanks a fucking load, Capcom. So, when discussing oblivion, it is only right to mention Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. An incredible game, one of the greatest games on the Xbox 360 (indeed, according to GameRankings, the fourth best game on the Xbox 360). However, the achievements seem to have had very little thought put into them. They are ALL attainable through the main quest, the Thieves Guild, Assassins Guild, Fighters Guild, and Mages guild quests. That doesn't sound so bad, however, this is a game of infinite possibilities. There are literally thousands of locations that can only be found by exploring the game area, but you never get achievements for say, discovering 50% of these. There are dozens of extra quests that reward you with gold, an enchanted ring, a sword, a new spell, whatever. There are no achievements for completing all of these official side quests. There are the Daedric Shrines, no achievements for them. I could go on and on. None of these have achievements, and do you know what? When I hit 1000 gamerpoints on Oblivion (the only game I have managed to do so on), I put down the game. I had completed a good deal of these side quests and found a great deal of these discoveries, but I lost an impetus to continue after reaching that great milestone.

//

//

So, what is there to do? Well, not a lot, the achievements for the games I have listed so far will almost certainly not change, and I'll still boot up my Xbox every now and then thinking "I am going to spend a length of time on a game pursuing a single achievement", and then I'll do so, and I'll enjoy it. Gamer points are infectious, they are one of the big success stories of the xbox, and they undoubtedly improve any game, be it through simply making a game more interesting to play through, making a dull game more enticing when you walk into Blockbuster, or simply adding replayability to a game and adding a reason to collect hidden Easter egg collectables like orbs in Crackdown and flags in Assassin's Creed. No, they'll never be perfect, there'll never be a game with perfect achievements, but what can I do? Sometimes I suppose I just have to sit back, relax, and appreciate that life goes on. And as this rant draws to a close, I have just finished completing the mundane task of collecting every flag in Masyaf. Why? I had picked them up previously as I had seen them, so that I had 15/20, so I spent a good portion of my time simply finding each of these flags. Why? Achievements. Prestige.

//

/endrant.

Xbox 360 Achievements

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Grimfenix

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:38 PM

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That Dead Rising "zombie Genocider" achievement was a bitch to get,

> z0r. (Random, and possibly NSFW.)
> Sig by lopas1.

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Kuro

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:41 PM

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So what do you do with these points once you get them?

Kuro - Puting the 'Kur' back in 'inkurable disease.'

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Dobio

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:45 PM

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I think this has been said before, but regardless, I agree with a lot of what you were saying.

People used to bitch at me because I'd have a lot of sports games on my profile, giving me 1000 points per game or w/e....the people who were in competition or w/e with my gamerscore....that always bugged me, because I didn't go out and rent the sports games, I own most of the ones on my profile...and the reason I own them is the same reason I own them on my PS2....I like sports games.

It's not my problem that the developers made 'easy' achievements for sports games....I used to be all about the achievements...I'd play games that I didn't even like just because I wanted the 1000....but I'm kinda over that, mostly because I simply can't afford to keep pace with everyone else with rentals and buying arcade games, but also because now there are a lot of good games that I WANT to play, that have achievement point tallies that TAKE a long time to get.

Honestly, I think a game like Marvel : Ultimate Alliance pretty much nailed the achievement setup. They have a good mix of multiplayer, single player, optional, and mandatory things, and the point schemata is set up nicely.

I do think though, it's hard to scale every game to be worth the same. For example, take Final Fantasy 11....every achievement except for a couple are get such and such job to level 75....that's...unless you're hardcore and play everyday all day...a 2-6 month effort minimum...for 30 points.

Then I go out and rent Cars, and get 300 points for a task that takes five minutes...so I can see your complaints.

Honestly though, from a marketing standpoints, achievements are brilliant...they make people go out and buy or at least rent games that before they wouldn't have even touched. Even a stinker like Bomberman 3-D ends up being played, simply because people want all the points they can get.

...the developers though, in their defense, are getting better, especially with good games with making achievements more about replay value and less about beating the game....it's funny though, there's people who will simply stop playing games once they hit 1000, like it's a waste of time....people forget that gaming is about gaming, not points...and I've realized that myself.

Anyhoo, good rant.

I'm A World Famous Superstar
My X-Box 360 Gamertag : Dobio Currently rocking with 79,279 Gamerscore

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cornbin

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:46 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:41 PM, Kuro wrote: So what do you do with these points once you get them?

Nothing. It's like level or post count. You get respect,where sometimes it isn't quite due.

I've been Fab since the re-design,have you?
JUST BECAUSE I LISTEN TO COREY HART :'[

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Kuro

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:47 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:46 PM, cornbin wrote: Nothing. It's like level or post count. You get respect,where sometimes it isn't quite due.

Oh, for a second I thought there was actually some use in getting these achievements.

Kuro - Puting the 'Kur' back in 'inkurable disease.'

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cornbin

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:49 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:46 PM, cornbin wrote:
At 11/24/07 04:41 PM, Kuro wrote: So what do you do with these points once you get them?
Nothing. It's like level or post count. You get respect,where sometimes it isn't quite due.

Oh and by the way,I just read your whole post BBM. I honestly wish developers or whoever makes the achievement points should pull a party in of say,non-gamers, explain what achievements are and ask "Do you think this is too easy? Too over the top?" Maybe that would fix it,maybe not.

I've been Fab since the re-design,have you?
JUST BECAUSE I LISTEN TO COREY HART :'[

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InternetOutlaw

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:50 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:47 PM, Kuro wrote:
At 11/24/07 04:46 PM, cornbin wrote: Nothing. It's like level or post count. You get respect,where sometimes it isn't quite due.
Oh, for a second I thought there was actually some use in getting these achievements.

Nope! They just make you look more experienced.


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Nicholas-Deary

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:50 PM

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I've only got about 2750 GamerScore.


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Luxury-Yacht

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:50 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:49 PM, cornbin wrote:
Oh and by the way,I just read your whole post BBM. I honestly wish developers or whoever makes the achievement points should pull a party in of say,non-gamers, explain what achievements are and ask "Do you think this is too easy? Too over the top?" Maybe that would fix it,maybe not.

Aren't those just consultants?

Yeah, those are usually a good idea to have.


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MetalDart

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:51 PM

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I agree with you too.

Achievements are nice, but to get really kiddy games for it is insane.
Also, most of the ones I need on games like Gears of War, Lost Planet, Halo 3, etc. are online awards.

I don't have online. :'(

Still, 3 MINUTES? WOW, what do you do to get it?

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Skybolt-DX

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:52 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:51 PM, MetalDart wrote:

Still, 3 MINUTES? WOW, what do you do to get it?

You press the start button.


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someguy789

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Posted at: 11/24/07 04:56 PM

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I completely agree with what you said. Like with oblivion (Also my only game so far to 1000 on), after I got all the achievements I went exploring all the places. But after doing maybe... 1/3 to 1/2 of all the places it got boring. If only they had achievements for doing stuff like that, I'd have an incentive to continue playing it.


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UltimateCyprien

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Posted at: 11/24/07 05:00 PM

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Those achievements, it's just one big popularity contest. People who actually invest time in largening their digital ego are beyond pathetic.


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cornbin

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Posted at: 11/24/07 05:04 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:50 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:
At 11/24/07 04:49 PM, cornbin wrote:
Oh and by the way,I just read your whole post BBM. I honestly wish developers or whoever makes the achievement points should pull a party in of say,non-gamers, explain what achievements are and ask "Do you think this is too easy? Too over the top?" Maybe that would fix it,maybe not.
Aren't those just consultants?

Yeah, those are usually a good idea to have.

Yes but consultants from where? I'm under the impression they'll just be "yes-men".

I've been Fab since the re-design,have you?
JUST BECAUSE I LISTEN TO COREY HART :'[

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Skarien

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Posted at: 11/24/07 05:10 PM

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What do gamerpoints do besides increase your loser status?

I can explain..


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Armerad

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Posted at: 11/24/07 05:11 PM

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At 11/24/07 04:34 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote::

There are the Daedric Shrines, no achievements for them. :




If y0u do them all you get an achievement....

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Saint-Jesus

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Posted at: 11/24/07 05:13 PM

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I never knew about these points. I have never seen them on my Xbox


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AlkaSeltzer

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Posted at: 11/24/07 05:16 PM

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At 11/24/07 05:13 PM, Saint-Jesus wrote: I never knew about these points. I have never seen them on my Xbox

They are talking about the next-gen xbox, or are you making a joke?

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BananaBreadMuffin

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Posted at: 11/24/07 06:48 PM

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At 11/24/07 05:06 PM, green-day-fan1 wrote: Wall of text hurt brain.

I don't think you can hurt things that don't exist.

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cornbin

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Posted at: 11/24/07 07:26 PM

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At 11/24/07 06:48 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote:
At 11/24/07 05:06 PM, green-day-fan1 wrote: Wall of text hurt brain.
I don't think you can hurt things that don't exist.

Burn McDisser is your new name BBM.

I've been Fab since the re-design,have you?
JUST BECAUSE I LISTEN TO COREY HART :'[

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JaconWes

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Posted at: 11/24/07 07:55 PM

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COD 4 so far has the best Achievement pics. I just love that close up of Captain Price.


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Reyals

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Posted at: 11/24/07 08:09 PM

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I never got into gamer points, mainly because while they add to a game's replayability (I know its not a word, but you get my point), I'd much rather just play it. Like you said, the games differ. I have a little over a thousand, but most of those were around 5-15 each. I'm always delighted if I get one, but I only try to get them in some games, like Guitar Hero.

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chewy130

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Posted at: 11/24/07 08:10 PM

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i didnt read ur full post but theres this one achievement in half life 2 that was really neat.
in the begining of HL2 when your still in the jail building thing the guard knocks a can on the ground and wont let you pass until you put it in the trashcan. but instead i picked the can up and threw it at him and he chased me, while we chased me i ran around him and went through the gate, and got an achievement lol.


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Para-Noid

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Posted at: 11/24/07 08:33 PM

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I'd say at first I had no clue what it was. But then I played NBA 2k6 and got all 1000 points in one game. I was like wow. I got like 1000 points now. Then I fell in love with them. I rented games just for some points. I bought cheaper games just for points. I cheated on NCAA 08 to get points with my friend which I know a lot of people have done knowing sport games. But I have hit some achievements which I just could not get. Then I get mad because I can't get it. At first all games had easy easy achievements. Now the newer games you have to do sooooo much just for 5 points.

I got 12254

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jewdudewtf

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Posted at: 11/24/07 08:49 PM

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I personally just got a 360 and that being said, I don't have very much gamerscore.
I bought Guitar Hero 3 and borrowed Guitar Hero 2 from a friend, and I was hoping to have 2,000 points by the end of this week. I now see that its not so easy. And I remember being very downtrout thinking that all game would be that hard to get points for. But then I rented TimeShift, (which I don't recommend) and the points were a lot eaiser to get then the GH games.

But I suppose that its up to the developers how the spread their Achievement points.


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Simple

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Posted at: 11/24/07 08:50 PM

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Ok i can't belive i actualy sat here and read all that, but it is true.

I had Dead Rising and Viva Pinata and i was pissed when i found out that all the achivements were worth 20, a few easy 20's but then some solid 20's like Zombie Genocider.

Halo 3 has rediculous achivements ( the online ones) they are all in lone wolfs and are worth 5 each, they should have took 5 gp off the campaign levels and added them to the online achivements.

Also 21,000+ Gamerscore.

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AlkaSeltzer

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Posted at: 11/24/07 08:57 PM

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At 11/24/07 08:50 PM, Psycho-Simple wrote:
Halo 3 has rediculous achivements ( the online ones) they are all in lone wolfs and are worth 5 each, they should have took 5 gp off the campaign levels and added them to the online achivements.

Also 21,000+ Gamerscore.

I know Halos achievements are pathetic. Overkill is always based on luck, however good you are.

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Nicholas-Deary

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Posted at: 11/24/07 09:19 PM

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the thing is that I wouldn't want to buy any other console now, becasue 360 is the only console with achievements and I love the idea of achievements and the prospect of gaining achievements.


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lawlmaster

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Posted at: 11/24/07 10:14 PM

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fuck you im not reading all of that!!!!


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