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At 6/28/01 09:34 PM, MasterG wrote: It's wrong period! I have a duaghter, I was 21 when she came along and didn't think twice about. And she's the greatest.

Fair play to you. Some people can't handle that though. Their babies would end up hated by the mother and they live shitty lives.

At 5/21/03 01:37 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 6/28/01 09:34 PM, MasterG wrote: It's wrong period! I have a duaghter, I was 21 when she came along and didn't think twice about. And she's the greatest.

Fair play to you. Some people can't handle that though. Their babies would end up hated by the mother and they live shitty lives.

That is what I am trying to say. I knew a girl whose mother beat her everyday because the mother blamed her for the father leaving cause she was born. That woman didn’t have an abortion cause her mother wouldn’t let her. There are sick people out there who when they know they won't be good parents should be given an option. I think adoption is great but I personally could not live not knowing what the child I gave birth to would endure from the adopting parents. It is hard giving up your child even if you don’t want it.

Wow, that was epic DUDE:o

Sometimes I wonder how the world would have turned out if I'd been aborted. My mom tells me sometimes (in her fits of rage) that I was a big mistake, and that she never should have had me. It's an intriguing thought, really. Sometimes I wish I could live the "It's a Wonderful Life" episode to see.

That being said, I believe in pro-choice.

"Women's bodies are their own fuckin' business."
-Jay, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back

At 5/22/03 02:39 AM, PreacherJ wrote:

That being said, I believe in pro-choice.

"Women's bodies are their own fuckin' business."
-Jay, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back

I freakin'love those two guys. Kevin Smith is a genius.

I always find it ironic that people who will NEVER HAVE AN ABORTION think they get a say. No one has a right to tell me what to do with my body. End of discussion.

It is a good point, however, that men who don't want a child shouldn't be forced to pay child support. However, they should have used a condom. It's certainly too late to say "oops, I made a mistake" after the fact.

At 5/23/03 03:11 PM, arnamenta wrote: It is a good point, however, that men who don't want a child shouldn't be forced to pay child support. However, they should have used a condom. It's certainly too late to say "oops, I made a mistake" after the fact.

Well, there's always a consequence to every mistake. As a pro-choice member, I believe that whether or not you have an abortion, you should always bring up a child with the best care. Some people can not bring up a child this way, and an accidental pregnancy can add a burden to the parents and pave a shaky road ahead for the newborn.

Adoption can be a good program, but not always; some kids are moved around a lot, which may cause psychological problems to develop in the child.

my mom need not put ME up for adoption, IIIII can take care of myself, well maybe, OH HELL all I would do is eat junk and pop pimples so NEVER MIND
PRO CHOICE!!!

At 5/23/03 03:11 PM, arnamenta wrote: It is a good point, however, that men who don't want a child shouldn't be forced to pay child support. However, they should have used a condom. It's certainly too late to say "oops, I made a mistake" after the fact.

But by the same token though, shouldn't women have to use birth control. Otherwise it's a double standard.

a clump of cellular tissue is not a human. no questions asked. the world is too goddamn overpopulated. please, be pro choice people.

At 5/22/03 02:39 AM, PreacherJ wrote: My mom tells me sometimes (in her fits of rage) that I was a big mistake, and that she never should have had me.

My mom tells me that every day, that is of course after the beatings... Wouldnt want to interfere with the beatings...:-(

At 5/20/03 04:21 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: What if an individual had to recieve an abortion license to have an abortion? For example, a woman gets pregnant, and wants an abortion. She talks to her doctor, who files for the license (assuming the beauracracy is expedient enough). If she has been raped, the child is deformed, or she is incapable of raising a human being, the abortion is approved. If not, she has to bear it.

The only problem with that is that it assigns an agency to decide what is acceptable and what isn't.

If just one religious nut were in that agency, it'd be nul and void. And if many were in it, they could run it into the ground by 'losing' applications, or taking too long to reply.

I'm assuming that it would be a problem. The current system works. it doesn't work the way right-wingers want, but that's too bad. You cannot please everyone.

Besides, it's all about choice. And this idea removes choice from the equation.

I think it's time to introduce a new philosophy to the world, one that everyone can relate to.

Bureaucratic positivism. If a bunch of people form a comittee and come out saying it's ok, well then, it's ok. Most corporations are under heavy influence from Bureaucratic positivists and the government is the biggest hive of them all.

I think I'll write a book.. and make MILLIONS, that is if I can find a way to wade through all the bureacracy involved in publishing a book.

Dr. A

At 5/23/03 11:47 PM, jimsween wrote: But by the same token though, shouldn't women have to use birth control. Otherwise it's a double standard.

Birth control, for some women, can cause serious medical side effects. Even when it's "safe" it can have a big influence on a women's life and effects her body in lots of ways. So no, it's really not a double standard in every case. Certainly, women should demand their partners use condoms. If they both choose not to, they're both responsible.

At 5/23/03 11:49 PM, jimsween wrote:

At 5/22/03 02:39 AM, PreacherJ wrote: My mom tells me sometimes (in her fits of rage) that I was a big mistake, and that she never should have had me.

My mom tells me that every day, that is of course after the beatings... Wouldnt want to interfere with the beatings...:-(

AWW... Poor Jimmy. I know ecatly how you feel, believe me. I picked up a bat one day and changed all that, though... :-(

This is going to be a large post, but one that's worth reading.

I'm ambivalent on this issue. For myself, I could never, EVER abort a child. But I've found it hard to tell others what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies.

I will number my points, so I can keep them straight for myself. If I don't, I'll lose track of myself! *LOL*

1. Before young people should make a choice on where they stand on abortion, they should educate themselves. This is not a personal attack on anyone here, just curiosity. How many of you know what an abortion entails? How it's done? What the injury and survival rate is for the mother, and often times, the aborted baby? How many of you know the details?

2. The heart begins to beat around 25 days from conception, and blood-type is determined. At 10 weeks, a fetus has 10 fingers, 10 toes, fingernails, can turn his head, and frown. At 11 weeks, the baby has skeletal structure, fingerprints, and nerves. At 12 weeks, a baby inside the womb has everything needed to -feel- things (nerves, spinal column, thalamus), including pain. At 17-18 weeks, the baby can dream (REM sleep). I give this information because so many people don't know this...and therefore still consider the baby a 'clump of cells'.

3. As before mentioned, at 12 weeks, the baby can feel pain. 12 weeks is also the earliest many abortion clinics can and will perform evacuation, because all limbs can be accounted for. That is necessary because during the procedure, the fetus is torn apart and vacuumed out, and all body parts need to be accounted for before the abortion is complete. Any part left inside the womb can cause a deadly infection.

4. My opinion on partial-birth abortions and saline-injection abortions is that they should be outlawed completely. Partial birth abortions involve pulling the baby out of the birth canal completely, vacuuming the brain out of the skull so the head can be colapsed and pulled out more easily. These are done usually in the late second to third trimester. Saline injection abortions involve inserting a long needle into the amniotic sac and mixing a very strong saline mixture with the amniotic fluid, causing the fetus to be burned, to convulse, and have the mother go into natural labor, often to give birth to a dead baby. Sometimes, however, the baby is born still barely alive but untreatable. It's left to die.

5. After knowing all of this, the only thing keeping me from beign completely and utterly pro-life is the knowledge that if abortion was once again made illegal, women would return to having back-alley abortions. Much like prohibition, it wouldn't stop the action, it would merely make it more dangerous. I'll never pass personal judgement on women who decide to abort, but I cannot agree with it.

6. There's millions of couples waiting to adopt children. Sadly, many young women (and older women) aren't given alternatives to abortion, and sometimes even turn to abortion as a form of birth control, rather than a last resort.

7. Last, but not least, everyone should read into and research not only the physical but psychological damage that occurs after an abortion. There are instances that abortion may be the only alternative (rape, incest, endangerment to the mother's life), but the fact remains that over 80% of abortions recorded are sited as being done for 'social reasons'. Abortion is an invasive, painful, horrific procedure, and while I can't say I'd like to see America take a step backward in the realm of personal rights, I cant' help but think that if we were all a little more educated, we'd make wiser choices with our bodies.

8. I lied. One more point. It takes two people to make a baby, and I personally would like to think that the fathers of these children are at least -sometimes- consulted before it's terminated. That's just...courtesy.

I realize mine isn't a popular opinion. But hey...I can't ignore the facts.

Abortionists are killers, that's all there is to it.

At 5/26/03 06:05 PM, MindThrasher wrote: Abortionists are killers, that's all there is to it.

Does that mean that any woman with a miscarrige is a murderer or manslaughterer?

At 5/24/03 04:07 PM, arnamenta wrote:

At 5/23/03 11:47 PM, jimsween wrote: But by the same token though, shouldn't women have to use birth control. Otherwise it's a double standard.

Birth control, for some women, can cause serious medical side effects. Even when it's "safe" it can have a big influence on a women's life and effects her body in lots of ways. So no, it's really not a double standard in every case. Certainly, women should demand their partners use condoms. If they both choose not to, they're both responsible.

They can use a diaphram thoug, and many men are allergic to latex. It's funny how there are so many birth controls for women but only 1 for men.

At 5/26/03 06:15 PM, bumcheekycity wrote:

At 5/26/03 06:05 PM, MindThrasher wrote: Abortionists are killers, that's all there is to it.

Does that mean that any woman with a miscarrige is a murderer or manslaughterer?

I'm not sure I understand where this comes from. Abortion is very intentional. Miscarriage means that the pregnancy terminated itself for some reason, and not by fault of the mother. I'm talking about the rule, here, not the exception. There have been cases where women have induced miscarriage through injesting certain herbs or inflicting abuse on their abdomens. But a true, honest miscarriage?

That's not even in the same league, and I think that's pretty obvious. A woman can't help if she bleeds out when she's carrying a baby. Not even doctors can stop it.

At 5/26/03 09:24 PM, jimsween wrote: They can use a diaphram thoug, and many men are allergic to latex. It's funny how there are so many birth controls for women but only 1 for men.

Two. A vasectomy and the condom. There are so few contraceptives for men because there is only one thing a condom needs to do - stop the sperm entering the woman. The condom does that very well and most men are happy using it. They can only improve what we've got.

For women, on the other hand, the contraceptive can stop the sperm entering the vagina, stop the egg from exiting the fallopian tube, stop the egg exiting the ovary at all, stop the egg embedding itself on the lining of the wonb and loads more.

But we don't need a million different types of contraception. One that works (the condom) suits us men just fine.

legalize it

Well, there are man sides to this issue and many opinions. One, some consider it murder because it is taking a life.It's also like taking any kid and killing him/her. In my opinion, It is their choice, but it is a bad thing because some people try to have babies and can't are sad and other people take advantage of it an have an abortion. They could atleast take it to an orphanage so it can go to a rightful family. Rape is another thing, rape is a bad thing and if the victim has a baby there isn't really a purpose because there was no love involved in the whole rape thing. But still it is murder and I think the orphanage thing would work out fine or an adoption agency.

At 6/21/01 11:52 PM, Anarchon wrote:

countries where abortion is legal there are less deaths caused by abortion- both concerning the child and mother. consider that before u debate abortion

He he he he.. no one realized this yet? I thought it was great!

Less deaths of children by abortion... *snicker* Not only do I think he's on the wrong page, someone gave him the wrong book!

At 6/21/01 11:48 AM, GameboyCC wrote: Do you think abortion should be legal? Do you...? I do...

Alllright, I'll thrown my hat in the ring.

Yes, abortion should be legal.
But there's other things I believe, too. Aside from the obvious that the people should have discussed this first, there's always the blame game!

IF a guy doesn't want anything to do with a child then he and the mother should have to both sign papers stating so. The mother feels this strongly about killing an innocent clump of bio-crap? Guess she should have kept her legs crossed! I think this about both, actually. If the woman doesn't want it but the guy still does tough luck to the guy! If he's against killing it he should have just masturbated! The woman gets the upper hand here. If she wants it she can have it. By herself, no help. But if the guy wants it it's his loss!

A baby can feel pain after 12 months. That's great. And for how long? Seriously now, how long? Mebbe twenty seconds? Thirty? How long can something that can't even support itself yet live when its missing parts of its body? I'm all in favor of abortion. And I pretty much believe that until its head pops out its hunting season on the little cave dwellers.

Hell, you could pretty much kill a three year old and most don't have any clue about death. My grandfathers wake was today. My cousin, who I have no idea how old he is but the kids got more energy than the entire USPS team put together, asked if he could "take pictures of grampa and take them into show and tell"!!! Kids are great, they really are..

I don't know what that really has to do with anything...

there is nothing wrong with leaving the baby at the hands of a good orphanage. this way the mothers acheives her aim of not needing to look after the baby for whatever reasons she has and the baby doesn't need to die. If she wants, she could visit the baby at a later stage and could decide to look after it.

At 6/25/01 10:45 AM, KaneOfNod wrote: An egg (ova), nor a sperm, is not a life on its own; a fetus is.

A rock is not a form of life on its own,
all of the aforementioned are since they move around or divide themselves or grow.

Now really what is the difference between the morning-after pill, a condom, or an abortion? The way I see it's one way or another of not having a child to feed. Or having to squeeze one out of your body if you're female.

Besides, who are we to debate the personal choices and dillemas of women we've never even met. Let them decide what they want to do with their body.

At 5/29/03 10:31 AM, nailbomb wrote: Now really what is the difference between the morning-after pill, a condom, or an abortion? The way I see it's one way or another of not having a child to feed. Or having to squeeze one out of your body if you're female.

Besides, who are we to debate the personal choices and dillemas of women we've never even met. Let them decide what they want to do with their body.

well for starters, a condom doesn't kill the embrio inside the uterus does it!!!
the pill doesn't because the child wont hav even been consived by the morning after...well in most cases

everything about aborsions is cercumstancial, you cant punish a girl, say, who has been raped and become pregnant, or a young girl who was taken advantage of by her older boyfriend, the best thing that the government could do wiht aborsions is to take each case to a court, so that a joury can decide whether there is any good reason to let/not let the girl/women hav the aborsion, but then there is the economic side of things, and as usual the government wont pay for anything like that!