Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

It's the difference between faith and trust. Faith is belief without evidence. Trust is belief (or acceptance of a proposition) based upon evidence.

Furthermore: Burden of Proof is on Those Positing that X Exists, Not that X Does Not Exist.

At 9/1/07 07:11 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 9/1/07 07:00 PM, Truth wrote: I said it before.
If youve read the Koran you would know that a Muslim terrorist is an oxymoron.

Indeed, pick through the Qu'ran or the Hadiths or whatever, and, just like the Bible (particularly the Old Testament), you'll find loads of encouragement to spread your religion by the sword, and fuck all the 'don't kill people' malarkey, God occasionally makes statements to the contrary:

Yeah, but you're taking those lines out of context. Otherwise, Islam sounds really brutal.

Why do you think America is in war with Iraq today? Is it because of a religious reason?

At 9/1/07 07:00 PM, Truth wrote:
I said it before.
If youve read the Koran you would know that a Muslim terrorist is an oxymoron. The only logical answer is that People are misinformed. It is because either we accept something false on T.V. or they (suicide bombers) have false knowledge of Islam.

So can you tell me why the fuck there is a suicide bombing every single day?

Also, Sam Harris, in his book, points out plenty of places in the Koran that hint at it being alright to kill yourself in the name of God. I don't have the source right now, but if you take a look at the book you'll see them.

At 9/1/07 07:20 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: But that's not religion's problem. There will always be people willing to break laws in order to uphold beliefs they hold strongly enough.
Why you should focus such a disproportionate amount of attention on religion is beyond me.

People will only kill themselves / succumb to the death penalty with glee if they reckon that they'll get eternal paradise on the end of it. I think religion is the most dangerous and harmful widespread belief system in the world today, I think it has brought no good into the world and taken loads of good out; With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. (Stephen Weinberg, probably of Jewish ancestry with that name). Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq, Protestants and Catholics in Ireland - there are so many divisions based solely on religion.

At 9/1/07 07:25 PM, Truth wrote: Yeah, but you're taking those lines out of context. Otherwise, Islam sounds really brutal.

Michael Jackson wrote some great songs, and in the context of his life and career, his paedophilia accusations are a very small part. But I still wouldn't get him to look after my kids, and if he got worshipped, I'd imagine there'd be a difference of opinion towards paedophilia from people who'd really read his life story. The words are still in there, and the fundamentalists read those words and think, "ahah. I've been told this book is right all my life, so I believe the bits all the moderates ignore."

Why do you think America is in war with Iraq today? Is it because of a religious reason?

I protested that; I noticed this in Facebook too, everyone is accusing me of being a Bushist. They're in Iraq for fuck knows whatever stupid reason, probably for power and control in the turbulent and America-hating Middle East, but you can't impose secular democracy at the point of a gun and Saddam didn't have WMDS. Again, not every war is because of religion. But I tell you what, if Iraqis were all Christians, America would almost definitely not have invaded.

At 9/1/07 07:36 PM, Earfetish wrote: But I tell you what, if Iraqis were all Christians, America would almost definitely not have invaded.

Wow, I didn't ever look at it like that. That's so true.

At 9/1/07 06:16 PM, Bovineoverlord wrote: *Sigh* You didn't answer my question. I asked you WHY does it matter so much to you that somebody believes in God?

No reasonable person will care that someone believes in God. But when it comes to an Atheist v. Theist debate, it's hard to imagine the Theist arguing beyond his faith. Faith =/= Fact.

You're missing the point here, mon ami. It doesn't matter what you believe. Religion is not all bad and not all good, but rather a double edged sword. Have you ever heard of Mother Teresa?

Don't know anything about Mother Teresa.

If you want to be an atheist I don't care, but for fuck's sake stop trying to enforce your views on other people. Stop trying to enforce your views on other people. Stop trying to enforce your views on other people!

No one has done such. Explain to me how honest debate is "enforcing my views on others?"

Religion will never go away. Trying to eradicate religion is like trying to make coyotes extinct, which is quite impossible because when you kill a coyote, you're just killing off one of the stupider ones, which leaves the smarter ones, who are harder to kill.

Again, no reasonable Atheist is trying to "eradicate religion." We're merely pointing out the difference between Faith and Facts.

Why can't you just live with the fact that some people are religious? Why does it bother you so much??!

Personally, it does bother me that they're so unreasonable as to let their emotions over-ride their reason, but "to each his own," I guess.

Grow up and learn to tolerate other people's opinions.

Pay attention to our argument.

Hello, all you athiests.

I am here to convert you to the Church of the Fonz.

Let us 'ey.

At 9/1/07 07:21 PM, DnaInstant wrote: Furthermore: Burden of Proof is on Those Positing that X Exists, Not that X Does Not Exist.

Not at all, the burden of proof is on the person challenging the other.

At 9/1/07 07:36 PM, Earfetish wrote: People will only kill themselves / succumb to the death penalty with glee if they reckon that they'll get eternal paradise on the end of it.

Maybe in alot of cases, but people are still be willing to murder for their beliefs.

I think religion is the most dangerous and harmful widespread belief system in the world today, I think it has brought no good into the world and taken loads of good out;

You're telling me religion has done no good? Even though the basic principles of religion are to do good?

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Which good people doing evil things are we talking about here? Are we calling suicide bombers "good people doing evil things", now?

Somebody asked me what my religion was in school, I told her I was Atheist. After telling me I'm going to hell 'n all that shit for not being a Christian, I asked if she'd believe in the Lord of the Rings if it were written 2000 years ago. She said she would. I sighed.

At 9/1/07 07:52 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: Maybe in alot of cases, but people are still be willing to murder for their beliefs.

If, in a lot of cases, people murder and die for religious purposes, then religion, in all of these cases, is being used for evil, not good.

You're telling me religion has done no good? Even though the basic principles of religion are to do good?

Yes, I'm saying religion has done no good. Morals are universal and not religiously based; most religious morals are either obvious (the Golden Rule) or bollocks (graven images), and when we lived in a religious society there were far more hangings and burnings at the stake and all that shit than in a secularist society. So yes, religion has done no good. Doctors and nurses are good because of morality and empathy, even Mother Theresa, not because of the threat of eternal damnation.

Which good people doing evil things are we talking about here? Are we calling suicide bombers "good people doing evil things", now?

Yes, we are. Suicide bombers would probably be lovely people if they weren't born into a strongly religious family. Suicide bombers don't think they're committing atrocity, they think they're doing something unbelievably good, worth dying for even. Suicide bombers feel far more morally righteous than your school/workplace shooters, I'd reckon; they're doing it for God; they scream 'God is great' before killing loads of innocents, because they think they're doing good things, because some passage in the Qu'ran says so.

At 9/1/07 07:40 PM, deafeningsilence5 wrote:

At 9/1/07 07:36 PM, Earfetish wrote: But I tell you what, if Iraqis were all Christians, America would almost definitely not have invaded.

Wow, I didn't ever look at it like that. That's so true.

Thats Because America is mostly Christians. We wont feel that bad if they die because there different then us.
Religion is in the category of what differentiates us apart as human beings.

Question is: If everyone in the world were atheists, would we find some other difference as an excuse to engage war? With our true purpose being our own selfish desires to control others.

At 9/1/07 08:16 PM, Truth wrote:

At 9/1/07 07:40 PM, deafeningsilence5 wrote:

Thats Because America is mostly Christians. We wont feel that bad if they die because there different then us.
Religion is in the category of what differentiates us apart as human beings.

Bingo. By Jove, I think he's got it.

Question is: If everyone in the world were atheists, would we find some other difference as an excuse to engage war? With our true purpose being our own selfish desires to control others.

We would, and it would be nationalism, but there'd be far fewer wars. And if we got rid of that, all wars would be about money and commodities, and there'd be even fewer.

How would there be fewer wars? the same selfish people would find other reasons to engage war.

At 9/1/07 08:26 PM, Truth wrote: How would there be fewer wars? the same selfish people would find other reasons to engage war.

It'd be far harder to get people on your side if they didn't think that there was some divine reason for them to be on your side. And there'd be far less Israel, and other causes of friction from people having different belief systems. If there was no Islam, then Bin Laden would never have convinced people to kill themselves and countless innocents in the name of it. The people hijacking the planes weren't doing it out of selfishness, because they died with everyone else.

At 9/1/07 08:34 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 9/1/07 08:26 PM, Truth wrote: How would there be fewer wars? the same selfish people would find other reasons to engage war.

It'd be far harder to get people on your side if they didn't think that there was some divine reason for them to be on your side. And there'd be far less Israel, and other causes of friction from people having different belief systems. If there was no Islam, then Bin Laden would never have convinced people to kill themselves and countless innocents in the name of it. The people hijacking the planes weren't doing it out of selfishness, because they died with everyone else.

I really dont want to talk about politics, cause the Osama story is different from what i believe.
men using religion as a reason causes war. From a different perspective, I guess you can say Religion causes war. But I don't think there would be fewer wars without it.

On to something more important. what would it take for you to believe in God.

At 9/1/07 09:05 PM, Truth wrote: On to something more important. what would it take for you to believe in God.

I think for most Atheists, it's simple: God coming down and proving himself.

At 9/1/07 09:20 PM, deafeningsilence5 wrote:

At 9/1/07 09:05 PM, Truth wrote: On to something more important. what would it take for you to believe in God.

I think for most Atheists, it's simple: God coming down and proving himself.

you mean a miracle? just making sure.

At 9/1/07 09:21 PM, Truth wrote:

At 9/1/07 09:20 PM, deafeningsilence5 wrote:

At 9/1/07 09:05 PM, Truth wrote: On to something more important. what would it take for you to believe in God.

I think for most Atheists, it's simple: God coming down and proving himself.

you mean a miracle? just making sure.

The first link of the first post; the theist's guide to converting atheists. If any Holy Book was at all convincing, then that.

At 9/1/07 09:39 PM, Earfetish wrote: The first link of the first post; the theist's guide to converting atheists. If any Holy Book was at all convincing, then that.

Isn't it agnostics that are waiting for proof of one option either way? I thought you believe in no God, and I don't see how any holy book could write it in a way that could convince you otherwise.

At 9/1/07 09:21 PM, Truth wrote:

At 9/1/07 09:20 PM, deafeningsilence5 wrote:

At 9/1/07 09:05 PM, Truth wrote: On to something more important. what would it take for you to believe in God.

I think for most Atheists, it's simple: God coming down and proving himself.

you mean a miracle? just making sure.

No. How about something clear, like a person who can teleport and tell the future. And he has to say "i am the christian god".

At 9/1/07 09:42 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: Isn't it agnostics that are waiting for proof of one option either way? I thought you believe in no God, and I don't see how any holy book could write it in a way that could convince you otherwise.

An agnostic is someone who is not sure. An atheist is someone who could say "there is almost definitely not a God." Atheists are totally up for having their beliefs refuted, should the right information come along. I can say "I am almost definitely the biological son of the person I call 'dad'," or "I am almost definitely certain everyone else is not a robot," but I could never be 100% about that and if I was proven wrong I would change my opinions in a heartbeat. My main man Richard Dawkins is the same.

For any religious person who got pissed off with me, or who has ever got pissed off with people arguing about religion, this link is pretty good, and full of Bible quotes too.

Interesting link but have you ever read the bible earfetish? I honestly haven't bothered attempted to read the bible since i was 14 years old and i thought the world was gonna end.

It's just a thought here but how can someone so perfect write such a boring book? even when i was a very religious as kid.

I was always bored in church and hated going but my parents would force me to go anyways.

Prepare to get your ass kicked by butthurt atheists