Mac OS 10.5 'Leopard' out on 26th

[different]

It's confirmed! 8 days to go to the launch, with lots of new features. I think the biggest one will be Core Animation, and I can't wait for third party developers to come up with some cool applications with it.

Time Machine already looks cool, that uses CA. :-)

So, who's getting a new Mac then?

[White-Rhyno]

At 10/18/07 06:30 AM, different wrote: It's confirmed! 8 days to go to the launch, with lots of new features. I think the biggest one will be Core Animation, and I can't wait for third party developers to come up with some cool applications with it.

Time Machine already looks cool, that uses CA. :-)

So, who's getting a new Mac then?

The OS looks really good, but I cannot justify paying money for rig that I could easily build myself, for half the price, with better hardware.

[different]

I doubt you could self-build something as beautiful as the iMac
.

Unless you were as good at design as Jonathan Ive.

[White-Rhyno]

At 10/18/07 07:27 AM, different wrote: I doubt you could self-build something as beautiful as the iMac
.

Unless you were as good at design as Jonathan Ive.

Matter of perspective really. I will concede that it does have a certain zen, minimalist flair that I dig, but not enough to pay the extra scratch for.

Besides, I like to trick out my tower with black lights and custom paintwork, so what I buy isn't what I end up with anyway. I also get parts warranty, so if I fuck up the case, of motherboard or whatever, I don't void the whole computer.

[different]

Macs are actually comparable to PCs, if you match them feature to feature. Of course, self builds can cost a lot less - but then you've got the choice of either Windows or Linux... No-one really seems to care about Vista (I forget, CronoMan does, sorry Crono), and a lot of what Linux does is 'borrowed' from Windows. Linux could be great, but they should stop copying the bad usability design of Microsoft!

OpenOffice is such an example - it tries to be MS Word, with all the bells and whistles that 80% of people only use 20% of the time.

Anyway, when you buy a new Mac, you're buying Leopard + iLife + the hardware itself - which is a pretty good deal (and they look so damn good too). The major differentiator is OS X - for me it's the best OS out there.

[thoughtpolice]

I guess it's time to put my old 256mb clunker with a PIII installed on it to work :) (it mysteriously died while it had solaris on it, so I installed freebsd for the time being.)

Im'a need a big goddamn page file.

[davisev5225]

I'll take my Vista Ultimate x64 machine any day. Every piece of hardware is far superior to what's in even the most expensive Mac system, but I didn't pay much extra for the whole thing.

PC pwns, Mac sucks and blows

[DearonElensar]

At 10/18/07 07:42 AM, different wrote: stuff about Linux and Open Office and some more stuff

They should really make a Lightroom (for the Mac) or Darkroom (if your on Windows) "clone" for Linux (at least, for as far as i know there isn't one around)
If i would want to type a piece of text i would certainly take such an option and add optional styling afterwards in a program like Open Office, but i agree "OOo" can be quite bloated.
And the TimeVault option of Leopard looks kickass :D

[Naois]

At 10/18/07 01:54 PM, davisev5225 wrote: I'll take my Vista Ultimate x64 machine any day. Every piece of hardware is far superior to what's in even the most expensive Mac system, but I didn't pay much extra for the whole thing.

Your PC has better than 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors, 16GB RAM, four 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA HDDs in RAID, a NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB Stereo 3D graphics card, and a 30" HD display?

Granted, that will run you $14,739

[different]

At 10/18/07 01:54 PM, davisev5225 wrote: I'll take my Vista Ultimate x64 machine any day. Every piece of hardware is far superior to what's in even the most expensive Mac system, but I didn't pay much extra for the whole thing.

PC pwns, Mac sucks and blows

Er.. hello? It's the same hardware. Dual core in all Macs. Mac Pros have up to 3Tb of storage, up to eight cores and up to 16GB of memory. Far superior my ass.

As for Windows... You can keep your registry, your virii and your malware. And Aqua. I mean, Aero. :-)

[Naois]

Back on topic, I won't be getting a new Mac, but I'll probably get both Leopard and iLife '08 for my MacBook fairly soon after the 26th.

[different]

That's cool. I'm still running Panther so Leopard is new Mac time. I can't decide on a notebook or an iMac however.

I guess it was inevitable to have a Mac vs Windows war in this thread... it's so boring going over the same crap all over again. Anyone else getting Leopard?

[thoughtpolice]

At 10/18/07 05:41 PM, different wrote: Anyone else getting Leopard?

It's the main reason I didn't look into buying a macbook before now; I figured it would be just as easy to wait (especially on the pockets) until Leopard came out than just buy a macbook a month or two before its release anyway. I'll be looking forward to seeing myself snatch one around christmas, though.

(Speaking laptops, I'm also getting one to put linux on, anybody have any feedback on a Thinkpad X61?)

[That-Is-Bull]

I'ma order it from Amazon, $20 off. It looks fucking awesome. My only complaint is that they supposedly got rid of Front Row's sexy zoom out effect and replaced it with a gay fade-in.

Also, Tiger is miles ahead of Vista. Anybody who owns both knows that.

[RageOfOrder]

I just wanna know.... What happens when you want to customize your PC? All the macs look the same and there's nothing you can do about it. (case wise)
I like to have a unique(ish) case with matching fans, U/V reactive cables, etc etc.

What happens when you want to change a dead video card? You send it to Apple is what you do.
What happens when you want to add a hard drive? You go external USB and worry about overheating and speed issues, or you send it to Apple!
What happens when you want to add a second monitor? It doesn't match, does it!
What happens when the power supply dies? You send it to Apple!
What happens when a new version of your OS comes out? You toss your old mac and buy a new one!
What happens when you want to add hardware (video capture card, tv tuner, etc) to your mac? You ask apple or buy a new mac!

What happens when hardware fails in a PC? I change it.
What happens when a new version of my OS comes out? I type

# emerge -uDn world

What happens when I want to add a second monitor? I buy one identical to my current monitor. Or two new ones if I want my old one for another purpose.
What happens when I want to expand my hardware? I go buy it and put it in.

So basically they took a laptop, removed the hinge and keyboard, put a stand on it and said "look! It's a desktop! We are so creative! zOMG"

[DearonElensar]

At 10/19/07 01:14 AM, RageOfOrder wrote: Stuff

While i agree on some points, there is also some FUD style stuff in your post :(
It is no problem buying an upgrade pack (yeah this costs money, but you also pay for it when you buy a new Mac)
Apple also sells displays, so it is possible to get the same display multiple times
And what is wrong with external hard drives? usb 2 is fast enough in my opinion and i really like mine , and i have yet to encounter a problem like overheating.
Also on the Apple website under the support section there are entries on how to do things like add/change RAM yourself, so it is possible to go in and change hardware on your Mac if you want to.
The only difference that i can think of when you compare a Mac to a pc (hardware wise that is) is that Apple controls most (if not all) of the hardware etc. so if you want to buy extra hardware you are more or less tied to one distributor, but this has both it's up and downsides.

[RageOfOrder]

At 10/19/07 01:46 AM, DearonElensar wrote:

At 10/19/07 01:14 AM, RageOfOrder wrote: Stuff

While i agree on some points, there is also some FUD style stuff in your post :(

I was a bit frustrated during that post. So of course most of my points weren't thoroghly researched.

But I don't like the integrated look and feel much. I suppose it's useful for the average joe, who never opens his case anyways. But for someone like me, I want to be able to swap parts in and out at will. I don't like just buying a whole new machine. I upgrade parts as I require them or want them.

Plus the OS just would make me mad. It's not as configurable as Linux, and even, dare I say, Windows. If you look at my windows desktop you'd never guess it was Windows. Combining 3rd party shell replacements, window manager themes, docks, tweakers and virtual desktop enhancements Windows can be pretty unique.

I've never tried to customize a mac, but I've seen plenty and not once has anyone had a look other than the "brushed metal" that comes standard with every Apple program. Leads me to assume it's either very difficult or very obscure knowledge.

I definately like that macs are built for very tight integration between hardware and software, and the standards for look and feel are the same throughout the OS.

With Linux, I've got GTK apps and KDE apps, both use seperate managers for color scheme (although KDE is pretty good and handling everything). Systrays are done differently across window managers, hence E17 not even having one, since no standard exists yet. And since everything except the kernel and the GNU essentials are third party apps, integration doesn't always exist as well as I'd like.

Anyway, this is a nice advantage of linux (at least over windows) and it's still just as fast as it was on day 1.

[different]

In the case of the latest iMac, there's one screw at the bottom of the computer. Unscrew it and the back will come off, allowing you to add memory etc.

The Mac Mini is a little trickier, yes it's possible to get inside there... but nowhere near as easy as a standard box.

And the Mac Pro is designed for expansion, no worries there.

And I personally don't mind that Macs look the same. There's so much bad design in the PC industry that Macs just outclass the rest of the market.

[different]

At 10/19/07 04:20 AM, RageOfOrder wrote: the OS just would make me mad. It's not as configurable as Linux, and even, dare I say, Windows. If you look at my windows desktop you'd never guess it was Windows. Combining 3rd party shell replacements, window manager themes, docks, tweakers and virtual desktop enhancements Windows can be pretty unique.

For most people, you don't need to do that. Leopard will eliminate the need for third party window managers (with Spaces) finally, and you have the OS X dock already.

The OS itself doesn't need to be configurable. I would never use a computer with that colour scheme, it looks like poo. Is it more usable? For me, no. As long as it is attractive and functional (and usable), then it doesn't matter.

Sure, with Beryl you can spin four desktops around on a cube. But does it help you get work done? Surely not.

I've never tried to customize a mac, but I've seen plenty and not once has anyone had a look other than the "brushed metal" that comes standard with every Apple program. Leads me to assume it's either very difficult or very obscure knowledge.

What I like about Leopard is that finally, Apple are ditching the various looks of Tiger and using a consistent window look. If you absolutely HAVE to customise your windows, icons etc (not that you need to), you can have a look here:

http://interfacelift.com/themes-mac/

And Apple has a whole host of links to developers who do icon sets and screensavers, here:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ic ons_screensavers/

I found I've never needed to customise, because what's there works. :-)

I definately like that macs are built for very tight integration between hardware and software, and the standards for look and feel are the same throughout the OS.

Leopard will only enhance this concept, yes. :-)

With Linux, I've got GTK apps and KDE apps, both use seperate managers for color scheme (although KDE is pretty good and handling everything). Systrays are done differently across window managers, hence E17 not even having one, since no standard exists yet. And since everything except the kernel and the GNU essentials are third party apps, integration doesn't always exist as well as I'd like.

Sure, you have more choice. But it's choice you don't need to have. I don't need 50 different docks, just the one dock - that's fine for me. I don't need 50 different ways to shut down my computer or display a clock, or close windows down. I don't need 50 different indexers for quick search.

If what was there was inadequate, then yes I would consider a different option. But, it's not.

[zmulze]

Why would you need or want to customise a computer that looks so damn hawt in the first place?

[CronoMan]

At 10/19/07 07:23 AM, zmulze wrote: Why would you need or want to customise a computer that looks so damn hawt in the first place?

"hawt" is a relative term ;)
I don't actually see the point of "customizing" a computer. I rarely change anything except if it looks like shit. for instance, the default windows xp-theme. That looks like shit. Luckily, you can change it into windows 2000 appearance.

Leopord looks... ok... I just hope they've changed that horrible minimizing-effect, extremely distracting and extremely fugly. Looks "unprofessional"

[different]

At 10/19/07 08:23 AM, CronoMan wrote: Leopord looks... ok... I just hope they've changed that horrible minimizing-effect, extremely distracting and extremely fugly. Looks "unprofessional"

If you don't like the 'genie' effect, there's an alternate one which just scales the window down into the dock. I think you can also turn off the animation altogether, but I'm not sure. I wouldn't call it fugly though, it's over in like a second. Unless you hold down a key (shift I think) which slows down the entire thing.

I'd say all of the Windows looks were fugly, although the gadgets are alright in Vista. I don't get the transparency thing either, it doesn't enhance anything for me. I don't know how the semi-transparent menubar in Leopard will increase usability - to be honest I was happy with solid white. I think the new Dock will have to grow on me... what was wrong with black triangles? :-)

Anyway the rest of the features are pretty awesome, especially Quick Look (I know that'll be handy).

[luxaguar]

My dad has the beta of that! He works at boeing so he can use it :D that means I can to!

[That-Is-Bull]

Guided tour with some fag. I really fucking want this.

[Shadow00881]

Macs are the best computers you can get! If you don't like the look and you dont want to buy leopard, try ShapeShifter.

It works and it rocks!

Also, Macs run Windows. Windows doesn't run Mac.

Macs take half the space as a normal PC.

Macs look better.

Macs have better graphics.

Macs last longer.

AppleCare is the best Customer Support you can get.

Macs run fast.

The new iMacs have built in cameras.

Macs are more user friendly.

Mac's Spotlight kicks Window's search functions butt.

Mac has free support chat with a Mac expert at apple.com.

Macs come with built in mics.

And more!

Anyone wanting a computer should get a Mac. (They DO run most Adobe Software!)

[DearonElensar]

At 10/19/07 04:20 AM, RageOfOrder wrote:

At 10/19/07 01:46 AM, DearonElensar wrote:

At 10/19/07 01:14 AM, RageOfOrder wrote: Stuff

While i agree on some points, there is also some FUD style stuff in your post :(

More stuff

I do agree on Linux being far superior to Mac (and Windows) when it comes to tinkering with the thing, i was just a little annoyed by the FUD stuff that were easy to research :) (Microsofts antics have made me really allergic to FUD :P)

[thoughtpolice]

Oh, and I'm also looking forward to Objective-C 2.0 personally; the biggest upgrades are 64-bit support, garbage collection, better runtime, and many syntax improvements. I looked at it once but was not too happy, I'll give it a good look again once Leopard is out.

[RageOfOrder]

Ok so I have a bit of a fetish for customizing my computer. My interface is always different. I like the change. So here's a few of my desktops over the years.

July 5 2005, Windows
May 16 2006, Windows
January 22 2006, Windows
September 20 2006, Linux
November 10 2006, Linux
September 17 2007, Linux

My current linux desktop looks similar (with a color scheme change) to the last shot there.
I'll post my current windows theme later.

Enjoy.

[different]

There's more productive things to do than constantly change your window looks. The only thing I regularly change is the wallpaper.

Anyway, a screen of Mac OS 10.3 - with LaunchBar, iMote running. :-)

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image =desktopfr2.png

[Pedochu]

I've been waiting so long for this :) It seems like a big step up from Jaguar, what I'm currently using. I'm glad this thread isn't filled with Mac Haters as well. Or biased annoying mac fanboys :p