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At 9/13/07 05:56 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:

At 9/11/07 04:09 PM, Smithers555 wrote: Today, during the moment of silence, I realised that the cause of September 11, 2001 was Muslims. If there were no Muslims, the WTC would still stand.

Uh...killing people is against Islam and the "jihad" is highly illegal in Islamic terms.

Uh, you gonna prove that, or are you just spurting out the mantras you've heard Muslims repeat over and over?

How could you explian 9:5, that says "kill the mushirkeen (associators of partners with God) wherever ye may find them"? Does the verse say "kill the Quraish who broke the treaty", or "just fight in self-defense"?

At 9/13/07 06:31 AM, Conspiracy wrote:

At 9/11/07 05:30 PM, McPaper wrote:

At 9/11/07 04:09 PM, Smithers555 wrote: KILL MUSLIMS LOL

This. This is why you Americans are stereotyped as stupid.

I'm with you. Even though I'm American, theres stupid fucks like that guy who still don't really know what happened during 9/11.

It wasn't Muslims dumb shit.

Don't tell me, it was the American government, or even better - the joooos?

Do you have any evidence to prove that 9/11 wasn't a terrorist attack? Here's a run down of the one's I've heard over the years:

Towers fell as if by demolition - So wait, what was the point of demolishing the towers? I thought it was an excuse to invade Iraq?

There were warnings before the attack - 9/11 wasn't the first terrprist attempt. The owner of the towers actually made a loss despite insuring them.

It was done to earn oil money - Why lose billions in economy just to make money back again? For a country so obsessed with money as to claim the lives of its own people, you'd think they'd be a little more efficient.

No-one was in the plane - What about the cell-phone calls?

I could go on, but I can't be bothered. None of the conspiracy theory "evidences" hold any water.

At 9/13/07 06:32 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:
How could you explian 9:5, that says "kill the mushirkeen (associators of partners with God) wherever ye may find them"? Does the verse say "kill the Quraish who broke the treaty", or "just fight in self-defense"?

Under your logic of whipping out a single segment from an entire holy book to determine the religions workings we can say that all jews would let their daughters get raped instead of any male guests who happen to be staying at their inns.

Those bastard jews! They ate all my mana as well!

At 9/11/07 04:09 PM, Smithers555 wrote: Today, during the moment of silence, I realised that the cause of September 11, 2001 was Muslims. If there were no Muslims, the WTC would still stand. Here's my idea. Instead of trying to get rid of the terrorists, use the remaining US forces to kill all the arab Muslims. It would be good in two ways, for us. One- There would be no more terrorists. Two- With everyone in Arabia dead, we would get free oil. It's a really simple, effective plan. Get some RPG's some machine guns, and blow the muslims' heads off! Am I a totally sane, nice person, or what?

So you would basicly like to be the next hitler no? You are stupid THERE are more and more homegrown terrorists. And not all of them are muslim.

At 9/13/07 06:51 AM, DingoTheDog wrote:

At 9/13/07 06:32 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:
How could you explian 9:5, that says "kill the mushirkeen (associators of partners with God) wherever ye may find them"? Does the verse say "kill the Quraish who broke the treaty", or "just fight in self-defense"?

Under your logic of whipping out a single segment from an entire holy book to determine the religions workings we can say that all jews would let their daughters get raped instead of any male guests who happen to be staying at their inns.

Those bastard jews! They ate all my mana as well!

I've read the Qur'an, not just c&ped some random verse. The entire book works to that effect. I've also read a lot of it in Arabic, so I cannot be accused of reading mistranslation. The book is a huge manual of hatred encompassing over 100 ayat preaching hatred and describing, in detail, the agony of the kuffar in jahenam.

I've also read all of the Islamic defenses for this, such as 2:256 (let there be no compulsion in religion) which was abrogated by Surah 9 (the penultamte Surah to be revealed). Trust me mate, you're not dealing with an amature. I'm a an expetionally capable Islamic exegete.

STFU racist.......

1. ur 12

2. we cant find any goddamn terrorists

3. there would be civilian casualties

At 9/13/07 06:56 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:

At 9/13/07 06:51 AM, DingoTheDog wrote:

At 9/13/07 06:32 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:

I've also read all of the Islamic defenses for this, such as 2:256 (let there be no compulsion in religion) which was abrogated by Surah 9 (the penultamte Surah to be revealed). Trust me mate, you're not dealing with an amature. I'm a an expetionally capable Islamic exegete.

So if the book is a huge manual of hatred then why is the vast majority of Muslims peaceful?

Not asking that to be a smart arse. Your are far more in the know than myself on the matter.

You can't blame all Muslims for what the extremist do. I think of myself as a Christian, but not in the organized religion sense. I beleive in God but don't think I need to go to Church and listen to some guy tell me why I should give 10% of all I earn to him. But thats getting off the subject. The point I want to make is that maybe they should have killed off the Christians back wnen they were killing people who did not beleive as they did. Did you know that this is exactly what the Catholic Church did in its founding years? They burned people alive. Hell they still beleive all who don't believe as they do are damned to hell. Maybe we should kill them all now incase they start with their old ways. There are some really good Muslim people in this world, leave them alone.

At 9/13/07 07:09 AM, DingoTheDog wrote:

At 9/13/07 06:56 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:

At 9/13/07 06:51 AM, DingoTheDog wrote: At 9/13/07 06:32 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote::

I've also read all of the Islamic defenses for this, such as 2:256 (let there be no compulsion in religion) which was abrogated by Surah 9 (the penultamte Surah to be revealed). Trust me mate, you're not dealing with an amature. I'm a an expetionally capable Islamic exegete.

So if the book is a huge manual of hatred then why is the vast majority of Muslims peaceful?

Not asking that to be a smart arse. Your are far more in the know than myself on the matter.

Long response, but please read it all!

No probs, it's a fair question. However, you've commited the fallacies of vacuous reasoning and ad populum. Look them up if you don't know what they mean. In any case, that's not the biggest problem with your reasoning:

What you should be asking is - how can the moderates, who perhaps study the Qur'an at whim, compare to extremists, who read nothing but the Qur'an! I should also explain that most (that's right, most) Muslims are wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm an Iraqi, so many confide in me - and I've heard your average peaceful moderates spew immense hatred behind closed doors, even going as far as laughing at beheadings of the kuffar. They're not as peaceful as they seem mate, believe me.

The Qur'an orders that all good conduct be expressed to the Islamic ummah - you should reject your friends and even parents if they are disbelievers. What you should remember is that, as much as they hate it, they are living in a non-Islamic country, so they are exposed to "peaceful" lies about Islam so that Islam can grow without impedement. It must cloak itself behind a peaceful facade to survive. You won't believe how many Muslims actually want sharia (the worse law ever written - look it up).

I'll leave you with this mate. According to the ahadith (historical accounts of Islamic history during Mohammed's life), Mohammed claimed his own father would go to hell because he was not a Muslim, and he condoned the genocide of a group of people called the Quraish (including women and children). I can source this hadith for you if you like.

Peace out.

At 9/13/07 07:23 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:

I'll leave you with this mate. According to the ahadith (historical accounts of Islamic history during Mohammed's life), Mohammed claimed his own father would go to hell because he was not a Muslim, and he condoned the genocide of a group of people called the Quraish (including women and children). I can source this hadith for you if you like.

Peace out.

That was extremely compelling. In truth the less I know the better I feel. I sail on ships as the sole non muslim and if I look into all this I will most likely build a resentment which will result in nothing but trouble for me. The only knowledge of the Qurran I have are the prayer verses. The chaps onboard were particularly insistent that I read the second prayer - I could see why fairly quickly.

...He isn't being serious is he?

At 9/13/07 05:54 AM, JarrodK wrote: Study up, Racism can also refer to a culture or religion. Or any ethnic group for that matter.

Wikipedia doesn't say racism is anti-religion, it just says religion is a part of culture.

The dictionary agrees as do most people in their understanding of racism. If I've got an actual valid reason to disagree with you because of your actual beliefs, that's not racism, and I don't know why you linked me to wikipedia either, perhaps you just thought I wouldn't check it out. Hating Islam isn't hating the brown-skinned race.

Muslims are peaceful in spite of the Qu'ran, imo. There is not one verse in that thing that says anything positive about non-believers or how we should act to non-believers and even the most oft-quote 'thou shall not kill' quote still allows for killing if someone is responsible for 'corruption on the Earth', a particularly vague term.

I don't think many Muslims have done much scholarly work on the Qu'ran, indeed I'd think I've probably read more of it than most Muslims, skimming it in the book shop.

At 9/13/07 07:55 AM, Earfetish wrote: Muslims are peaceful in spite of the Qu'ran, imo. There is not one verse in that thing that says anything positive about non-believers or how we should act to non-believers and even the most oft-quote 'thou shall not kill' quote still allows for killing if someone is responsible for 'corruption on the Earth', a particularly vague term.

I don't think many Muslims have done much scholarly work on the Qu'ran, indeed I'd think I've probably read more of it than most Muslims, skimming it in the book shop.

Indeed, since most of them are muslims by family. I mean, if you take your avarage baptised-at-birth christian, how well would he know about the old testament, or Pauls letters?

Extreme Islam is only as strong it is today because of US interferance. Any secular movements against imperialism in the area were wiped out, but the Islamics would hide behind the holy men, and the fact that they also agreed to fight against the Soviet Union helped a lot.

OMFG man fanatic muslims are to blame not normal muslims!If you wanted to know christians are worst then normal muslim ppl!!!Americans like you should stop being ingorant and read a little history or something get a lil bit educated!Mostly thats why almost all the world hate americans!I'm not saying all americans are assholes but your type of ppl are dumases!SO STOP bieng racist dude!-_-

At 9/13/07 07:23 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote:
Long response, but please read it all!

No probs, it's a fair question. However, you've commited the fallacies of vacuous reasoning and ad populum. Look them up if you don't know what they mean. In any case, that's not the biggest problem with your reasoning:

What you should be asking is - how can the moderates, who perhaps study the Qur'an at whim, compare to extremists, who read nothing but the Qur'an! I should also explain that most (that's right, most) Muslims are wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm an Iraqi, so many confide in me - and I've heard your average peaceful moderates spew immense hatred behind closed doors, even going as far as laughing at beheadings of the kuffar. They're not as peaceful as they seem mate, believe me.

Yeah, we are wolves in sheep clothing. thats why U.S.A soldiers keep annihilating Muslims,eh?Also ur not Iraqi and stfu racist bitch.We dont have hatred to anybody if you dont invade our country and kill our people.

The Qur'an orders that all good conduct be expressed to the Islamic ummah - you should reject your friends and even parents if they are disbelievers. What you should remember is that, as much as they hate it, they are living in a non-Islamic country, so they are exposed to "peaceful" lies about Islam so that Islam can grow without impedement. It must cloak itself behind a peaceful facade to survive. You won't believe how many Muslims actually want sharia (the worse law ever written - look it up).

Well no one wants sharia in Turkey. And Qur'an doesnt say Christians are disbelievers.It says about Atheists, thats what it means by disbelievers.So Qur'an doesnt tell us to slay your country.They are peaceful for sure but you cant say theyre all terrorists because there is an Islamic terror group. and Wow,sure they hate you. you seized their country and raped thir children and women. thats what your soldiers are. complete shit. What about your catholic shits? they burnt anyone whoever isnt Catholic.

I'll leave you with this mate. According to the ahadith (historical accounts of Islamic history during Mohammed's life), Mohammed claimed his own father would go to hell because he was not a Muslim, and he condoned the genocide of a group of people called the Quraish (including women and children). I can source this hadith for you if you like.

Mohamed did said so because his father worshipped statues,this is Atheism because worshipping statues means they dont believe in Allah(god) and worships objects instead of Allah. and Allah(god) ordered him to say his father will be in hell by sending Cebrael(the messenger angel) Also he didnt ordered to destroy Quarish. only information you will find is fake and written by Islam-haters like you. And if you dont believe that Cebrael talked with Mohammed, then it wasnt jesus talking in his mother's body,it was playback, and Jesus' mother wasnt pregnant by miracle of Allah,she got raped eh?

Peace out.

No,You PEACE out.

This thread is fantastic.

I shouldn't be replying to this pathetic screed, but might as well. This typical hot-headed rude Muslim's proven my point.

Yeah, we are wolves in sheep clothing. thats why U.S.A soldiers keep annihilating Muslims,eh?Also ur not Iraqi and stfu racist bitch.We dont have hatred to anybody if you dont invade our country and kill our people.

Whine all you want, I'm an Iraqi - and I couldn't care less if a rude little troll like you believes me. What have I said that's even remotely racist?

The Americans, unlike the mujahideen, do not kill civilians in cold blood. In any case, your post had nothing to do with the "wolves in sheep's clothing" comment.

Well no one wants sharia in Turkey.

Did I say all did?

And Qur'an doesnt say Christians are disbelievers. It says about Atheists, thats what it means by disbelievers.

It says that Christians worship Jesus and Mary beside God, and that Jews take Ezra to be the son of God; that makes them mushirkeen. Do you know what mushirkeen even means, or are you wasting my time?

So Qur'an doesnt tell us to slay your country.

What?

They are peaceful for sure but you cant say theyre all terrorists because there is an Islamic terror group. and Wow,sure they hate you. you seized their country and raped thir children and women. thats what your soldiers are. complete shit. What about your catholic shits? they burnt anyone whoever isnt Catholic.

Spurting the usual anti-Americanisms, I see. Why do they kill innocent civilians (including Iraqi police recruits) for the war-crimes of a handful of soldiers? Besides, most of the mujahideen are Egyptian/Jordanian.

Mohamed did said so because his father worshipped statues,this is Atheism

No it's not, it's polytheism. Hubal was a God.

because worshipping statues means they dont believe in Allah(god) and worships objects instead of Allah. and Allah(god) ordered him to say his father will be in hell by sending Cebrael(the messenger angel) Also he didnt ordered to destroy Quarish. only information you will find is fake and written by Islam-haters like you.

"It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them." {Sahih Muslim B19 #4321}

"Then came Abu Sufyan and said: Messenger of Allah, the blood of the Quraish has become very cheap. There will be no Quraish from this day on" {Sahih Muslim B19 #4395}

And if you dont believe that Cebrael talked with Mohammed, then it wasnt jesus talking in his mother's body,it was playback, and Jesus' mother wasnt pregnant by miracle of Allah,she got raped eh?

What's Christianity got to do with this? I'm not a Christian.

No,You PEACE out.

Huh?

Your theroys are flawed. All that would do is start a WW3 and we would all nucke ouselfes out of exestince. Humans do evil horribale bad shit...it's just our way. If you exterminate a whole race you are worse than the terroists. VA killer...had a purpose, commited and controlled. Imagine what two of him could have done at Columbine.Fuck. He was a fuckin pussy he did not even have a shootout with the cops. had to kill himself like a litttle bitch.

This is an alt, but that's like saying we should kill all Germans because of the Nazi party, or we should kill all Americans because of the Ku Klux Klan.

At 9/11/07 04:09 PM, Smithers555 wrote: Today, during the moment of silence, I realised that the cause of September 11, 2001 was Muslims. If there were no Muslims, the WTC would still stand. Here's my idea. Instead of trying to get rid of the terrorists, use the remaining US forces to kill all the arab Muslims. It would be good in two ways, for us. One- There would be no more terrorists. Two- With everyone in Arabia dead, we would get free oil. It's a really simple, effective plan. Get some RPG's some machine guns, and blow the muslims' heads off! Am I a totally sane, nice person, or what?

And you know what?
Without Jews, there would be no Christians, and without Christians, there would be no Muslims!
And hell, without religon there would be no Jews!
Lets kill all the religious people to prevent 911!

At 9/13/07 09:38 AM, Vousielle wrote: And you know what?
Without Jews, there would be no Christians, and without Christians, there would be no Muslims!
And hell, without religon there would be no Jews!
Lets kill all the religious people to prevent 911!

Let's take this even further.... Without people there wouldn't be religious people, and without the planet earth there wouldn't be people. I propose we go back in time and destroy the planet, therefore preventing 9/11, that'll show'em.

your one dum SOB you know that dum hillbillly fuck

At 9/13/07 10:11 AM, Lastin wrote: This guy is obviously ignorant and a douchebag. He doesnt see the real truth. And Muslims are everywhere, sure he can spam this here in the net, but when he says this out loud he's a dead man

Was that supposed to be a defense of Islam?

to livebreathetom no dont invade england
england had a great empire we had hong kong,scotland,ireland,we still have a part of canada

At 9/11/07 04:09 PM, Smithers555 wrote: Today, during the moment of silence, I realised that the cause of September 11, 2001 was Muslims. If there were no Muslims, the WTC would still stand. Here's my idea. Instead of trying to get rid of the terrorists, use the remaining US forces to kill all the arab Muslims. It would be good in two ways, for us. One- There would be no more terrorists. Two- With everyone in Arabia dead, we would get free oil. It's a really simple, effective plan. Get some RPG's some machine guns, and blow the muslims' heads off! Am I a totally sane, nice person, or what?

don't look at every muslim as the same you mother fucker! do you think all muslims are terrorists? and you are not a sane and nice person! Mother fuckers like you have already caused a second world war so just go kill ur self u phatetic, fanatical, lonely racist!

At 9/13/07 08:36 AM, Uxorious-Widow wrote: I shouldn't be replying to this pathetic screed, but might as well. This typical hot-headed rude Muslim's proven my point.:

Whine all you want, I'm an Iraqi - and I couldn't care less if a rude little troll like you believes me. What have I said that's even remotely racist?

that we're wolves in sheep clothing. and that we are actually NOT peaceful. you mean we all muslims are actually potential terrorist.

The Americans, unlike the mujahideen, do not kill civilians in cold blood. In any case, your post had nothing to do with the "wolves in sheep's clothing" comment.

no my post had something to do with that comment. you mean actually muslims are fiendish people that love to terrorize others,but hide it and kill people whenever they can. also if american soldiers dont kill them with cold blood,what they do? torturing people all ways a person can do then killing them without reason is what? i think you must ask this to brave u.s. soldiers. and you say they dont kill people like cold blooded killers,then do they say this before they kill? : "i am sorry but i will torture you with hot water,rape your wife and strangle your children. i am sorry."

Well no one wants sharia in Turkey.

Did I say all did?

wow,you can be a good politic eh?

And Qur'an doesnt say Christians are disbelievers. It says about Atheists, thats what it means by disbelievers.

It says that Christians worship Jesus and Mary beside God, and that Jews take Ezra to be the son of God; that makes them mushirkeen. Do you know what mushirkeen even means, or are you wasting my time?

no i am not wasting your time, i know what it means. than God, as far as all christians i know worship God, not Jesus. Jesus is a prophet, as Mohammed is. And we dont worship Mohammad.And Christians i know dont worship Jesus. No comment about jews since i dont know about their religion well.

So Qur'an doesnt tell us to slay your country.

What?

I am %100 positive youre american. go ahead,follow the steps of bush and disguise as a Iraqian.

Spurting the usual anti-Americanisms, I see. Why do they kill innocent civilians (including Iraqi police recruits) for the war-crimes of a handful of soldiers? Besides, most of the mujahideen are Egyptian/Jordanian.

Hmm i have no problems with civilians of America. i think i have problem with Bush and Anti-Islam faggotts of u.s.a. And why do they kill civilians? i dont know this,its not all Islam world making the massacre,its Islam terror organizations. There are also Christian terror organizations,so stfu.

Mohamed did said so because his father worshipped statues,this is Atheism

No it's not, it's polytheism. Hubal was a God.

In mythology.

"It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them." {Sahih Muslim B19 #4321}

"Then came Abu Sufyan and said: Messenger of Allah, the blood of the Quraish has become very cheap. There will be no Quraish from this day on" {Sahih Muslim B19 #4395}

go on, find more stories. i know its completely fake.

And if you dont believe that Cebrael talked with Mohammed, then it wasnt jesus talking in his mother's body,it was playback, and Jesus' mother wasnt pregnant by miracle of Allah,she got raped eh?

What's Christianity got to do with this? I'm not a Christian.

Giving examples as you are very likely to refuse the case.

and i hope you take my words serious as i am 15 next month and youre 18 it seems.

At 9/13/07 01:46 PM, Wyvern-Knight wrote: and i hope you take my words serious as i am 15 next month and youre 18 it seems.

hows about you quote some Qu'ranic verses that say it's not alright to kill unbelievers and those who challenge Islam?

Muslims are nice, Islam isn't. Imo.