Environmental Soapbox

[Dracorna]

Ok, Its me yet again. I am bored out of my mind so I decided to take a few minutes to complain about the environment.

How can people go on about their daily lives completely carefree and oblivious to what we do to our environment. I see people just drop their trash on the ground and walk off not caring. The worst part is I see COPS do it. I see people who toss their grabage all together, not separated into recycling and non. It drive me nuts to think about it.

Not only do we harm out habits but as such we also harm ourselves, yet people still insist (especially in America) that we don't need to worry about conserving things. Or those that do only do it when it makes them look good in the public eyes.

SUVs, Hummers...Everyone wants one, but they are horrible on gas, Don't have to meet FES (Federal Emmision Standards) and are notorious in accidents.

Anyway...thats all I care to say for now. Please feel free to disagree with me or agree. But please do it in a mature fashion. And if you want a debate, feel free to start one...I love debates, especially over the Environment. But if you want to debate, debate facts.

[Commander-K25]

SUVs don't have to meet emissions standards?

Then why do they have to be inspected and tested like every other vehicle on the road?

[Dracorna]

At 7/27/03 08:18 PM, Commander-K25 wrote: SUVs don't have to meet emissions standards?

Then why do they have to be inspected and tested like every other vehicle on the road?

They have to be inspected only according to state laws...Like in Florida there are no inspections. SUVs are classified as trucks due to weight as far as emmissions standards go.

Also as far as the tests go there is usually a double standard which they live up to. Much higher than say my Accord.

[TheShrike]

*Tosses his cigarette, stomps it out, and walks over to this thread*

I agree. Pollution is bad and so is littering. SUVs are terrible gas-hogs.

[JMHX]

I've said it in every single environmental thread to come across this forum in a long time -- I'm against any vehicle which takes half of the gasoline on the market but only makes up one quarter of the automobile market.

[Dracorna]

At 7/28/03 03:22 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: I've said it in every single environmental thread to come across this forum in a long time -- I'm against any vehicle which takes half of the gasoline on the market but only makes up one quarter of the automobile market.

Well said...I think those things should be done away with. Why does a soccer mom need a vehicle powerful enout to haul a small horse trailer? Why does any City person? And even in the country there are less SUVs than Pick ups and Jeeps, both of which make sense.

SUVs are designed as off Road rec Vehicles...I've never known of anyone that owned one to use it to that end. Its so annoying.

[Painbringer]

At 7/27/03 08:02 PM, Dracorna wrote:

How can people go on about their daily lives completely carefree and oblivious to what we do to our environment. I see people just drop their trash on the ground and walk off not caring. The worst part is I see COPS do it. I see people who toss their grabage all together, not separated into recycling and non. It drive me nuts to think about it.

Well, we live in a time where people choose the fate of what they throw away - It is the present. Now my mom thinks that people are payed to sort garbage at some processing facility, but I read that everything that goes in the trash gets trucked up north to some landfill. Now if only recycling was decided at the facility, rather than by us, then things could be better.

Not only do we harm out habits but as such we also harm ourselves, yet people still insist (especially in America) that we don't need to worry about conserving things. Or those that do only do it when it makes them look good in the public eyes.

They say the future is somebody else's problem, but I say the future already began in 2001 and we should do something about it.

SUVs, Hummers...Everyone wants one, but they are horrible on gas, Don't have to meet FES (Federal Emmision Standards) and are notorious in accidents.

Yeah, they are the Cadilacs of our time. I'm kind of surprised that gas guzlers would even be popular in the future. If anything, I would like to drive one of those new fuel cell cars.

Anyway...thats all I care to say for now. Please feel free to disagree with me or agree. But please do it in a mature fashion. And if you want a debate, feel free to start one...I love debates, especially over the Environment. But if you want to debate, debate facts.

I don't know about debates, I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

[Dracorna]

Ok, Lets see...First allow me to clarify that the recycling program (as well as general trash collecting and sorting) is up to the individual city or community. They try to do it as cost effectively as possible. But despite "best efforts" America typically recycles about 10-15% of the wastestream MAX.

Case in point here in NYC we had to eliminate most of the program for a few months to save money (in truth we wound up spending more because of the added trash). We just brought it back but now it only gets picked up about twice per month.

[JMHX]

It's all the fault of the Land Rover, that evil vehicle started it all.

[FUNKbrs]

I hate SUV's, but I still think recycling is a bunch of crap. I mean, why recycle today what we can still recycle with much more efficient technology tommorrow?

But back to SUV bashing, I hate those damn things. They're basically minivans with truck chasis. Although I personally think running out of oil would be great, because it would SERIOUSLY help promote clean transportation, SUVs just suck. I drive a Neon, and I can fit a 12 piece drumset, a monitor, and a mixer in there. Who the hell has to carry more than that?! It's all a bunch of wasted space for the lazy bastards who just don't know how to load up a vehicle properly.

[Dracorna]

At 7/28/03 09:50 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: I hate SUV's, but I still think recycling is a bunch of crap. I mean, why recycle today what we can still recycle with much more efficient technology tommorrow?

But back to SUV bashing, I hate those damn things. They're basically minivans with truck chasis. Although I personally think running out of oil would be great, because it would SERIOUSLY help promote clean transportation, SUVs just suck. I drive a Neon, and I can fit a 12 piece drumset, a monitor, and a mixer in there. Who the hell has to carry more than that?! It's all a bunch of wasted space for the lazy bastards who just don't know how to load up a vehicle properly.

And if we don't recycle today, where will we put it all? as it is all the dumps in the US are closing...We are incinerating more trash, which means we will burn the plastics too...Do I even need to tell you what happens when we burn plastics?

[misterx2000]

At 7/29/03 12:58 AM, Dracorna wrote: And if we don't recycle today, where will we put it all? as it is all the dumps in the US are closing...We are incinerating more trash, which means we will burn the plastics too...Do I even need to tell you what happens when we burn plastics?

Seems like the only way so far is to use biodegradable plastics. They do exist, but are obviously costlier. Apart from using trash compactors.

Or just lessen plastic use altogether. Whatever happened to the edible fast food containers, like fries cartons made out of potatoes? They'd be like ice cream cones.

[TheTio]

This waste now care later attitude that most of America (and much of the world) holds is mainly because we believe that the repurcussions for these actions will not be felt by anyone except our great grandchilds children...

Too few of us realise that the backlash from our actions are coming right now, record high temperatures occuring again and again...erratic weather conditions and already the polar caps are showing signs of weakening

This is not a problem we can wait and hope that in the future they will create a "Fix the world" raygun, its not going to happen, change has to happen and it has to happen now, personally I take the bus and I recycle

I am disgusted at anyone who has a SUV that has never seen a single spatter of mud and get truly pissed off at people I see throw away non biodegradables

[misterx2000]

TheTio is right, it's just pure selfishness for anyone who doesn't care.

[TheShrike]

Heh... SUVs aren't the only problem. The unwillingness of the auto industry to let go of their cushy ties with the oil biz is the real problem. We can make solar-powered cars. We can make electric cars. We can even make cars that can burn Hydrogen and Oxygen (exhaust=water).

[JMHX]

At 7/29/03 04:07 AM, TheShrike wrote: Heh... SUVs aren't the only problem. The unwillingness of the auto industry to let go of their cushy ties with the oil biz is the real problem. We can make solar-powered cars. We can make electric cars. We can even make cars that can burn Hydrogen and Oxygen (exhaust=water).

True. As long as the oil company is choking the life out of these alternative fuel sources, we're not going to see any major progress in the automobile industry for a long time. Hopefully some major brand of hydrogen automobile will come out and actually have a chance to be seen before the major carmakers stamp it out.

[TheShrike]

At 7/29/03 04:35 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Hopefully some major brand of hydrogen automobile will come out and actually have a chance to be seen before the major carmakers stamp it out.

See, that's the problem. They already have the technology. BMW and Mercedes have already made several prototypes, along with a slew of American and Japanese companies. The only thing in the way is the dependancy of the oil companies.

[phantasm93]

At 7/29/03 05:03 AM, TheShrike wrote:
See, that's the problem. They already have the technology. BMW and Mercedes have already made several prototypes, along with a slew of American and Japanese companies. The only thing in the way is the dependancy of the oil companies.

From Reuter's News Agency (italics mine):

07-22-03 In his last State of the Union address, the president sold Americans on the promise of hydrogen fuel cell cars, announcing to some fanfare a $1.5 billion spending package to spur development. Many environmentalists were nonplussed at the news. Some were even downright cynical. Now, writing in the journal Science, two energy experts -- one from Carnegie Mellon University, the other from Berkeley -- have joined the chorus of critics who question the president's vision, noting that most of the hydrogen would likely be derived from coal and oil. Moreover, the scientists stress that off-the-shelf automotive technologies exist that could reduce air pollution at less than 100th the cost of hydrogen cars. "Hydrogen cars," one of the researchers says, "are a poor short-term strategy, and it's not even clear that they are a good idea in the long term."

[n0g0d]

non of your arguements actually talk about the enviroment, they are mainly about concervation of resources and cleanliness.

sure it's a great idea to not toss trash out the window of your car, but it doesn't harm the eniviroment to any measurable degree, it just makes your city look like shit.

if a person wishes to drive an suv in the city then more power to him, the emmissions are negligable and really cause little harm to the enviroment, beyond annoying smog in the city. actually SUVs are our ticket to clean and efficient fuels and motors, because the faster they burn off the gasoline, the faster we run out and now alternative fuels can make way in the market.

[misterx2000]

At 8/4/03 09:34 AM, n0g0d wrote: non of your arguements actually talk about the enviroment, they are mainly about concervation of resources and cleanliness.

sure it's a great idea to not toss trash out the window of your car, but it doesn't harm the eniviroment to any measurable degree, it just makes your city look like shit.

if a person wishes to drive an suv in the city then more power to him, the emmissions are negligable and really cause little harm to the enviroment, beyond annoying smog in the city. actually SUVs are our ticket to clean and efficient fuels and motors, because the faster they burn off the gasoline, the faster we run out and now alternative fuels can make way in the market.

Truly a refreshing but strange logic. However alternative fuels aren't ready to totally replace fossil fuels yet...so if that day comes too soon, we're screwed.

And car emissions aren't negligible, they cause harm to people when inhaled. Thousands die from related diseases (e.g. asthma) each year. Where I live, 3000.
And I hope you've heard of acid rain, which kills fish and trees, and damages buildings.