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I don't look at porn because I'm not a sex maniac. Also, I think that it is unfair how people can just take nude pictures of themselves, post them on the internet, and make lots of money. I don't support this kind of living, so I don't go to the sites. If people want sex, why don't they just go at the real thing? Also, I'm concerned about how a lot of people on NG like the porn dress-ups. I don't want NG to become a porn site!

At 7/22/03 09:56 PM, z7x_flag wrote: I don't look at porn because I'm not a sex maniac.

Dude, you don't have to be a sex maniac to look at porn.

Also, I think that it is unfair how people can just take nude pictures of themselves, post them on the internet, and make lots of money.

I don't either. However I do believe it is better than people who manufacture music for children and teenagers, who are just using the fact that the kids will do whatever they are told to to look 'cool.'

I also thiknk it's better than a lot of corporate logos, who use cheap middle eastern labour to make goods. (One reason why I boycott all branded clothes.)

I don't support this kind of living, so I don't go to the sites. If people want sex, why don't they just go at the real thing?

Probably because they can't. Either they're too young or too ugly or too lazy to go out. Either that, or maybe they don't want someone nagging them to do DIY work when they wake up.

Also, I'm concerned about how a lot of people on NG like the porn dress-ups. I don't want NG to become a porn site!

It's hardly porn.

At 7/23/03 02:45 AM, bumcheekycity wrote:

At 7/22/03 09:56 PM, z7x_flag wrote: Also, I think that it is unfair how people can just take nude pictures of themselves, post them on the internet, and make lots of money.

I don't either. However I do believe it is better than people who manufacture music for children and teenagers, who are just using the fact that the kids will do whatever they are told to to look 'cool.'
I also thiknk it's better than a lot of corporate logos, who use cheap middle eastern labour to make goods. (One reason why I boycott all branded clothes.)

I think that it is completely fair. If you are a good looking woman (man), why shouldn't you use that to bring in some cash? It is supply and demand. And no one is forced to view the pics/flicks, so it is completely fair.
But please don't get me started on teenage fashion. That is a lot worse, as immature ppl cannot stand as much pressure as mature ones. If you are rather "simple" up there, you do whatever you can to stick to the crew, and fit in the best. But of course there are exeptions, but it is the general trend.
But it is still fair, and I would never object things like that. Because as long as ppl do stuff (not anything criminal, or suicide if you have a great resposebilety) 100% of free will, it is OK (unless you have a certain illness or anything that keeps you from thinking clear. IQ 70 and lower goes there too).

I don't support this kind of living, so I don't go to the sites. If people want sex, why don't they just go at the real thing?

Probably because they can't. Either they're too young or too ugly or too lazy to go out. Either that, or maybe they don't want someone nagging them to do DIY work when they wake up.

And it lets you relax more, as you don't have the preassure on you.

Also, I'm concerned about how a lot of people on NG like the porn dress-ups. I don't want NG to become a porn site!

It's hardly porn.

Porn is if sexual acts are commited. If not it is basicly nudety/softcore.
And in some dress-ups, a lot of work is put in it, which makes it OK. It is a ballance.

Which should stay at NG:
A mediocre done dress-up, with about 10 clothes, but not a naked chick.
A really good dress-up, with a lot of clothes and even cool sounds, but a totally nude chick?

I never did quite know if Hentai or other forms of drawn nudity and sexual acts were considered pornography? I was watching an appeals case on CourtTV, but it concluded without really saying anything. I never got to catch the ruling.

At 7/19/03 06:30 PM, BootlegJones wrote: I just wanna know what people think aboutporn every where.

Im only a kid, but the bro of a friend of mine has it on his computer (me and my mate where browsing through his harddisk)
Disgusting!

I agree with crossbreed on the whole sex-ed thing. I mean I once knew a kid who had a collection of used condems he had found on the ground and then blown up and brought them to parties. And when just talk the diseases boys and girls might go psycho like on south park not get to enjoy sex

At 7/21/03 02:31 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

At 7/20/03 07:36 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 7/20/03 07:00 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

Frankly, though. As long as porn isn't violent, I don't really care too much. Though I do consider it a form of prostitution (being paid for having sex with a stranger), which is illegal. Don't quite get how that loop-hole works.

Well, the difference is, they BOTH get paid by a third party to watch and film the act for proper distribution through the legal channels for the enjoyment of the masturbating public. Some stars get a percentage of the profits, as well. I certainly understand how one could constrew that as such, however.

A quote about prostitution from my ex-girlfriend-

"I don't get it; selling is legal, and fucking is legal, so why isn't selling fucking legal?"

At 7/24/03 02:41 AM, PreacherJ wrote:

At 7/21/03 02:31 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

At 7/20/03 07:36 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 7/20/03 07:00 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

Well, the difference is, they BOTH get paid by a third party to watch and film the act for proper distribution through the legal channels for the enjoyment of the masturbating public. Some stars get a percentage of the profits, as well. I certainly understand how one could constrew that as such, however.

A quote about prostitution from my ex-girlfriend-

"I don't get it; selling is legal, and fucking is legal, so why isn't selling fucking legal?"

Quote from me: "Selling is legal, and children are legal, so why isn't selling children legal?"

lol. That logic could be used for anything. ^_- Course, I'm sure you meant that as a joke, anyway.
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Well, prostitutes get paid for having sex with a stranger. Porno stars get paid for having sex with a stranger. The only difference is that it's filmed and sold. @_o' Beats me how that no longer makes it prostitution.
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But, whatever. At least the people who act in porn already have their careers more or less ruined for the future (youth and looks don't last forever, and once they go.....who's going to hire a porn star to flip burgers? lol. Well, you know what I mean).

What's MORE upsetting are the cases where a nerdy little guy takes his mama's video camera and films drunk girls at parties.....and then becomes a millionare for it without paying these girls anything......I'm of course, talking about the disturbing "Girls Gone Wild" thing. @_o' That's capitalism for you. lol. ^_-

I don't approve of that, sense most of the girls are either too drunk or too young to realize what they're doing (especially when they're being coerced by a "rap star," yay. Pffft), and how they'll feel about it later. However, real porn isn't that big of a deal, because they know fully what they're doing and most of those people don't have their "whole live ahead of them" anyway, and they already know how they'll feel about it later. Also, most importantly, they're being paid for contributing to the profit of the people who sell the videos. Unlike the nerdy cheapo who did Girls Gone Wild. lol.

PS. I hate Snoop Dog after that. Well, I already hated him for being so stuck up, but, man, what a sleez. @_o' Get a girlfriend instead of trying to use your fame to get a little college girl to flash you at spring break. lol.
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PPS. Also, is it just me, or is it kinda sad when you see an actually pretty girl in a porn commercial or add....or porn (I don't know, I don't see it @_o')?----when you're not getting off of her to anyone who might get smart-----I keep feeling like, jeez, these girls don't have to resort to this crap. They're young and can get whatever man they want, and now they've just sorta ruined that.

I mean, not a lot of guys would wanna date a girl who had sex with about 200 previous men for money, for a living, even if she was cute. Also, the cute girls could always be models and make good money while keeping their dignity and future......and now.

Oh, well. It just makes me feel bad for them, ya know? Like, "You're already pretty and guys will like you. So, why do you feel you have to get so many more men 'liking you' by resorting to that? Especially when you can get some good ones." Sheesh. Well, whatever. I know that just because someone's pretty doesn't mean they can't be insecure. lol. Maybe they don't have anything aside from their looks, so they feel pressured to just go with that then.
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Well, that's my thoughts on that. All in all, I just don't think a healthy person would want to give up their bodies and affections to complete strangers, and have other complete strangers watch just for money.....for a living. @_o' I mean, that's not exactly a "hope for the future" or something to "see what you can do with your life and skills/wits, etc."

To me, being in porn just sorta seems like giving up on hopes and the future.

While doing something like that may turn some people on once in a while, or something. I just don't think that making a living off it is still "expressing your sexuality." Because, after that's the only way you start making money, you can no longer start or stop "expressing yourself" when you want to. @_o' You're body's already given to the industry. So much for that.

And I honestly don't think that women really enjoy being in porn after a while. When I hear those who claim to still "like it," I also remember that there are many drugged out strippers and beat up prostitutes who stubbornly say the same thing. @_o' But, who knows? I still don't think it's healthy and seems like giving up on yourself to me.

At 7/24/03 04:01 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote: And I honestly don't think that women really enjoy being in porn after a while. When I hear those who claim to still "like it," I also remember that there are many drugged out strippers and beat up prostitutes who stubbornly say the same thing. @_o' But, who knows? I still don't think it's healthy and seems like giving up on yourself to me.

Woah, Ninja, you don't go halves on the posts do you? Anyway, the difference between porn stars and drugges prostitutes is prostitutes live in slums. Porn stars live in huge houses and don't do drugs, usually. They also take away huge salaries.

At 7/24/03 04:19 AM, bumcheekycity wrote:

Woah, Ninja, you don't go halves on the posts do you? Anyway, the difference between porn stars and drugges prostitutes is prostitutes live in slums. Porn stars live in huge houses and don't do drugs, usually. They also take away huge salaries.

Actually, porn stars don't make as much as you'd think. Though it is pretty decent. Also, a LOT of them do do drugs. Heck, even regular movie stars do drugs. ^_- But, the sad thing is, so I've heard, a lot of the women wind up doing it sometimes to "get through" the stuff. In fact, that's notorious for how strippers get started on drugs. Letting some strange guy "do you" who calls you a "skank" or "bitch" or "slut" or whatnot, isn't as easy as it sounds. And I'm sure it sounds easy. ^_-

At 7/24/03 04:25 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote: Actually, porn stars don't make as much as you'd think. Though it is pretty decent. Also, a LOT of them do do drugs. Heck, even regular movie stars do drugs. ^_- But, the sad thing is, so I've heard, a lot of the women wind up doing it sometimes to "get through" the stuff. In fact, that's notorious for how strippers get started on drugs. Letting some strange guy "do you" who calls you a "skank" or "bitch" or "slut" or whatnot, isn't as easy as it sounds. And I'm sure it sounds easy. ^_-

The best porn stars make 6-figure salaries. They record porn just like normal films, there's just a lot of sex. It can get quite fustrating, I believe when the director calls 'cut' and you're almst 'there' as it were. I'm not talking about the girls who dall small-time. I'm talking about the big guns.

At 7/24/03 08:53 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

The best porn stars make 6-figure salaries. They record porn just like normal films, there's just a lot of sex. It can get quite fustrating, I believe when the director calls 'cut' and you're almst 'there' as it were. I'm not talking about the girls who dall small-time. I'm talking about the big guns.

Hmm. Where did you learn all that? On a show I saw, they had dozens of (at the time) very popular porn stars that wound up with "barely nothing" in the end. And they were all saying that they had big decent houses. But that they didn't really make all that much.

And I also learned that a lot of porn stars try to get into the entertainment business afterwards (like, singing, etc. You know what I mean.). However, about none of them make it. And I think it's weird that they would try to become singers or whatnot if they were already as wealthy as you say.

All in all, if that was true, then why are we paying prostitutes as much as doctors, anyway? And porn stars ARE prostitutes. Sex with a stranger for money. Just cause it's filmed, then that has something to do with them not being prostitutes anymore? That's just stupid.

I think they should get paid much less. I mean, after you do that once, you're sorta stuck in that business anyway. So, it's not like you can afford to be picky about your wages. lol.

So, the prostitutes get 6 figs for having sex (skillfully. lol), and make as much as doctors? That's capitalism for you.

At 7/24/03 04:59 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote: All in all, if that was true, then why are we paying prostitutes as much as doctors, anyway? And porn stars ARE prostitutes. Sex with a stranger for money. Just cause it's filmed, then that has something to do with them not being prostitutes anymore? That's just stupid.

For the same reason that we pay those shitty rap artists MILLIONS for doing whatever they pretend to be doing.

So, the prostitutes get 6 figs for having sex (skillfully. lol), and make as much as doctors? That's capitalism for you.

God bless capitalism.

At 7/24/03 06:02 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: So, the prostitutes get 6 figs for having sex (skillfully. lol), and make as much as doctors? That's capitalism for you.

God bless capitalism.

I don't think they get the entire sum, the pimp gets a big cut, and many are routinely abused. Clients may not use condoms and they can't do a thing.

At 7/24/03 06:02 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/24/03 04:59 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

For the same reason that we pay those shitty rap artists MILLIONS for doing whatever they pretend to be doing.

I don't get that. Is what they're "pretending to be doing" illegal until it's taped and sold?

I don't see the comparison to what I said.

At 7/25/03 08:58 AM, misterx2000 wrote:

At 7/24/03 06:02 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

I don't think they get the entire sum, the pimp gets a big cut, and many are routinely abused. Clients may not use condoms and they can't do a thing.

We're talking about the prostitutes in porno films. And how they're doing something that would be illegal under any other cercumstances, and yet make as much as doctors (supposedly) for it.

^_-

At 7/26/03 03:46 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

At 7/25/03 08:58 AM, misterx2000 wrote:

At 7/24/03 06:02 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

I don't think they get the entire sum, the pimp gets a big cut, and many are routinely abused. Clients may not use condoms and they can't do a thing.

We're talking about the prostitutes in porno films. And how they're doing something that would be illegal under any other cercumstances, and yet make as much as doctors (supposedly) for it.

^_-

Tawnee Stone makes a lot, as does Krystal Steal. Don't ask how I know them. It's a personal JMHX thing.

At 7/26/03 03:44 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

At 7/24/03 06:02 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/24/03 04:59 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

For the same reason that we pay those shitty rap artists MILLIONS for doing whatever they pretend to be doing.

I don't get that. Is what they're "pretending to be doing" illegal until it's taped and sold?

I don't see the comparison to what I said.

I was having a poke at rap. And the comparison is this: Porn Stars are overpaid because suckers will pay £20 for a DVD. Rap Stars are overpaid becauser people will pay £20 for their album. Theirt job could be done by anyone with genitals or a larynx (depending on what job you prefer.)

At 7/26/03 04:25 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/26/03 03:44 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

At 7/24/03 06:02 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/24/03 04:59 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

I was having a poke at rap. And the comparison is this: Porn Stars are overpaid because suckers will pay £20 for a DVD. Rap Stars are overpaid becauser people will pay £20 for their album. Theirt job could be done by anyone with genitals or a larynx (depending on what job you prefer.)

Snoop Dogg has proven that you can do the porn circuit and the rap circuit at once, with Girls Gone Wild: Doggy Style.

At 7/26/03 04:29 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Snoop Dogg has proven that you can do the porn circuit and the rap circuit at once, with Girls Gone Wild: Doggy Style.

Yer, but Snoop Dogg can't make proper music.

At 7/26/03 04:37 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/26/03 04:29 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Snoop Dogg has proven that you can do the porn circuit and the rap circuit at once, with Girls Gone Wild: Doggy Style.

Yer, but Snoop Dogg can't make proper music.

He makes rap. That is not music anyway.

At 7/26/03 08:11 AM, -PZY- wrote:

At 7/26/03 04:37 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/26/03 04:29 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Snoop Dogg has proven that you can do the porn circuit and the rap circuit at once, with Girls Gone Wild: Doggy Style.

Yer, but Snoop Dogg can't make proper music.

He makes rap. That is not music anyway.

Eminem, as much as I don't like the rap genre, is good at what he does. I was watching VH1 200 Pop Culture Icons (I'm trying to get to #1, but the progression is so SLOW that I'm dying here), and William Shatner is on there praising Eminem for his skill with lyrical poetry. I personally think some of Eminem's music, not so much the music but the writing framework behind it, is incredibly well thought-out.

Most of rap is still Crap, though.

At 7/26/03 08:32 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Eminem, as much as I don't like the rap genre, is good at what he does. I was watching VH1 200 Pop Culture Icons (I'm trying to get to #1, but the progression is so SLOW that I'm dying here), and William Shatner is on there praising Eminem for his skill with lyrical poetry. I personally think some of Eminem's music, not so much the music but the writing framework behind it, is incredibly well thought-out.

Most of rap is still Crap, though.

Eminem doesn't have skill with musicsal poetry. His music is written for him, and so is the music that the skilled musicians in the background play. I doubt he's written more than one line.

At 7/21/03 02:31 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

Actually, it's already been proven that porn causes violence towards women in our society @_o' (if I can go on the female defense for a moment. lol. We had to learn about this in school) because of this.

Could you provide me with a link or something to the study you're talking about? You'll forgive me, but I've seen enough times where somebody does a study and "proves" they're points...but when you go back and review the methods of the study, you realize how flawed and ill-conceived it was, so if you could provide a link or something where I could find it, that would be super =).

However, all in all, if it's not needed, then what's really the point of having it if it can cause conflict in our society? I don't get what the big deal is. I think something better would be to just start allowing "romantic" sex in movies more. And more or less quite the porn crap. At least we can be sure that the youths won't be prude or sheltered from sex, and also be sure that they won't get the wrong idea about it, at the same time.

I would say it is not the responsibility of movies or any form of media to teach children about sex, but rather the parents. I would also suggest to you that sex is a varied thing, and that different people have different tastes, desires, and fetishes, and there's really no uniform way to go about it. I'm not a big believer in taboos, I think we need some (like against marrying or being otherwise sexually involved with family members), but a lot of hang ups about pornography, prostitution, I don't think it's helping us any. When you outlaw something like that, you don't make it go away, you just make it go underground and into the hands of criminals, making it an unsafe practice for those involved. So I don't think porn is harmful to society if parents are doing they're jobs in educating kids about sex.

Now, I don't mind if people defend porn. I don't care. But I don't think they should defend it on the bases of it "helping kids feel open about sex." lol. Cause, honestly, that's just a little silly. There are plenty of other less harmful ways to do that. If you get off on porn, then I don't care, and go ahead and defend it based on your rights to do so. ^_^ But don't try to pretend like you're for it "for the sake of the children." lol. ^_-

I'm not going off on that defense, but don't bash porn based on some "well, I think it harms the children" or "It sends the wrong message about women" because those arguments seem just as tired and unprovable to me.

Frankly, though. As long as porn isn't violent, I don't really care too much. Though I do consider it a form of prostitution (being paid for having sex with a stranger), which is illegal.

I agree, something like snuff films should be shut down and stopped (and usually they are). But I don't know about the prostitution thing...I mean, you advocated "legitimate" movies using more "romantic" depictions of sex, so...that's people again being payed to have sex, so wouldn't the studios be just as bad? My theory has always been this, a person's body is there responsibility and they're possesion, perhaps the only thing that all people on earth can agree a person truly owns. So, I think people have the right to do what they want with they're bodies, simple as that. Now I just know that's going to open me up to "what about prostitutes who have diseases and pass them on to their customers?" Which to me is just a reason to legalize the practice, regulate it, because it's not going away...but that's probably another argument for another day ;).

However, sense I don't like porn myself, I'm starting to get sick of all the stupid ads on the internet everywhere. GAH! I had that happen to me in the school library one time. @_o' JEEZ! I hate that!

Me too...but such is the internet ad market now, when the net bubble burst, everybody had to go to pop up ads to try and stay alive (and many, MANY sites still didn't survive), porn ads are the most lucrative for many sites, and so that is what you see popping up the most. Sucks ass but, it's a neccessary evil I'd say.

I think they need to start cutting down cause I'm almost thinking of stopping coming here just cause I'm sick of all the ads. @_o' Or, as long as it isn't "violent" porn.

Well, see my above point about it being a neccessary evil, if pop ups are so problematic for you however, I recommend you get a pop up blocker, I use one from panic ware and I only very rarely get a pop up from this site, or other pop up heavy sites I visit (and when I do, it's a clean pop up for something like reunion.com or something like that). So you have options to get that sort of thing out of you're face aside from simply leaving this site. Which I really do hate to see anybody do.

However, I don't think it "helps people" with their sexuality, either. And, I do think that it even damages it in many cases. Not just by how it warps people's views of sex and women, but also because I think it ruins the exitement of the sexual experience. How many times can you see a guy "smacking his hoe" before you start getting "immune" to sex? lol.

I dunno, I have a friend that's married, watches porn with her husband on occassion, and has two healthy, beautiful girls. She has a fine and healthy attitude towards sex, and we joke about it quite a bit. So I really can't see you're point here at all, sorry.

So, in conclusion. I don't think porn is "bad," but I definetly don't think it's "helpful," either (and can even do some damage in some cases). So, I just don't really care. I think it's just an indifferent topic.

I think it depends on the person...is it enriching? I dunno, maybe it gives some couples some new ideas for things to spice up their sex life with, or it just provides a single person a way to get off. I think if it hurts someone's perceptions of sex, it's because that person's perceptions were damaged BEFORE they were exposed to pornography. I think the argument that porn hurts people's views of sexuality is just as groundless as the idea that violent television or video games make people into violent killers, it's a brush off by society to excuse bad parental guidance and attention (since you should be able to tell if something is seriously wrong with you're kid). Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong =).

At 7/26/03 01:36 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 7/21/03 02:31 AM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

Could you provide me with a link or something to the study you're talking about? You'll forgive me, but I've seen enough times where somebody does a study and "proves" they're points...but when you go back and review the methods of the study, you realize how flawed and ill-conceived it was, so if you could provide a link or something where I could find it, that would be super =).

Links? Why is the only sources people think of come from the internet? OK. I learned this on the Discovery channel (lol), from two culture magazines, and we had to learn about it one of my college classes. Which was very fun, let me tell you. @_o'

If you want to learn about it from internet sources only, then just go ahead and look it up yourself. lol. Sorry to be straight foward, but not a lot of my information comes from the internet, and yet I've had a lot of people demand these sources from me. So, I previously had to search the internet myself to find MORE sources on it just to satisfy these lazy people (and you know who you are).

But, here, let me put it this way. It's common knowledge that showing some guy smacking his hoe and calling women bitches, hores, sluts, etc. etc. which is so common (especially on the internet), and portraying women as loose and wanting sex from any random stranger, whenever.......and then having guys get off on that, well. It does affect how they view women.

However, I DO think that it depends on the guy. Like, a normal guy with more real relationships with women would understand that women don't like to have sex with random strangers. And he won't let the porno propoganda of them being "sluts" and "hores" affect him.

However.....there are many men who may not get this. And, they are freaks, granted that. In fact, many men who rape I've heard say on TV that "they don't think there was anything wrong with what they did" or say that "she came on to me, so I thought she wanted me to rape her." And other freaky stuff like that. @_o' But, these particular guys only have their views of women warped more depending on how much porn they get hooked on, and, more importantly, how much they let that image become their reality.

So, I'm not for making porn illegal, really. But it does propell violence towards women in our society (more men are succeptable to that sort of thing than you may think).

Especially with a society that "shushes" all information about sex to a man, and then slams him with this weird vision of how it's "supposed to be like."

But, I say that, considering this, maybe we should cut back on the porn and then have more "romantic" or "real" sex in movies and what not.

I would say it is not the responsibility of movies or any form of media to teach children about sex, but rather the parents. I would also suggest to you that sex is a varied thing, and that different people have different tastes, desires, and fetishes, and there's really no uniform way to go about it. I'm not a big believer in taboos, I think we need some (like against marrying or being otherwise sexually involved with family members), but a lot of hang ups about pornography, prostitution, I don't think it's helping us any. When you outlaw something like that, you don't make it go away, you just make it go underground and into the hands of criminals, making it an unsafe practice for those involved. So I don't think porn is harmful to society if parents are doing they're jobs in educating kids about sex.

lol. You think I'm against sex on TV? No. I'm against having ONLY freaky sex, like in porn, on TV. I think we should have LESS porno sex, and MORE real sex. That way, a lot of people won't be as prude nor would we have the opposite effect, with people thinking that porno is a reality.

I'm not going off on that defense, but don't bash porn based on some "well, I think it harms the children" or "It sends the wrong message about women" because those arguments seem just as tired and unprovable to me.

......Um. So, it gives the right message about women? lol. Well, if not. Then tell me what sort of message it gives? Now, it's not the biggest deal, but sense it's true, I wouldn't call it a "tired" argument, just because you may not want to believe in it enough to look up info on it yourself. ^_^

As for that child thing. Children shouldn't be watching it anyway, so I don't consider that a good argument either.

Well, see my above point about it being a neccessary evil, if pop ups are so problematic for you however, I recommend you get a pop up blocker, I use one from panic ware and I only very rarely get a pop up from this site, or other pop up heavy sites I visit (and when I do, it's a clean pop up for something like reunion.com or something like that). So you have options to get that sort of thing out of you're face aside from simply leaving this site. Which I really do hate to see anybody do.

It's not the popups. It's the ads. Anyway, I don't think it's a "nessasary" evil if the site does something constructive or popular. lol. I'm sure that NG would still be just as productive without the porn.

I dunno, I have a friend that's married, watches porn with her husband on occassion, and has two healthy, beautiful girls. She has a fine and healthy attitude towards sex, and we joke about it quite a bit. So I really can't see you're point here at all, sorry.

So, because she has a healthy attitude towards sex, then you say she "got that from porn itself?" That's a falacy. lol. She probably already had a healthy view of sex before she started watching porn. It wasn't porn that "gave her a healthy view of sex." Or, I should say, you don't know where she adapted her healthy view towards sex. So, you can't say, well she watches porn, therefore, she must have gotten it from porn.

Also, I'm sure you realize that using that SAME logic, for example, I could give many examples of rapists who watch porn a lot. Should I then also assume that they "must have gotten their views of sex from porn?" lol. No. Although I'm sure it contributed, I'm sure he had problems with women before that.

Point is. There is no relationship there. Not until you can get a study or a person's history, etc. and THEN find out where porn fit it.

(sorry)

I think it depends on the person...is it enriching? I dunno, maybe it gives some couples some new ideas for things to spice up their sex life with, or it just provides a single person a way to get off. I think if it hurts someone's perceptions of sex, it's because that person's perceptions were damaged BEFORE they were exposed to pornography. I think the argument that porn hurts people's views of sexuality is just as groundless as the idea that violent television or video games make people into violent killers, it's a brush off by society to excuse bad parental guidance and attention (since you should be able to tell if something is seriously wrong with you're kid). Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong =).

I agree partially. But people, especially the younger guys, who don't know much about sex or women yet could have those views damaged by too much porn. So, porn can damage the views of those who know little about sex or women. However, I also agree that those who have bad views of women and have porn contribute to that, had most of those views before.

Also, the violent game isn't the same thing. If you're teaching kids to ENJOY seeing REAL people die or get hurt, then it would be more similar. The video game thing would be more of an argument to hentai or something.

Now, for the kid to like seeing real people get hurt or die, then A) They either already had issues to begin with, or B) They don't know enough about morals or people to understand that this is truly wrong, and not how people should act towards other human beings.

Similar to porn.

So, I still stand by it not being "helpful" to our society. But, once again, I don't really care.

Nice debating with you. ^_^

At 7/26/03 04:31 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

At 7/26/03 01:36 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

Links? Why is the only sources people think of come from the internet? OK. I learned this on the Discovery channel (lol), from two culture magazines, and we had to learn about it one of my college classes. Which was very fun, let me tell you. @_o'

Sorry, I am just usually mucho lazy, but my point is that you're making some pretty big statements and not giving us much info on where you're getting it from, so you're right, links was the wrong word, my apologies, I should have asked what you're sources were, again I apologize, and will try to keep that in mind in the future.

But, here, let me put it this way. It's common knowledge that showing some guy smacking his hoe and calling women bitches, hores, sluts, etc. etc. which is so common (especially on the internet), and portraying women as loose and wanting sex from any random stranger, whenever.......and then having guys get off on that, well. It does affect how they view women.

No, I don't think it does, I think you're really not giving people enough credit for telling facts from fictions my friend.

However, I DO think that it depends on the guy. Like, a normal guy with more real relationships with women would understand that women don't like to have sex with random strangers. And he won't let the porno propoganda of them being "sluts" and "hores" affect him.

Here's where I have a problem with you're argument, first you make it sound like porn is going to poison the minds of every man who watchs, than you go off and agree with me that it depends on the person...I mean, I guess my question is this: why do you argue with me in one paragraph and than agree with the argument I made in the next? Makes no sense to me.

However.....there are many men who may not get this. And, they are freaks, granted that. In fact, many men who rape I've heard say on TV that "they don't think there was anything wrong with what they did" or say that "she came on to me, so I thought she wanted me to rape her." And other freaky stuff like that. @_o' But, these particular guys only have their views of women warped more depending on how much porn they get hooked on, and, more importantly, how much they let that image become their reality.

Oh give me a break! You're gonna actually come out here and say that a rapist is a rapist because he watched a lot of porn? Get real! lol, that was truly some funny stuff. Rapists and sexual predators have real psychological problems, maybe porn contributes sure, but it dosen't CAUSE the problem, it was caused by something else much earlier.

So, I'm not for making porn illegal, really. But it does propell violence towards women in our society (more men are succeptable to that sort of thing than you may think).

I simply don't believe that, and you can't prove that I'm right or wrong, that's the problem with you're argument here.

But, I say that, considering this, maybe we should cut back on the porn and then have more "romantic" or "real" sex in movies and what not.

A lot of porn is how sex is...you don't think they're are couples that enjoy the same activitys depicted in porno with each other in america? My point again is, there is no "real" way to have sex, it is a varied and individual act, all sorts have people have different preferences and things they like, so I again don't see how you can applied some certain type of standard to what sex is.

lol. You think I'm against sex on TV? No. I'm against having ONLY freaky sex, like in porn, on TV. I think we should have LESS porno sex, and MORE real sex.

I don't think most people think porn is reality, I don't think it's the problem you seem to think it is. I also think you're putting you're personal standards and definitions on what sex is and trying to make it sound like this in fact the way things are.

......Um. So, it gives the right message about women? lol. Well, if not. Then tell me what sort of message it gives? Now, it's not the biggest deal, but sense it's true, I wouldn't call it a "tired" argument, just because you may not want to believe in it enough to look up info on it yourself. ^_^

Why does it give a message at all? They're are just as many misconceptions going around about men because of the advent of porn ("Oh guys watch porn cause they're all sex maniacs!") so I think the gate swings both ways in the misconception department.

As for that child thing. Children shouldn't be watching it anyway, so I don't consider that a good argument either.

I agree they shouldn't, I was just merely saying you're arguments were sounding just as cliche as someone saying "let it alone to help the children".

It's not the popups. It's the ads. Anyway, I don't think it's a "nessasary" evil if the site does something constructive or popular. lol. I'm sure that NG would still be just as productive without the porn.

Argh, NG needs to make money, it dosen't make money from us users coming here everyday, it makes money from the ads it runs, and for all the content and expenses involved, NG needs high paying sponsers, porn companies pay the highest, and this is a site that is targeted towards an adult audience, so NG runs ads from the highest paying sponsors so they can keep the site going for us. Simple.

So, because she has a healthy attitude towards sex, then you say she "got that from porn itself?" That's a falacy. lol.

At one point did I say that? I don't remember saying that...she got her healthy attitude long before that yes, her mother was very open with her about that (which I think is just good parenting), but what I was trying to point out to you is that porn is not just watched by lonely single people with problems, that it is also watched by couples with very healthy and mature attitudes towards sex, and that it is not the evil medium you seem to want to make it out to be.

Point is. There is no relationship there. Not until you can get a study or a person's history, etc. and THEN find out where porn fit it.

If porn factored into it at all =). Since we had sexual predators BEFORE the advent of porn as we know it now (Jack The Ripper anyone?)

At 7/26/03 04:35 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote:

Nice debating with you. ^_^

Whoops, I missed this part before, it's been nice debating with you too. I hope I haven't crossed the line into the "personal attack" type territory, cause sometimes I have that all too human ability to do that. Anyway, it's been nice to find a topic to debate somebody on and I respect you're devotion to you're beliefs.

Oh... the latest Playboy issue has a special section. The Girls of Starbucks! Very interesting reading material, indeed.

Porn makes young men grow... into mature adults I mean. If a monkey isn't exposed to sex than it will never interact with a female mate. I like porn and its safe and perfectly healthy. There should be more in Canada without hastle.