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At 8/31/07 03:25 PM, Void24 wrote: So I can put his wrapper in a compressed file with instructions and sell it on my site? As long as I am only selling the instructions and throwing in his product for "free"?

lol, yeah, by his logic you'd be fine to do that. Maybe we all should.

At 8/31/07 04:00 PM, Denvish wrote:

At 8/31/07 03:25 PM, Void24 wrote: So I can put his wrapper in a compressed file with instructions and sell it on my site? As long as I am only selling the instructions and throwing in his product for "free"?

lol, yeah, by his logic you'd be fine to do that. Maybe we all should.

Yeah, definitely :P Or at least pretend that we are.

He wanted me to post this in here for proof:
Please take flight off your game pack.

Well I have absolutely nothing against the distribution of my work, but a business venture solely based off of selling free work that was collected from the internet bothers me. It is just frustrating.

Seriously... offer your wrapper for free, or sell a service by doing the setup for your customers yourself. Simply selling the work of strangers is dishonest.

Oh and if you are in fact planning to remove games at the request of developers, please remove Year of the Snake.

I respect your offer to remove the work of upset developers.

At 8/31/07 04:00 PM, Denvish wrote:

At 8/31/07 03:25 PM, Void24 wrote: So I can put his wrapper in a compressed file with instructions and sell it on my site? As long as I am only selling the instructions and throwing in his product for "free"?

lol, yeah, by his logic you'd be fine to do that. Maybe we all should.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
I'm up for that

Guys,

He is totally right in saying it's free for him to distribute this information. I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement, so he really isnt doing anything wrong.

You're all nieve kids if you DONT want your work to be apreciated across the world and are greedy if the only reason you dont want it distibuted is so "he cant make a profit off of it" because it isnt affecting your income from the work, if anything it's improving it.

At 8/31/07 05:29 PM, Rustygames wrote: Guys,
He is totally right in saying it's free for him to distribute this information. I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement, so he really isnt doing anything wrong.
You're all nieve kids if you DONT want your work to be apreciated across the world and are greedy if the only reason you dont want it distibuted is so "he cant make a profit off of it" because it isnt affecting your income from the work, if anything it's improving it.

Please don't run in here and be a moron, anything anyone creates, they have copyright to, unless they sell or forfeit the copyright. Copyright, since you obviously didn't read the thread is the right to copy and exploit, among other things, a certain work. He doesn't have copyright to the games he's exploiting, and he doesn't have a license to sell them. And it's not naivety to not want something you worked hard to make packaged like a slice of cheese and sold in bulk. You own copyright to things you create, whether they're registered or not. If you don't want your work sold like this, then you don't want it sold like this and it shouldn't be.

At 8/31/07 05:29 PM, Rustygames wrote: I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement.

Owe up.

At 8/31/07 05:29 PM, Rustygames wrote: He is totally right in saying it's free for him to distribute this information. I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement, so he really isnt doing anything wrong.

It's not like if he's putting ads on his site or anything, he's directly selling people's games under a pseudo-php-script.. He's a crook. A crook that calls the police. Rather ironic.

At 8/31/07 05:39 PM, jmtb02 wrote:

At 8/31/07 05:29 PM, Rustygames wrote: I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement.

Owe up.

Damn I owe you 10p :D
Hey dude, how did you get that done, I assume over the net or most people wouldnt bother. How much does it cost, and can I get a world wide copyright? (yours is only copyright in the US so I could host it say, here in the UK and its legal) Also, does copyright restrict sites using it?

At 8/31/07 05:41 PM, Edvin wrote:

At 8/31/07 05:29 PM, Rustygames wrote: He is totally right in saying it's free for him to distribute this information. I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement, so he really isnt doing anything wrong.

It's not like if he's putting ads on his site or anything, he's directly selling people's games under a pseudo-php-script.. He's a crook. A crook that calls the police. Rather ironic.

No, we have established he isnt selling ownership of the games, he is selling a list of data he obtained, the service is what hes selling. Calling him a crook however is libel and that is illegal.

Dont go shouting your mouth off because it can get you into more trouble then just shutting up and being reasonable. He is meeting all your demands and people like him have made you all famous and sometimes rich. Without people to use your work, you wouldnt have the funds to continue.

For example, crazy monkey games bought an arcade script boasting it had 500+ games that came with it. If it werent for them doing that, they wouldnt be where they are now, and wouldnt be paying you guys to complain about free PR!

At 8/31/07 05:47 PM, Rustygames wrote: No, we have established he isnt selling ownership of the games, he is selling a list of data he obtained, the service is what hes selling. Calling him a crook however is libel and that is illegal.

Stop bullshitting me. Doesn't he sell the .swf files directly in his package? So according to you that's legal? Kudos to you. I think you're being an ass! Is that libel? Sue me.

Dont go shouting your mouth off because it can get you into more trouble then just shutting up and being reasonable. He is meeting all your demands and people like him have made you all famous and sometimes rich. Without people to use your work, you wouldnt have the funds to continue.

Famous? You're just covering your own ass with rustygames.
And get real, without developpers, sites like yours, armorgames and CMG wouldn't exist. You're just buisnessmen profiteering from the system. You're twisting the whole situation around. It's normal for developpers to be pissed if people make more money than them by using their games.

the sites that are buying these scripts aren't popular sites, and individual games won't get the attention they deserve if it's one of 2700 other games on ONE UPDATE.

I'm all for people hosting my work, but when it's bulked up in a package and sold to low traffic sites that people are expecting to make money off of, I'm lucky if this guy's stuff has redirected 50 people to my site.

Anyway g2g now cyaall

At 8/31/07 05:47 PM, Rustygames wrote: No, we have established he isnt selling ownership of the games, he is selling a list of data he obtained, the service is what hes selling. Calling him a crook however is libel and that is illegal.
Dont go shouting your mouth off because it can get you into more trouble then just shutting up and being reasonable. He is meeting all your demands and people like him have made you all famous and sometimes rich. Without people to use your work, you wouldnt have the funds to continue.

Seriously, wtf, has beapilot hacked your account or something? I thought you had some integrity, obviously I was wrong.
I agree with what Glaiel says, AG and Dan McNeeley's distribution tactics are what's brought people to my site, not wrapper packages which basically STEAL developers' work for profit.

At 8/31/07 06:15 PM, Denvish wrote:

At 8/31/07 05:47 PM, Rustygames wrote: No, we have established he isnt selling ownership of the games, he is selling a list of data he obtained, the service is what hes selling. Calling him a crook however is libel and that is illegal.
Dont go shouting your mouth off because it can get you into more trouble then just shutting up and being reasonable. He is meeting all your demands and people like him have made you all famous and sometimes rich. Without people to use your work, you wouldnt have the funds to continue.

Seriously, wtf, has beapilot hacked your account or something? I thought you had some integrity, obviously I was wrong.
I agree with what Glaiel says, AG and Dan McNeeley's distribution tactics are what's brought people to my site, not wrapper packages which basically STEAL developers' work for profit.

I guess when you're right you're right, it wont get us much traffic, but still, dont bother complaining about it. So what some guy is using our work to make a fast buck, it's not going to make him millions and if it is as unpopular as you guys say then it's really not hurting anyone, so let it be.

But I dont think it's fair to hate this guy for doing this, then not condem AG for the backstabbing shit they do :P
Business is business I guess everyone just wants their place in the spotlight...

Edvin:
Grow up with the hissy fits :P.

At 8/31/07 06:20 PM, Rustygames wrote: But I dont think it's fair to hate this guy for doing this, then not condem AG for the backstabbing shit they do :P

The difference is, AG (at the time, Dan McNeeley & Inglor) were at the forefront of pioneering Flash sponsorship (as opposed to stealing & publishing games without credits to the devs (aka eBaums)). Games of Gondor/Armor Games changed the shape of the internet for Flash devs, in that they were the first to respect Flash authors and pay them at least a portion of the rewards they deserved for their hard work. Now, a couple of years later, there are a multitude of sponsors to chose from, but people tend to forget that AG was the first site to make a push in that direction. If it wasn't for Dan, Ben & AG, developers would probably still be having their hard work ripped off by anybody that fancied it, rather than getting a decent pay packet for the weeks/months they spent on whatever project.

This whole wrapper thing basically takes us all back to the time before that happened, and personally, I don't wish to go back there.

At 8/31/07 06:20 PM, Rustygames wrote: Edvin:
Grow up with the hissy fits :P.

I still love you Matty don't worry.

At 8/31/07 06:28 PM, Denvish wrote: Armorgames.com stuff

Yes they first thought of the idea (as far as mass sponsorship goes), but soneone would have come up with it sooner of later. And putting your logos in a game is very different to distributing a game. If this guy put his logo in it then legal action would need to be taken.

AG isnt as godly as all that though, I dont know if "inglor" is still part of it but he was extremely rude and was one of the reasons I stopped developing for AG. Other being I lucked out with a game and realised just how much money there is in arcade websites using games to promote them.

Dont everyone be loyal to AG for thinking of it first, thats why microsoft owns the PC world, and McDonalds owns the burger world, they always will, no one likes a monopoly.

Anyways this is getting side tracked so im off.

Goodnight, try and get some sleep denvish, though I intend on having a long needed lie in after a hard week of work!

At 8/31/07 06:34 PM, Rustygames wrote:

At 8/31/07 06:28 PM, Denvish wrote: Armorgames.com stuff

Yes they first thought of the idea (as far as mass sponsorship goes), but soneone would have come up with it sooner of later.

Seriously though, would they? if they don't have to pay, why should they? Whatever you think of Inglor, I believe it was his influence, as a Flash coder himself, that led to the whole sponsorship scene

Other being I lucked out with a game and realised just how much money there is in arcade websites using games to promote them.

So basically, you jumped on the AG bandwagon once it was rolling? Why slag them off then?

Anyways this is getting side tracked so im off.

Agreed, the whole AG thing is not really relevant to this thread so I'll leave it here

Goodnight, try and get some sleep denvish, though I intend on having a long needed lie in after a hard week of work!

Saturday=my lie-in day too (unfortunately Sunday is a 7am latest). It was my oldest's 6th birthday today, bless her. I will sleep well because I'm absolutely fucking knackered.... once you get to my age, you'll realise you don't have the drive or energy you used to. You whippersnapper

Rustygames wrote:
"Guys,
He is totally right in saying it's free for him to distribute this information. I bet 10 to a penny that none of your games have any kind of legal copyright or terms of use agreement, so he really isnt doing anything wrong.
You're all nieve kids if you DONT want your work to be apreciated across the world and are greedy if the only reason you dont want it distibuted is so "he cant make a profit off of it" because it isnt affecting your income from the work, if anything it's improving it.
No, we have established he isnt selling ownership of the games, he is selling a list of data he obtained, the service is what hes selling. Calling him a crook however is libel and that is illegal.
Dont go shouting your mouth off because it can get you into more trouble then just shutting up and being reasonable. He is meeting all your demands and people like him have made you all famous and sometimes rich. Without people to use your work, you wouldnt have the funds to continue.
For example, crazy monkey games bought an arcade script boasting it had 500+ games that came with it. If it werent for them doing that, they wouldnt be where they are now, and wouldnt be paying you guys to complain about free PR!
guess when you're right you're right, it wont get us much traffic, but still, dont bother complaining about it. So what some guy is using our work to make a fast buck, it's not going to make him millions and if it is as unpopular as you guys say then it's really not hurting anyone, so let it be.
But I dont think it's fair to hate this guy for doing this, then not condem AG for the backstabbing shit they do :P
Business is business I guess everyone just wants their place in the spotlight...
Edvin:
Grow up with the hissy fits :P."

Any other mature understanding people out there?
PS: Thanks for explaining to these kids. Its hard for me to make them understand. Only people from the forums who replys with truth will help.

At 8/31/07 07:54 PM, beapilot wrote: PS: Its hard for me to make them understand my crazed view of the world. Only people from the forums who replys with posts that support my insane logic will help... the rest we can just pretend don't exist.

Fixed your post for you, kid. Please show your appreciation by donating to the Starving Flash Artists fund.

Denvish is a n00b! he double posted! STONE HIM!

Naw, but anyways, you see, he IS giving you guys the chance to remove their rightfully owned games that don't belong to him in the slightest since, but those other games in there from other sites, or perhaps from users that DON'T visit these forums are still having their Flash unrightfully and immorally sold.

At 8/31/07 08:32 PM, ShirtTurtle wrote: Who agrees we should turn this gamepack controversy into a musical stage show on broadway?

there's not much of a controversy here... 99% of us agree on the subject matters.

I stopped following this thread much.. anyway rather than have this going on for weeks, just do what the thread was originally made for, he said he'll remove your game so just make your request.

I think that if anything, people will now put in more disclaimers on their games. Honestly its rarely ever this heavy of a fight to get someone to remove a game, its like amazing he threw the whole galaxy against him instead of taking the 10 mins or whatever to remove the stupid game.

some people are masochistic sometimes. No more insults just request to have a game removed as originally intended. have an awesome weekend and if you feel like persuing this to a greater degree just do so on your own. This could go on for ages.