Americans and immigration.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030710.asp

Can you believe these numbers? 47%!! and this is coming from the people whose ancestors came here on boats and stole land from Natives.

Hypocrisy anyone?

[Mr-Chuckles]

Well maybe 47% believe in the myths that immigrants are more likely to commit crime, take jobs away from Americans(although some do, a majority do jobs Americans don't want), or maybe the people polled are racist are racist. It could be a mixture of a lot of things.

[swayside]

At 7/12/03 11:39 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Hypocrisy anyone?

don't you dare compare these people to the origional settlers in a bad (or even a good) way. personaly i don't have a problem with immigration, but if i did, it wouldn't hypocritical of me just because of anything my ancestors did. i am not who they were, and i will not be held accountable for anything they did.

[FUNKbrs]

Damn Crossbreed, that shit is insane. I mean, we are a country FOUNDED on open immigration laws. I guess we HAVE forgotten what's written of the statue of liberty after all.....

[swayside]

At 7/12/03 06:44 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: Damn Crossbreed, that shit is insane. I mean, we are a country FOUNDED on open immigration laws. I guess we HAVE forgotten what's written of the statue of liberty after all.....

since you obviously don't agree with a limited immigration law, why do you say 'we have forgoten'? are you one of those people? if you mean 'we' as in americans, i'm one, too, and that would mean you're calling me one. i don't appreciate that very much...

[JMHX]

Ah, let the immigrants in. We could always use a population boost since we're slated for world underpopulation anyway.

At 7/12/03 06:44 PM, swayside wrote:

don't you dare compare these people to the origional settlers in a bad (or even a good) way.

Why not? "These people" are original settlers only they're a few years late.

personaly i don't have a problem with immigration, but if i did, it wouldn't hypocritical of me just because of anything my ancestors did. i am not who they were, and i will not be held accountable for anything they did.

You are not who they were but because of them immigrating to America you now live in the world's most powerful country. Some people would want to deny that right to other people and that makes me want to laugh and puke at the same time. Your ancestors were allowed to come to America but other people shouldn't be allowed to come to America because you were here in the first (second) place? That, my friend is hypocrisy.

[DrxFeelgood]

At 7/12/03 11:39 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Can you believe these numbers? 47%!! and this is coming from the people whose ancestors came here on boats and stole land from Natives. Hypocrisy anyone?

Uh, no. You see, it was ok to do this way back in the day, like from 1400's to 1800's. But anything after is bad. You see, most of my family moved here right before the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. And I have Ojibwa ancestors. So I have hell of good reason to be here, and what it means to be a true American, unlike most today. How many can say they have Native American Indian in their blood?? Not many. It sucks what happened to the Natvie Americans, but I can't control it, or do anything about that, but I understand their situation. But people coming into here today are drug dealers, thieves, harmful, illegal aliens, and terrorist fucks that need to be sent back where from they came. I feel this needs to be emphisized alot more right now, because it is hell of alot more important than having stupid cry babies bitch because they don't like Bush. I hope Bush cracks down on immigration laws. Watch what they do if they come here, and not fuck anythin gup, and not cheat the gov't out of money. They are letting in too many middle easterners who cheat the gov't out of money and cause problems here (terrorism). It needs to stop. Oh, but it's ok to let these assholes in, and look what they do after we let them come here. That pisses me off.

[Commander-K25]

Just because we once had very open immigration does not mean that we can continue that policy forever.

Times change and sometimes policies must change to reflect that.

Personally, I think that the immigration levels are fine as they are, but I don't yell 'hypocrisy' because many people think they should be changed.

[swayside]

At 7/12/03 08:44 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Your ancestors were allowed to come to America but other people shouldn't be allowed to come to America because you were here in the first (second) place? That, my friend is hypocrisy.

mabey it would be if it were the origional immagrants saying this, but since it's not, so it's not hypocrisy (no matter how pigheaded). these people didn't immigrate to this country, so while there race isn't, they are native to america. they have just as much right to their anti-immagrational opinion as racial native americans (and i doubt you feel the same way about them).

At 7/13/03 01:25 AM, 70TA wrote:

But people coming into here today are drug dealers, thieves, harmful, illegal aliens, and terrorist fucks that need to be sent back where from they came.

Yeah? Prove it to me

I feel this needs to be emphisized alot more right now, because it is hell of alot more important than having stupid cry babies bitch because they don't like Bush. I hope Bush cracks down on immigration laws. Watch what they do if they come here, and not fuck anythin gup, and not cheat the gov't out of money.

Give me examples.

They are letting in too many middle easterners who cheat the gov't out of money and cause problems here (terrorism).

That was a dozen of individuals out of THOUSANDS. Those who bombed Oklahoma city were white, should we deport all white people?

It needs to stop. Oh, but it's ok to let these assholes in, and look what they do after we let them come here. That pisses me off.

They get a job? BOO-FUCKING-HOO. If you're talking about terrorists, look at Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh and Charles Manson, they're all terrorists, yet they're White. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? MY COUNTRY THIS OF THEE! AMERICA CANNOT HAVE HOMEGROWN TERRORISTS! I BLAME FOREIGNERS FOR ALL OF MY TROUBLES!

At 7/13/03 09:37 AM, swayside wrote:

mabey it would be if it were the origional immagrants saying this, but since it's not, so it's not hypocrisy (no matter how pigheaded). these people didn't immigrate to this country, so while there race isn't, they are native to america. they have just as much right to their anti-immagrational opinion as racial native americans (and i doubt you feel the same way about them).

See, if it wasn't for their ancestors coming here and stealing the land of the true natives, they'd still be in Europe and now they want to deny that right to other people. Furthermore, Native Americans are real natives become they were here all long, they did not come from a magic land bridge 11 500 years as opposed to the propaganda in your textbooks.

By the way, don't claim that Native Americans have anti-immigration views because I doubt you know all the Natives in America.

This is the perfect definition of hypocrisy and double standards.

[DrxFeelgood]

At 7/14/03 02:04 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Yeah? Prove it to me

Where have you been you're whole life? Um, it's called drug trafficing, people trying to be smuggled in here every day by any means what so ever! which occurs primarily in the southern and western parts of the country. That's just a sliver of what goes on.

I feel this needs to be emphisized alot more right now, because it is hell of alot more important than having stupid cry babies bitch because they don't like Bush. I hope Bush cracks down on immigration laws. Watch what they do if they come here, and not fuck anything up, and not cheat the gov't out of money.

Give me examples.

When someone who was never been here before, who can't even speak English, comes over here to take up managment of their cousin's party store or gas station, or whatever, doesn't have to pay taxes for many years while owning that place, then when their "turn" is up, they just pass it along to another cousin of their's, and continues to fuck over the gov't of money. Now that is really screwin the gov't and us hard working, real Americans out of our hard earned money. Last time I checked, us real Americans have to pay our taxes, it's part of our life here. Those of us who were born and raised and have roots here have to pay our dues, and yet some one who was never a part of us before, walks in here, and decides to live here, gets to take our money and it's ok, while us, true Americans bust our ass, and don't get these priveledges. That, my friend is wrong!

They are letting in too many middle easterners who cheat the gov't out of money and cause problems here (terrorism).

That was a dozen of individuals out of THOUSANDS. Those who bombed Oklahoma city were white, should we deport all white people?

In your dreams.

It needs to stop. Oh, but it's ok to let these assholes in, and look what they do after we let them come here. That pisses me off.

If you're talking about terrorists, look at Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh and Charles Manson, they're all terrorists, yet they're White.

3 people. Do you have anything against white people, or them being white? There's a hell of alot more non white terrorists than that. Look at those fucks conspiring against us, over seas.

At 7/14/03 02:25 AM, 70TA wrote:

Where have you been you're whole life? Um, it's called drug trafficing, people trying to be smuggled in here every day by any means what so ever! which occurs primarily in the southern and western parts of the country. That's just a sliver of what goes on.

Uhm ok, so mexicans try to come here to get a job? wow. And drugs are imported to America? wow x 2. By the way, the CIA is the one that imported drugs in the first place to eliminate the Black Panther Party.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/propagandhi/churchill19.shtml

When someone who was never been here before, who can't even speak English, comes over here to take up managment of their cousin's party store or gas station, or whatever, doesn't have to pay taxes for many years while owning that place, then when their "turn" is up, they just pass it along to another cousin of their's, and continues to fuck over the gov't of money. Now that is really screwin the gov't and us hard working, real Americans out of our hard earned money. Last time I checked, us real Americans have to pay our taxes, it's part of our life here. Those of us who were born and raised and have roots here have to pay our dues, and yet some one who was never a part of us before, walks in here, and decides to live here, gets to take our money and it's ok, while us, true Americans bust our ass, and don't get these priveledges. That, my friend is wrong!

Gas station? What in the HELL are you talking about? Most, if not all of these people don't have jack shit when they come to North America. By the way, did your founding fathers pay taxes to Native Americans and speak their language? NO! So lay off the hypocrisy, will ya?

In your dreams.

Then why deport the non-whites and not the whites?

3 people. Do you have anything against white people, or them being white? There's a hell of alot more non white terrorists than that. Look at those fucks conspiring against us, over seas.

UH LOOK AT THOSE NAZIS CONSPIRING AGAINST US! THOSE FUCKS! I'm saying that there are White terrorists, there are Arab terrorists, there are Asian terrorists and so on. I'm pointing that racisl profiling or even racism isn't worth shit. If I'm not mistaken there was a shitload more Nazis than there are Islam fundamentalists.

[DrxFeelgood]

At 7/14/03 02:51 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Gas station? What in the HELL are you talking about?

Yeah, gas stations. One Arab buys it, runs it for x amount of years, not having to pay taxes, then when his time is up, he brings his brother here to pick up after him, so now the new owner doesn't have to pay taxes for another x years, and so on and so on. This accumulates and they have more money than us real Americans who do pay taxes, bust our ass, and yet don't get as much. It's bullshit, and it pisses me off everytime I hear about it. They cheat the gov't by passing along the establishment to the next family member, thus screwing to gov't by not having to pay taxes. That's what I'm talking about. And alot of this BS goes on in Michigan because Michigan has the largest Arab population in the US, sadly. And I'm seeing them pass us buy in only a few years, only to have lived here for a few years, where as my ancestors have been here for like 200 years, and we don't get that same benefit. It's a shame.

Most, if not all of these people don't have jack shit when they come to North America.

Apparently not, at least Middle Easterners.

[ninjah]

70TA = paranoid racist?

[swayside]

At 7/14/03 02:14 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

At 7/13/03 09:37 AM, swayside wrote:

See, if it wasn't for their ancestors coming here and stealing the land of the true natives, they'd still be in Europe

not nescessarily so. not everyone in this country that isn't of the native american race is decended from those people. would you feel the same about a black man decended from an african who was forced to come here during the slavery age as you do a white guy decended from an 'indian killing settler' if he wanted to reduce immigration?

and now they want to deny that right to other people.

what makes it a right to come into this country? (it's an honest question. i just want to know what you think)

Furthermore, Native Americans are real natives become they were here all long, they did not come from a magic land bridge 11 500 years as opposed to the propaganda in your textbooks.

there's a lot of propaganda in my textbooks that i pay no mind to.

By the way, don't claim that Native Americans have anti-immigration views because I doubt you know all the Natives in America.

i never said that all of them do. i said that anyone born in this country should have as much right as native americans to want to limit immigration.

This is the perfect definition of hypocrisy and double standards.

sorry, but no it's not...

[dudeitsallama]

At 7/14/03 04:22 AM, 70TA wrote:

At 7/14/03 02:51 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Gas station? What in the HELL are you talking about?

Yeah, gas stations. One Arab buys it, runs it for x amount of years, not having to pay taxes, then when his time is up, he brings his brother here to pick up after him, so now the new owner doesn't have to pay taxes for another x years, and so on and so on. This accumulates and they have more money than us real Americans who do pay taxes, bust our ass, and yet don't get as much. It's bullshit, and it pisses me off everytime I hear about it. They cheat the gov't by passing along the establishment to the next family member, thus screwing to gov't by not having to pay taxes. That's what I'm talking about. And alot of this BS goes on in Michigan because Michigan has the largest Arab population in the US, sadly. And I'm seeing them pass us buy in only a few years, only to have lived here for a few years, where as my ancestors have been here for like 200 years, and we don't get that same benefit. It's a shame.

So you hate an entire ethnic group because you know of some guy that *gasp* bought a gas station? He's not hurting anyone. It's not his fault that you're jealous of him. You're ancestors had 200 years to build a family fortune. They didn't. Too bad. Sucks for you. It's not our problem and definitely not the Middle Eastern guy's problem.

Most, if not all of these people don't have jack shit when they come to North America.

Apparently not, at least Middle Easterners.

So the logic is that all Middle Easterners are rich because you know of some guy who bought a gas station. You're an idiot.

[DrxFeelgood]

At 7/14/03 02:30 PM, dudeitsallama wrote:

So the logic is that all Middle Easterners are rich because you know of some guy who bought a gas station. You're an idiot.

No, you're obviously too stupid to understand it, so forget about it.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/12/03 11:39 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030710.asp

Can you believe these numbers? 47%!! and this is coming from the people whose ancestors came here on boats and stole land from Natives.

Yeah really. Name one other nation that has done that.

I mean the angles came over on ships (love ships) and traded blankets, beads, and cookies to the romanized celts, picks, and poles, for their land.

Charlemange won the kingdom of the franks in a poker match.

The Spanish Reconquista was actually just a joke. (The muslims thought it was a "dapper jolly")

The Tartars actually Invited Ivan the terrible to kill them. (Apprently, they were all goths or some shit like that)

All of those nations have nothing like the "INS" except for in their case their laws are more "Stringent" and "Less accepting", but what does this really all mean? We should disregard it, because if we didn't then you would look like an angsty moronic dork who wants to Complain about America doing something that every other nation in the world does, to make you look rebelious, pro-active, and slightly intelligent.

At 7/14/03 04:22 AM, 70TA wrote:

Yeah, gas stations. One Arab buys it, runs it for x amount of years, not having to pay taxes, then when his time is up, he brings his brother here to pick up after him

They don't do that.

Apparently not, at least Middle Easterners.

Yay for prejudices!

At 7/14/03 02:03 PM, swayside wrote:

At 7/14/03 02:14 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

would you feel the same about a black man decended from an african who was forced to come here during the slavery age as you do a white guy decended from an 'indian killing settler' if he wanted to reduce immigration?

Yes I would, if you're here because of immigrants, you're a hypocrite if you don't want more immigrants in "your" country.

what makes it a right to come into this country? (it's an honest question. i just want to know what you think)

Here's what the UN thinks.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

i never said that all of them do. i said that anyone born in this country should have as much right as native americans to want to limit immigration.

Americans are here because of immigration. Native Americans aren't here because of immigration. I don't see why they have as much right to limit immigration.

sorry, but no it's not...

Please elaborate.

[JMHX]

I borrow this from a road sign on the highway. I believe it fits in perfectly with the state of immigration in America. Let it sink in:

Let em' Work. Let em' Live. Be respectful to roadside workers.

[swayside]

At 7/14/03 09:28 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

At 7/14/03 02:03 PM, swayside wrote:

At 7/14/03 02:14 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

Yes I would, if you're here because of immigrants, you're a hypocrite if you don't want more immigrants in "your" country.

so you think that something neither decendant type change should decide the validitly of their argument? that's rediculous. if you are an american your opinionational validity should only depend on yourself, not the actions of other people that you happen to be decended from.

what makes it a right to come into this country? (it's an honest question. i just want to know what you think)

Here's what the UN thinks.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

did you not hear me when i said, "i just want to know what you think"? i don't care what the un has to say. i want to hear your opinion on this.

i never said that all of them do. i said that anyone born in this country should have as much right as native americans to want to limit immigration.

Native Americans aren't here because of immigration.

explain that.

sorry, but no it's not...

Please elaborate.

i have been all along.

At 7/15/03 06:45 PM, swayside wrote:

so you think that something neither decendant type change should decide the validitly of their argument? that's rediculous. if you are an american your opinionational validity should only depend on yourself, not the actions of other people that you happen to be decended from.

If it wasn't for immigrants, America wouldn't even exist so what right do people have by wanting to stop immigration to America?

did you not hear me when i said, "i just want to know what you think"? i don't care what the un has to say. i want to hear your opinion on this.

Because without the right of immigration, people's lives are endagered. That's what makes it a right.
Anywho, the U.N. made it a right so who gives a hoot about what I think?

explain that.

They were supposed to have come here 11 500-12 000 years ago by following herds of animals across the Bering Strait but "recent" archeological findings have been dated as old as 200 000 years.

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf051/sf051a01.htm
http://www.calverley.ca/Part01-FirstNations/01-006.html
http://www.cabrillo.cc.ca.us/~crsmith/firstamer.html

[Ninja-Scientist]

I have to be for stricter immigration laws now.

You have to understand that I live in California (LA), and there are more people that immigrate to California from other countries or states than are born here natively. This is really REALLY bad, because right now, more people come to California than are born here each year, so my state is getting horrifically overpopulated. And it gets worse each year.

In just a few years, the traffic has gotten so bad here, I can't even begin to tell you. @_o' And less than half of the drivers on the road are native born Californians. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not against immigration entirely. In fact, that's what makes my state so diverce. However, to the extent it's getting, I understand how people really want to start closing CA's borders (this talk is going on among all Californians now, even those who recently moved here themselves).

My point is, while we all were related to immigrants at one time, we have to look at what's going on with the US right now. When my great great great great ancestors came here, immigration wasn't that much of a problem (exluding places like NY), however, right now it IS getting to be a problem. The US just can't take any more people. I also read somewhere that almost just as much people immigrate to the US than are born natively hear as well each year. @_o' That means that for every kid you have in your lifetime, there's going to be another person immigrating here.

If it keeps going at this same state, the US might wind up with a population problem similar to China. @_o' lol.

In fact, another reason why I dislike the massive waves of immigration in California and the US in general is because, when population goes up (especially in a small area), so does crime. Also, unfortunately, not being native born can affect the success of many illegal immigrants here, and we often wind up with greater poverty in some areas as well (which isn't their fault, it's just hard to get a good job sometimes if you can't speak English well). And, more than anything, as the population goes up drastically each year, more and more of our natural resources are used up just to give these people room to live comfortably. In California, for example, they bulldoze mountains by my house every month @_o' No joke! And there is still not enough room for everyone (housing is still not what it should be, according to more CA news). In a few years, there might not be any more mountains by my house. It really stinks.

So, all in all, I think if we did crack down on immigration, it would better the lives of all those who live here now (including immigrants already living here), instead of having to stretch the lifestyle to fit more and more each year.

[StatiK]

At 7/14/03 09:28 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Here's what the UN thinks.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Thank you! Somebody who actually backed up some of what they were saying with examples.

[dudeitsallama]

At 7/15/03 07:52 PM, Ninja_Scientist wrote: In fact, another reason why I dislike the massive waves of immigration in California and the US in general is because, when population goes up (especially in a small area), so does crime. Also, unfortunately, not being native born can affect the success of many illegal immigrants here, and we often wind up with greater poverty in some areas as well (which isn't their fault, it's just hard to get a good job sometimes if you can't speak English well). And, more than anything, as the population goes up drastically each year, more and more of our natural resources are used up just to give these people room to live comfortably. In California, for example, they bulldoze mountains by my house every month @_o' No joke! And there is still not enough room for everyone (housing is still not what it should be, according to more CA news). In a few years, there might not be any more mountains by my house. It really stinks.

I understand that, living in a big city, it might seem like our country just doesn't have room for any more people but this really isn't the case. There are new houses being built all around where I live on land that wasn't being used for anything, and, in spite of new people (some of them immigrants) moving into these houses, the traffic hasn't gotten any worse and neither has the crime. It's true that LA and New York are getting over populated but most of America is pretty sparsely populated. There are plenty of small town out there that could definitely stand to get bigger. If more people moved to these towns, that would provide them with tax money to improve their school systems, which could help get rid of our ignorant redneck problem.

There is nothing wrong with people coming to America. We have enough food to feed them and enough land to build homes for them. Many immigrants are well educated people that have a lot to contribute to society. I agree that it's a problem when too many people start moving to one city. You could try writing to the mayor to ask him to limit the amout of new housing being built. It's not immigration that causes the mountains to get bulldozed; it's the mountains getting bulldozed that provides room for more immigration.

[Ninja-Scientist]

I should also add that decreased immigration will be better for the immigrants that do come here.

Previously, I discussed how too much immigration (such as now), is contributing greatly to US poverty. Like I said, this is not the immigrants' fault. It is just not easy for them to get a well paying job in America if they can't speak English well, if at all.

However, this doesn't mean that I am "against immigrants" at all. Afterall, who do you see picking our crops, mining, and constructing roads, etc? The thing about immigrants is that they often do the dirty work in America, the stuff that native born Americans don't usually have to wind up doing, and hence immigrants are the ones making up the backbone of US business.

However! This still doesn't mean that increased immigration would help this. Actually, increased immigration would wind up being even worse for the other hard working immigrants. Why?

Right now, due to the massive waves of immigration to the US, we have somewhat of a case of Upton's Sinclair's "The Jungle" on our hands. What this means is that, we have so many immigrants, that businesses can afford to be sleazy to their workers and keep them in poverty.

Right now, if you pull crops for a living as a new immigrant to the US, the businesses who've hired you can pay you absolutely crap and there's nothing you can do about it. Why? Well, if you don't agree to the cost of your labor, there will be a thousand others ready to take your place. Hence, you will never get a raise and will have to continue working at pitiously low wages, increasing US poverty and most likely needing welfare (which is costly to all Americans).

However, if immigration to the US was decreased, we would get the opposite effect. With a lower ammount of immigrants able do to work, such as pick crops, the companies will have to value their workers more. Why? Well, if a company has a worker that asks for a raise, they better damn give it to him, because if that worker quits there may not be another one to take his place. Not like there is a thousand ready to do so, now.

By decreasing immigration, we are making immigrant work more valued by big businesses. Hence, these people will wind up being paid more for their work, and will not add to the US poverty rates as much and hence, many will never have to be put on welfare (which, again, is expensive to all Americans).

So, decreasing immigration to the US would actually be better for the working immigrants that come here, and would better American society as well.

[Ninja-Scientist]

Right now, though there may seem like enough room in America, we have almost just as much immigrants coming to America as being born here each year.

Now, that may not seem like too much, right now. But look at it this way. If an average American has about 2-3 kids in his lifetime, that's 2-3 immigrants that also come here. That means, that each year, we get about 4-6 new people for each "couple" in America.

With heavy immigration, that's the equivilant of the average US family having 4-6 kids. Now, this may not seem too bad, again. But you have to look at it generation wise (and generations aren't as far apart as we may think @_o').

These new 4-6 people wind up having 2-3 kids themselves, and according to statistics, if we include immigration numbers (if it continues at the rate it is), we will have the equivilant of these 4-6 people having 4-6 "kids" themselves.

Now, think about that carefully. If you have 6 kids and each of your children has 6 kids, we've added 36 new people to each "family" per single generation. Take away the two original parents, and we're left with 34. Then, divide that by two (for the two original parents) and we wind up with 17 new people.

That means, that we wind up with roughly 17 new people for each one, per generation. And about half of these are from immigration.

(Note that this is assuming the average family has 3 instead of 2 children, 1, or 0, and not including mortality rates. I used the "worst case senario" because, while the average American family has about 2 kids, there are many other families----often from immigrants, might I add ^_-----that have up to 7 kids per family, so I made it 3 to "even it out," though, I understand this might not be accurate. Once again, this is all just an example.).

Few. So, in just a few generations, the US could very well wind up with a population problem similar to China's. And this will be in a large part the fault of heavy immigration.
--------------
In fact, supposedly, the US's population more than double's with each generation, and once again, almost half of this is due to it's heavy immigration. So, if we had about 500 million people now (I know there's more, I'm just giving an example), then we'd wind up with a billion in our kids generation, 2 billion in our grandchildren's generation, and 4 billion in our great grandchildren's generation. At that point, we've already got a drastic population problem in the US within the next 60 years. And, I think we would see a lot of the problems that are going on in California, happening everywhere accross America.

Once again, almost half of these numbers come from immigrants. @_o' As hard as that is to believe.

So, just because it's not happening now, doesn't mean that it won't happen ever. In fact, it will probably wind up happening within our generation's lifetime.

------------

And, about the California thing, I really do think it's time we started closing our borders. @_o' It's just getting too dang hard here.