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Here's one for you pro-gun people. Guns create terrorists.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/05/08_poster.html

Wow, you anti-gun people have a lot of trust in your respective governments, don't you? I guess you just assume there will always be an honest police officer to assist you when you are being attacked by say, I don't know, a crooked police officer? People without guns are weaker (militarily) than those with guns, its a tactical rule of engagement. So those with guns WILL ALWAYS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS FACT. You have two choices: Arm yourself with the best weapons you can, or accept the fact that you are just a bitch, and when someone with better weapons than you tells you to do something, you'll just take it like the bitch that you are.

Guns are a fact. They're not going away. Laws can't stop smugglers, or noone would do drugs or cheat on their taxes. Ultimately the responsibility for your protection lies on you, not a cop. Honor your responsibility to yourself and to your loved ones. Get a gun and use it responsibly.

At 7/26/03 08:03 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Here's one for you pro-gun people. Guns create terrorists.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/05/08_poster.html

Bull. He is not as bad as a sallah mallah middle easterner.

i was reading thru some of the earlier posts and for all u pro gun-contol who think a police officer is right around the corner as ur house is being broken into, your wrong i live in a small town and the nearest police station is a good 20-30 miles away and the nearest cop to dispatch is a 350 poun trafic cop with donut powder on his lip.oh and those of u who think crime dosent happen in a rual area your wrong. my friend had his car stolen not long ago.and a cop didnt show up till the next day.and where did every one get the idea that only a burglar would break into ur house.how about a convict running from police who is looking for a hostage or a serial killer who likes to kill ppl in there sleep. or mabey a rapest.like the one where a man broke in to a house boat,tied a man and his wife up with electrical cord then raped his wife in front of him killed them both and torched the boat.o ya he did it all with a knife.

There are exceptions to any rules and laws. However, we can't stop considering one line of action because two or three people may slip by even with it in place. There is not a law that can honestly be proclaimed to stop 100% of anything it's intended to stop. Marijuana is illegal? Grow some of that knockoff "herbal grass" that's sold on Herbal Smoke Shop. Always will there be exceptions like this.

At 7/27/03 12:36 AM, 70TA wrote:

Bull. He is not as bad as a sallah mallah middle easterner.

Yes he is, he blew up babies because Congress tried to ban fire arms.^_^

Wow funkbrs. Are you sure you aren't one of those people
with a gun that tells people what to do? Lighten up and stop being so paranoid. This isn't some African warzone country. And on gun regulations, rifles and handguns, I think, are justifiable, though less handguns, but no civilian should be able to legally buy automatic weapons.
They are overkill for hunting and too dangerous for anyone but the police and military to possess.

At 7/27/03 05:41 PM, adrshepard wrote: Wow funkbrs. Are you sure you aren't one of those people
with a gun that tells people what to do? Lighten up and stop being so paranoid. This isn't some African warzone country. And on gun regulations, rifles and handguns, I think, are justifiable, though less handguns, but no civilian should be able to legally buy automatic weapons.
They are overkill for hunting and too dangerous for anyone but the police and military to possess.

You got me right on the nose on that one. Yeah, I think people who don't have guns lack a basic understanding of social power structure. Who leads the pack? The biggest, meanest, strongest dog. Who runs the world? The country with the biggest, meanest, strongest arsenal. This rule applies to individuals as well. Only in society, money is just as much a part of a person's arsenal as a gun is. But just as no soldier would go into battle wearing a helmet but carrying no gun, people shouldn't assume their wallets are protection enough to stop those with violent intent from harming them. Guns aren't THE answer, but they are AN answer. Not every crime can be prevented through proper use of firearms, but quite a few can. Isn't it worth having a gun, if you know it makes your voice for peace louder?

So I guess the next question is, if you see me mugged on the street, would you help or save your bullets in this militarized zone.

That depends, what are you being mugged with?

At 7/27/03 05:28 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Yes he is, he blew up babies because Congress tried to ban fire arms.^_^

Hmm, well that's kinda not right. You see, they were innocent bystanders. Tim's objective was to destroy a gov't building, and he did. People died, and that sucked. Tim does not hate Americans, or white people, unlike most terrorists whose main goal in life is to make us as miserable as possible. That's the difference my friend. What you said about babies throws off what really went down.

He knew that there was a day care center yet he still blew up that building and the children within. All of that for his precious guns.

At 7/27/03 10:08 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

At 7/27/03 05:41 PM, adrshepard wrote: Wow funkbrs. Are you sure you aren't one of those people
with a gun that tells people what to do? Lighten up and stop being so paranoid. This isn't some African warzone country. And on gun regulations, rifles and handguns, I think, are justifiable, though less handguns, but no civilian should be able to legally buy automatic weapons.
They are overkill for hunting and too dangerous for anyone but the police and military to possess.

You got me right on the nose on that one. Yeah, I think people who don't have guns lack a basic understanding of social power structure. Who leads the pack? The biggest, meanest, strongest dog.

Or perhaps you don't understand the human social power structure, we're not dogs y'know (although some people look similar.)

people shouldn't assume their wallets are protection enough to stop those with violent intent from harming them.

The way to stop crimes is to stop producing criminals. Criminals are produced by a combination of factors, the main one being poverty. Thus if you get rid of poverty you will dramatically reduce crime.

Isn't it worth having a gun, if you know it makes your voice for peace louder?

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

At 7/28/03 10:43 AM, Slizor wrote: The way to stop crimes is to stop producing criminals. Criminals are produced by a combination of factors, the main one being poverty. Thus if you get rid of poverty you will dramatically reduce crime.

That means crime will continue to run rampent in our society. Poverty is an unbeatable enemy, just ask LBJ; he bankrupted our government trying to fight it.

At 7/28/03 12:41 PM, alejandro1 wrote:

At 7/28/03 10:43 AM, Slizor wrote: The way to stop crimes is to stop producing criminals. Criminals are produced by a combination of factors, the main one being poverty. Thus if you get rid of poverty you will dramatically reduce crime.

That means crime will continue to run rampent in our society. Poverty is an unbeatable enemy, just ask LBJ; he bankrupted our government trying to fight it.

Greed is a big factor too. It is the ppl who frauds, cheat on their taxes, etc. Although this is not directly hurtful towards the public, it is inderectly, think yourself.

It is a lot of non-armed and non physical crime out there, mainly because greed.

And I would say that greed is even more unbeatable than poverty.

That means crime will continue to run rampent in our society. Poverty is an unbeatable enemy, just ask LBJ; he bankrupted our government trying to fight it.

That's because he didn't raise taxes enough. Hmmm, would you say that Bush (current) or Reagan "bankrupted our government"?

oh, get off it. Higher taxes solve nothing. While I do agree that the only real way to stop crime is to have a culture that abhors it, as opposed to just oppresses it, guns are a major inhibiting factor to violent crime, if possessed by the victim. Would you rob someone if you KNEW FOR A FACT that they would blow your head clean off? I think not.

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

let me point this out .what did we do to osama bin ladden? nothing, and he has made numerous terreristic attacks on our country. by elimanating him we ensure pease in the futur.

At 7/28/03 07:13 PM, Deathlock-5 wrote:

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

let me point this out .what did we do to osama bin ladden? nothing, and he has made numerous terreristic attacks on our country. by elimanating him we ensure pease in the futur.

*slaps deathlock-5 on back of head*

Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but the US TRAINED OSAMA BEN LADEN ON HOW TO BE A TERRORIST. It was part of the Cold War, where the predominant strategy was to support insurrectionist groups against your enemy as opposed to outright warfare, which in the case of nuclear weapons, results in MAD. Now, when the USSR fell, Osama didn't have anyone to fight, and the US stopped funding his activities, and went to war with Iraq (First Gulf War). Osama saw our alliance with Israel, and assumed that a if he could destroy the US's financial structure, he could stop our ability to monetarily support Israel and other military actions in the Middle East.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but the US TRAINED OSAMA BEN LADEN ON HOW TO BE A TERRORIST. It was part of the Cold War, where the predominant strategy was to support insurrectionist groups against your enemy as opposed to outright warfare, which in the case of nuclear weapons, results in MAD. Now, when the USSR fell, Osama didn't have anyone to fight, and the US stopped funding his activities, and went to war with Iraq (First Gulf War). Osama saw our alliance with Israel, and assumed that a if he could destroy the US's financial structure, he could stop our ability to monetarily support Israel and other military actions in the Middle East.

I hope that clears things up for you.

wat i was wandering is wat we did to osama to piss him off so bad that he would want to pull off 9/11 it cant be stoped unding his assets the man was a billionair untill at the begining of operasion enduring freedom when the us froze the majority of his assetes. wat u realy told me was that he made seceral embasy bombings,damaged a us battle ship in yemen, and organised 9/11 because we worship God and support countries who do the same. so all we did to him before he started his attacks was belive as we always have

At 7/28/03 06:36 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: Would you rob someone if you KNEW FOR A FACT that they would blow your head clean off? I think not.

Yes I would because the robber is the one that draws his gun first so the victim can't take his gun out of his purse of whatever. BOOM! I have a new purse and a new gun.

At 7/26/03 08:03 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Here's one for you pro-gun people. Guns create terrorists.

No, guns create loud noise, and damage to whatever is directly in front of them. Charismatic radical leaders create terrorists.

oh, get off it. Higher taxes solve nothing.

They give the government more money....thus stopping the Government going bankrupt. This is a pretty straight forward point.

Would you rob someone if you KNEW FOR A FACT that they would blow your head clean off? I think not.

Hmm, I wonder if the US has entire sections of the population who are victims as they are demographically less likely to blow your head clean off.....like old women. The fact of the matter is Funk, there are many other ways to stop a criminal like a tazer gun or pepper spray. These are good enough for policemen here, why not ordinary people over there? I'd like to see a criminal try and attack you when they can't see...or better when they're convulsing on the floor.

At 7/29/03 08:44 AM, Slizor wrote: They give the government more money....thus stopping the Government going bankrupt. This is a pretty straight forward point.

Ahh, the socialist theory. (Government having money > people having money).

Who is most justified in deciding what to do with their won resources, you (who earned it), or Big Government (which is all too happy to take it from you because "it knows best").

At 7/28/03 10:59 PM, Deathlock-5 wrote:
wat i was wandering is wat we did to osama to piss him off so bad that he would want to pull off 9/11 it cant be stoped unding his assets the man was a billionair untill at the begining of operasion enduring freedom when the us froze the majority of his assetes. wat u realy told me was that he made seceral embasy bombings,damaged a us battle ship in yemen, and organised 9/11 because we worship God and support countries who do the same. so all we did to him before he started his attacks was belive as we always have

I cant even understand what this guy is trying to say it's so badly typed.
I mean, dont get me wrong, I make typing errors like the rest of us, but they dont TOTALLY OBSCURE THE POINT OF WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY....

At 7/29/03 04:06 AM, TheShrike wrote:

No, guns create loud noise, and damage to whatever is directly in front of them. Charismatic radical leaders create terrorists.

But Timothy McVeigh loved his guns. So much that he blew up a building full of men, women and children because the government tried to take his away. No, Timothy McVeigh isn't a fundamentalist Muslim, he's as American as apple pie and his zany love for guns resulted in the death of 168 human lives. ^_^

At 7/30/03 11:38 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:
But Timothy McVeigh loved his guns. So much that he blew up a building full of men, women and children because the government tried to take his away. No, Timothy McVeigh isn't a fundamentalist Muslim, he's as American as apple pie and his zany love for guns resulted in the death of 168 human lives. ^_^

So let me get this straight: Timothy McVeigh was just your perfectly normal, well-adjusted, completely sane, friendly American... then guns came into the picture.

The only thing that was wrong with him was his love of guns? No anti-government mentality, no sociopathic urges, no obsession with being controlled, no terrorist tendencies? The guy was a fucking animal, who gives a shit what his hobbies were.

At 7/30/03 11:38 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: But Timothy McVeigh loved his guns.

I love my computers. Does that make me a malicious hacker?

So much that he blew up a building full of men, women and children because the government tried to take his away.

I'm surprised that you haven't heard of one (several, actually) particular theory that he didn't do it. So the US Government actually nailed it right on the head with him? Or perhaps you'd rather believe whatever is convenient at the moment?

No, Timothy McVeigh isn't a fundamentalist Muslim, he's as American as apple pie and his zany love for guns resulted in the death of 168 human lives. ^_^

Wait till I find out what your latest IP is. You are like soo gonna be hit with a DOS attack! ^_^
</sarcasm>

At 7/30/03 12:09 PM, Crack_Smoker wrote:

So let me get this straight: Timothy McVeigh was just your perfectly normal, well-adjusted, completely sane, friendly American... then guns came into the picture.

Not guns, the gun culture.

The only thing that was wrong with him was his love of guns? No anti-government mentality, no sociopathic urges, no obsession with being controlled, no terrorist tendencies? The guy was a fucking animal, who gives a shit what his hobbies were.

The guy was a fucking animal yet he was still allowed to legally purchase all of the guns he owned? UH-OH!

At 7/30/03 12:16 PM, TheShrike wrote:

I love my computers. Does that make me a malicious hacker?

Computers have several useful purposes. Guns only have one. I'll give you a hint, it's purpose isn't to bake cookies.

I'm surprised that you haven't heard of one (several, actually) particular theory that he didn't do it. So the US Government actually nailed it right on the head with him? Or perhaps you'd rather believe whatever is convenient at the moment?

Gee, that's odd. I thought he confessed and explained in detail all of his plan details and his motivations for his terroristic act.

Wait till I find out what your latest IP is. You are like soo gonna be hit with a DOS attack! ^_^
</sarcasm>

cheese.