Hiroshima & Nagasaki,worst atrocity

[Takeshima]

Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Children died, Women died, babies died. Yeah i know what you're gonna say, this is WAR (sparta).
but then, you should know that by doing that, the Americans are damn proud of themselves because they developed it AND they are the 1st ones to drop it on a city. No remorse whatsoever. Heck they dont even help to repair the the city, or tend to the ones with radiation. All those help was by Japanese soldiers and doctors

So yeah, Why we surrender, is because Japanese soldiers were sent to those zones to rebuild and rescue instead of killing american soldiers.

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

[fahrenheit]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Maybe the worst atrocity to occur in one day, or event. But no, its not the worst atrocity overall.

but then, you should know that by doing that, the Americans are damn proud of themselves

What? Most Americans disagree with the nuclear bombing, and nuclear bombs in general. And besides, if the Japanese hadnt attacked the US in the first place there would be no bombings.

So yeah, Why we surrender, is because Japanese soldiers were sent to those zones to rebuild and rescue instead of killing american soldiers.

Is that before kamikazis?
Or before the invasion of the phillipines?

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

Two different claims. We won the war with those bombs, they suicide-bombed us which led to us raping their country.

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

I'm sure you see nothing wrong with this statement.

[Takeshima]

At 11/9/07 01:05 AM, fahrenheit wrote:

Maybe the worst atrocity to occur in one day, or event. But no, its not the worst atrocity overall.

Think about it. Nuclear weapons. Weapons of Mass Destruction, the thing that everyone fears. Used. TWICE. Millions. Radiation. not just 2 buildings, 2 cities.

What? Most Americans disagree with the nuclear bombing, and nuclear bombs in general. And besides, if the Japanese hadnt attacked the US in the first place there would be no bombings.

Do you know why the Japanese attacked the USA? Due to Trade Embargos the US imposed on Japan. Since Japan depend on that trade with US, it was left crippled. And the Only way to cope with that loss is to conquer lands for raw materials. The Japanese Army view the American forces at Hawaii as a large threat to their expansion...so.. there

Is that before kamikazis? Or before the invasion of the phillipines?

After the bombs were droppped. Most of the military manpower were transferred to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Thus leaving the Americans to easily win the pacific theatre.

Two different claims. We won the war with those bombs, they suicide-bombed us which led to us raping their country.

Its basically the same. its like "IN YOUR FACE" kinda thing. Both are atrocities.

I'm sure you see nothing wrong with this statement.

yeah, i don't

[Boke]

Right......, so I live in Japan and have been for some time, I've seen Japanese "History" textbooks, its amazing how they can cover one of the most important events in Modern History (WW2) in 2 pages, its also interesting how they skim over things such as Nanking, Okinawa , colonization of Korea,Taiwan, forced prostitution (comfort women),

The atomic bombings were terrible acts, but had they not happened how many japanese would have died in the coming invasion of Honshu? The problem is that the japanese only look at themselves as victims , which is why all japanese students know Hiroshima and Nagasaki but don't know Nanking or that japanese soilders made innocent Okinawan civilians kill themselves.

[Empanado]

I'm not American and I'm no fan of the A-bomb droppings. But I definitely wouldn't say that Americans feel "no remorse at all" for it.
I've seen Americans feel bad about the A-bomb. But I've never seen a Japanese person feel bad about Unit 731. Maybe a half-assed apology, but never actual remorse. Same thing with the Nanking massacre, the Changjiao massacre, the Sook Ching massacre, the Manila massacre, the Korean sex slaves, the torture and killing of POWs (which happened in pretty much all sides during WWII, but nowhere as widespread as in Japan), et cetera.

[fahrenheit]

At 11/9/07 02:06 AM, Takeshima wrote: Think about it.

Mostly quick deaths.
Think about the medieval witch hunts, hundreds of thousands of people were tortured until they confessed they were witches/wizards, then burned alive.

More died in the bombings, but it wasnt the worst atrocity.

The Japanese Army view the American forces at Hawaii as a large threat to their expansion...so.. there

So in order to survive they attack a strong nuetral country, throwing them into a war that the axis (japanese) were already winning?
Obviously whoever led the Japanese army didnt take war 101.

Thus leaving the Americans to easily win the pacific theatre.

Not to mention the bombings were so epic that the Japanese knew they couldnt win, no matter how many people they sent into the war.

[Takeshima]

At 11/9/07 02:21 AM, fahrenheit wrote:

At 11/9/07 02:06 AM, Takeshima wrote: Think about it.

Mostly quick deaths.

Radiation, that lead to deformality, and abnormal births, and death due to excessive radiation.

Think about the medieval witch hunts, hundreds of thousands of people were tortured until they confessed they were witches/wizards, then burned alive.

Dark ages. Wasnt an atrocity. it was superstition.

More died in the bombings, but it wasnt the worst atrocity.

it was the worst that any country had done to another. A weapon of mass destruction used. Two times.

What if the Russians dropped a nuke in London? wont it be the worst atrocity since the A-bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

The Japanese Army view the American forces at Hawaii as a large threat to their expansion...so.. there

So in order to survive they attack a strong nuetral country, throwing them into a war that the axis (japanese) were already winning?

It was necessary. If there was no pearl harbour bombing the US would declare war with Japan anyways.

Obviously whoever led the Japanese army didnt take war 101.

excuse me? 101?

Thus leaving the Americans to easily win the pacific theatre.

Not to mention the bombings were so epic that the Japanese knew they couldnt win, no matter how many people they sent into the war.

Honour was another thing to consider, friend.

[fahrenheit]

At 11/9/07 02:31 AM, Takeshima wrote:

Wow, you're an idiot.

[jitterman]

the bombs are justified. we would have had to kill more people had we invaded. and besides they used anthrax on the chinese during the war with china ten years earlier and i personaly think napalming tokyo was a tad bit worse.

[Empanado]

At 11/9/07 02:31 AM, Takeshima wrote: it was the worst that any country had done to another. A weapon of mass destruction used. Two times.

I'd dare to say that this was worse, and this and this come pretty close.

[Thread-Killer]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Millions sounds like a shitty exaggeration to me. I think the 500,000 German women and children that died in fire bombing over their cities in WW2 was a much worse atrocity. You guys got it easier by comparison.

Then there are the 6,000,000 Jews that died...

And of course, you have the 10,000's of OUR POW's that you barbarically killed and then 10,000's more than you would have killed if we had invaded in a war that YOUR country started.

I am opposed to the bombings, but seriously--fuck Japan.

Heh, and of course you forget the fact an actual invasion would have killed a fuckload lot more civillians.

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

You have obviously have no clue what popular opinion here says about the bombings.

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

My textbook only says that Japan surrendered later.

[Thread-Killer]

At 11/9/07 02:31 AM, Takeshima wrote: It was necessary. If there was no pearl harbour bombing the US would declare war with Japan anyways.

Can you fucking believe this shit?

[Boke]

What about Nanking? 300,000 people being murdered is pretty bad, no? Right, you didn't study that

[BlisteringFreakachuu]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not directly cause the death of millions of people. It did however cause the death of hundreds of thousands The Holocaust caused the death of over eleven million people, and Japanese war crimes in China caused the death of untold amounts of innocent Chinese civilians, these numbering WELL into the millions.

Children died, Women died, babies died. Yeah i know what you're gonna say, this is WAR (sparta).
but then, you should know that by doing that, the Americans are damn proud of themselves because they developed it AND they are the 1st ones to drop it on a city. No remorse whatsoever. Heck they dont even help to repair the the city, or tend to the ones with radiation. All those help was by Japanese soldiers and doctors

I was not aware that you knew three hundred million people. As far as the people I know, the general consensus for those who believe that the Atomic bombings were correct(including myself) was that it was a necessary evil(which was curiously the name of the plane in which most of the photos from the Hiroshima bombing come from)

So yeah, Why we surrender, is because Japanese soldiers were sent to those zones to rebuild and rescue instead of killing american soldiers.

The Japanese could never have defeated the United States, United Kingdom and Soviet Union. Their surrender was the best course of action at the time, and has led to the prosperous society that Japan is to this day.

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

The atomic bombings were a feat and saved millions of lives on both sides. What if the Americans had invaded from the South and the Soviets from the North? On Okinawa alone, almost as many people there died than in both of the atomic bombings COMBINED. And this is a tiny island, I mean, imagine if the mainland was invaded, which it would be, successfully. Millions upon millions of Japanese would die in every way, including suicide bombings. Infact, many were trained how to jump under a tank and detonate themselves. After their defeat, the Soviets and other Allies would have had to seperate Japan, and today you may have had a North Japan and South Japan, with the North's quality of life being an epic failure. If the Soviets had not gone into Japan, the millions of deaths of Japanese and possibly Americans is enough to say that, though the Atomic bombings were wrong, they ended up as the better choice.

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

MY textbook says that the United States had the bomb and dropped them on Japan and Japan gave up, then we went and occupied them. It doesn't try to justify and damn the attack, it's rather neutral.

[Black487]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Children died, Women died, babies died. Yeah i know what you're gonna say, this is WAR (sparta).
but then, you should know that by doing that, the Americans are damn proud of themselves because they developed it AND they are the 1st ones to drop it on a city. No remorse whatsoever. Heck they dont even help to repair the the city, or tend to the ones with radiation. All those help was by Japanese soldiers and doctors

So yeah, Why we surrender, is because Japanese soldiers were sent to those zones to rebuild and rescue instead of killing american soldiers.

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

Maybe you've heard all of this before, but maybe you haven't because if you had you most likely would have understood any the U.S. dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the first place.

It saved American lives, which is the ultimate goal of the U.S. army. To protect the home land and its citizens from threats - foreign and domestic.

American casualties would have hit at least 1 million in an invasion of main Japanese island. Not only were the Japanese soldiers ready to fight to the death, they were training civilians to fight to the death as well. The U.S. would have to sacrifice for every inch of Japan.

What fool would actually decide to invade as opposed to throwing the ball into the Japanese's court.

We warned them what would happen to them (which is more than what they can say about Pearl Harbor) and we gave them the chance to surrender. Twice we warned them and twice we gave them the chance. They chose their own fate, and its their own faults for starting it.

It's unfortunate, but it was the only course of action short of invasion or surrender. Both of which were foolish given the circumstances.

[Black487]

At 11/9/07 02:06 AM, Takeshima wrote:

At 11/9/07 01:05 AM, fahrenheit wrote:

Maybe the worst atrocity to occur in one day, or event. But no, its not the worst atrocity overall.

Think about it. Nuclear weapons. Weapons of Mass Destruction, the thing that everyone fears. Used. TWICE. Millions. Radiation. not just 2 buildings, 2 cities.

What? Most Americans disagree with the nuclear bombing, and nuclear bombs in general. And besides, if the Japanese hadnt attacked the US in the first place there would be no bombings.

Do you know why the Japanese attacked the USA? Due to Trade Embargos the US imposed on Japan. Since Japan depend on that trade with US, it was left crippled. And the Only way to cope with that loss is to conquer lands for raw materials. The Japanese Army view the American forces at Hawaii as a large threat to their expansion...so.. there

And do you know why the U.S. imposed those embargoes on Japan? Remember what Japan was currently doing to China during this time? Or did you overlook that? Oh and as far as you justifying Pearl Harbor, you realize it was a surprise attack right? We were at peace with Japan while Japanese birds were in the air coming to kill our young sailors. There ARE rules to war, and the Japanese broke them day one.

Is that before kamikazis? Or before the invasion of the phillipines?

After the bombs were droppped. Most of the military manpower were transferred to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Thus leaving the Americans to easily win the pacific theatre.

Since the U.S. was trying to protect the states from the Japanese threat, I would view this as a good thing.

Two different claims. We won the war with those bombs, they suicide-bombed us which led to us raping their country.

Its basically the same. its like "IN YOUR FACE" kinda thing. Both are atrocities.

You missed the other guys point all together.

I'm sure you see nothing wrong with this statement.

yeah, i don't

I apologize if my post appears cluttered, I am still trying to get used to the NG quoting and posting system. I underlined everything I wrote in case this turns out sloppy.

[SlithVampir]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Perhaps to a Japanese, it is. But seriously, Stalin blows the doors off that (pardon the expression).

But then, being Japanese yourself, you might have engorged feelings about this. The same way that Americans get all emotional every time Rudy mentions 9/11.

Also, your guys attacked us on Pearl Harbor. For the time, it was the worst hit our country had ever taken. We wanted to make sure you knew how that felt. Einstein PWND you.

[K-RadPie]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: I'm homosexual.

I'm sorry, but you have every single one of your facts wrong. Try again.

[TheMason]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

To say millions is a bit of an exageration. There were firebomb (napalm) raids that cost more lives than Nagasaki.

Compared to what the Nazis did to the Jews and the Japanese did to the Chinese and Koreans...the dropping of the atomic bombs pales in comparison.

[Idiot-Finder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Mas sacre
http://www.tribo.org/nanking/
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory /genocide/nanking.htm
http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njma ssac/nmintro.htm
http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/

I could post more if you want me to.

[therealsylvos]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Worse than the holocaust? or mao zedong "cleansing"? or stalin famines?
get a grip.

Children died, Women died, babies died. Yeah i know what you're gonna say, this is WAR (sparta).
but then, you should know that by doing that, the Americans are damn proud of themselves because they developed it AND they are the 1st ones to drop it on a city. No remorse whatsoever. Heck they dont even help to repair the the city, or tend to the ones with radiation. All those help was by Japanese soldiers and doctors

do you know how much help Japan received from the U.S.A?

So yeah, Why we surrender, is because Japanese soldiers were sent to those zones to rebuild and rescue instead of killing american soldiers.

nooooo...

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

I think youre retarded if you feel anyone boasted of killing all those civilians. however most people, at that for sure, felt it was necessary.

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

wait, and how do you know that yours isn't?

[TheMason]

At 11/9/07 10:08 AM, Idiot-Finder wrote: I could post more if you want me to.

Don't forget the experiments by Japan's Unit 731 in China.

How about the 1911-1945 invasion of Korea where women were enslaved in frontline borthels for the pleasure of Japanese troops? While in Korea Japan did everything they could to erase Korea's culture, one example being making it illegal to write in Korean...

Yeah...poor Japan in relation to Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

[Imperator]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Your book really says that? It's a pretty bad textbook then. I have a problem with most textbooks anyways, but that's another issue.....

I'm actually surprised your book would say that, cause it's a big claim it's making, and a very politically charged one at that. Certainly doesn't belong in academia, that's for sure......

In any case, yeah, it was pretty bad. I saw this fantastic video once that showed radiation victims and stuff like that. It wasn't anti-US, it was really anti-war and very moving.....wish I could remember the name of it.....

It caused a lot more damage that just the initial blast. Maybe not millions like Mason said, but I think it tends to be underplayed. In 2005 Japan registered something like 250,000 hibakusha....

I'm just glad it was enough of a lesson to man that we haven't used them again.....

[Idiot-Finder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://www.ww2pacific.com/unit731.html
http://www.kimsoft.com/kr-japan.htm
http://skycitygallery.com/japan/japan.ht ml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Deat h_March
http://history.sandiego.edu/GEN/st/~ehim chak/death_march.html
http://www.ww2pacific.com/atrocity.html

[ntrokel]

What if the Russians dropped a nuke in London? wont it be the worst atrocity since the A-bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Yes but there is a fundamental difference the Russians would not give the UK a prior warning and a cahnce to surrender. The US warned hirohito approx. a week before they bombed them that they had a weapon of "unimaginable destruction" and that the Japanese should surrender. But Hirohito said no and here we are.

The Japanese Army view the American forces at Hawaii as a large threat to their expansion...so.. there

So in order to survive they attack a strong nuetral country, throwing them into a war that the axis (japanese) were already winning?

It was necessary. If there was no pearl harbour bombing the US would declare war with Japan anyways.

This is abosoulutely incorrect. Before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor isloationisim was the main political ideology of the US. We said its not our problem so lets stay neutral. But When Japan bombed us we became MUCH more interested in the war becuase we had been thrust into it.

Obviously whoever led the Japanese army didnt take war 101.

excuse me? 101?

Basic military theory: DO NOT ATTACK A COUNTRY THAT IS BIGGER THAN YOU IF YOU ARE ALREADY FIGHTING IN ANOHTER WAR!!!! THere was that so hard?

Thus leaving the Americans to easily win the pacific theatre.

Not to mention the bombings were so epic that the Japanese knew they couldnt win, no matter how many people they sent into the war.

Honour was another thing to consider, friend.

Honour? THe Japanese view on honor had been twisted and morphed by Hirohitos government from the ancient Jaoanese samurai figthing spirit written by people like Muzugashi. They took the parts that they needed but discarded parts they thought did not fit the war effort. If the US had invaded the home islands then hundreds of thousands if not millions of Japanese and Americans would have died either in battle or in the mass suicides that the US had seen at Okinawa. So waht would u think the several hundred thousand people who were killed at Nagasaki and Hiroshima or the millions of Japanese and American deaths there would have been in the event of an invasion?

[Oblivia]

At 11/9/07 02:06 AM, Takeshima wrote:

At 11/9/07 01:05 AM, fahrenheit wrote:

Maybe the worst atrocity to occur in one day, or event. But no, its not the worst atrocity overall.

Think about it. Nuclear weapons. Weapons of Mass Destruction, the thing that everyone fears. Used. TWICE. Millions. Radiation. not just 2 buildings, 2 cities.

It was a better choice that both Japan and America agree with. Either that, Operation Olympic would have been used that have resulted in upmost disaster for both sides with a much higher death toll. Not to mention that the Stalinist Soviet Union would have split Japan in half like what happened in Germany.

What? Most Americans disagree with the nuclear bombing, and nuclear bombs in general. And besides, if the Japanese hadnt attacked the US in the first place there would be no bombings.

Do you know why the Japanese attacked the USA? Due to Trade Embargos the US imposed on Japan. Since Japan depend on that trade with US, it was left crippled. And the Only way to cope with that loss is to conquer lands for raw materials. The Japanese Army view the American forces at Hawaii as a large threat to their expansion...so.. there

We stopped trading with them because they were conquering lands, we didn't want any involvement of Japan's agenda.

Is that before kamikazis? Or before the invasion of the phillipines?

After the bombs were droppped. Most of the military manpower were transferred to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Thus leaving the Americans to easily win the pacific theatre.

Two different claims. We won the war with those bombs, they suicide-bombed us which led to us raping their country.

Its basically the same. its like "IN YOUR FACE" kinda thing. Both are atrocities.

I'm sure you see nothing wrong with this statement.

yeah, i don't

[animehater]

Did the Soviets actually have plans on how to split up Japan in a possible invasion? Sounds like a good piece of Alternate Cold War History fiction right there. What would have been it's borders? Would all the division plans happen only after victory proved inevitable?

[Proteas]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Heck they dont even help to repair the the city, or tend to the ones with radiation. All those help was by Japanese soldiers and doctors

Yep, never mind that there were close to 100,000 Allied Troops stationed in Japan after the bombings to help rebuild the country OR that part of Japan's terms of surrender was they wouldn't build up their own army, they just pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and rebuilt their country from the ground up. It's just a coincidence they based a rebuilt Japan and it's constitution on our our own way of life.

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

And the majority of your post wasn't? That's a laugh.

At 11/9/07 02:31 AM, Takeshima wrote: Dark ages. Wasnt an atrocity. it was superstition.

... I am just god smacked at reading this one, man.

it was the worst that any country had done to another. A weapon of mass destruction used. Two times.

And if you weren't to busy with you're bullshit emotial appeals, you would notice that no-one has since dared to use Atom Bombs on another country for any reason.

If there was no pearl harbour bombing the US would declare war with Japan anyways.

Let me guess, oil, right?

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Your textbook is obviously biased. There are plenty of atrocities of similar scale in human history.

Americans are damn proud of themselves because they developed it AND they are the 1st ones to drop it on a city. No remorse whatsoever.

Even the Japanese have admitted that, from the American perspective, it was the right thing to do in the situation. And America/Americans have frequently expressed remorse for the deaths of the victims, even if the individuals who ordered/carried out the bombing did not feel regret for their actions.

Heck they dont even help to repair the the city, or tend to the ones with radiation.

The United States provided Japan with an immense amount of economic, infrastructural, and humanitarian aid after the war. We essentially rebuilt them as a country.

I just can't accept it when an American boast of dropping the bombs. How'd you feel if some Arab boasts about how pathetic the Americans are during 9/11?

We do not boast about this act. It is in fact a source of great shame to many (most?) Americans. However, I think most will acknowledge that it was a necessary evil.

So yeah, whatever your history textbook says, its all propaganda and BS.

And yours is not?

Frankly, Japanese soldiers committed some pretty horrible war crimes during World War II, including the torture and murder of Chinese civilians.

At 11/9/07 02:31 AM, Takeshima wrote: It was necessary. If there was no pearl harbour bombing the US would declare war with Japan anyways.

An indefensible position. The United States was far more concerned with Germany and its aggression towards our allies in Western Europe, and even then was taking a strongly neutral stance. Even if we had felt the need to declare war on Germany, it is unlikely the U.S. would have likewise declared against Japan. We did not give a rat's ass about the Japanese until the bomb was dropped. You cannot prove to me that our President had any intentions against Japan before that incident.

At 11/9/07 03:06 AM, Thread-Killer wrote:

At 11/9/07 12:57 AM, Takeshima wrote: Ok, I just want to clarify this. In my textbook, the atomic bombs dropped on those two cities, which caused millions of lives ( initial blast, radiation) was the worlds MOST horrible atrocity.

Millions sounds like a shitty exaggeration to me. I think the 500,000 German women and children that died in fire bombing over their cities in WW2 was a much worse atrocity. You guys got it easier by comparison.

The estimates I have seen say 140,000 at Hiroshima and 80,000 at Nagasaki, with later casualties numbering in the thousands. To say millions have died from it is a gross and totally inaccurate estimation.

Your own government has chosen not to pursue an apology from the United States.

Now. There are some facts about Hiroshima and Nagasaki that are debatable. It is undeniable that the bombings saved American lives, but whether they saved lives overall can be questioned (and cannot be answered). The appropriateness of the targets, with their large civilian populations, is debatable. And we can debate the morality of nuclear weapons in general until the cows come home.

Your position, however, is fueled by hate and bias, not fact. You claim to know how other people think and feel about a subject without asking them. You claim that the stated intentions of a country were the opposite of their true intentions, without providing any evidence. You choose to blithely ignore the Japanese fault in the situation, and place all blame on the United States. You are a hateful, prejudiced individual, and you give everyone in your nation who has tried to move on and make a positive future out of a negative past a bad name.

[Christopherr]

Hate to burst your bubble, but no textbook in the world says why we really did it.

We did it because the lives lost in those bombings were less than those that would be lost in more fighting. Furthermore, the US did not have to waste all that money on dead soldiers. Sure, it was a brutal tactic, but Hitler was gassing people, Mussolini was just killing people, and Hirohito was, as well. Hirohito's POW camps were in violation of most POW rules set by the Geneva Convention. They would pretty much make up their own rules and punishments for those who violated those rules, however silly they were. Can you explain to me a good reason why the US doesn't horribly mistreat its prisoners of war?

Just try to keep in your head that no nation is righteous. The US isn't all good. In reality, the line between good and evil is blurred.