Save the Mushrooms!

[cellardoor6]

The Dutch are protesting against the government's plan to ban hallucinogenic mushrooms (containing psilocybin).

Link:

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Protesters turned out on Amsterdam's central Dam Square on Saturday, hoping to stop the government from banning magic mushrooms and asking to "save the 'shrooms."

Carrying banners reading "When will they ban bread?" and "Boss of your own brain," more than 100 people, some wearing hats resembling the bright red cap of the popular fly agaric variety, protested to keep hallucinogenic mushrooms legal.

After several incidents involving tourists -- in March, a French teenager jumped to her death from a bridge after taking mushrooms -- the Dutch government plans to ban them.

Arno Adelaars, author of a book on magic mushrooms, said this would only drive users underground and what was needed instead was better information how to use mushrooms right.

"It's only foreigners who have this problem, the Dutch don't because they have good information," he said.

"Amsterdam is like a pilgrimage for youngsters in Europe, they come here to get high in all kinds of ways.

"The typical young tourist that comes here drinks an awful lot of beer, smokes an awful lot of grass, and then takes mushrooms. That's the recipe for disaster."

-----------------------------

I'm siding with the protesters in this issue.

See, in my observation the Dutch are kind of a unique, in that they effectively maintain a successful economy and society despite the legality and widespread use of drugs. They have access to drugs that are illegal in most other western countries, many Dutch people use Marijuana and Psilocybin mushrooms often, yet the thing that finally makes their government want to ban them, after years of responsible use by Dutch citizens, is mindless tourists. That's pretty stupid, it's a perfect example of government gone wild, making illogical decisions based on the irresponsibility of a few, and punishing the majority in the process.

Now people who might be inclined to side with their government, try and think about this in some other area. What if something like this happened in your country? You responsibly enjoy some sort of recreational activity for years, then a tiny minority do something stupid, then your government overreacts and decides to punish responsible citizens by banning it for everyone?

Now, something I find funny about this is that the highlight of my experience in the Netherlands, Amsterdam specifically, was when I was tripping balls on shrooms. I was one of those tourists they are talking about, lol. Except, I didn't do anything stupid really other than sit on bench with my friend and throw acorns into the river for hours and talking about things like "gravity", "liquids", and "color" with newfound interest.

I don't really have that much of a political point to make, but this story just jumped out at me for personal reasons.

What do you think about it?

Discuss.

[SlithVampir]

At 10/28/07 09:41 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

I'm siding with the protesters in this issue.

Seriously?

See, in my observation the Dutch are kind of a unique, in that they effectively maintain a successful economy and society despite the legality and widespread use of drugs.

True

responsible use by Dutch citizens, is mindless tourists. That's pretty stupid, it's a perfect example of government gone wild, making illogical decisions based on the irresponsibility of a few, and punishing the majority in the process.

Yup. See when you deprive people (americans) of something the want (magic mushrooms), they tend to overuse i(whoops, I OD'd). Ask any kid whose parents give the kid "limited time" on video games, and the kid plays for 10 hours at a friend's house about this phenomenon.

decides to punish responsible citizens by banning it for everyone?

Welcome to High School

[cellardoor6]

At 10/28/07 09:51 AM, SlithVampir wrote:

At 10/28/07 09:41 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

I'm siding with the protesters in this issue.

Seriously?

Yes, even though most of them are probably psychotic liberals, I empathize with this particular cause.

decides to punish responsible citizens by banning it for everyone?

Welcome to High School

Well during highschool you are attending at the order of your guardian who enrolled you, because you're not an adult.

Before you turn 18 your complaints are irrelevant.

[D2Kvirus]

There was a loophole in UK law (until recently, natch) that it wasn't illegal to sell mushrooms, as long as you hadn't dried or prepared them for consumption. Bear in mind that there wasn't a loophole for, say, selling seed sto grow cannibis with (although you can grow opium poppies - you just need a field full, though), it seemed odd, but then again why close it?

It was obvious who was buy ing them, especially on Camden High Street, yet there was never any related crime to it (as opposed to, say, the alcohol dispensed in any pub or club on that same road), yet apparently it had to be closed.

If anyone can give a valid reason as to why, I'd like to hear it. Until then, I'll try and find some of that bird seed with cannibis seeds in it, and hope for the best.

[Proteas]

At 10/28/07 09:41 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: What do you think about it?

I laughed my ever lovin' ASS OFF when I read about this last night in The Week. I think it's just hilarious that a nation so Liberal and well known for it's relaxed stance towards recreational drugs would take such a conservative anti-drug stance like this, and of all things they would seek to outlaw MUSHROOMS would be the main focus of their efforts.

I can just see it now...

"OUTLAW MUSHROOMS!!! Pass me a joint."

[morefngdbs]

At 10/28/07 09:41 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: The Dutch are protesting against the government's plan to ban hallucinogenic mushrooms (containing psilocybin).

What do you think about it?

;
I know this may sound odd, but I find this to be similar to Canada's gun registry.
They formed it to 'protect' Canadians from gun crime, but the many of people who didn't register their guns were those criminals the law was suppose to protect us from.
After all, why register a gun, if your a criminal... so that it goes better at your trial !
"Yes your honor I shot 2 people with that gun while robbing the bank, BUT I did register it with the firearms agency ."

While I'm not a fan of what I consider dangerous substances, I do drink alcohol.
Sometimes to excess & I like to smoke some pot from time to time.
Although I recognize how much harm is caused by alcohol, not just to the drinker, but often to innocents that encounter the drinker ie; Drunk driving fatalities, drunk fights/deaths family problems etc.
I feel that goverment is getting too involved with the individual and their rights to their own choices.
Having said that , I don't mean that people who decide to murder others should have that right, just as I don't think that drinking & driving are right.
But I do think you should have the right to drink if you want, smoke what you enjoy, if your inflicting no harm on others; I believe the goverment should have no say.
IF your commiting crimes while under the influence, then I believe you should have to pay for that by whatever a court of law determines.

How about this logic.
If you blame mushrooms for the death of these tourists... does it not follow that we should blame the rope that a person who commits suicide by hanging uses.
Or blame the bridge?
The river?
Should we make it illegal for bridges to be built over rivers?
IF they weren't there people couldn't jump off them.
This of course makes no sense...but if we go around looking for something to blame, just how ridiculous can it become.

[Earfetish]

Betcha more tourists have killed themselves in Holland with alcohol than they have doing stupid stuff on mushrooms.

[lapis]

Those tourists are usually dumbfucks from Germany, France and Denmark who go to Amsterdam for a day or a weekend and think "oh my God, now that we are here we should, like, totally do shrooms (and probably a lot of weed and alcohol along with it)" without seriously looking at the risks or other important factors such as doing it in a place with a comfortable atmosphere. And when trouble ensues our politicians in parliament blame the shrooms. Job Cohen, the mayor of Amsterdam, proposed that shrooms were no longer to be handed out immediately to a customer, but that a customer had to order them personally at a store and wait three days before he could pick them up. When the buyer placed the order, he would be given brochures and even though he might never read them at all the proposition would generally get rid of the problem with stupid tourists, which is basically the only problem there is.

I'm trying to think of arguments why a complete ban would be a better solution than just restricting the access to these shrooms but I seriously can't. And I can basically understand why the political Christians of the CDA, CU and SGP support the ban but I still don't understand why the "liberals" of the VVD and the "Freedom" Party of Wilders support it - without the VVD there would have been no majority in parliament. I've used the reddepaddo.nl (save the shroom) website to send an e-mail to members of parliament who support the ban but my efforts will be in vain. The people who manage the website have already called on growers to send spores to them so they then can distribute it further and allow more people to grow their own shrooms. Since this is a crime that's not even worth a eurocent of police money no effort will be made to prosecute them, just like homegrowing weed as long as you don't overdo it. In the end, Cohen's proposed measure achieves exactly what this ban is going to achieve except making it harder for conscientious Dutchmen to buy shrooms.

I'm not sure if this ban covers hallucinogenic cacti such as peyote, though. It would of course be utterly stupid to ban shrooms and keep peyote available for purchase but I've not yet heard a news source mention cacti. But if you're a potential dumbfuck tourist reading this: even if you manage to acquire peyote, then take it to Lille or Cologne, consume it there and bother them with your behaviour instead of people like me.

By the way, this has been going on for some time, I remember posting mentioning the potential ban in early April.

[lapis]

At 10/28/07 12:58 PM, Earfetish wrote: ...

By the way, that's "pleasureman" Günther in your sig pic, right? If so, bravo.

[Tomsan]

first Cellardoor post which isnt so very conservative redneckish shortsighted crap.

Anyway, I dont think they will be banned, if they are they will be available just as easily as they are now. The plan was to bann it for tourists only. Sounds good to me! Tourists here can get somewhat annoying now and then (Especially the fucking english scottish).

Its because of a new goverment, which consists of three parties (CDA, PVDA, CU), 2 being christian. Now everyone knows religion is conservative. But our prime minister will definatly not have the balls to realize this plan.

[Tomsan]

At 10/28/07 01:45 PM, lapis wrote: I still don't understand why the "liberals" of the VVD and the "Freedom" Party of Wilders support it - without the VVD there would have been no majority in parliament.

hmm I didnt realize this, I looked it up and you're right. Well was already planning to cancel my membership, this makes it easier.

[animehater]

I always did have a beef with the narcissistic attitude of the Dutch with their drugs and such.

[Earfetish]

At 10/28/07 01:57 PM, lapis wrote:

At 10/28/07 12:58 PM, Earfetish wrote: ...

By the way, that's "pleasureman" Günther in your sig pic, right? If so, bravo.

It is indeed, sir. I loved visiting your beautiful city, with its beautiful women; I love how the Dutch are so sensible and intelligent, yet so forward-thinking as to be the only country with a decent drugs policy, traditional values with impressive social policy, and I'm sensible on mushrooms.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

I would side with the protesters.

[stafffighter]

Something a lot of people fail to understand is that their pentalties for "hard drugs" are actually harsher than most other places. This makes them the perfect practicle example for reasonable legalization. I have to agree here, save the shrooms. Although in America we'd have someone bitching about the calories.

[Gunter45]

Taking this line of conversation a little bit more locally, I would say that their openness with softer drugs is the reason why they're not realizing the problems that America has with harder drugs. I feel like these anti-marijuana ads are a huge problem. You make it seem like these softer drugs are going to ruin your life when, in fact, they won't. They just might make you less motivated and miss out on shit. So, where's your credibility to say that heroin and cocaine will, most definitely fuck your shit up?

[cellardoor6]

At 10/28/07 11:44 AM, D2Kvirus wrote: There was a loophole in UK law (until recently, natch) that it wasn't illegal to sell mushrooms, as long as you hadn't dried or prepared them for consumption.

That's how it is in my state.

They have to prove intent to distribute it for drug use. If you have like a jar or bag of lbs of wet, freshly picked mushrooms they can't do anything. But if you have a bag of like 2 grams of dried mushrooms you get busted.

At 10/28/07 12:29 PM, morefngdbs wrote: I know this may sound odd, but I find this to be similar to Canada's gun registry.
They formed it to 'protect' Canadians from gun crime, but the many of people who didn't register their guns were those criminals the law was suppose to protect us from.
After all, why register a gun, if your a criminal... so that it goes better at your trial !

Smartest thing you've ever said.

I was originally going to find a way of using this as an example for the idiocy of gun control, but I didn't want the thread to go in that direction so I held off. Oh well.

At 10/28/07 12:58 PM, Earfetish wrote: Betcha more tourists have killed themselves in Holland with alcohol than they have doing stupid stuff on mushrooms.

Yes, but apparently alcohol is less taboo and considered more of a necessary part of life, or a more acceptable way to die. So people don't care about that.

Just like I'm sure more tourists are killed in car crashes in the Netherlands than from alcohol and drugs combined. Yet you don't see people idiotically trying to pass legislation to make automobiles illegal.

People allow their illogical view of something taint their interpretation of the larger issue. Shrooms aren't seen as an intrinsic right for people in the same way driving an automobile is, because certain people believe that the government has the right to determine that autos are necessary, and hallucinogenic drugs are not. Therefore someone dying from being stupid on shrooms is unnecessary and tragic, yet someone dying from being stupid behind the wheel of a car is just a fact of life.

It's stupid. Same thing with gun control. The majority of firearm crime is by people who do not legally own those firearms, therefore banning them will only make it so that criminals have guns. It won't solve anything, and will only take away the rights of the people that use them responsibily. Yet all the while, you don't hear anyone suggesting we should ban automobiles even though several times more people are killed in car crashes than from guns.

And of course... someone who sides with the shroom protesters here will take issue with this and probably be anti-gun in nature, thus having a mindset that is nearly identical to that of the Dutch govenrment.

[SolInvictus]

At 10/28/07 09:38 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I was originally going to find a way of using this as an example for the idiocy of gun control, but I didn't want the thread to go in that direction so I held off. Oh well.

i bet you haven't heard of Anastasia's law, god what a shit fest.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

I would totally side with the protesters mushrooms are sacred man.

[cellardoor6]

At 10/28/07 09:42 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 10/28/07 09:38 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I was originally going to find a way of using this as an example for the idiocy of gun control, but I didn't want the thread to go in that direction so I held off. Oh well.

i bet you haven't heard of Anastasia's law, god what a shit fest.

I have, it was the bill they passed after the Dawson College massacre. Basically using the name of someone to make any opposition to the bill seem wrong, and in desecration of the individual who died.

Kind of like the Brady bill in the US.

Or like the Becca Bill in my state which made being tardy and truant from highschool illegal, punishable by being thrown in juvenile detention ( thus being ridiculously ironic because that would make you miss school). This was all because a single girl skipped school to be a prostitute and ended up being murdered.

[MortifiedPenguins]

Not to chang the subject or anything.

But do they dutch have, to make the comparison, a FDA for drugs. I mean, so you know your not getting a hot dose or not getting shitted out of your money when you purchase your unmentionables in Holland?

Or is it all, just random.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 10/28/07 10:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Not to chang the subject or anything.

But do they dutch have, to make the comparison, a FDA for drugs. I mean, so you know your not getting a hot dose or not getting shitted out of your money when you purchase your unmentionables in Holland?

Or is it all, just random.

who knows the world it is random

[cellardoor6]

At 10/28/07 10:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Not to chang the subject or anything.

But do they dutch have, to make the comparison, a FDA for drugs. I mean, so you know your not getting a hot dose or not getting shitted out of your money when you purchase your unmentionables in Holland?

Or is it all, just random.

All I know is that the shrooms I bought in the Netherlands from a legitimate store came in a package with a logo and info on it, just like a box of twinkies or something.

So I assume the company that produced and/or packaged the shrooms has to follow certain rules and regulations, just like for any other product.

[SolInvictus]

and who deals with the drugs in the rest of the country since they're only legal in Amsterdam.

[lapis]

At 10/28/07 02:01 PM, Tomsan wrote: The plan was to bann it for tourists only.

No, dude, starting next year all sale of mushrooms will be prohibited, regardless of whether you're a citizen or not.

But our prime minister will definatly not have the balls to realize this plan.

There's not much that can stop him. Our parliament could put strong pressure on the responsible minister to reconsider the plan using a motion of disapproval (motie van afkeuring) but since a majority in parliament supported the decision there's no way in Hell that it'll pass.

At 10/28/07 10:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Not to chang the subject or anything.

But do they dutch have, to make the comparison, a FDA for drugs. I mean, so you know your not getting a hot dose or not getting shitted out of your money when you purchase your unmentionables in Holland?

Or is it all, just random.

All smartshops (the places where they sell herbal drugs except weed) are members of a national organisation, the VLOS (Vereniging Landelijk Overleg Smartshops). They have certain standards, they, for example, expect their members to include some basic information on the packages in which they put the mushrooms like cellar mentioned, although when I did mushrooms the information was not very elaborate, it just said what type of mushroom they were and warned people who were pregnant or suffering from depression or psychosis against eating them.

Members of the VLOS are allowed to use a certifcate and if you get screwed over by a member then you can take your complaint to the VLOS. Not all smartshops have to be a member though, so if you get shafted by a non-member then there's not that much you can do, unless they break the law by selling toxic mushrooms or something like that in which case you can go to the police.

At 10/28/07 11:13 PM, SolInvictus wrote: and who deals with the drugs in the rest of the country since they're only legal in Amsterdam.

No, they're legal in the entire country. But I don't think there are a lot of towns that actually have smartshops since there simply isn't a lot of demand, they had several in The Hague but if you live in a pit in the provinces then you might have to travel a few dozen miles to get mushrooms.

[NHT123]

I am against drug use to get high; so I side with anyone who wants to ban it.

However people must note before taking mushrooms that your stomach hurts like a mother fucker afterwards.

[cellardoor6]

At 10/29/07 08:50 AM, NHT123 wrote: I am against drug use to get high; so I side with anyone who wants to ban it.

See that's just stupid.

You're against it simply because you don't believe people should use drugs to get high? What about caffeine? Is caffeine not a drug that people use specifically for the high it provides? What about alcohol, are people not intentionally drinking for the effect it causes?

However people must note before taking mushrooms that your stomach hurts like a mother fucker afterwards.

It does for some people, it never did for me.

It usually happens soon after they eat them. This is pretty easy to avoid if you eat them on an empty stomach or make them into tea. Other than stomach aches, which is a pretty week negative side effect, I don't see how people could justify banning shrooms on medical grounds.

[Empanado]

At 10/28/07 01:57 PM, lapis wrote:

At 10/28/07 12:58 PM, Earfetish wrote: ...

By the way, that's "pleasureman" Günther in your sig pic, right? If so, bravo.

Oh God. That's not the guy from "Ooh you touch my tralala, my ding-ding-dong", right? Okay, if he's Dutch then from now on I hate all Dutchmen with a passion. Even more than how much I grew to hate every single Swede the day I heard "Anna Bot".

Seriously, Dutch people. Fuck off. Now I'm not even going to say that while implementing a waiting time of three days may be somewhat excessive (And according to what you say, a problem for people who don't live in large cities), it might as well be the only reasonable measure to crack down on stupid people doing crazy shit without seriously compromising the common man's right to shrooms.

[lapis]

At 10/29/07 09:16 AM, Empanado wrote: Oh God. That's not the guy from "Ooh you touch my tralala, my ding-ding-dong", right? Okay, if he's Dutch then from now on I hate all Dutchmen with a passion. Even more than how much I grew to hate every single Swede the day I heard "Anna Bot".

Heh, he's also Swedish according to Wikipedia. But me and my friends worship him like an idol. My mullet, moustache and sunglasses and suave fake Swedish accent unfortunately still don't make high school girls want to touch my tra-la-la, but I'm working on that. Seriously, one of my friends was bragging about wanting the ding dong song as a ringtone so I made one for him, but the worthless chickenshit refused to actually use it.

Seriously, Dutch people. Fuck off.

Dutch hater!!

[Dash-Underscore-Dash]

At 10/28/07 12:58 PM, Earfetish wrote: Betcha more tourists have killed themselves in Holland with alcohol than they have doing stupid stuff on mushrooms.

Good point, we should ban alcohol, too.