What to do for Homeless?

[Ted-Easton]

This is to continue the poorly named "Shooting hobos legal" thread.

Ok, to get the ball floating, let's take this in steps.
First, what is currently being done across the world for them, and which method is best? How can we improve upon it? Change it? What is the ideal solution to homelessness (a viable one, please).

[JMHX]

We've recently been attempting, in the United States at least, and Indiana specifically, to reach out to the homeless and see if we can find them some job training and things of the like through...ah, the name of the mission eludes me for the moment. However, as was said in the other thread, some homeless people, given the chance to work, would decline. This was the major problem in my Prototype Homeless Plan I was running over for Mock Congress. Yep, I'm one of those nerds. ANYWAY, the situation is complicated because, recently, a lot of jobs have been laid off, and I honestly believe that some of the people out on the street would rather be there than suffer through the long lines to get checks from unemployment.

It just comes down to the fact that you can lead a Ted to a goat, but you can't make him love it.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/24/03 10:39 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: First, what is currently being done across the world for them, and which method is best? How can we improve upon it? Change it? What is the ideal solution to homelessness (a viable one, please).

Well, i like the rehab method. Most homeless pople are on drugs, and they need to get off thembefore they can hold down a job. They then need an education, and get to work and help the economy.

[JMHX]

At 7/24/03 11:25 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/24/03 10:39 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: First, what is currently being done across the world for them, and which method is best? How can we improve upon it? Change it? What is the ideal solution to homelessness (a viable one, please).

Well, i like the rehab method. Most homeless pople are on drugs, and they need to get off thembefore they can hold down a job. They then need an education, and get to work and help the economy.

Now I think that's a huge generalization to say that most homeless people are on drugs. I don't think drugs would be as much of a problem as hygeine and medical care that they would need before gaining job training and entering the working class. Are there any actual figures on how prevalent the drug problem is among the homeless community? I figure that'd be a pretty hard one to poll.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/24/03 11:29 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Now I think that's a huge generalization to say that most homeless people are on drugs. I don't think drugs would be as much of a problem as hygeine and medical care that they would need before gaining job training and entering the working class. Are there any actual figures on how prevalent the drug problem is among the homeless community? I figure that'd be a pretty hard one to poll.

Is it a huge generalisation, but it is a huge and true generalisation. If not hard drugs (cocaine, herion etc.) most of them are alchoholic. Hygene is also a huge problem for them - sleeping on the streets isn't clean. There aren't many figures as it is really hard to poll such a thing.

[Ravens-Grin]

At 7/24/03 11:25 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

:Well, i like the rehab method. Most homeless pople are on drugs, and they need to get off thembefore they can hold down a job. They then need an education, and get to work and help the economy.

I'm not sure if it is drugs, but it is definetely a mental problem that keeps them on the streets. I have a rather cut and dry feeling about things. If they can't provide for themselves, too bad if they are over 18. If they are addicted to hard drugs, too bad they fucked up. If they dropped out of school and didn't continue their education, too bad.

There are many options for a person to keep hygeine up and get a job, but it may be rather crude. The first thing they do is steal SOAP, yes SOAP. Then the next day they steal BOTTLED WATER or just use the water from fountains. After that, they go to McDonald's to get a job and FREE FOOD. Now they have their hygeine up, got food, and will be able to pay rent.

[Ted-Easton]

McDonalds doesn't give food to it's employees.
Not here in Canada, at least.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/24/03 11:50 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: McDonalds doesn't give food to it's employees.
Not here in Canada, at least.

I think the idea is that the employess steal the 'food.'

[Ted-Easton]

Well, that's not something we want to encourage.
They get 50% off the price anyways, so I would think they could afford something.

[Ravens-Grin]

At 7/24/03 11:50 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: McDonalds doesn't give food to it's employees.
Not here in Canada, at least.

At closing time, don't you get the left-over food or at least go into the kitchen and make a quick Big-Mac or something?

[FUNKbrs]

I slowly feel like I'm becoming a Nazi because of my honest sentiments on threads like this one. Maybe I'm just a pitiless bastard, but in the US, there is no excuse for homelessness. there is enough physical indoor space for every man woman and child in the US to sleep indoors, and enough clean water and cheap food to feed and bathe them all as well. If you live on the street, it's because you've pissed off every single person who might have pity on you. If a friend of mine was homeless, I would let him shower at my apartment and sleep on my floor, no problem. Homeless people tend to be fairly well connected, but yet they can't find anyone to do this for them? It's very clear to me that they have forgone the many government and private sheltering and employment programs for in lieu of their life on the street. For example, JobCore is a free government service that provides housing and technical training for high school graduates. And lets face it, in the US, there is no excuse for not graduating highschool. So then, in this land of opportunity, why are so many homeless? My answer is simple. The US has the richest homeless in the world. In this country you can live just as well on the street as you can if you work at McDonalds. Sleeping on a park bench isn't all that bad, when you have a shitload of Salvation Army blankets to do it on, and a belly full of free food and cheap booze bought with someone else's money. I used to know a guy who would hitch hike down to the florida keys every winter, and back to CA every summer. I wish I could live a life like that, gratis the pity of suckers.

My solution to this problem is this: No pity for the homeless. They had their chance, and they fucked it up. I don't say shoot them, but being a worthless pile of shit should not be a pleasant experience.

[bumcheekcity]

You aren't a pitiless bastard FUNK, but remember, some of the homeless are ust guys out on their luck. Surely everyone deserves a second-chance?

[Ted-Easton]

I say a more humane solution (from FUNK's direction), would be to have a group that can give them a job. Sweeping the streets, or shooting pidgeons, anything. They refuse it, then it's their own choice to remain homeless.
Then they're undeserving of aid.

And McDonalds workers aren't allowed to take home the food at the end of the day, but that's more of a little-known fact than a rule.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/24/03 06:31 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: I say a more humane solution (from FUNK's direction), would be to have a group that can give them a job. Sweeping the streets, or shooting pidgeons, anything. They refuse it, then it's their own choice to remain homeless.
Then they're undeserving of aid.

I agree with that. People should do some work for a living, but we sahouldn't forsake help to the homeless. It's the unemployed that get me pissed off. I'm not taling about the people that have just been made redundant but some people will sit on the dole for years on end, never get a job and just suck of taxpayers money.

And McDonalds workers aren't allowed to take home the food at the end of the day, but that's more of a little-known fact than a rule.

It isn't actually defined as food.

[JMHX]

The fact is, though, there aren't a lot of open jobs at the moment to put the homeless in. I mean, jobs, even simple ones, take job training, which takes time and money, which makes it less lucrative for the employer, when he has someone from Mexico willing to do the job for cheaper. This is what was touched on in the immigration thread.

Homeless millions: symptoms.
Capitalism: disease.

Cure the disease, not the symptoms.

[JMHX]

At 7/24/03 11:17 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Homeless millions: symptoms.
Capitalism: disease.

Cure the disease, not the symptoms.

Well, we'll just ask President Bush to get rid of American Capitalism.

[Explodapop]

I agree with crossbreed, but it is impossible. Duh...

Someone will always fall over the edge, no matter how a country is ruled. Let them fall, I say. No good to grab their hand and fall with them. I agree 100% with FUNK. There should not be any mercy for stupidety (as long as you don't have an illness of some sort). You stand with your own acts. But it is a whole different with homeless children, they should get support and help.

[Ted-Easton]

It's completely possible that a homeless person didn't get there from stupidity, but from extenuating(sp) circumstances at their previous employer.
Workplace tension, layoffs, personal hatreds, etc, that a person simply cannot help.
And to deny any aid to people once they're on the street is rather harsh. No matter how much you don't like capitalism, or whatever, there should always be something for them.
A work placement program, a free training program, anything. Otherwise, we're telling millions of people that "Too bad. You had your chance, now you're dead."

[misterx2000]

At 7/25/03 08:31 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: A work placement program, a free training program, anything. Otherwise, we're telling millions of people that "Too bad. You had your chance, now you're dead."

I was about to say the training program idea. It lets them back into mainstream society and creates workers!

[JMHX]

I'm all for allowing aid to the homeless, as long as it does not hinder our ability to also give aid to those on welfare and hanging on the poverty line. Our first objective is to try and slow down or STOP homelessness, then work on reducing it.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/25/03 07:51 AM, -PZY- wrote: Someone will always fall over the edge, no matter how a country is ruled. Let them fall, I say. No good to grab their hand and fall with them. I agree 100% with FUNK. There should not be any mercy for stupidety (as long as you don't have an illness of some sort). You stand with your own acts. But it is a whole different with homeless children, they should get support and help.

Stupidity isn't a crime, neither is failing. People who are homeless need jobs. Not handouts though.

[Luxury-Yacht]

We should forget tax cuts that only make our economy worse and use some of that tax money to improve welfare.

[MK60-Blackhawk]

At 7/24/03 10:39 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: This is to continue the poorly named "Shooting hobos legal" thread.

Ok, to get the ball floating, let's take this in steps.
First, what is currently being done across the world for them, and which method is best? How can we improve upon it? Change it? What is the ideal solution to homelessness (a viable one, please).

I say that if we can find some low cost way to house them then do so, otherwise let them starve. Also if we build them homes and the dont want a job then what? The cant pay rent o they become homeless again.

Thats my idea

H*R

[Alejandro1]

At 7/24/03 06:31 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: I say a more humane solution (from FUNK's direction), would be to have a group that can give them a job. Sweeping the streets, or shooting pidgeons, anything. They refuse it, then it's their own choice to remain homeless.

Who would be paying for these boondoggle jobs? If it was a private organization like the salvation army, I wouldnt have any problem with it. If you want the government to pick up the tag, forget it; we already have too many social workers that put a drag on our economy. In times like these, we dont need extra weight holding us back.

[Alejandro1]

At 7/27/03 04:03 PM, Rancorman wrote: We should forget tax cuts that only make our economy worse and use some of that tax money to improve welfare.

And encourage people not to work? I think that tax money would be better off in other programs, maybe a prescription drug program to help pay for outrageously high drug prices.

[damndifwedordont]

i really actually think that the homeless should be put on a trial and if they are just piles of shit then they get deported to china or mexico to be used in sweatshops or be tested on government programs for pills and stuff or whatever but if the homeless person is tried a non pile of shit then that person should be given the right amount of cash and living quarters if the person becomes homeless again then they can say hello to china if the homeless person is an immigrant then proper living quarters ect ect..... if the homeless person is a child then adoption or ophanageing(i think thats the same thing....)is in order

there ya go my idea now flame me about it

[Dobio]

This may sound harsh, but I have no symphaty for a person who is homeless, who isn't even trying to get a job.

If you are living off welfare checks, NOT going to school or working, then you don't deserve the money. It's just laziness and pride. If you've got too much pride to not admit that you are desperate, and hand in a resume at a fast food place, then you aren't being pushed enough. I don't see why taxpayers should have to spend their money paying some guy to lie in bed all day, not looking for work, because he dropped out of highschool, and can't get a job.

There are jobs out there. They may not be in your city, or whatever. But, they are out there.

Now, being homeless is probably one of the worst feelings you can have in your life, but once again, if you are working, and maybe you have to go on welfare, just to get your feet back up, then that's not that bad, that's what welfare is for. Single mothers, with children, and people who have had a stroke of bad luck, and have to start over from scratch, due to layoffs etc...

Places like Habitat Homes, etc...They help a lot, building houses for people who can't afford it otherwise. We don't have a huge homeless problem here up in Prince George, but it's out there.

I'm just hoping that there won't be a big problem with homeless people, but by the way people are cutting jobs...I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Commander-K25]

Homelessness is a problem that can only be helped by a change in society, not in government. Welfare checks only worsen the problems by addicting poor people to government aid. In doing this, they perpetuate the cycle of poverty, rather than solve it.

Society is what must change. People and communities must begin to care again, to want to help people. Too often today people look at problem and say "Somebody should do something", and then they look to government and demand that they "solve it". When people look at a problem such as this, they need to realize that they are somebody and that through charities and their communities, they can solve anything far better than government bureaucracy can.

Government's place is not to make sure there are no poor people. That's an impossible goal and government's involvement will only worsen the situation.

What we need is for society to care once again, rather than look to government to care for us.

That, perhaps, more than anything else is the prime tenet of conservatism.

[Slizor]

When people look at a problem such as this, they need to realize that they are somebody and that through charities and their communities, they can solve anything far better than government bureaucracy can.

I decided to highlight this bit because it was the only bit which we can actually look at. Have you ever read George Orwell's Down and Out in London and Paris? It is an account of what things were like when it was charities put in charge of the welfare of the poor. It didn't work, people didn't reach rock bottom they spring back up, they stayed there.

In countries where the Government is given a bigger role in helping the poor there is less poverty, there is less crime, there is more social mobility, in short a better society.