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At 11/4/07 05:46 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

Why wouldntve they jus all attacked the whitehouse then?

Ok 1. you need to learn how to spell, and you say you are 18.

2. I take you never heard about flight-93, the flight where the passengers knew what was going to happen and chose to fight back, there was three posible targets it would hit, one of the them was the White House.

At 11/4/07 07:45 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

Im done arguing

Clearly you are not.

You guys know what I was doing while u were thinking out ur shitty arguments?
I was cooking myself a big assed hamburger n i enjoyed it with a cold mountain dew.
You guys can make fun of me all u want cuz I know the truth, and I know many other truths of things you guys would probably die trying ignore.

So lets all jus have a round of applause for all the people who participated in this post.

I know i didn't quite get my message across but I urge everyone who reads this to consider visiting the website i got all this good info from. http://www.911truth.org/
Pls visit that site n check out all the things there cuz its a lot more organized.

At 11/4/07 10:07 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: You guys know what I was doing while u were thinking out ur shitty arguments?
I was cooking myself a big assed hamburger n i enjoyed it with a cold mountain dew.
You guys can make fun of me all u want cuz I know the truth, and I know many other truths of things you guys would probably die trying ignore.

Is this all you can come up to fight against our aguments, because if it is, you've lost all your credibility (if you even had any when you started this thread).

At 11/4/07 10:07 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: You guys can make fun of me all u want cuz I know the truth

didn't you just finshed saying you weren't sure what was true or not?

At 11/4/07 11:15 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 11/4/07 10:07 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: You guys can make fun of me all u want cuz I know the truth

didn't you just finshed saying you weren't sure what was true or not?

lol, thread over.

At 11/4/07 05:46 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Why wouldntve they jus all attacked the whitehouse then?

They tried to, but the passengers overtook the terrorists. Answers me this, what happened to all the people aboard those airplanes?

Ive heard there wa sonce a suicide plane that crashed right ouside it, no i dont think terrorists got lucky that one time as they say in the 9/11 commission, they're definitely covering up somthing, and you have to be a mindless loser to not think so.

You gotta be a mindless dumbshit to think there's actually a big coverup or that it wasn't perpetrated solely by Islamic terrorists. I'm pretty sure they didn't release every detail of the incident for logistical reasons, but I'm also pretty sure the government wasn't behind it, and it takes a special kind of idiot to think otherwise.

At 11/4/07 10:07 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: You guys know what I was doing while u were thinking out ur shitty arguments?
I was cooking myself a big assed hamburger n i enjoyed it with a cold mountain dew.
You guys can make fun of me all u want cuz I know the truth, and I know many other truths of things you guys would probably die trying ignore.

So lets all jus have a round of applause for all the people who participated in this post.

I know i didn't quite get my message across but I urge everyone who reads this to consider visiting the website i got all this good info from. http://www.911truth.org/
Pls visit that site n check out all the things there cuz its a lot more organized.

Hey shaggy let me break this down for you; you have the reading comprehension and spelling capability of a 12 year old. I assume you are because no one actually says "cuz" It is because. You are just saying you are 18 to add some credibility to what you are saying because you think that people will respect you if you are an adult.

Well guess what shaggy, I'm an adult and I sure as hell don't get respect from snot nose little brats like you. But if you want to grow up actually listen and reply to what we say okay. Unless you are just an alt here to piss everyone off; which I am starting to suspect.

Lesson one: don't quote 9-11truth.org it is the number one source of misinformation and lies. Try the screw loose change blog : http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ It points out actual lies that if you just read and look at the sources you can tell 100 percent are lies. Just read it, just look at it and then base what you say next off that.

Lesson two not everything that counters your argument has been made by the government. Heck these fools have accused me of being a government agent! Just because I disagree with them! Please just read these websites and if you still believe what you do then at least you have heard another argument.

Here just thumb through these:

www.debunking911.com

www.911myths.com

At 11/4/07 11:51 PM, NHT123 wrote: Here just thumb through these:

100 bucks says he dosen't look through them.

Well, its come to my attention that you guys have no idea what the fuck your talking about.
Ok, fine im going to dumb this down a bit for you guys, starting with thee way i type, I could give 2 shits and a fuck less what you guys think about my typing skillz, two trying to talk as if I'm inferior to any one who has the balls to reply n argue with me here, youve already lost.

N ive decided to let you guys know once again, I believe a lot of this stuff, you obviously don't, you cant change my mind and those who have started arguing with me obviously don't like the fact that i could be right, the info I've gotten could be right.

Its kinda like the puritans who came to America before it became America, they believed that god had chosen one group of people who would go to heaven, and all the rest would go to hell.
And the Puritans would brutally murder anyone who disagreed with them and or use their own law system to justify it.

So heres some true words... Im going to believe what i want, I never wanted Bush to become president, and after hearing about 9/11 on TV all those years ago , ..... I can honestly say that I suspected an inside job then, and after seeing people online who thought the same, I decided to try and tell other people about it.

But no, in my point of view you guys are just little bastards who just dont want to believe that our own government would do something like that, or maybe you know what would happen if they admitted it, full scale riots n anarchy maybe you think.
The government pays companies to kill us everyday, don't you think they could?
Tobacco companies, theyre responsible for all kinds of deaths.
The FDA, responsible for twice as many deaths per year than the total deaths of the Vietnam War.

The government is thinning out its own people's populations.

This is what I believe is true, and to those who don't believe, you better hope its not.

At 11/5/07 02:17 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Well, its come to my attention that you guys have no idea what the fuck your talking about.

Translation of whole post:

Nothing can change my views. I know what I know, and no amount of facts can change this knowledge, as I have seen the light.

You know, few people have sounded as much like George Bush.

Holy crap your such a fucking idiot its unreal, making a vow to stop arguing only to come back like a tool, believing everything you read on the internet, hell half of the shit thats true is just biased partial information. Stop talking and save any respect you have left you fucking idiot.

At 11/5/07 02:17 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Well, its come to my attention that you guys have no idea what the fuck your talking about.

And it has come to my attention that you seem to ignore any post that proves one of your claims as false, you don't seem to even try to argue.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/
c.cgi?u=911_morons

At 11/4/07 11:27 PM, JakeHero wrote:

At 11/4/07 05:46 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Why wouldntve they jus all attacked the whitehouse then?

They tried to, but the passengers overtook the terrorists. Answers me this, what happened to all the people aboard those airplanes?

DOI SILLY HEAD! They landed in Chicago, got off, and a remote controlled plane hit the dirt in PA. Didn't you watch Loose Change and Zeitgeist?

lolz

Damn, are you lot STILL ranting about this?

At 11/4/07 03:04 PM, SizZlE666 wrote:

At 11/4/07 02:56 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: Your an idiot.
(Import 50 consecutive cases to disprove everything you copy pasta)

I've heard that the air defence system took about 6 times longer to reply to the planes than their standard. I'm not sure if 9/11 was an inside job or not, but one thing is for sure: We need to scrap our defence system and make a better one.

I was part of the air defense system on that day. Basically we were not set-up for that kindof attack. At first we didn't realize it was an attack...the first plane hitting the first tower looked more like an accident than an attack. Then the FAA had to hand of responsibility for managing the US air space to the USAF. Then we had to scramble our F-16 ADF (Air Defense Fighters) of which we only had 14 on alert (afterall the Cold War was over and the military had to deal with budget cuts). Once airborne these fighters took up their pre-assigned air defense routes that was designed to deal with incoming Bear Bombers from the USSR.

Since that time we have re-postured our assets and put more fighters on alert. Al-Qaida took advantage of our weakness in that we were not prepared for asymentrical warfare. We are ready now.

At 11/4/07 05:46 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

Why wouldntve they jus all attacked the whitehouse then? Ive heard there wa sonce a suicide plane that crashed right ouside it, no i dont think terrorists got lucky that one time as they say in the 9/11 commission, they're definitely covering up somthing, and you have to be a mindless loser to not think so.

Terrorists typically attack targets that have something to do with one of three spheres of the targeted government:

1) Economic Sphere: The WTC was in center of what can be described as the financial capital of the US, and a symbol of American Economic (if you will) Imperialism.

2) Military Sphere: The Pentagon...'nuff said.

3) Government: We do not know where the plane that went down in Penn was headed. Could've been the White House or Capital building.

The terrorists did not only get lucky, they were clever and hit us when and where it hurt taking advantages of kinks in our armor.

There is no conspiracy, only a fiction sold to those who mindlessly believe in conspiracy theories in order to feel "awake".

Hmm well you guys can believe all that shit u want n believe im an idiot soz to make urselvez feel like youve accomplished something.

But you guys are wrong. And I'm gona keep saying that cuz i know im right, and wether or not you guys are smart enough to pull ur head outa ur asses is your choice.

So yeah, i recommend you read the posts in my account page, not BBS posts i mean the posts "WITHIN"
my account page, the part you see right when you click on profile.
Read all of it.

Now its pretty obvious that you guys aren't gonna just come out n say that you're too scared to accept the possibility that your own government wants to kill you in many different ways.
Call me whatever you want but its not going to chance the fact you read this and its in your mind, now process this information and come back n post a reply that isnt as immaturely insulting when youve finalycome out of your self induced ignorance.

At 11/5/07 03:16 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:

But you guys are wrong. And I'm gona keep saying that cuz i know im right,

Yeah some who keeps useing the "I'm right you'er wrong speach" speech should be taken seriously.

saracsm

Why do people like you show up for almost every big event in modern day history?

At 11/5/07 05:00 PM, LordJaric wrote: Why do people like you show up for almost every big event in modern day history?

Attention.

At 11/5/07 02:17 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Its kinda like the puritans who came to America before it became America, they believed that god had chosen one group of people who would go to heaven, and all the rest would go to hell.

History is really not your strong point. The puritans didn't come to America because they believed they were a chosen people; they came to escape Anglican oppression.

And the Puritans would brutally murder anyone who disagreed with them and or use their own law system to justify it.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? The puritans didn't institute some sort of inquisition against those who theocratically disagreed with them, quit the contrary, they gave these individuals to either stay and follow their laws and customs, or leave the colony. Infact, the founder of the state of Rhode Island did the latter, and thus how Rhode Island came to be.

You continue to demonstrate how mentally-ill you are by espousing your own twisted version of history, which leads me to ask you how we can trust your judgment on 9/11? If you don't care what we think why are you even here trying to proslytize us into your dogma? Even the most ardent Bush haters don't buy this 9/11 conspiracy crap.

You never did answer my questions, what happened to the passengers on all the flights if a remote controlled airplane hit the World Trade Center and Pentagon?

At 11/5/07 03:16 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Call me whatever you want but its not going to chance the fact you read this and its in your mind, now process this information and come back n post a reply that isnt as immaturely insulting when youve finalycome out of your self induced ignorance.

Shaggy,

I'm not calling you names or "immaturely insulting" you. I will refrain from making personal attacks on you, and instead focus on points of the conspiracy theory.

However, I will begin by saying this. You talk about those of us who do not believe you and doubt your belifes as having "self induced ignorance". So far I have only seen you cite extremist sources (the Natl Lawyers Guild) and 911truth.com. It appears to me that you are limiting your intake of information to only those sources that confirm your worldview. That is no better than those "sheeple" who only watch CNN, the Networks and FOX news.

I am a scholar (earning a PhD in Political Science) and on 9/11 I was a member of the USAF working on the flightline so on top of my academic background in political science/history I can also claim to be an aviation professional (F-16 Avionics Technician). The study of conspiracy theories has long been an academic hobby of mine. So far the only one that makes any sense to me is Roswell...but that's beside the point.

Now, I have looked at Loose Change and many websites such as 911truth.com. They do not convince me. For the following reasons:

1) There was no stand-down order issued to the USAF on that day. I was stationed at Shaw AFB, SC (on the East Coast and only about 30-60 minutes from DC by F-16) working on the F-16 (which is America's most common Air Defense Fighter). If such an order had been issued I would've known about it and my base would not have been flying. Instead we were exercising that day which meant that we were not only flying but putting 12 aircraft per squadron in the air at a time opposed to the normal schedule of 6-8. This means that on 9/11 one of the bases that was posed to respond was flying more sorties than usual. This would not be the case if a stand down order was issued.

2) The eyewitness reports of the "A-10" that allegedly shot down the plane in Pennsylvannia do not match up with an A-10's shape or normal paint job. Furthermore, the A-10 is a ground attack plane and if this conspiracy was true we would've used a F-15, F-16 or F-22 which would have been flying at high altitude and would've launched its missile from over 50 miles away and therefore would not have been seen.

3) What is typically pointed to as a bomb on the aircraft that hit the WTC is not a bomb, but to trained eyes such as mine is the nacelle where the wing attaches to the fueselage of the aircraft.

4) That there is a big hole in the outer rings of the Pentagon and a small hole in the inner rings is in keeping with an aircraft strike and not a missile strike. A missile wouldn've penetrated and then exploded leaving the most damage in the center rings. However, an aircraft is made out of light metal alloys such as titanium and aluminum which means that the force of the impact will be absorbed rather quickly. The only parts of the aircraft that still had enough density to keep forward momentum and penetrate the inner rings are things such as the landing gear.

This is not a comprehensive list. But rather a few of the things I can look at with expertise and say that the conspiracy theorists are definately wrong on. Furthermore, I do not know what points have convinced you that you are right so I may not be talking about things that would discredit the conspiracy theory in your eyes. But I can say definitively that these parts of the theory are flat out wrong.

At 11/5/07 06:27 PM, TheMason wrote: and on 9/11 I was a member of the USAF working on the flightline

**gasp** an admitted member of the conspiracy, how can anything you say be true. I won't even read the rest of your post.

so there

At 11/5/07 06:27 PM, TheMason wrote:
I'm not calling you names or "immaturely insulting" you. I will refrain from making personal attacks on you, and instead focus on points of the conspiracy theory.

Mason. Buddy. We all appreciate your efforts. There is just nothing that can be done for this poor soul. We should all really just move on from Shaggy.

To Shaggy: Seriously, prove me wrong! Actually listen to another opinion with an open mind. It is what you ask all of us to do. Personally, I once was a 9/11 truther like you. Then I got into physics. They don't add up. Nothing in loose change or Zeitgeist hasn't been debunked in one way or another. I ran the equations, they don't work. The science fails, and I only realized this when I decided to listen, and have a true discourse. Please, I bessech you, let us show you the facts. the Bush administration has plenty of blood on their hands, but the government did not murder 3,000 people in one day. That kind of thing takes at LEAST a month.

Pretty please! PM one of the Republicans, they keep the anti- conspiracy sites on a holster.

So who do you guys think is the most n00bish of all, CBBrooklyn, or Shaggy?

At 11/5/07 07:01 PM, K-RadPie wrote: So who do you guys think is the most n00bish of all, CBBrooklyn, or Shaggy?

Begoner.

At 11/5/07 06:57 PM, SlithVampir wrote:

To Shaggy: Seriously, prove me wrong! Actually listen to another opinion with an open mind. It is what you ask all of us to do. Personally, I once was a 9/11 truther like you. Then I got into physics. They don't add up. Nothing in loose change or Zeitgeist hasn't been debunked in one way or another. I ran the equations, they don't work. The science fails, and I only realized this when I decided to listen, and have a true discourse. Please, I bessech you, let us show you the facts. the Bush administration has plenty of blood on their hands, but the government did not murder 3,000 people in one day. That kind of thing takes at LEAST a month.

Pretty please! PM one of the Republicans, they keep the anti- conspiracy sites on a holster.

You've hit upon the major problem of discussing politics on an online forum. You see to change a deeply held belief, most people need more than straight logic. They need it from someone they have respect for. Otherwise its just "what does he know... he's just some teenage tard" or "he's just some guy in his thirties living with his mom and addicted to porn." and will discard the logic as simply flawed, without internalizing it. however if its a teacher who you respect, or your friend that explained the homework to you, you have a chance at changing your opinions.

Ok i think u guys got things under control here im jus gonna leave u guys to wonder about stuff cuz that was my intention in this post, we cant believe what the government has tolf us what happened on 9/11 cuz evidently they're lying.
Its good that people here are asking questions now instead of insulting me for questioning the oficial story in the first place.
The problem is that I dont have all the answers, thats why i made this to motivate everyone to do some research cuz with the research ive done myself although I dont understand it all, its a step in the right direction.

So let us all hope either the government tells us the truth or we pry the truth from them.

At 11/5/07 08:17 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: we cant believe what the government has tolf us what happened on 9/11 cuz evidently they're lying.

why is it so evident they were lying?

Its good that people here are asking questions now instead of insulting me for questioning the oficial story in the first place.

you were being insulted because everyone was providing stronger evidence then what you provided yet you ignored it and continued insunuating their ignorance.

and because conspiracy theorists have consistantly shown themselves to be idiots, you are no exception.

The problem is that I dont have all the answers, thats why i made this to motivate everyone to do some research cuz with the research ive done myself although I dont understand it all, its a step in the right direction.

this supports my previous assertion that i have in fact done more research than you have and it has shown me that the conpiracies are bullshit.

So let us all hope either the government tells us the truth or we pry the truth from them.

tell me, what truth are they witholding?

Well I'm still laughing my ass off.