Everything's America's Fault.

[Necrothesis]

-Who armed Saddam Hussein?
-Who empowed Osama Bin Laden and trained his men?
-Who slaughtered the unsuspecting Spanish Navy for a crime they weren't proven to have committed?
-Who covered Vietnam with 900,000 unexploded cluster bombs, smothered the countryside with Agent Orange, and murdered countless innocent Vietnamese civilians, all for nothing?
-Who raped and sacked the towns and villages of the Boxer Chinese revolutionaries, some 625 innocents?
-Who incinerated Japan and it's people with weapons they now beleive to be "atrocious", and let countless others die from the aftermath?
-And who killed 337,000 Japanese civilians in conventional firebombing raids?
-Who also murdered a further 372,000 European civilians in conventional bombing raids in WW2, many of which were not even citizens of the enemy nation, but rather the conquered and helpless who wished to be freed?
-Who let over one million German POWs starve to death in concentration camps, which they condemned the Nazis for having?
-Who commited genocide of the American Indians and Black slaves in incalculable numbers?
-Who financed and supported the genocides of the Guatemalean Army throughout the 70's and 80's that resulted in the deaths of over a hundred thousand innocents?

America the bloodthirsty, that's who.

You frown on Hitler and Stalin, but in truth, you make them look like amateurs. And nobody speaks out against you, because of this false image of kindness you project.
But beware, because the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

[SpEeDFiReSrFr]

I'm sure, everything's our fault.

Sarcasm intended.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/13/03 11:39 AM, Necrothesis wrote: -Who armed Saddam Hussein?

You mean the french mirage fighter's that comprised the entire Iraqi Air Suporirity force, that they were equipted with after the Persian Gulf conflict, even though it was a breach of U.N. accords?

Or did you mean the munitions that were given in the 80's in the Iran-Iraq conflict?

-Who covered Vietnam with 900,000 unexploded cluster bombs, smothered the countryside with Agent Orange, and murdered countless innocent Vietnamese civilians, all for nothing?

The french?

Oh and then the Americans 10 years later. (But it's all the Americans fault)

-Who raped and sacked the towns and villages of the Boxer Chinese revolutionaries, some 625 innocents?

The British French and Americans

-Who incinerated Japan and it's people with weapons they now beleive to be "atrocious", and let countless others die from the aftermath?

Who invaded Japan leading to the genocide of it's entire people considering that Tokogawa refused to surrender against conventional weapons, which lead to a seperation of communist Russian Japan and British/American Japan?

Ohh that's right, it was averted.

-And who killed 337,000 Japanese civilians in conventional firebombing raids?

Yeah and then after that, the Japanese were so mad that the Americans (who attacked them 2 years after they started the war, at Pearl Harbor by buying their own ships with Japanese bombers) that retroactively the Japanese went back and slaughtered more people in Nan King than the deaths at Hiroshima, but they did it the ol' fashioned way. Damn those American bastards.

-Who also murdered a further 372,000 European civilians in conventional bombing raids in WW2, many of which were not even citizens of the enemy nation, but rather the conquered and helpless who wished to be freed?

Lets see, the British, Russians, Americans, and to a lesser degree Canadians and French.

-Who commited genocide of the American Indians and Black slaves in incalculable numbers?

The Spanish first and to the largest degree

then the British

then the French (to a much lesser degree)

and then the Americans

DAMN THOSE AMERICANS AND BEING UNILATERALLY AT FAULT FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO INCLUDING THINGS THAT OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE DONE BEFORE THEY EVER EXISTED!!!

h8 amerikah bcuz disagreing with the majority = open minded

[TheTio]

Yeah, whatever, you use that sarcasm and ruin a perfectly good post then

Anyway, I think his point was (and if it wasnt, then mine is) that America is by no means innocent, your hands are just as dirty as everyone elses so its a plea to your country to stop acting like the avenging angel and realise your part of this world, and not above the rest of us

Goodbye

[BWS]

At 7/13/03 11:39 AM, Necrothesis wrote:

But beware, because the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

The only problem is that unless our country is destroyed with nuclear warheads, we will never give up. Us Americans fight each other over petty issues; do you think we would listen to a government that tried to take away our freedoms? We would never allow such a thing, and we would fight to the death if our country was ever invaded. Nobody would nuke us that bad either because unfortunatley it would result in the destruction of mankind.

[aviewaskewed]

I'd just like to add something quick about Japan. Has anyone ever heard of consequentialist moral reasoning?

Basically, you do something based on the consequences of the action. We dropped two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki respectively because if we had just invaded Japan and fought the old fashioned way, casualty rates would be extremely high on BOTH sides. The Japanese had a mentality where they would not surrender, that death was in fact better than surrender (see Kamikazee's). President Truman decided to drop the bombs to force Japan into a surrender and save more lives than those that would be ended, he also had leaflets dropped before the bombing informing the citizens what would happen if they're government did not surrender, and that they should leave the area. But than, I guess that's what all heartless animals do right?

I understand people who get pissed when America acts like it's been totally victimized by the world...but just about everybody else screwed up the same way America did when faced with similar situations, everybody has blood on their hands. But using the A-Bomb to make America look like scum is a tired ass example and shows that people just really don't do their homework sometimes with threads like these.

America is the world's only superpower, America declared itself to be the police state of the world therefore it is only logical to hold America responsible of its actions on a global level.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/13/03 11:53 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: America is the world's only superpower, America declared itself to be the police state of the world therefore it is only logical to hold America responsible of its actions on a global level.

Sure I agree, here's my problem though...I think America gets whacked a little too much...I mean, Britain had a hand in this war with Iraq, but who do you see everybody jumping on? America, not that Bush and company don't deserve it but...hey, let's put EVERYBODY involved under the microscope is what I'm saying. Fair is fair, everybody needs to be held responsible for their actions at the global level.

Yeah, I know but America gets criticized more than any other country because America does stupid/greedy things more than any other country. Every country is criticized accordingly.

[Commander-K25]

At 7/13/03 11:53 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: America is the world's only superpower, America declared itself to be the police state of the world therefore it is only logical to hold America responsible of its actions on a global level.

So that makes it the world's scapegoat.

At 7/14/03 12:46 AM, Commander-K25 wrote:

So that makes it the world's scapegoat.

Only when it affects the whole world. ^_^

[the-collective]

its also our fault the UN is around

[Ted-Easton]

Gotta hate the UN.
What have those scheming bastards done for anyone in the last half century? What with all the wars they started...

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/14/03 10:29 AM, Ted_Easton wrote: Gotta hate the UN.
What have those scheming bastards done for anyone in the last half century? What with all the wars they started...

You really, really, really need to work on your sarcasm and subtlty.

[Ted-Easton]

I'm trying to avoid subtlety.
I have my doubts that a person who says it's the US' "fault" that the UN was created would respond to it.

[JMHX]

I can agree with a few, a few of those points, but some just seem so incredibly ignorant that it makes me want to punch a pepperoni through your head. Sorry, I was watching a flash animation. Anyway, it's not as if the United States single-handedly accomplished all of these. We had enough allies along the way -- the French, England -- not to say that it makes us any less responsible for some of the things on that list, but it makes it seem as if America has been the sole 'bad guy' of the twentieth century. That will just not do.

As Ted, Commander, and so many have said in the past, the actions against slaves and indians were by no means right or just, but they are so far in the past that it's lost all purpose to bring them up. There is nothing that can be done to reverse this, no one who was alive when the two genocides happened -- it's just a moot point. We can whine and complain all we wish, but that's just going to rub it in to people who are descended from native americans or black slaves. So just shut up about it and let us move on as a nation.

[D2Kvirus]

What's this shit - if in doubt, blame the FRENCH?!? Great, borrow a page out of the book of Jimswhine, always a good way to further debate.

That's sarcasm, amateurs...

[the-collective]

i was joking the un would b nothing with out the us

Yeah, you're right let's pretend America is perfect and never killed millions of innocents. We'll feel a lot better when we pledge allegiance.

Lest We Forget. HA! What a joke.

[misterx2000]

Yeah I noticed how native American "Indians" are now a minority in their own country...and get this...SOME Americans are prejudiced against their forefathers, like surprise surprise, the British, Dutch, French, Portunguese...

They seem to forget that if you're not a native American, then you're a migrant!

[the-collective]

do you really think all americans are the in the way they think

[the-collective]

and america isnt the only place that has racisum

[7Cros]

Nacrethisis or who ever the topic starter is
YOU sir, are a masturbating fachot, n00b. Everything is Your fault. The world would not be like this if
your Mom would have gotten in abortion like I told her dumbass!!! Damned n00bs...

Here have this, my one-track minded little pussyfart.

[Explodapop]

But USA have done a lot of good things too! So it evens out. Although I can't think of anything major right now...

At 7/17/03 02:36 PM, -Pzy- wrote: But USA have done a lot of good things too!

A lot? No. No they haven't.

[TheTio]

At 7/17/03 02:36 PM, -Pzy- wrote: But USA have done a lot of good things too! So it evens out. Although I can't think of anything major right now...

Bahahaha, this is my new sig for sure
Quality

[Commander-K25]

At 7/18/03 12:36 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: A lot? No. No they haven't.

Rebuilding Europe after World War II?

Leading the democratic nations in the Cold War and resisting dictatorial communism?

Giving massive amounts of foreign aid and then forgiving many of the debts?

Being one of the top countries in the world for technology and innovation, giving us much of our modern technology?

Wait a moment before you respond, though. I know that you’ll find some way to explain away all these things, but that’s exactly my point: Your belief that America is always wrong leads you to see only one side of the picture.

America helped Europe rebuild? — Must have been some kind of plot.
America gives lots of foreign aid? — Must be a hidden agenda.

You have a preconceived idea that America has always been and always will be wrong and thus, your cynicism will twist or change anything to support that idea.

When thinking about America remember: "There are two sides to everything, so what is more likely, that America always wrong and destructive, or that I’m only choosing to see one side of the picture."

I said they didn't do a lot of good things.
I didn't say that they didn't do anything good.

Yes, America has helped many but it has exploited many more.

[misterx2000]

At 7/18/03 01:40 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: I said they didn't do a lot of good things.
I didn't say that they didn't do anything good.

Yes, America has helped many but it has exploited many more.

Well actually, America has done some good. It's not in the media, so no one knows about it. Sigh...

I mean, they send aid to a few dozen countries (less after that Int'l Court immunity refusal thing), are reconstructing two countries, and get involved (sometimes needlessly) in conflicts around the globe. Most of these wouldn't have threatened the homeland, but they did it anyway: Kosovo, Bosnia...

OK so not everything should be resolved by force. But at least there's someone to look to when you need leverage in a heated debate.

[Cyric16]

What do you expect?
We're America, we should be aloud to blow things up!