Ron Paul?

[nal1200]

I've recently been informed that Ron Paul is running for President in '08.

Some of his obligations as prez are to:

"End the income tax"
"abolish the IRS"
"abolish federal reserve"
"end Iraq war"

I'm not much for politics, but what do you guys think about this?

[lumpypaint]

do you know of how many promises Bush made back in 2000 that he still hasnt fufilled? If Ron is anything like Bush, hell Win our votes, deceive us, then corrupt power.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Ron paul is just a senile old man who is being supported by conspiracy theorists and the poor. and half the shit he wants to do to our country will send it to hell even though he is concerened for our economy if he axes the IRS and federal reserve he'll send this fine country to hell. he wants the US to withdraw from the U.N. and NATO how fucking stupid is he? isolationism is not the right way to go espically wehen the U.N is located in the US

now lets see how long this thread will last before it gets locked by a mod. because he is a failure

[Abele]

There are numerous threads about Ron Paul. Search before you make more.

[Jon4life]

The only good think about him is he wants to get out of Iraq. Ok, but what about everything else? Like health care for children he doesn't give a shit. Hes that type of person who agrees with everyone else on one thing but is totally doesn't care about the other problems that are happening. I wouldn't vote for him if I could.

[greyface01]

At 11/21/07 04:50 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: Ron paul is just a senile old man who is being supported by conspiracy theorists and the poor. and half the shit he wants to do to our country will send it to hell even though he is concerened for our economy if he axes the IRS and federal reserve he'll send this fine country to hell. he wants the US to withdraw from the U.N. and NATO how fucking stupid is he? isolationism is not the right way to go espically wehen the U.N is located in the US

now lets see how long this thread will last before it gets locked by a mod. because he is a failure

...The Federal Reserve is a private corporatation, thats not a theory, thats a fact, it loans the government printed money at interest, and the only way the government (people) can pay it back is with more printed money, with interest...Of course poor people like him (whats wrong with poor people liking him, are poor people less intelligent than the rich?), the government is in a huge debt because of its teaming up with private banks, the american people have to suffer...Thats not a theory.....How can the country be worse off without the federal reserve and the IRS, the income tax goes to paying the interest on our printed money, I guess the worst that could happen is the standard of living could go up, our money would be backed by something other than debt, and we could stop pissing off nations in the middle east, preventing more attacks and more wars. He's not going for isolationism, just to stop being the world police. America is acting like an empire with how many military bases we have stationed around the world, putting a strain on America and its citizens. Ron Paul wants to take care of American citizens.......Bush said the U.N. was irrelavent went we invaded Iraq for weapons that werent there, because the ones Saddam did have he used against Iran under U.S. supervision..

VOTE RON PAUL!!!!!!

The war on drugs is a false war, billions of dollars dissapear every year, its just like prohibition, it doesnt work, drug problems are only getting worse, and the harsh penelties and lack of rehab centers bring violence up.

[cellardoor6]

If we were not in a war right now.
If we were not on the brink of an energy crisis.
If Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Cuba, China and several other countries were friendly.
If our country had no use for competing in the global market.

THEN I might consider voting for Ron Paul. But the nature of the world right now doesn't call for an isolationist as President of the US.

[CogSpin]

Ron Paul is needed now more than ever. Don't be fooled into thinking we've got ourselves into a crisis and the only way out is to continue the same stupid strategies.

Do you not see that the dollar is now worthless. Iran's President just recently called it a "worthless piece of paper". Once the dollar dies, the US, Canada and Mexico will form the North American Union. A new Amero currency will be introduced and all of your previous savings and the US constitution itself will be worthless. Martial Law will be declared. The US will then operate on a level similar to third world countries.

It is at that point you will wish you had voted for Ron Paul.

[greyface01]

At 11/22/07 05:20 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: If we were not in a war right now.
If we were not on the brink of an energy crisis.
If Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Cuba, China and several other countries were friendly.
If our country had no use for competing in the global market.

THEN I might consider voting for Ron Paul. But the nature of the world right now doesn't call for an isolationist as President of the US.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist, he belives in trading with everyone, but allying with no one (permanently)...thats what our founding fathers belived...Why are we in a war right now?...Because we ivaded that coulntry, which we will do next to iran and syria, why would those countries be freindly to us....We are NOT on the brink of an energy crises, there is oil in south america, alaska, antarctica, plus what about the fact that if we were in an oil energy crises its only because of our controlling foreign policy. If those other countries are that bad, than the rest of the world would defend us anyway, but I dont belive those countries would be a direct threat if we just traded with them and stayed out of trying to tell them how to run their nation...you cant force democracy on a people, they have to demand it...

[LordJaric]

At 11/22/07 03:59 PM, greyface01 wrote: Ron Paul is not an isolationist, he belives in trading with everyone, but allying with no one (permanently)...thats what our founding fathers belived...

Back then, yes that was reasonable, but now no, pulling us out of NATO and the UN are just stupid ideas.

[Zeistro]

The thing I respect most about Ron Paul is he strikes me as the kind of fella that will come out and speak his mind, no matter how unpopular he is with his own party. Whether or not you agree with him on the issues, you can concur we have enough dishonest politicians willing to say anything if it is politically expedient.

[Abele]

Anyone else notice how the Ron Paul support base is an almost cult-like organization? 99% of them are crazed youths with delusions of grandeur (well, delusions of doom- seeing how they project our future). I see them pop up all over the place. I was driving under a bridge last week and saw a "Ron Paul: Revolution" sign hanging from it. What the fuck?

Ron Paul has no chance in hell. He will take up plenty of votes seeing as there are plenty of looneys in the country, but he will never be our president. Ron Paul's policies will land us two inches away from anarchy, which I'm sure the founding fathers would not want to happen.

What really ticked me off though was when he raised all that money on November 5th and all his crazy fanboys went nuts. Let's honor a real hero on the 5th of November- my boy Guy Fawkes.

[SmilezRoyale]

Too many Ron paul threads...

The one thing about ron paul is that his voting record doesn't contradict his stance on the issues, he might be crazy, but he's honest.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

ha im glad ron paul wont win anyways.

Bets for Ron paul geting party nomination for Republicans: 1 in 78

Bets for Ron paul geting Presidency: 1 in 132

[Metalmyth]

I think that regardless of how we feel about his stance on anything, he comes across as sincerely believing what he says, and his voting record backs him up on that as well, as someone else on this thread pointed out.

In any case, I wouldn't vote for him, but I'd understand why someone would.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

HA ron paul is just supported ny the mentally disturbed, druggies and conspiracy theorists. and thier just a minority

[ngmastah]

Dont believe him, bush made promises that he didnt keep, what makes you think rons gonna do the same?

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 11/22/07 10:55 PM, ngmastah wrote: Dont believe him, bush made promises that he didnt keep, what makes you think rons gonna do the same?

why ditd you think I voted democrate.

[iiREDii]

At 11/21/07 04:35 AM, lumpypaint wrote: do you know of how many promises Bush made back in 2000 that he still hasnt fufilled? If Ron is anything like Bush, hell Win our votes, deceive us, then corrupt power.

It has been the mantra of many a democrat and a republican. Peace Peace Peace! then followed with years of war. And yet, the public buys the lie every time.

[iiREDii]

At 11/22/07 05:20 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: If we were not in a war right now.
If we were not on the brink of an energy crisis.
If Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Cuba, China and several other countries were friendly.
If our country had no use for competing in the global market.

THEN I might consider voting for Ron Paul. But the nature of the world right now doesn't call for an isolationist as President of the US.

In a war we started?
In a 'energy crisis' that is being pushed by foiegn intervention and restrictions on trade?
If all these nations werent made hostile to us by our aggressive foriegn policy

and finally

ron paul has never advocated economic isolationism. so that is a straw man argument

[Imperator]

At 11/22/07 08:22 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Too many Ron paul threads...

Yeah.

The one thing about ron paul is that his voting record doesn't contradict his stance on the issues, he might be crazy, but he's honest.

Yup. Which is why he gets my vote.

[Humbucker740]

At 11/22/07 10:55 PM, ngmastah wrote: Dont believe him, bush made promises that he didnt keep, what makes you think rons gonna do the same?

What does Bush have to do with Ron Paul?

[TheMason]

At 11/21/07 04:35 AM, lumpypaint wrote: do you know of how many promises Bush made back in 2000 that he still hasnt fufilled? If Ron is anything like Bush, hell Win our votes, deceive us, then corrupt power.

This is the problem with politics in such a large country. You cannot fulfill all of your campaign promises because no one in the govt has absolute power. There is always an opposition party as well as diverse interests from locale to locale, which will always make it impossible for any president to come through on their promises.

That is one of the problems with our system, the electorate has no understanding of the system, overexaggerated expections of what a person/branch can do or both.

[TheMason]

At 11/22/07 03:59 PM, greyface01 wrote: ... We are NOT on the brink of an energy crises, there is oil in south america, alaska, antarctica, plus what about the fact that if we were in an oil energy crises its only because of our controlling foreign policy. ...

Actually we are, while there are numerous sources of oil, there is increased competition by China. Haven't you noticed the price of gas going up? About 8yrs ago the price fluctuated between $1.00-1.40 depending on what part of the country you were in. While many like to point the finger to Bush, that is not correct because he has little to do with it. The main boogey man for gas now being around $3.00 is that China's population are driving more and the demand for oil is increasing. It is simple laws of supply and demand...markets are opening up that has more than 3x than the US' population (the current #1 consumer of oil) which means there is an increased demand for oil worldwide. However, the supply is remaining about the same.

Therefore:

Increased demand + Static supply = Energy crisis.

[Humbucker740]

At 11/26/07 05:18 PM, TheMason wrote:

At 11/22/07 03:59 PM, greyface01 wrote: ... We are NOT on the brink of an energy crises, there is oil in south america, alaska, antarctica, plus what about the fact that if we were in an oil energy crises its only because of our controlling foreign policy. ...

Actually we are, while there are numerous sources of oil, there is increased competition by China. Haven't you noticed the price of gas going up? About 8yrs ago the price fluctuated between $1.00-1.40 depending on what part of the country you were in. While many like to point the finger to Bush, that is not correct because he has little to do with it. The main boogey man for gas now being around $3.00 is that China's population are driving more and the demand for oil is increasing. It is simple laws of supply and demand...markets are opening up that has more than 3x than the US' population (the current #1 consumer of oil) which means there is an increased demand for oil worldwide. However, the supply is remaining about the same.

Therefore:

Increased demand + Static supply = Energy crisis.

You forgot inflation. The price of gasoline actually has very little to do with demand. You need to look more from a Keynesian viewpoint instead of a classical one here and focus on the fact that gasoline supplies are dictated much less by demand than calculated changes from highly educated, powerful people. Inflation is the key to gas prices and not demand. Look at the base prices and convert the amounts and they're actually relatively the same.

[greyface01]

Therefore:

Increased demand + Static supply = Energy crisis.

You forgot inflation. The price of gasoline actually has very little to do with demand. You need to look more from a Keynesian viewpoint instead of a classical one here and focus on the fact that gasoline supplies are dictated much less by demand than calculated changes from highly educated, powerful people. Inflation is the key to gas prices and not demand. Look at the base prices and convert the amounts and they're actually relatively the same.

Inflation is a tax on the American people, for our gross overspending on overseas occupation and policing. The govt is saying now Iraq will be a similar situation to South Korea, permanent residency. Thats part (if not all) of the reason the region hates us anyway. They dont hate us because "we like freedom". With inflation, the Federal Reserve has to print more money (loaned, at interest) to trade for the same amount of goods. The working and lower classes, (which make up most of America, its not a cult) usually suffer the most from inflation. Inflation usually always rises much faster than minimum wages, and also the general standard of living cant keep up with inflation in alot of the country.
..I belive the gap between rich and poor is widening faster, making harder to go from working class to upper class. Im not saying its impossible, but its hard to work full time for low wages, pay bills and go to college (ever rising tuition fees), not to mention if someone has medical problems. I belive soon there will be 2 classes, rich and poor, and the rich will do everything in their power to preserve their ways of life, no matter what the cost. (aaahhhhh!!!! im crazy, im a crazy conspiricy theorists because I belive big corporations are working with big govt, holy shit!!!! fuck!!@!)
VOTE RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!

[Zorth]

At 11/21/07 04:30 AM, nal1200 wrote: I've recently been informed that Ron Paul is running for President in '08.

Some of his obligations as prez are to:

"End the income tax"
"abolish the IRS"
"abolish federal reserve"
"end Iraq war"

I'm not much for politics, but what do you guys think about this?

He will not make it. Abolishing the IRS is not possible from the position of a president. The Legislative branch has a say in everything that the president does. Even if it was possible, it would severely injure the economy.

[Humbucker740]

At 11/26/07 08:29 PM, Zorth wrote: He will not make it. Abolishing the IRS is not possible from the position of a president. The Legislative branch has a say in everything that the president does. Even if it was possible, it would severely injure the economy.

How so? I can understand the federal reserve hurting the economy by being abolished but the IRS would probably have no adverse affects by being abolished.

Abolishing the income tax just means that taxes will be collected in other ways to make up for it, probably in much better ways too.

[Dr-Worm]

At 11/22/07 11:00 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: why ditd you think I voted democrate.

Because the republibarrel candidate was an asshole? :P

Anyways, I don't get what the big deal is about Ron Paul. Cleaning up some of the government institutions is one thing, destroying them is just stupid.

[TheMason]

At 11/26/07 06:50 PM, Humbucker740 wrote:

At 11/26/07 05:18 PM, TheMason wrote:

At 11/22/07 03:59 PM, greyface01 wrote:

You forgot inflation. The price of gasoline actually has very little to do with demand. You need to look more from a Keynesian viewpoint instead of a classical one here and focus on the fact that gasoline supplies are dictated much less by demand than calculated changes from highly educated, powerful people. Inflation is the key to gas prices and not demand. Look at the base prices and convert the amounts and they're actually relatively the same.

There is no doubt that inflation is at play here...very little in IR (intl relations) and IPE (intl political econ) can be reduced down to one specific "key". For the longest time gas prices stayed static instead of adjusting for inflation. When I started driving in 1992 I could get gas for $0.97. In 1999/2000 I could still get gas for about a $1.00. So yeah part of it is an adjustment for inflation.

However, also during this time the Chinese and Indian markets are starting to emerge and combined opens up markets that combined are 6x the US' market. However, oil infrastructure has remained static which means production rates will at best remain constant in the face of increased demand and at worst production will fall due to decay and attrition. So investment in infrastructure is required long term (which is why China in 2006 pledged $200 Billion to modernize Iran's infrastructure). Such investment (partly driven by demand) will also add to the price of oil. Oil is not an infinite or readily available resource, so such a dramatic increase in demand with no corresponding increase in supply will see an even more radical jump in gas prices. While we are not going to face an energy crisis this decade, we are looking at a demand induced crisis in the next two decades if we don't start preparing now.

In sum, it would be folly to ignore inflation...just as it is follow to ignore the problems of demand.