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Thats funny. The point general of my post was that, a marriage is a marriage. What you were purposing is to make something like a marriage but not a marriage for gay couples, which is just silly. A marriage in the present times is not a religous union but a legal one, marriages are preformed by non-clergy memebers all the time, such as judges. So religion really plays no part in the marriage other than perhaps tradition. But why break with tradition? I mean we only have done it hundreds of times before, like with women voting and blacks owning property. Its not equal unless it is equal in every way, including the name.

At 10/16/03 08:51 PM, RugbyMacDaddy wrote: stuff

Amen.

Yes, and i suppose that the romans persecuted the catholics for MONETARY reasons... Oh, wait, no. Its called a goddam culture war, dumbass. The catholic chruch does not want to change its traditions. Money does not enter into it. If religionjs worked like that, the Jains would allow their followers to own large agri-businesses, cause Food is an incredibly precious commodity in India. Hey, I bet the confuscians would take a seperation from the fervent contemplation of the spiritaul off their lists, so people could worship Conuscious as god, and they could sell lots of little statues of him, and open big churches so they could collect money.

At 10/16/03 08:56 PM, General_Patton wrote: Yes, and i suppose that the romans persecuted the catholics for MONETARY reasons... Oh, wait, no. Its called a goddam culture war, dumbass.

We're talking about the Vatican, the richest church in the world, losing money. We're not talking about Romans.

The catholic chruch does not want to change its traditions. Money does not enter into it.

Oh, but...see...you're wrong there. First off, they DO want to change the traditions because if they don't? They lose credibility AND money. They're even talking about letting priests get married, to cut down on the child molestation cases.

And WHY can't priests get married in the first place?

It's nothing having to do with Biblical teaching (not that the Catholic church really worries about that). It's because years ago, when the church wasn't hearly as wealthy as it is today, it wanted to be sure that when the priests died, the church was the only on inheriting all of the priest's estate, if there was one. It was a way to get money.

If religionjs worked like that, the Jains would allow their followers to own large agri-businesses, cause Food is an incredibly precious commodity in India.

Again, the post you're responding to was about Catholicism.

Hey, I bet the confuscians would take a seperation from the fervent contemplation of the spiritaul off their lists, so people could worship Conuscious as god, and they could sell lots of little statues of him, and open big churches so they could collect money.

The Vatican is the most money-hungry church in the world.

Are you familiar with the idea of purgatory? If so, then you must get where I'm going with that. They just want MONEY. And that was what the post was about!

To make it simple:

If the Vatican wanted to get more money, they could...

Let gay catholics marry.

Let gay catholics adopt children.

Church would get paid throughout the child's lifetime, and BY the child, when the parents go to purgatory.

That's what (I think) the Catholic/money thing was about.

HAha thats not funny. I believe in Confuscianism. Its not a religion to begin with, more of a way of life through a collection of moral codes. We dont worship anything really, just honour our fellow man. Confucious was just a man, and didnt not want to be treated like more than he was, he felt no one should treat him for mor ethan he was, a teacher and a mentor. Once while he was ick and almost dying his pupils gathered around his bedside dressed up really fancy and he asked them what they were doin being dressed up like that, so if people were to worship him, they would be violating the teachings of Confuscious.

George C. Scott you bring up a good argument. There are many religions that truly don’t believe in wealth. And there are others that preach it but don’t practice it. AND I thought I made myself clear above when I wrote "Pope" and "Catholic" several times that I was speaking of the Catholic Church asshat!

The Dalai Lama or Budda isn’t on TV every other day or in the papers spreading hate for homosexuals, but the Catholic Church is!

thats what i mean. If religions function as he suggetst, all the things i have said and he had said would happen. However, Whatever you mean by purgatory, no one pays to get people out of purgatory. I dont even know where yuou would FIND info like that.

Here, Here!

I dont see the pope spreading hate against homosexual either. Where in the hell do you come UP with this stuff. The last time i looked, the catholic church is also one of the most caritable religoins in the world. I don't see any OTHER religions spending such large amounts of money on people that aren't even of their religoin to begin with.

At 10/16/03 08:49 PM, General_Patton wrote: Dammit, religions have their own damn definition of marriage. A state marriage between gays should be legal. Yes. A religious marriage, depends on the relioign. You can call your wife wife, it does not goddam matter. I merely suggested that religions opposed to GAY marriage may create somehting else so they can keep their cake AND eat it.
The stuff about nation states and such, i was merely trying to show that being gay is NOT a lifestyle choice.

Well, it depends on how you cut it, really... people tend to overgeneralize Christianity. As I have... time and time again... emphasised, not all Christians are homophobic, and not all Christians are opposed to gay marriage. Now... I see what you're getting at here. You're essentially asking... "Could two black people be married under the KKK?", and then go on to say that religious groups will outline their own systems of beliefs about marriage.

In this sense... I can agree, though it should vary from church to church as opposed to major religion to major religion or denomination to denomination. Meaning... if a church is willing to preform a gay marriage, and call it a marriage, that's fine by me.

As a matter of fact... one thing in regards to the term 'marriage'.

If you want to go off the concept that 'marriage' is traditionally between a man and a woman, I ask you this thing... in what ways is a marriage traditional?

It's not traditional in the sense that the bride and groom were forced to marry by decisions their parents made when they were very young.

It's not traditional in the sense that the intent of the union is to increase the land owned by the parents.

It's not traditional in the sense that it's between two people of the same religion necessarily.

It's not traditional in the sense that it is restricted to people of the same social class and race.

It's traditional in the sense that it doesn't make anyone uncomfortable -- that's it. Racial/religious barriers had the same thing -- should we say that a black man and a white woman are only under a 'civil union' now? Or that the Agnostic and the Christian aren't actually 'married' so much as 'united'? I personally don't think so.

When the Pope says that Homosexual activity and abortion is wrong over and over again, to the point were nuts walk into A Planned Parenthood and shoot up the place, then I would say that that is hate speech.

They spread money around to get more recruits! The helping people is a front. Why do some many people who go into AA come out praising Jesus! Missionaries go into Africa to feed and educate the people and teach them about THEIR religion.

The US uses “aid” as a front to carry out its global police state, the Pope uses “aid” as a front to carry out his global religious state. It was a Pope hundreds of years ago, who term the word “propaganda” and it has been the nature of the beast to spread lies and deceit people for power ever since.

Thats the point. Its not propaganda, its called being a missionary. Thats what the catholic church DOES. It helps AND does missionary work. Whenever ANYONE spreads any kind of view, it is propaganda. When the DMV tells you not to drink and drive, taht is propaganda, when you tell me that the Catholic church is made of money-grubbers, that is propaganda. Its NOT like southpark. Food comes first, THEN they buy the bibles. Whether you accept the catholic views or not, the aid is still given out.
And at that point, its time to get back to the hoomework.

Yes because we all know that their is no or little truth behind how bad drinking and driving is. Missonaires go around the world to give aid and to convert people. The hope is that by giving the aid baits people and then they get reeled into the world of God. The aid is a means to get people to listen about God. I wonder how come the basic sex position is named after missionaries. Maybe because although sex is nice great, its still kinda dirty, like giving out aid to get people to believe in God? I dunno just a wierd idea.

To everyone saying gay sex isnt natural:

People building things (by your definition) isnt natural but its not illegal is it?

And also wouldnt that mean masturbating isnt natural either and should be illegal as well?

P.S. Everything is natural. Humans are natural so therfor everything they do is natural weather its straight sex, gay sex, or beastiality (aka humpin animals).

At 10/16/03 09:36 PM, RugbyMacDaddy wrote:

Ha. Good point.

At 10/16/03 09:07 PM, americawasted wrote: AND I thought I made myself clear above when I wrote "Pope" and "Catholic" several times that I was speaking of the Catholic Church asshat!

While...I never ever condone the use of namecalling...

*laughs her ass off*

That just cracked me up.

The words 'Pope' and 'Catholic' = Catholicism.

A valuable lesson has been learned here today.

...

As for purgatory.

Families pay to have masses said in their loved one's name, to get them OUT of purgatory.

PAY = MONEY.

Actually, that is untrue. I AM a catholic, i i know for a fact that no one has to pay to get anyone out of purgatory. Whoever told you this is either some jerkoff fake priest, or you are thinking of some Christian demonination. There is absolutely NO fee to get out of purgatory. It just happens.

At 10/16/03 08:08 PM, General_Patton wrote:

I am not saying that homosexual are bad, or that they should not have sex. That is their right. They can be what they want. However, marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman. There can be another legal arrangement made for homosexuals. Every time somehting does not fit everyone's politcally correct view of the world doesn't mean it has to be changed.

I agree with what you said in that last sentence...I think we could also use that argument to justify WHY a gay union should and could be called a marriage. Why do we need to stick to any standard definition of "a marriage is a spiritual, and contractual union entered into by a man and woman" you have not given one solid reason WHY this definition should not be changed. It seems like you don't agree with gays, but are trying to dance around saying so, because you don't want to be flammed or called homophobic.

Attention!!!

A place for gay people to get married.

Quote from website:
"Weddings
There is no minimum residency requirement for weddings in Ontario, even for same-sex couples. Let us help you plan your wedding Please let us know if we can host your guests or your wedding. Specializing in small weddings for people coming from the USA."

Canada is the answer!!! All hail Canada!!!

Canada! Its like USA just free... er.

At 10/16/03 10:56 PM, General_Patton wrote: Actually, that is untrue. I AM a catholic, i i know for a fact that no one has to pay to get anyone out of purgatory. Whoever told you this is either some jerkoff fake priest, or you are thinking of some Christian demonination. There is absolutely NO fee to get out of purgatory. It just happens.

Okay, I was watching the baseball game and was in a hurry for my last post.

So. THIS IS OFF TOPIC. I might just start a topic about catholicism so we stop going off topic. But I have to answer this much.

I'll explain what EVERY OTHER CATHOLIC I know personally has explained to me. In fact, I've been living with one for three years.

Lighting candles: $0.00
Praying by yourself: $0.00
Having an entire mass said by the church on Sunday in your relative's name, to help them out of purgatory: A pretty fuckin' penny.
Heaven: priceless.

See, I'm not talking about just...praying. I'm talking about a full mass said in the name of your family member, and that's supposed to help them get out. And it is NOT free. Not by a long shot.

Now, back to the topic, please. If you want to discuss this further, make a catholicism topic so we can stop screwing with this one.

Canada is a good nation, no matter how much it is made fun of by the United States. They're very progressive on all viewpoints.

I agree. Canada does get made fun of by the United States a lot, but they certainly know how to appease to the people. I think our government could take a lesson from them..

Ah I love my country, the true north strong and FREE.

Im curious, is catholic part of the umbrela of christianity?

Bush is an idiot. That's all there is to it.
Just fucking let them get married already.

Well technically two people of the same sex cant get married because of the definition of the word but I think they should change the official term to "Union" for both heterosexual and homosexual weddings and allow people to have same sex "Unions"

y'know what the best part is? that ammendment, no matter how its worded, even if it passes (which it won't) can never ban the state of being married (i.e. they can ban the actual marrige, but once you're married, they can't do anything about it)

i hear canada's a great place for a wedding. ; )

Move over Vegas, Canada the next wedding captial. And in GW's mind the real sin country (from our herion clinc in BC, our not so strict stance on pot, same sex marrage, no war in Iraq, our "bad" immegration policy and our liberal views.)

Buddha bless Canada

lol i live in america, but i might just make that into a bumper sticker and put it on my truck

At 10/20/03 04:42 PM, RugbyMacDaddy wrote: Ah I love my country, the true north strong and FREE.

Im curious, is catholic part of the umbrela of christianity?

I should probably do this in the catholic category, but i am too lazy. All acth9olics are christians, not all christians are catholic. The roman catholic church is from wence ALL christian churches split off from, most during the reformation.

I'd like to point out that the idea has been thrown up for a black Pope after John Paul II passes on. Reformation II is in order.