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Anyone saying that Game Maker is purely drag and drop are either clueless or ignorant. GML is a good starting language - it has a lot of similarities to javascript, actionscript or PHP. Sometimes it doesn't have to be all about the GUI - you can make good game engines in GM with just code.

They're never going to be as fast as C++ driven games. However, for those starting out it is a very decent program. I have used it to produce a few games (some of which you can still download).

You can't make high-end games in game maker or flash
The reasons why this is not done should be fairly obvious

Both have constraints, there are things you can do, and things you can't do.
Flash and Game maker are engines
you could say it's an engine in the same fashion Unreal and Doom are engines,
but those engines offer so infinately much more and are less "generic", and make more modern games possible. There are no one that are interrested in paying money for dress-up hentai games or a game where you click your mouse button around and make a dude go pay for hookers or whatever kids make in game maker and flash these days. In a real modern _game-engine_ you have also the possibility to alter the source code of the game, which you do not in flash or game maker, obviously making it uninterresting for game development. It's not always just the idea for a game people are interrested, people are more interrested in playability, story, graphics and possibilites. All these options are endless if you develop with a real engine, instead of using something that's more a curiosity than an actual commercial development platform. There are reasons why game engines cost $20 000 and flash cost $100.
If flash or game maker was actually good at making commercial-grade games, newgrounds.com wouldn't be free, it would be a market rather than an exchange of ideas as it is now.
Afaik the only commercial game developed in flash (or is it?) is alien hominid, and even that is just for xbox live arcade. Notice the "arcade"-part, as this is what flash is best at. Games where you click around and something happens.

If you see the Unreal editor, you will see that it offers infinately more options than flash does, even though it's an FPS-engine, there have been developed platform-games, 3rd person and even strategy games using that engine. Of course developing on such modern platforms require alot more... talent than say game maker, click&play and flash. And yes, I'd put flash in the same category as click&play and game maker. Flash is a toy/promotional tool, game maker is just a toy, and so is click&play

So no, game maker is not meant for serious game development, I doubt it will ever be.
If commercial games could be made using such a tool, it would've cost alot more, and more (any) games would be made using it, as it would save tons of time and money
(even though those hardcore C++ coders you usually find in game development would complain alot)

Just look at the overall quality of flash based games... they suck hard
It's all dress up this, watch britney eat that, tentacles here, some stupid manga there
and game-maker is drive this car, click that button, move that spaceship

And I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would pay for any of that crap
if they do, they might be mentally handicapped and shouldn't be made fun of

At 11/20/07 06:21 AM, CronoMan wrote: Flash and Game maker are engines
you could say it's an engine in the same fashion Unreal and Doom are engines,

I don't think Flash is a game engine, and there are definitely some commercial-quality Game Maker games out there.

There are reasons why game engines cost $20 000 and flash cost $100.

Those prices are all wrong.

Afaik the only commercial game developed in flash (or is it?) is alien hominid, and even that is just for xbox live arcade. Notice the "arcade"-part, as this is what flash is best at. Games where you click around and something happens.

Alien Hominid was also released for Playstation 2. It's definitely commercial quality.

Of course developing on such modern platforms require alot more... talent than say game maker, click&play and flash.

So you're saying that writing something like Seiklus takes more skill than screwing around with an engine?

So no, game maker is not meant for serious game development, I doubt it will ever be.

Why shouldn't it be? As I said before, there are definitely some commercial-quality games out there, or games that have the potential to be commercial-quality but use copyrighted material...

Examples.

Just look at the overall quality of flash based games... they suck hard

Only because the vast majority of the game makers on Newgrounds are either too unskilled or too unmotivated to make anything really good.

It's all dress up this, watch britney eat that, tentacles here, some stupid manga there

Not all.

and game-maker is drive this car, click that button, move that spaceship

Not all. Only the very noobish ones, actually, and there aren't that many of those that I've seen.

YoYoGames.com partnered with Game Maker's creator, Mark Overmars.
The site yoyogames.com is now very good, and tons of great games have been created.

Although your out of luck, your 100,000+ members too late for a game maker forum, forums.gamemaker.nl

I've also noticed some of you claim that Flash is better than game maker.

GAme Maker is extremely advanced, you probably never even installed it, you are just underestimating it's power because of it's names.Game Maker is responsible for a number of very popular MMORPG's, heck, even Maplestory can be created with Game Maker given you have the knowledge.

Game Maker has the power to connect to C++, PHP, and tons of other coding languages, and supports it's own coding language called GML. Don't assume things randomly, please think before you post. Game Maker is easily more powerful than flash, and by all means has pixel-perfect collision checking.

503 mb helll noo i anit taking dat n its .ex. not .swf
ill take it but i anit

At 11/20/07 10:26 PM, klaqdes wrote: 503 mb helll noo i anit taking dat n its .ex. not .swf
ull take it but i anit

fixed

At 11/20/07 10:10 PM, LordZeebmork wrote:

At 11/20/07 06:21 AM, CronoMan wrote: Flash and Game maker are engines
you could say it's an engine in the same fashion Unreal and Doom are engines,

I don't think Flash is a game engine, and there are definitely some commercial-quality Game Maker games out there.

There are reasons why game engines cost $20 000 and flash cost $100.

Those prices are all wrong.

you're right, 1 license for Unreal engine only cost $7999
though this is for one developer, (so 3 developers would cost $23997, which is not unreasonable)
and flash cost $699. Though flash is mostly "single-player" so you won't actually need more than one license to create "a game" since there are no ways of really co-operating

Afaik the only commercial game developed in flash (or is it?) is alien hominid, and even that is just for xbox live arcade. Notice the "arcade"-part, as this is what flash is best at. Games where you click around and something happens.

Alien Hominid was also released for Playstation 2. It's definitely commercial quality.

It's an arcade game, just as every other game you've linked to. These are hardly "commercial quality", few would buy these because they are so awkwardly oldschool

Of course developing on such modern platforms require alot more... talent than say game maker, click&play and flash.

So you're saying that writing something like Seiklus takes more skill than screwing around with an engine?

I'm saying that in every case creating a game in Unreal, Doom or Quake engine requires a lot more skill and talent than screwing around with game maker, flash or click&play. I don't know how you managed to reverse that sentence in your head ;)

So no, game maker is not meant for serious game development, I doubt it will ever be.

Why shouldn't it be? As I said before, there are definitely some commercial-quality games out there, or games that have the potential to be commercial-quality but use copyrighted material...

Examples.

No there aren't
Take a look at this image
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/
2005/018/925826_20050119_screen002.jpg
and then you look at this one
http://www.dignews.com/admin/screenshoot /gears_of_war_14.jpg
and to compare to another sidescroller
http://www.gamereality.org/Kuvat/dukenuk emmp/dnmp_00464.jpg

Let's compare alien hominid to a game from a long long time ago :
http://www.doupe.cz/Files/Obrazky/art/d/
duke1/duke1.jpg

Is Alien Hominid in any way more advanced than Duke Nukem 1? In graphics yes, anything else..?
It's the most primitive platform and by far the easiest one to make, and the one with the least replayability. You play it once, your done, you're bored

Just look at the overall quality of flash based games... they suck hard

Only because the vast majority of the game makers on Newgrounds are either too unskilled or too unmotivated to make anything really good.

I don't believe that of 100000000 submissions, 0% could be "up-to-standards" if it was possible
but truth is; none of the games submitted to newgrounds are "entertaining". Actually they suck pretty hard. At least I haven't played one I found amusing in any way. But i've stopped viewing the movies and playing the games, because the level of skill presented on newgrounds is hilarious.
That so few of these people think to themselves "damn, I suck, I shouldn't upload this, it's rubbish"
I think the art-forum is pretty funny, so many ridicolously disillusioned people with 100% lack of skill and talent, I sometimes don't know if I should laugh or cry

It's all dress up this, watch britney eat that, tentacles here, some stupid manga there

Not all.

Heh

and game-maker is drive this car, click that button, move that spaceship

Not all. Only the very noobish ones, actually, and there aren't that many of those that I've seen.

Heh, yeah they are. Game-maker is for one type of game, and this happens to be one of the most primitive available. And your hands are tied on you back.

None of those games you listed said "high quality" to me, they might be "high quality" compared to other game-maker games, but utter crap compared to commercial games.

You seriously don't see the extreme difference of quality? the different levels of gameplay? graphics? design? ingenuity? technology?

Seriously I'm stomped, I can't understand how it is possible to believe that such a shortcut for excellent games like flash and game maker are the true key to real entertainment? How come no serious commercial games have been created using them, when obviously it is possible to create high-end games in them? It would be so much cheaper! And time-saving! And NOBODY WOULD NOTICE :)
You get the point?

And about alien hominid : it sucks. It's a game for kids. And kids are retarded, they have low expectancy. It's just an alien jumping around shooting fbi-dudes and an occasional unexplainable boss. It's how games were made in the 80's and early 90's.
And I would _never ever_ pay for a game I play for 10 minutes and never again

i lol @ gamemaker go buy flash tightass

Game Maker is possibly the worst attempt at anything. Ever.

CronoMan - what's the point in comparing a game made by a commercial studio to one on newgrounds? Did Unreal come out of one person's spare time? It's like comparing an early black and white TV to a top of the range plasma.

I'd also say that flash gaming more suits the 'casual gamer' - i.e. the one that doesn't want the latest bleeding edge PC, but is more content to play Sudoku or Tetris on the Internet.

At 11/21/07 03:31 AM, CronoMan wrote: And about alien hominid : it sucks. It's just an alien jumping around shooting fbi-dudes and an occasional unexplainable boss.

Forgot to mention: You could say the same about Unreal - you're just a guy in an arena shooting stuff, inexplicably like.

At 11/21/07 05:47 AM, different wrote: CronoMan - what's the point in comparing a game made by a commercial studio to one on newgrounds? Did Unreal come out of one person's spare time? It's like comparing an early black and white TV to a top of the range plasma.

I'd also say that flash gaming more suits the 'casual gamer' - i.e. the one that doesn't want the latest bleeding edge PC, but is more content to play Sudoku or Tetris on the Internet.

You see, that's excactly my point. Sudoku and Tetris aren't "commercial grade" games

And if you check out some indie games, developed using real tools and real talent; they have lots more to offer than any game-maker or flash-enthusiast. Alot of them are actually fun. Alot of these are developed by a single person on his spare time.
Check out Cube which is a type of Build-engine in 3D, made by one single person on his spare time
and there are lots more examples, and alot of them are absolutely free.

And I wouldn't call anyone playing solitaire, sudoku and tetris "gamers" at all, they're more like extremely bored people with a computer

Anyway, seriously... Flash and game maker are toys. Game maker is a game in itself, you can probably just pick it off the shelves anywhere where they only sell games, distinctively putting it in the "entertainment" category, not "development"

Flash has some more uses, but mostly promotional.. like advertisements and that sort of thing

At 11/21/07 06:42 AM, blackvector wrote:

At 11/21/07 03:31 AM, CronoMan wrote: you're right, 1 license for Unreal engine only cost $7999

I hope you are talking about UE1... Considering UE3 licenses are $1.5 million.

You're right too :P I took a second look, and the pricing I was watching was for UE 2 (2.5?) runtime without source code (source code comes to $5000 extra per organization). I was unable to find the exact licensing cost of U3, since it seems like it varies slightly depending on who's buying, what they're selling and what's the target group of people

Tetris not a commercial game? It was everywhere back in it's day - every computer, the gameboy... it's so popular there's new spinoffs of it every few months :-)

It's like Pac Man. Now, who hasn't heard of Pac Man? Everyone knows that little pill popping dude with a skin disorder. It's a classic game, but it is very easy to emulate in 'lesser' development environments such as GM and Flash. I think it's commercial appeal is greater than that of perhaps any of the games released this year - except Halo 3, maybe.

At 11/21/07 08:40 AM, different wrote: I think it's commercial appeal is greater than that of perhaps any of the games released this year - except Halo 3, maybe.

commercial appeal of the time, yes :P

There are alot of crappy games being relased constantly, like more or less anything from electronic arts (damn those people have seriously raped the gaming industry) but most of them appeal more to "modern man" than tetris, pac man, digdug, digger, tapper, congo bongo, zone 66, stellar 7, kings quest, space quest, legends of kyrandia, lands of lore, dune 2, duke nukem, zool, commander keen, wolfenstein 3d, leisure suit larry, snarf, syndicate, ski or die, california games, ski (win 3.1), haloween harry, pango, xenon 2, asteroids, piranha, descent, take no prisoners, tyrian etc etc - all of these were extremely popular "in their time" but if you were to try any of them today, you would most likely get bored to death (with the exception of tyrian, because it's really really really awesome and I still play it)

I remember sitting on my 8088 playing congo bongo and tapper, which were the first games I ever played I think... I thought it was great fun, but now they're just stupid.

If Pac Man had no commercial appeal today, it would not have so many clones and remakes of it. A game does not have to be excessively complex to be great.

For example, the first Crash Bandicoot was pretty much one of the best platformers for the original Playstation - in it's simple and addictive gameplay. Today's Crash has lost a lot of what made it good, in spite of better technology (the fact that Naughty Dog has stopped development is a testament to this).

It's why people prefer the original C&C than Tiberian Wars, for example.

I still love playing Lemmings in DosBox - it's still not stupid.

At 11/21/07 01:56 PM, different wrote: If Pac Man had no commercial appeal today, it would not have so many clones and remakes of it. A game does not have to be excessively complex to be great.

Well, the clones didn't sell that good did they.. They were merely some games included in MAXI MEGA PACK TURBO 200 GAMES IN ONE cartridges for gameboy and snes...
Ms. Pacman was just...horrible
And the one where you were the pac-dude raking through a forest... whatsitsname

The funny thing about pacman (and mario) is that its pretty obvious that the creators must have been licking acid at the time they came up with that extremely surrealistic idea (and mario where everything is alive, the hills have eyes, he eats a mushroom and becomes larger etc.) but the people creating those "spin-offs" don't get it, so they don't actually go in the same direction, since they usually aren't influenced when creating that utterly fucked up shit, so they'll use the basic idea, and add stuff that has absolutely no relevance to the original idea, but still keeps the same "theme", like that stupid froghorse yoshi

I'm not saying that shigfasd miaymoto or whatshisname was high when doing the creative thinking
but I sure am thinking it out loudly

For example, the first Crash Bandicoot was pretty much one of the best platformers for the original Playstation - in it's simple and addictive gameplay. Today's Crash has lost a lot of what made it good, in spite of better technology (the fact that Naughty Dog has stopped development is a testament to this).

I've never tried any of those games, since I only bought playstation 1 for one purpose; tekken 3. That was the only game I had.

It's why people prefer the original C&C than Tiberian Wars, for example.

Well, obviously... Westwood is EA now, and they only produce crap. Westwood has only delivered crap since they were bought by ea, right after they released red alert 1 which was meant to be a little "while you wait for tiberian sun", which turned out to be one of the stupidest game ever created by man, thanks to ea totally scrapping the project and starting over without any consideration to the original concepts of tiberian sun, those stupid fucking assholes

I still love playing Lemmings in DosBox - it's still not stupid.

yes it is :P When I went to college on my bachelor in cs, I played through all of the commander keen's, I still thought it was stupid. entertaining, but stupid. I wouldn't pay for commander keen today

- just like I wouldn't pay for an arcade-style "minigame" made in gm or flash, which bears an awful lot of similarities with the old classics, because they're just as primitive

It's useless discussing something that is totally subjective... you don't like Lemmings, but I do. We're both right. End of.

At 11/21/07 02:50 PM, different wrote: It's useless discussing something that is totally subjective... you don't like Lemmings, but I do. We're both right. End of.

okokok, take this for example... you create...
Lemmings 5 (if we count lemmings 3d as #4)
except it's not lemmings 5, it's lemmings 1. Nobody has ever heard about lemmings before, this is the first one. The graphics is slightly better, but you do the same thing; prevent those gray greenhaired jerks from reaching their inevitable death

Approximate the earnings and popularity, given proper marketing (and obviously absolutely no market research, since if they did that nobody would ever put any money into that game because it wouldn't be "pop") - keep in mind even though you like lemmings, that doesn't make it popular

You see, I've learnt something about the average person; they don't know squat about video games, that's why there is so many fps-games released to consoles, that's how there can be 4 call of duty + 2 medal of honor, that's how there is a red alert 2 and that's why there is a final fantasy 10 2, that's why there are 5 or 6 tekken games, that's why there is a super street fighter 5 turbo, that's why there is a battlefield 2, that's why there is 10 million C&C games etc etc. Even though all the sequals have stopped and alot of these games have nothing to offer compared to more original older games, that's not what people are interrested in.

Still, lemmings isn't really that entertaining, it's like theme hospital; fun for about 15 minutes then it gets really really really lame

but like what you want, I'm not trying to discuss your taste, just merely pointing out that you might not be "the average voter" when it comes to video games, keep that in mind when you think about what games have "commercial value" and which don't... what you would think people would expect from a game they pay $50 for, today etc.

At 11/21/07 03:46 PM, CronoMan wrote: Still, lemmings isn't really that entertaining, it's like theme hospital; fun for about 15 minutes then it gets really really really lame

Sim games are still popular. They may not be entertaining for you. ;-)

but like what you want, I'm not trying to discuss your taste, just merely pointing out that you might not be "the average voter" when it comes to video games, keep that in mind when you think about what games have "commercial value" and which don't... what you would think people would expect from a game they pay $50 for, today etc.

I don't fit the bill of a hardcore fps gamer - yes. Based on my experience I know a lot of people who still dig Lemmings, including myself. The 'classic' games are no longer worth $50... imagine in 50 years or so when VR is all the rage, and kids are emulating Half Life for free on the net.... :-)

At 11/21/07 03:31 AM, CronoMan wrote: you won't actually need more than one license to create "a game" since there are no ways of really co-operating

There are ways of cooperating with Flash, just like there are ways of cooperating with basically every other game creation thing.

Afaik the only commercial game developed in flash (or is it?) is alien hominid, and even that is just for xbox live arcade. Notice the "arcade"-part, as this is what flash is best at. Games where you click around and something happens.

Alien Hominid was also released for Playstation 2. It's definitely commercial quality.

It's an arcade game, just as every other game you've linked to. These are hardly "commercial quality", few would buy these because they are so awkwardly oldschool

So you're saying that you think Alien Hominid didn't sell? It did. I still see copies of it on the shelves of EB Games on a regular basis. New, not used.

So you're saying that writing something like Seiklus takes more skill than screwing around with an engine?

I'm saying that in every case creating a game in Unreal, Doom or Quake engine requires a lot more skill and talent than screwing around with game maker, flash or click&play. I don't know how you managed to reverse that sentence in your head ;)

Damn. I meant to say "less skill" there. That's why I guess I shouldn't debate when I'm tired.

Is Alien Hominid in any way more advanced than Duke Nukem 1? In graphics yes, anything else..?
It's the most primitive platform and by far the easiest one to make, and the one with the least replayability. You play it once, your done, you're bored

By the same argument, are any of those shitty FPS games the game industry shits out that much different from, say, Doom?

I don't believe that of 100000000 submissions, 0% could be "up-to-standards" if it was possible
but truth is; none of the games submitted to newgrounds are "entertaining". Actually they suck pretty hard.

Fancy Pants Adventures? The Classroom?

At least I haven't played one I found amusing in any way. But i've stopped viewing the movies and playing the games, because the level of skill presented on newgrounds is hilarious.

Well then, that explains it.

That so few of these people think to themselves "damn, I suck, I shouldn't upload this, it's rubbish"

I know a lot of people hate my stuff, but I put it here because I like it. I think it works the same way for most people with flashes on here.

I think the art-forum is pretty funny, so many ridicolously disillusioned people with 100% lack of skill and talent, I sometimes don't know if I should laugh or cry

I think a lot of them just don't have a tablet.

and game-maker is drive this car, click that button, move that spaceship

Not all. Only the very noobish ones, actually, and there aren't that many of those that I've seen.

Heh, yeah they are. Game-maker is for one type of game, and this happens to be one of the most primitive available. And your hands are tied on you back.

Bullshit. I think that platform games are actually the most common kind of Game Maker games.

None of those games you listed said "high quality" to me, they might be "high quality" compared to other game-maker games, but utter crap compared to commercial games.

You seriously don't see the extreme difference of quality? the different levels of gameplay? graphics? design? ingenuity? technology?

Yeah, I noticed that most new games are complete and utter shit compared to almost anything by PG Games, who one who didn't know better could argue is one of the worst Game Maker game developers out there. (I, however, know better. The Johnny series is a fucking work of art.)

Seriously I'm stomped, I can't understand how it is possible to believe that such a shortcut for excellent games like flash and game maker are the true key to real entertainment? How come no serious commercial games have been created using them, when obviously it is possible to create high-end games in them? It would be so much cheaper! And time-saving! And NOBODY WOULD NOTICE :)
You get the point?

Compare Seiklus, flapflapflap, or basically any other good Game Maker game with Metroid Fusion.

You get the point?

(I hated Metroid Fusion.)

It's how games were made in the 80's and early 90's.

Yeah, they were a lot better back then than they are now. Compare Arctic Adventure with any new PC game.

And I would _never ever_ pay for a game I play for 10 minutes and never again

Neither would I. That's why I don't waste my money on any of those shitty modern games.

At 11/21/07 08:01 PM, LordZeebmork wrote: There are ways of cooperating with Flash, just like there are ways of cooperating with basically every other game creation thing.

copy - paste?

So you're saying that you think Alien Hominid didn't sell? It did. I still see copies of it on the shelves of EB Games on a regular basis. New, not used.

of course it sold, but compared to unreal tournament, half-life, call of duty, diablo, f.e.a.r, etc etc it was nothing

Damn. I meant to say "less skill" there. That's why I guess I shouldn't debate when I'm tired.

You still can't in all seriousness say that creating a game in game maker takes more or equal the amount of skill and talent

By the same argument, are any of those shitty FPS games the game industry shits out that much different from, say, Doom?

Yes they are. They provide new gameplay

Fancy Pants Adventures? The Classroom?

I don't know those games, but I've played through most of what was supposed to be "best" and they're crap

Well then, that explains it.

no it doesn't ;)

I know a lot of people hate my stuff, but I put it here because I like it. I think it works the same way for most people with flashes on here.

That you like it doesn't make it great ;)

I think a lot of them just don't have a tablet.

Have you looked in that forum? They need miracles, not a tablet
I'm no artist, but I can draw alot better than that using MSPaint

Bullshit. I think that platform games are actually the most common kind of Game Maker games.

And you don't think that has anything to do with the simplicity of making one?
I made on in VB6 once, it was pretty easy but then I had to do everything myself

Yeah, I noticed that most new games are complete and utter shit compared to almost anything by PG Games, who one who didn't know better could argue is one of the worst Game Maker game developers out there. (I, however, know better. The Johnny series is a fucking work of art.)

hmmm

Compare Seiklus, flapflapflap, or basically any other good Game Maker game with Metroid Fusion.

You get the point?

(I hated Metroid Fusion.)

Metroid is a hyped game for kids playing in their parent's cellar

It's how games were made in the 80's and early 90's.

Yeah, they were a lot better back then than they are now. Compare Arctic Adventure with any new PC game.

Yes, there are alot of crappy games released today, but as I've said earlier, they at least have a high standard... most of them anyway

Neither would I. That's why I don't waste my money on any of those shitty modern games.

Obviously you haven't played UT3, Gears Of War, Battle For Middle Earth 2, Hellgate London etc.
which all have great replayability.. except perhaps gears of war which I only played through once, I've played it once online on xbox360 but only once because consoles aren't meant for fps-games, so it's impossible to do anything but chainsaw the shit out of people

I like alot of the new games, even though I know I enjoyed games alot more when I was younger, but that's probably because I had lower expectations back then, and alot higher now.
I miss Unreal 1 and Deus Ex, I wish there would be more games like them, those two are the best games I've ever played

At 11/22/07 07:00 AM, CronoMan wrote:

At 11/21/07 08:01 PM, LordZeebmork wrote: There are ways of cooperating with Flash, just like there are ways of cooperating with basically every other game creation thing.

copy - paste?

Real methods.

So you're saying that you think Alien Hominid didn't sell? It did. I still see copies of it on the shelves of EB Games on a regular basis. New, not used.

of course it sold, but compared to unreal tournament, half-life, call of duty, diablo, f.e.a.r, etc etc it was nothing

Probably because all of those games were ultra-commercialized shit.

Damn. I meant to say "less skill" there. That's why I guess I shouldn't debate when I'm tired.

You still can't in all seriousness say that creating a game in game maker takes more or equal the amount of skill and talent

So you're saying that just modifying the graphics, levels and sounds in a premade engine takes more kill than coding an entire game, even in Game Maker?

By the same argument, are any of those shitty FPS games the game industry shits out that much different from, say, Doom?

Yes they are. They provide new gameplay

Not really.

Fancy Pants Adventures? The Classroom?

I don't know those games, but I've played through most of what was supposed to be "best" and they're crap

Fancy Pants Adventures, The Classroom

I know a lot of people hate my stuff, but I put it here because I like it. I think it works the same way for most people with flashes on here.

That you like it doesn't make it great ;)

So? I like it, so I put it here. I don't care what other people think about it.

I'm no artist, but I can draw alot better than that using MSPaint

Then do it.

Bullshit. I think that platform games are actually the most common kind of Game Maker games.

And you don't think that has anything to do with the simplicity of making one?
I made on in VB6 once, it was pretty easy but then I had to do everything myself

Of course it has sometihng to do with the simplicity of making one, but don't forget that it's not easy to make a good one.

Metroid is a hyped game for kids playing in their parent's cellar

Just like almost every other Nintendo game. And most other modern games also.

Yes, there are alot of crappy games released today, but as I've said earlier, they at least have a high standard... most of them anyway

Contradiction much?

At 11/22/07 08:20 PM, LordZeebmork wrote:

At 11/22/07 07:00 AM, CronoMan wrote:

At 11/21/07 08:01 PM, LordZeebmork wrote: There are ways of cooperating with Flash, just like there are ways of cooperating with basically every other game creation thing.

copy - paste?

Real methods.

Name one :P

So you're saying that you think Alien Hominid didn't sell? It did. I still see copies of it on the shelves of EB Games on a regular basis. New, not used.

of course it sold, but compared to unreal tournament, half-life, call of duty, diablo, f.e.a.r, etc etc it was nothing

Probably because all of those games were ultra-commercialized shit.

those games were kickass

Damn. I meant to say "less skill" there. That's why I guess I shouldn't debate when I'm tired.

You still can't in all seriousness say that creating a game in game maker takes more or equal the amount of skill and talent

So you're saying that just modifying the graphics, levels and sounds in a premade engine takes more kill than coding an entire game, even in Game Maker?

To make a new game you'll need to do more than just modify the graphics, levels and sound.
And yes. In Quake/Doom 3 you'll need some solid C++ experience as well, in Unreal it's all Unreal Scripting mostly

By the same argument, are any of those shitty FPS games the game industry shits out that much different from, say, Doom?

Yes they are. They provide new gameplay

Not really.

Yes they do :P

Fancy Pants Adventures? The Classroom?

I don't know those games, but I've played through most of what was supposed to be "best" and they're crap

Fancy Pants Adventures, The Classroom

I know a lot of people hate my stuff, but I put it here because I like it. I think it works the same way for most people with flashes on here.

That you like it doesn't make it great ;)

So? I like it, so I put it here. I don't care what other people think about it.

I'm no artist, but I can draw alot better than that using MSPaint

Then do it.

Ok :P

Bullshit. I think that platform games are actually the most common kind of Game Maker games.

And you don't think that has anything to do with the simplicity of making one?
I made on in VB6 once, it was pretty easy but then I had to do everything myself

Of course it has sometihng to do with the simplicity of making one, but don't forget that it's not easy to make a good one.

In Game Maker?

Metroid is a hyped game for kids playing in their parent's cellar

Just like almost every other Nintendo game. And most other modern games also.

You're generalizing way too much

Yes, there are alot of crappy games released today, but as I've said earlier, they at least have a high standard... most of them anyway

Contradiction much?

It's not a contradiction, you're just generalizing waaaay too much.
I'm not saying that everything you can get off the shelves of a gaming store kicks ass, because they don't. But most of them have a certain level of quality unacheivable in game maker or flash.

I still think it's pretty stupid to go around and think there is a possibility to make a real market out of games made in game maker, it's just not the case. Think about it; businesses spend millions of dollars hiring programmers, graphical artists, modellers, writers etc etc, when all they need obviously are graphical artists since any retard can make a game in game maker, it does not require any level of skill at all; It's an entertainment product

I never knew how good game maker was until today.
I'm upgrading to the pro edition. Which is 10 X better than it's original software, or flash.

For those of you who don't understand game maker pro's potential, let me explain it.

Cut scenes = Game maker Pro
Sprite, Text and Backdrop color de/re-color formations = game maker pro
Cursor customizer = Game maker pro
Web site immediate links on click, key press etc... = game maker pro
Music from CDs = Game maker pro

and the list goes on from those five abilities to all the other exclusives in game maker pro, lite (free ware version) doesn't have them.

And game maker pro is a measly cost of $20 or 15 Euro
Well thats a hell of a better price than flash eh?

Heres my 1p which these days = 2cents :D

Comapring the two is pointless. Both have strengths and weaknesses.
Some people prefare to do stuff one way, others prefare another.
If your serious about developing games then you need to learn how to program.
After that it dosnt matter what language you use - Fact!

You can do all of the above and more with Java / C++ / etc.

Price = Free.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it :)

At 11/23/07 09:48 AM, kchrules wrote: and the list goes on from those five abilities to all the other exclusives in game maker pro

oh.. .my god, custom cursors! wow. </sarcasm>

uhh... you're aware you can do all of that with flash too right? Just cause it's not part of an automated program wizard doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Can flash do online play? (idk if flash does.)