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No Ted, you can't, and you shouldn't. You vote for your representatives to represent you; if you don't agree with your politicians beliefs, vote for a different one, don't ask one to change his sets of ideals to suit you. That's why we have elections in the first place.

Aren't you open-minded, Ted? Can't you let them have their beliefs the same way you have yours?

I respect your opinion, and if I am coming off as disrespectful to you, then I am terribly sorry.

:Still, in America, as long as you can appeal to the Bible-thumpers, you're fine. The odds of a Muslim winning an election are slim based only on the fact that, in the eyes of the average FOX News viewer, he's the guy who put the planes in the Trade Centers.

So then, what should we do, set a quota in Congress? I don't care about the "odds" of a Muslim winning an election, it's the fact that they can try. Hell, anyone (almost) can run for elected office, even Arnold, and he wasn't even born here.

It's sad that a lot of muslims got shit after 9/11, and they never even tried to pull the "we're victims, give us rights" shit before or even after 9/11. And I respect that. Do you hear anything about Muslims in the US STILL getting shit? I haven't. Maybe it's because they didn't want to make an issue out of it, so it stopped being one. And don't give me any crap about the right-wing media not reporting anything about abuse against Muslims, seeing as how every newspaper I pick up is dripping with liberal bias.

They are entitled to their beliefs. As much as I am, or you are.
What they are not entitled to do, however, is change the country to the way that religion demands it to be. They are not entitled to ban drinking, and gambling, and every sin that "God" commanded. They are not entitled to write their religion on money, and buildings, and refer to it as a source for a political action.
Because it's not. The policy of our country should not be based on the writings of men two millenia our seniors. Besides the fact that it is a wobbly argument in itself, it has been discredited worldwide. It changes it's positions, it allows things that even it comdemns within it's own structure, and it wrongly tries to run nations.

Our politicians are elected to serve the wishes of their constituents. And they are entitled to do that, and only that.

At 8/2/03 12:10 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: They are entitled to their beliefs. As much as I am, or you are.
What they are not entitled to do, however, is change the country to the way that religion demands it to be. They are not entitled to ban drinking, and gambling, and every sin that "God" commanded. They are not entitled to write their religion on money, and buildings, and refer to it as a source for a political action.
Because it's not. The policy of our country should not be based on the writings of men two millenia our seniors. Besides the fact that it is a wobbly argument in itself, it has been discredited worldwide. It changes it's positions, it allows things that even it comdemns within it's own structure, and it wrongly tries to run nations.

Our politicians are elected to serve the wishes of their constituents. And they are entitled to do that, and only that.

I agree completly. However, if a politician is motivated by his Religon to vote for a ban against abortion, alcohol, whatever, then it is his or her right to do so.

But let's be serious for one moment, how many "religous" politicans haven't already damned themselves to their own standards of hell through their own corruption? (hehe, I thought I'd throw that in there)

At 7/29/03 02:51 AM, luckoftheirish wrote: for the last time thats scotland!, dear god

anyways accepting gays is wrong, because homosexuality is wrong, it wasnt in the cards when this world came together,

Apparently, your god didn't create Native American Indians either. Should we despise them too?

a man havin a pole and a woman having a hole wasnt an accident, not only do we now accept and condone gays, we also encourage them to be gay, we even make life easier by accomodating to the gays, does no one see a flaw in this?

Not unless it's for sex. There's no vagina in your hand yet you wank off plenty, do you not?

call me old fashioned if you must be this is all fucked up, you make the decision to be gay,

You decided to be hetero?

you stick with the consequences of being mocked and what else not,

Right, like if you're black and all the white kids call you racist names you stick with the consequences of being black?

Soon Animals are going to become gay and before you know it. the central park zoo will become the central park zoo for gay animals if homosexuality continues.

Uhm... it's already been observed, note dand documented that animals engage in homosexuality when they are in heat. Some, however do seem to remain homosexual and even build nests for their offpsring (though they can't have any).

So it is natural.

I'm siding with Ted on this one. If a politician decides to vote against Abortion, it should be based on research and reports that would prove abortion dangerous AND the views of the state/district which elected him. We forget that it is the job of the Senate and the House of Representatives eleted officials to use the views of their state/district as guiding in legislation, and not their personal religious views. They were elected by the people to represent the people, and surely Indianapolis, which is now the homosexual capitol of the United States, does not agree that same-sex marriage should be illegal.

Is homosexuals getting their own school like Jews getting their own country?

Hmm.

I would say so. They're given a place of their own after (among other hundreds of years of bad things) they are gassed, shot, burned alive, frozen to death, and basically hunted down all across eastern Europe and Russia.

And gay students are getting one because they are being tormented to a much greater degree than is acceptable or tolerable. As well as being killed.

While the Israel-Homosexual School link does make it seem acceptable in one light, it is still not what we should be doing. We should be teaching tolerance, as I've said so many, many times before. We can't give people the idea that they can just form a "club for our group only" as it would seem, and avoid having to work with others to spread acceptance and tolerance.

Which we continue to do. But it's proving a very slow process, and until people do accept gays (at least enough to not beat them to death or dance at their funeral) we need this.

At 8/2/03 11:17 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: Which we continue to do. But it's proving a very slow process, and until people do accept gays (at least enough to not beat them to death or dance at their funeral) we need this.

I'll agree that it's a short-term solution to a long-term issue, and we're going to do the best we can to make sure these schools aren't needed permenantly.

At 8/2/03 01:33 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Is homosexuals getting their own school like Jews getting their own country?

If you mean that they're both bad ideas, then yes. Think of all the problems that we wouldn't have in the Middle East if a Jewish state was never established. I support Israel's right to exist, just as I would support the gay school's right to remain open, but I think it would be much better if the school never opened in the first place. We fought racial discrimination by forcing white kids to deal with black kids in their schools. We can't hope to promote acceptance of homosexuals by isolating them from other people. Even if it's by choice, it sends the message that straight people don't have to accept them because if they don't, they'll just go away. History has proven the it is often necessary to fight for your rights. You can't hide from your problems. You have to face them.

By the way, I was implying that both were a bad idea but I think that everyone caught that.

i think that the school should be opened but i don't think that the students should be encouraged to be homosexuals. the school itself is a good idea because it would let the students have a place to further their education without being in danger of physical harm to themselves.

i could see new york opening a school for retards so they grow up in a safe enviroment that will cater to their learning neeeds. but being a fag doesn't make you any more different than any other human, you just have abnormal sexual prefernces. weather the preferences are voluntary or involuntary isn't important. what's important is that people aren't sheltered and cuddled when difficult situations arise. they need to grow some balls andfight back against the intolerant homophobes or curl up in a ball and take it like a pussy, but they sure as hell don't deserve to be seperated from the rest of society.

No matter how many balls they grow, a person can't stand up to a nation that contains people that would assault and kill them simply for being who they are. A person can stand up all they like to the teasing and the bullying, but they don't have to.
It is the requirement of the school to provide a safe learning enviroment, and because they have failed to do that elsewhere, they will do that here by eliminating the problem. As always, the homophobes.

At 8/3/03 07:37 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: No matter how many balls they grow, a person can't stand up to a nation that contains people that would assault and kill them simply for being who they are. A person can stand up all they like to the teasing and the bullying, but they don't have to.
It is the requirement of the school to provide a safe learning enviroment, and because they have failed to do that elsewhere, they will do that here by eliminating the problem. As always, the homophobes.

True. We need to take this as the first sign that homophobia has gone too far in the United States. Too far. Now is the time we should all be looking inside ourselves and thinking about why, exactly, we're making their lives hell. Oh, Ted, I love the sig by the way, the Shaw quote is great.

Does anybody know if people are taking special precautions to protect this school from hate crimes and such? I live in a rather red-necky part of California, and there are people I've met who would be just itiching for an oppurtunity to "get 'em all at once" so to speak. New York State probably has it's fair share of homophobic hate-crime committers.

It took a brave (well, extremely stupid) group of people to kill that student because he was gay, and I just hope that because the oppurtunities are going to be more readily available to hatemongers, that the school is taking all the proper precautions.

At 8/3/03 07:37 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: No matter how many balls they grow, a person can't stand up to a nation that contains people that would assault and kill them simply for being who they are. A person can stand up all they like to the teasing and the bullying, but they don't have to.
It is the requirement of the school to provide a safe learning enviroment, and because they have failed to do that elsewhere, they will do that here by eliminating the problem. As always, the homophobes.

sure if the school does nothing, then no no matter how tough the fags are they won't be able to cope, but you enforce the penalties for harassment and the problems will go away. the answer isn't isolating them, they must be exposed to those that hate them, but that doesn't mean you let violence go unpunished.

Yeah I heard about this...I'll just say it again, this school is segregated and will not help mutual acceptance and understanding. It will widen differences.

Yes, n0g0d, they should be punishing the assaults and the murders, and the many things done against homosexuals, but unfortunately, they aren't.
The school system and the law is so ineffectual that they hardly make an effort to do so. They claim that they are "doing their best", but their best would be reporting each and every one of these lawbreakers to the police. Hopefully down there you've got sufficient punishments for kids that age.

well if the rules aren't being enforced then the problem is not the rules it's those in charge of enforcing them, which means that if you fix this one problem, you no longer need a new scholl, because now you have a safer enviroment.

At 8/4/03 04:40 PM, n0g0d wrote: well if the rules aren't being enforced then the problem is not the rules it's those in charge of enforcing them, which means that if you fix this one problem, you no longer need a new scholl, because now you have a safer enviroment.

So you're suggesting, much like the case with segregation and KKK-style hatred, we convince most of the United States legislative government, along with the Supreme Court and a vast majority of American citizens that pay attention to only their views, that they are all wrong and should stop hating people? You realize it took over 200 years in America alone to get African-Americans to the level they are at now, and we still have some work to do on that one.

But wait a minute. How could it be a high school for Gays? Most people dont even realise, let alone aknowlege that there gay until there WAY past high school. Hee, there also a question about locker rooms arent there?

At 8/4/03 11:01 PM, Renegade51 wrote: But wait a minute. How could it be a high school for Gays? Most people dont even realise, let alone aknowlege that there gay until there WAY past high school. Hee, there also a question about locker rooms arent there?

Is this like people not noticing they're straight until way after high school? What's to say someone couldn't find out they were gay during the high school years?

At 8/4/03 11:24 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Is this like people not noticing they're straight until way after high school? What's to say someone couldn't find out they were gay during the high school years?

I'm not saying that some people dont find out, but MOST people dont come to terms with who that are until there adult years. Alot of people would refuse to beleive it, its dumb yes, but in todays world you get made fun of for being differnt. Anyone who where to even THINK they where gay in high school would supress it and try to act like everyone else. Thats just the way things are now and its stupid

While this is somewhat true, more and more students are choosing to stand up for their beliefs and lead open, homosexual lives. This is one step forward, but we can't keep walking until the homophobes and others unwilling to accept this move forward as well.

If we make homophobes believe what we believe then we are no better than them. They are using the same freedom of speech right as homosexuals, and as much as I disagree with Homophobes and racists we have to grant them that right. I wish they would see the errors of their ways though.

They have the right to freedom of speech, but not the right to harass, torment, assault, discriminate, and other things that they constantly do to homosexual students.
They have the right to express their opinion, but not to use it to violate the structures of the US. Equality and freedom are things that these "opinions" are denying these gay people from.
And logic is on the side of tolerance. Society has become increasingly liberal and tolerant with each generation. We are supporting tolerance, which is also a basis of a good person.
Homophobic people violate the rights of homosexuals by their discriminations, by their actions, by their votes on political movements which unfairly repress homosexuals, and laws written in bad taste and poor logic which view homosexuals in a negative connotation.
And a person who would violate the rights of another person doesn't deserve those rights themself.