Lobbying

[PhoenixTails]

A senator is *encouraged* to vote a certain way on a bill because he and his family get a free cruise to Hawaii. His son gets an Xbox 360, and his wife gets anything from JC Penney's that she wants.

Maybe it's just me, but I think lobbying is tantamount to bribery. I mean, WTF!?!?!? If I give Senator X 20 bucks to vote a certain way, o noes thats bribery, but Wal-Mart can pay for the next 2 years of his life, and thats not.

/angryfaic

[PhoenixTails]

I realized this some time ago, but I haven't ranted about it on NG till now.

[n64kid]

whoops I made a new topic but...
Poor people don't get a say in government. This will be true with or without lobbying. You need something the politician wants in order to sway them so what did you expect?

[Gunter45]

I work for a non-profit organization that lobbies representatives. They're "encouraged" to vote a certain way based on what their constituents support.

I mean, you are aware that there's a lot more to lobbying than giving people money, right?

[SlithVampir]

At 10/15/07 06:11 PM, PhoenixTails wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I think lobbying is tantamount to bribery. I mean, WTF!?!?!?

Better late then never....

at least he realized it

[Drakim]

Lobbying is just natures way of messing with democracy before things turn out too fair. It's like the birds and bees crap.

[Gunter45]

Jesus, and I thought that the topic starter was the only one who didn't know what lobbying really was.

A lot of lobby groups work to make government work how it's supposed to, but, of course, you guys wouldn't know that, would you?

[Drakim]

At 10/16/07 06:48 AM, Gunter45 wrote: Jesus, and I thought that the topic starter was the only one who didn't know what lobbying really was.

A lot of lobby groups work to make government work how it's supposed to, but, of course, you guys wouldn't know that, would you?

Ofcourse. Because, if somebody uses money instead of their vote to shape the government, it automatically turns for the better now matter what, since money has this magic evergood power that makes anything it touches into morality.

[Gunter45]

At 10/16/07 07:22 AM, Drakim wrote: Ofcourse. Because, if somebody uses money instead of their vote to shape the government, it automatically turns for the better now matter what, since money has this magic evergood power that makes anything it touches into morality.

Go ahead, keep proving you don't know what lobbying means.

[RedSkunk]

I was going to write some witty response to you gunter, but then drakim is pretty stupid. Continue on.

[SlithVampir]

At 10/16/07 06:48 AM, Gunter45 wrote: Jesus, and I thought that the topic starter was the only one who didn't know what lobbying really was.

A lot of lobby groups work to make government work how it's supposed to, but, of course, you guys wouldn't know that, would you?

We don't live in Never Never land Like you.

Enlighten Us!

[PhoenixTails]

Thats EXACTLY what lobbying is. Legal bribery.

[Gunter45]

At 10/16/07 08:49 PM, PhoenixTails wrote: Thats EXACTLY what lobbying is. Legal bribery.

So, what do you call it when they don't give the representatives money and influence them with other means like, I don't know, say... voting influence?

[Warhammer]

Lobbying is the legit way to get people on your side without getting busted for something stupid like bribes.

[RedSkunk]

At 10/16/07 09:28 PM, Gunter45 wrote:

At 10/16/07 08:49 PM, PhoenixTails wrote: Thats EXACTLY what lobbying is. Legal bribery.

So, what do you call it when they don't give the representatives money and influence them with other means like, I don't know, say... voting influence?

Bribery is the giving or offering of a bribe, which is to persuade by any sort of inducement. It doesn't necessarily revolve around money.

[Drakim]

At 10/16/07 08:14 AM, Gunter45 wrote: Go ahead, keep proving you don't know what lobbying means.

Oh, please, do explain it to me.

I have a vote, you have a vote. That is how democracy works. Everybody is equal. When it comes to a issue like war or economy, I don't overrule you because I have more money or because I'm white or because I have the "right" religion. Our votes are equal of worth.

Now, let's say that I sit on a lot of money, and you don't. That means, I can start lobbying for my opinions, while you can't. This means that the whole idea that everybody in society has an equal say is tossed away. I get to decide more than you because I have money.

[Gunter45]

At 10/17/07 03:02 AM, RedSkunk wrote: Bribery is the giving or offering of a bribe, which is to persuade by any sort of inducement. It doesn't necessarily revolve around money.

But it's the giving of something. Telling somebody to vote a certain way based on information you've gathered doesn't qualify.

[RedSkunk]

At 10/17/07 03:33 AM, Gunter45 wrote:

At 10/17/07 03:02 AM, RedSkunk wrote: Bribery is the giving or offering of a bribe, which is to persuade by any sort of inducement. It doesn't necessarily revolve around money.

But it's the giving of something. Telling somebody to vote a certain way based on information you've gathered doesn't qualify.

Inducement can be a verbal threat of voting for the "other guy." This is just a semantics argument, and you're basically arguing that lobbying isn't bribery because bribery carries with it an illicit connotation. That's an argument leading nowhere, fast.

[Gunter45]

At 10/17/07 03:42 AM, RedSkunk wrote: Inducement can be a verbal threat of voting for the "other guy." This is just a semantics argument, and you're basically arguing that lobbying isn't bribery because bribery carries with it an illicit connotation. That's an argument leading nowhere, fast.

I made no such claim. I said bribery, by definition, requires giving somebody something in exchange for a service. Under that definitive pretext, you still haven't refuted what I said. You're the one bogging this down in semantics, I'm not.

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

You all do realise that NGO's such as Oxfam, the International Red Cross and Child protection charities all lobby congress and the senate right? Are you seriously suggesting that charities are going to effectively bribe the Senate and HoR?

ANYONE can lobby Congress as lobbying is defined as 'To try to influence the thinking of legislators or other public officials for or against a specific cause' (Source). This can be done via effective bribery such as been said already but ALSO by the legitimate use of presenting information to the legislator in hopes of swaying there opinion.

The vast amount of lobbying that takes place in congress is entirely legitimate as out of the god know show many groups that lobby congress, how many do you think can actually afford to buy that jet for the senator? You really think that ' Mothers against Drunken Driving' can afford to pay for a swanky holiday for each of their congressmen and Senators?

Yes there are cases of Big Business and the rich effectively bribing people under the guise of lobbying, but that is not what lobbying is actually about. Lobbying is a legitimate way to get your voice heard and is not just paying money to get your way. And the fact that so many of you seem to think that lobbying is just another example of how corrupt the political system is is rather disturbing.