Romans of North America.

[Humbucker740]

Well. This is something that I've been pondering for a long time. America, as the great nations of the past, is DOOMED to fail.... or so it would seem. Various similarities to Rome are seen and yet, with the new united world and the end of territory wars WILL America follow in the path of its fallen brethren?

Rome, in its final decades, was plagued by horrible emperors and a slew of barbaric invaders who, as the unity of the empire crumbled, took advantage by pressing forward and dominating their once powerful enemies.

America is at its peak, soon it must begin the downward spiral of the destruction of an empire.

America has its enemies now. Small terrorist countries, many poweful nations, e.g. China, North Korea.

America is plagued by bad leaders, not only Bush Jr (don't get me started on Clinton); but the people trying to become the leader of this nation are not fit to run a business... Hillary Clinton who can't run her way out of a paper bag, Obama (with a B) who has NO political experience, and the once great inventor of the internet, AL GORE!

If the above paragraph is not enough to convince you of the demise of America, look at the lack of unity. The republican party is crumbling, sad to say. People divide themselves between the war and love of their country. Vietnam failed for the same reason as Iraq; lack of faith. People don't back the army and the army cannot win. Blame equipment, leadership, anything all you want. Wars we lose as America are due to one simple thing and one basic thing only; lack of faith.

With all the above characteristics described... will America follow the trend?

World chaos has ended in this day and age and that will play a major role in the end of America. One fact remains; the country itself will not end altogether.

My prediction is that as the world moves to the market system and capitalism America will lose its ranking of world power. China will become the number one and India the number two. America wil take its place with the fallen Dutch, French, and if you choose to include them, the British.

Thanks for reading.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 9/3/07 12:06 AM, Humbucker740 wrote:

Obama (with a B)

Lol, you compared Obama to Osama for absolutely no reason other then their name. How clever and relevant.

who has NO political experience

He's a senator.

Nice research.

[Humbucker740]

At 9/3/07 12:41 AM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote:

At 9/3/07 12:06 AM, Humbucker740 wrote:

Obama (with a B)

Lol, you compared Obama to Osama for absolutely no reason other then their name. How clever and relevant.

who has NO political experience

He's a senator.

Nice research.

And thank YOU for actually pertaining to the topic... oh wait. Some guy with a thing for Obama came in here and decided to pick that apart. Good thing some people were considering you a top debater.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 9/3/07 12:45 AM, Humbucker740 wrote:

And thank YOU for actually pertaining to the topic... oh wait. Some guy with a thing for Obama came in here and decided to pick that apart. Good thing some people were considering you a top debater.

Person A: *Say's untrue thing about person C*
Person B: That's untrue.
Person A: YOUR JUST BIASED!!

The revelation of fact and the exposure of a falsity can never be biased or support any one side.

[fahrenheit]

At 9/3/07 12:06 AM, Humbucker740 wrote: With all the above characteristics described... will America follow the trend?

Not anytime soon. The Romans fell because of their corruption, dis-loyalty, and huge gaps between the poor and rich. Follow that with a bankrupt economy and in-experienced/weak leaders and you end up with history.

[Humbucker740]

At 9/3/07 12:49 AM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote:

At 9/3/07 12:45 AM, Humbucker740 wrote:

And thank YOU for actually pertaining to the topic... oh wait. Some guy with a thing for Obama came in here and decided to pick that apart. Good thing some people were considering you a top debater.

Person A: *Say's untrue thing about person C*
Person B: That's untrue.
Person A: YOUR JUST BIASED!!

The revelation of fact and the exposure of a falsity can never be biased or support any one side.

I will concede here, i was wrong. But I'd rather opt for discussion about the actual topic and not your love for obama. I'd also like to point out that 2 years as a senator is in no way qualification for president, not even with a harvard law degree.

Yeah, you made me research him.

[SolInvictus]

every nation will fall simply because nothing is eternal. so to all you useless bastards with your "America is doomed" bullshit, shut the fuck and stop thinking you're so bloody clever.

[Imperator]

At 9/3/07 02:18 AM, SolInvictus wrote: every nation will fall simply because nothing is eternal. so to all you useless bastards with your "America is doomed" bullshit, shut the fuck and stop thinking you're so bloody clever.

Sol wins. Thread over.

See: Ozymandias

[Bolo]

The difference between America and Ancient Rome is really quite simple: the power to control your territory.

Rome lost control, because it lost ability to defend itself. Rome could barely take on a regular army in its final days, because it depended on the power of man.

America will always have the ability to defend itself, as long as the knowledge of Nuclear technology exists. With the touch of a button, we can wipe the surface of any country on earth completely clean. Technology has obviously changed since antiquity, and I don't think we can necessarily draw parallels between the two nations, due to this factor, which has lessened the dependence on human labor.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 9/3/07 02:18 AM, Humbucker740 wrote:

I will concede here, i was wrong. But I'd rather opt for discussion about the actual topic and not your love for obama.

You once again fail to see that the refusal to lie or accept lies about a person =/= a love of said person. Once again; The revelation of fact and the exposure of a falsity can never be biased or support any one side.

I'd also like to point out that 2 years as a senator is in no way qualification for president, not even with a harvard law degree.

And? If being a politician isn't experience, what is?

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

At 9/3/07 12:06 AM, Humbucker740 wrote: America is at its peak, soon it must begin the downward spiral of the destruction of an empire.

Says who? Granted America may look like its going down the shitter to a lot of people but the fact is it's increasing its influence and power. it may be doing it in ways we don't like such as invading iraq, but it is increasing it's power and influence.

America has its enemies now. Small terrorist countries, many poweful nations, e.g. China, North Korea.

Since when was North Korea a threat? If they really wanted to the US could really jsut waltz in and take Kim Jong Il down.

China? Meh, debatable, particularly as there's a chance they may not even become the economic superpower everyone claims they will be. And besides, the US will have enough allies as well. India is on its way to being a serious player in world politics and they're likely to be friendly with the US. The other Asian Tiger economies are also more liekly to side with the US than china.

America is plagued by bad leaders, not only Bush Jr (don't get me started on Clinton); but the people trying to become the leader of this nation are not fit to run a business... Hillary Clinton who can't run her way out of a paper bag, Obama (with a B) who has NO political experience, and the once great inventor of the internet, AL GORE!

No, no, no.You've got it all wrong. You aren't plagued with bad leaders it's just you're electorate, and sadly this is something the entire western world shares, is too dumb to vote for the good leaders. Instead you vote for whichever guy or gal the emdia throws the most info on.

If Mike Huckabee wins the republican nomination you will have the chance to elect someone who looks like a VERY good leader. may disagree with the majority of his policies, but Huckabee looks like a good leader, as does Romney to a certain extent. I actually don't know enough about any of the other Dems hopefuls, but I'm sure their are some 2nd tier Dem candidates who would make wonderful leaders. It's just the media doesn't give them attention they deserve.

If the above paragraph is not enough to convince you of the demise of America, look at the lack of unity. The republican party is crumbling, sad to say. People divide themselves between the war and love of their country. Vietnam failed for the same reason as Iraq; lack of faith. People don't back the army and the army cannot win. Blame equipment, leadership, anything all you want. Wars we lose as America are due to one simple thing and one basic thing only; lack of faith.

Any nation where you have a single unification of opinion is normally forced and is normally a dictatorship. Iraq may be failing due to a lakc of faith, but in a life or death situation the US people will back the military. It's just they don't like military excursions they don't deem neccessary.

With all the above characteristics described... will America follow the trend?

Not for a while. Eventually yes, but everything falls in the end.

World chaos has ended in this day and age and that will play a major role in the end of America. One fact remains; the country itself will not end altogether.

Are you suggesting that America will partition into separate nations? That is possible, a North South saplit could occur, and it wouldn't shock me either. Hell, summit small like a black man being elected President might be enough to set the ball rolling.

My prediction is that as the world moves to the market system and capitalism America will lose its ranking of world power. China will become the number one and India the number two. America wil take its place with the fallen Dutch, French, and if you choose to include them, the British.

Switch China and India round an I'll agree with you to an extent. Though America will still be
near the top. Number 3, possibly number 4 is another country starts to make rapid progress.

[Humbucker740]

At 9/3/07 05:15 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Says who? Granted America may look like its going down the shitter to a lot of people but the fact is it's increasing its influence and power. it may be doing it in ways we don't like such as invading iraq, but it is increasing it's power and influence.

It's negative influence though. Which, like Rome, will lead to attacks, such as happened in the past with 9/11, etc.

Since when was North Korea a threat? If they really wanted to the US could really jsut waltz in and take Kim Jong Il down.

I'm pretty sure we tried that and failed.

China? Meh, debatable, particularly as there's a chance they may not even become the economic superpower everyone claims they will be. And besides, the US will have enough allies as well. India is on its way to being a serious player in world politics and they're likely to be friendly with the US. The other Asian Tiger economies are also more liekly to side with the US than china.

China has been rapidly gaining on us and you're blind not to see that. China is obviously the second most powerful nation in the world and with their massive population they are quite easily a challenge for the US. China's economy will overtake us within the century undoubtedly.

No, no, no.You've got it all wrong. You aren't plagued with bad leaders it's just you're electorate, and sadly this is something the entire western world shares, is too dumb to vote for the good leaders. Instead you vote for whichever guy or gal the emdia throws the most info on.

The electoral system is the only thing keeping us afloat in this category. If the American population were to decide the president the country would have been dead along time ago. We're lucky the forefathers had the foresight to see that rednecks and gangsters and the low iq of the general population should not be deciding who leads the most powerful country. ATM we have a lack of real competitors for the upcoming election. Gone are the presidents like Regan and the new generation of politicians will not be the same.

If Mike Huckabee wins the republican nomination you will have the chance to elect someone who looks like a VERY good leader. may disagree with the majority of his policies, but Huckabee looks like a good leader, as does Romney to a certain extent. I actually don't know enough about any of the other Dems hopefuls, but I'm sure their are some 2nd tier Dem candidates who would make wonderful leaders. It's just the media doesn't give them attention they deserve.

Both Huckabee and Romney are not of the quality to lead the WORLD. Realize that any person leading the USA, leads the world.

Any nation where you have a single unification of opinion is normally forced and is normally a dictatorship. Iraq may be failing due to a lakc of faith, but in a life or death situation the US people will back the military. It's just they don't like military excursions they don't deem neccessary.

The Romans were unified until the church came and ripped them apart. Split the empire and destroyed the unity. Unity is not a single unification of opinion, but it is a people together, who may have different opinions but still people who arn't enraged at their government and to the point of rebellion.

Not for a while. Eventually yes, but everything falls in the end.

Of course and the end is rapidly approaching.

Are you suggesting that America will partition into separate nations? That is possible, a North South saplit could occur, and it wouldn't shock me either. Hell, summit small like a black man being elected President might be enough to set the ball rolling.

Agreed. Though i find that less likely than America becoming much less powerful and falling into oblivion. When I say America dying, I don't mean America becoming non-existent, I mean America becoming the likes of Britain. Weak compared to their former status as world power.

Switch China and India round an I'll agree with you to an extent. Though America will still be
near the top. Number 3, possibly number 4 is another country starts to make rapid progress.

India doesn't have the economy to become #1. They have the popualtion for #2. And gradually America will become, 4, 5 ,6 ,7, and down in the double digits.

[Elfer]

Rome fell in part because it got too large to protect itself.

Today, however, the entire world is many times smaller than the ancient Roman empire.

[Brick-top]

"And if I fail...?"
"Then Zion will fall"
"Zion?"

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

I have to say I am in agreement with this statement. America as I see it is Rome in the second century AD we have suffered military reverses and a strong anti war sentiment has shifted us to defense rather than annexation. We haven't suffered a catastrophe on the scale of the crisis of the third centaury but that could happen with avian flue climate change the threat of asteroid impact or nuclear/biological attack via rouge nation or terrorist history could easily repeat itself a fact that deeply troubles me as I would rather live in complete fear of totalitarian rule than live in a primitive bloody feudal dark age.

Its true we aren't close but to think America is eternal is foolish. The fact is we as a nation should be on constant guard and fight wars with absolute indomitable will. We cannot have another Vietnam were the will of the people collapses and caused us to fail in our mission if this even is repeated again and again it will show the enemies of America that we aren't invincible and can be beaten when this happens they will likely attack and despite the technical superiority of the military America cannot defend itself on all fronts at the same time that is exactly what happened to Rome. It is a mistake to think the late roman army was inferior in fact it was the equal to or greater that Caesars legions. Changes in equipment were made to combat new enemies and the regular army of the late Roman Empire was still better than any army the world over. The problem was the over reliance on auxiliaries and the incompetence of its leaders. Comparisons could be made to our current army we are already swelling our ranks with the poor, undedicated, and newly immigrated citizens. I am not saying all of the soldiers are like this but quite a few are and this leads me to the conclusion that unloyal or greedy generals might make use of this and rebel or start a civil war which wile difficult in our military system isn't impossible.

We as nation aren't doomed if we stay on guarded and back our military with absolute national resolve and support much like we did during world war two. Don't underestimate the importance of fighting preventative wars to protect our allies if Rome had defended the Goths against the Huns they never would have taken refuge in Rome and never would have revolted.

[SmilezRoyale]

America will probably be superceded economically by another nation in the future, but unlike rome, due to economical interdependence [which WASN'T existant durring the classical era] no soverign world power would see logical reason to 'destroy' or 'nearly completely' dimiish america itself because america is still of economic value. It's like Swinging an Axe at one of the Table leg's that are supporting you. Plus the fact that many countries are indebted to the united states, not simply militaristically [which has no value in the eyes of liberal nations] but economically, [We're all endebted to eachother but we're never going to pay eachother back] We're also binded to other nations through US Bonds. [We really need to get nations to start buying more of those again] If America was destroyed the dollar would kind of have no value... Which isn't great since many countries use the dollar as they're own currency or side currency.

The problem with the european nations is they're going to continue to pool more and more of they're citizens income money into supporting those who have either 0 means but often times 0 resolve to improove they're life conditions, sort of like pumping air into an impaled balloon.

China seems to me like a 1920's version of america, Extreme Growth rate, low worker wages [Bejing and the "Boxmart" Scenario] that produce middle quality low cost goods.

But you notice that these nations who the rest of the world either Glorifies or dreads as the worlds future superpowers arn't the ones who are playing the Fair Game rules; not that they're a bad thing.

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

At 9/3/07 12:25 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: America will probably be superceded economically by another nation in the future...

Yes but the money gained from conquest is far higher that what those nations make from us economically and that wouldn't prevent us from being attacked. Also Rome was of equal value in terms of trade with the us currently in fact much like china the only nation more economically valuable was the Sassinid empire which started out like china now, a minor power on the rise. Don't underestimate the advanced network of trade routs that made the ancient world prosperous.

[tony4moroney]

At 9/3/07 12:25 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:

We're also binded to other nations through US Bonds. [We really need to get nations to start buying more of those again]

opposite way around; relieve dependence on creditors, stabilize the economy, balance expenditure, dont exceed the gdp and incur more debts which are purchased by japan and china.

if china has more u.s treasury bonds that means we become more dependent on them and their policies.

If America was destroyed the dollar would kind of have no value... Which isn't great since many countries use the dollar as they're own currency or side currency.

the problem is many countries are switching to the e.u because it's much more stable. if the u.s dollar has no value (it's actually rapidly depreciating in value, look at metals and the U.S vs the CAD) than it wouldnt be at a dramatic consequence to them if their assets are in Euros. It affects china because their currency is pegged to the u.s and consequentially they either lose the largest consumer of their goods (we're pretty much responsible for their rapid economic growth throuh outsourcing manufacturing and purchasing low cost goods) or their yuan becomes worthless. The consequences however will have a larger affect on us. Simply finite resources infinite demand. They'll just trade with Europe and Canada.

[Korriken]

blah blah blah.... america fails.... blah blah blash... obama osama.... blah blah blah... hey, don't we have ENOUGH anti american threads already?! hey seven, you know what to do...

[ErwinR0mmel]

At 9/3/07 06:30 PM, Korriken wrote: blah blah blah.... america fails.... blah blah blash... obama osama.... blah blah blah... hey, don't we have ENOUGH anti american threads already?! hey seven, you know what to do...

Yeah, but I think this one has a point. Speculating on what will be the factors that'll finally bring down mighty America.

[Humbucker740]

At 9/3/07 07:44 PM, ErwinR0mmel wrote:

At 9/3/07 06:30 PM, Korriken wrote: blah blah blah.... america fails.... blah blah blash... obama osama.... blah blah blah... hey, don't we have ENOUGH anti american threads already?! hey seven, you know what to do...

Yeah, but I think this one has a point. Speculating on what will be the factors that'll finally bring down mighty America.

Exactly, be it through hostile action, running out the life span, or just plain old imploding on itself.