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Let's break this down, shall we?

At 8/26/07 05:37 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

supporting the indefinite suspension of habeas corpus,

Done before.

Not illegal.

illegal institutions,

Way to specify.

torture,

1) Waterboarding doesn't cause any physical harm
2) REAL torture are isolated incidents where the soliders are dealt with.
3) Real torture is also unavoidable in conflicts and wars.
4) Considering that waterboarding is only used on known members of Al Qeada (ect) and that these people are ready and willing to blow themselves up and kill thousands, I highly doubt the "psychological" factor of waterboarding should be an issue.

no recognition for international law e.g geneva convention u.n convention against torture

Geneva Convention only applies to nations. Al Qeada isn't a nation. They do not abide by UN rules and regulation. They target civilians.

the acceptance and support of a corrupt, scandalous administration that refuses to comply with the law and refuses to recognize any authority be it constitutional obligations,

COUGH*ATTORNEY FIRINGS*COUGH

administrative oversight, senatorial investigations, congressional hearings or court orders.

And like I said... You can't order investigations with 0 evidence.

If it were ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, you'd be throwing a hissy fit.

LOL, if the adminstration ordered investigations against the senate, you'd be butt-hurt until your death, bitching about how what they did was unconstitutional.

Lol, you're so fucking pathetic.

im saying the amendment calls for a right to bear arms as a need to protect the country from the possibility of tyrannical government. are you part of the militia?

THE PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

I don't think it can make it any clearer.

At 8/27/07 01:00 PM, Memorize wrote: Let's break this down, shall we?

At 8/26/07 05:37 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

supporting the indefinite suspension of habeas corpus,

Done before.

Not illegal.

since when was i talking about the legality of it? you allege i falsely compared yourself and neoconservatism with fascism, the support of this shows otherwise.

illegal institutions,

Way to specify.

Guantanamo

torture,

1) Waterboarding doesn't cause any physical harm
2) REAL torture are isolated incidents where the soliders are dealt with.
3) Real torture is also unavoidable in conflicts and wars.
4) Considering that waterboarding is only used on known members of Al Qeada (ect) and that these people are ready and willing to blow themselves up and kill thousands, I highly doubt the "psychological" factor of waterboarding should be an issue.

As sajharbajen pointed out [sorry for the gross misspelling] according to INTERNATIONAL LAW it is torture.

"any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."

here
Bush's administration is already in direct violation of the first four articles pertaining to torture and humane treatment of prisoners.

no recognition for international law e.g geneva convention u.n convention against torture

Geneva Convention only applies to nations. Al Qeada isn't a nation. They do not abide by UN rules and regulation. They target civilians.

No, once again you show your lack of knowledge. The Geneva Convention applies to all prisoners of war. Who are we at war with? The tooth-fairy? Now you're just trying to stretch the truth. It's also interesting that you neglect the fact that it's also in direct violation of international law under the guidelines set by the u.n convention against torture. it doesn't matter whether the people captured are believed to be al qaeda informants/ associated with a terrorist organization the fact of the matter is they're still subject to the same laws whether you like it or not.

the acceptance and support of a corrupt, scandalous administration that refuses to comply with the law and refuses to recognize any authority be it constitutional obligations,

COUGH*ATTORNEY FIRINGS*COUGH

administrative oversight, senatorial investigations, congressional hearings or court orders.

And like I said... You can't order investigations with 0 evidence.

Apparently you can, and there was evidence, there were leads but as you may recall the evidence they could've potentially gathered was denied - illegally - unless you believe objecting to senate subpoenas is in compliance with the law and refusing oversight and not subjecting yourself to any laws on the basis of technicalities relating to the branch you sit on which is just showing a disdain for the law.

If it were ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, you'd be throwing a hissy fit.

uhh no i wouldnt. they had a right to launch investigations into the attorney firings considering there was a strong likelihood that it was related to a coverup of an investigation into wiretapping. judging by the non-compliance it appears as though their assertions have quite some weight.

LOL, if the adminstration ordered investigations against the senate, you'd be butt-hurt until your death, bitching about how what they did was unconstitutional.

uhh no i wouldnt.. the thing is, they have no reason to be investigating nor is bush in any position to launch an investigation into the senate. your examples are incredibly inane and pathetic.

im saying the amendment calls for a right to bear arms as a need to protect the country from the possibility of tyrannical government. are you part of the militia?

THE PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

I don't think it can make it any clearer.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Except you miss the reason for the right to bear arms, doofus.

Ok for one thing medicinal cannabis is not the same as pot sold on the streets. Regulated drug's are a harmless vice unregulated Drugs are a scourge that must either be regulated or destroyed there is no reasonable middle ground.

Some animals can't feel pain do you empathies with them because they move and what the hell do you know about plants. For all you know millions of years from now they could evolve intelligence would you then consider them important and as for humans being low on the food chain because we use brains rather than brown to hunt then you obviously knows nothing about the nature that you so insolently claim to protect. Many animals' use tools and cunning to compensate for a lack of natural abilities we just are more advanced hence we are at the top of the food chain. We are at the top that's it there are no excuses in nature all species exist because of luck intelligence instincts and strength what one lacks of one of these traits if successful it uses the others to compensate we did and we rule end of story.

Being a hippy and a conservationist are two very different things it may surprise you to learn I am a conservationist. I am an advocate for the protection of endangered species, there habitat, the environment, and the sustainable advance of human civilization wile not at the same time compromising the world around us. Being an ignorant, drug addicted, hedonistic, pseudo-pacifististic barbarian cur is another story.

And as for the eternal fascist Vs Communist argument (I call it that because that's what we call each other. I at time have been called both by both so I know) let me just say that you all should go look up the true and original meaning of republicanism, democracy, fascism, Marxism, and socialism then do historical research on Rome, the geek city states, early America, 1900th centaury Europe and Russia and then do some supplementary research on law codes of other civilization specifically that of Cyrus, Hammurabi, Justinian, roman republic, common law, and early Greek and Egyptian law coeds because You are all socialists and you don't even know it which is sad. I have studied in an amateur fashion all these subjects and peoples and from both ancient and modern history I have a unique wisdom that all of you should seek. I could rant about my opinions and my reasons for them for literally years so I will instead ask that you either do the research yourself, ask me about something specific, or just cease and desist the ignorant banter about that which you do not understand and if you don't believe me. Go a head and ask try me I am waiting.

At 8/27/07 07:47 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: Ok for one thing medicinal cannabis is not the same as pot sold on the streets. Regulated drug's are a harmless vice

since when were medically administered drugs a vice? that's new.

unregulated Drugs are a scourge that must either be regulated or destroyed there is no reasonable middle ground.

the whole idea behind eradicating the culture of marijuana has failed miserably. the only appropriate alternative proposition is as you say, regulation.

Some animals can't feel pain do you empathies with them because they move

I'm curious, what are these animals you're referring to? Also, people empathize with these animals e.g chickens because they're subject to cruel conditions throughout their short lifespan and often even during the killing process.

and what the hell do you know about plants. For all you know millions of years from now they could evolve intelligence

key thing to note, at current they don't have intelligence and the likelihood of that ever happening is very low if the history of plant biology and evolution is anything to go by.

Many animals' use tools and cunning to compensate for a lack of natural abilities we just are more advanced hence we are at the top of the food chain. We are at the top that's it there are no excuses in nature all species exist because of luck intelligence instincts and strength what one lacks of one of these traits if successful it uses the others to compensate we did and we rule end of story.

there's a difference between killing animals to eat them and subjecting them to a tortured lifespan and being treated as a lifeless commodity.

Man most people hate hippies they are lazy rich kids most of the time with nothing better to do or they are so poor and lazy they cannot even get a job so they bitch about global warming or the evil soldiers that are stopping terrorists hacking everyone up or don't eat meat because this cow or chicken had a depressing life because it was in a shed that was like a road in india packed side to side and smells of shit.

At 8/25/07 01:01 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

At 8/25/07 12:49 PM, LabBattle wrote:

I dont get pissed when you eat your veggi burger, let me eat my red meat in peace.

Yes because we aren't actully killing something that is living has thoughts, emotions, feels pain, and suffers because you buy these products.

He's saying that plants have Feelings and emotions too. [And science is leaning towards the thesis that this could be correct; that they can feel pain but do not communicate through use of Air and diameters like living creatures do.

It's sort of like The Spanish transition from Native american slaves to african ones. It seems alot less harmfull to enslave the africans, so lets enslave them instead.

At 8/27/07 09:37 PM, tony4moroney wrote: since when were medically administered drugs a vice? that's new.
the whole idea behind eradicating the culture of marijuana has failed miserably. the only appropriate alternative proposition is as you say, regulation.

That's why I advocate regulation not prohibition. Have you even ready posts on the subject? You might actually agree with them. Remember my last topic http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7496 46.

I'm curious, what are these animals you're referring to? Also, people empathize with these animals e.g chickens because they're subject to cruel conditions throughout their short lifespan and often even during the killing process.

How about sea sponges they have long been killed for use by humans yet they are animals and feel no pain in fact wile chickens are killed for food sponges are killed for cleaning and art even though synthetic sponges can be made easily if anything that's worse My point is dumb hippy pseudo-environmentalist only care about cute animals and ignorantly ignore the fact that they enjoy products made from the desecrated copses of other life forms that deserve every much as protection as animals lucky enough to be considered cute by humans like Wales and dolphins.

What of sharks millions are killed daily by humans yet sharks have killed more people throe led poisoning from shark fin soup than actual shark attacks try to get a hippy to be serious about that! Hypocrites!

I only advocate the killing of animals when they are not endangered and are respectfully processed meaning most parts of the animals are not wasted. What dose it matter how you treat an animals when your going to put them throw a freaking meat grinder! Do you think a lion humanly kills a wildebeest when it starts eating the thing wile it's still alive. Think about it they take it down then it remains alive until it either bleeds to death or they eat something vital. Nature is brutal if any thing a desecrated veal calf is dam lucky to be used for nourishment by humans at least we kill them quickly when we finally do the deed!

and what the hell do you know about plants. For all you know millions of years from now they could evolve intelligence

key thing to note, at current they don't have intelligence and the likelihood of that ever happening is very low if the history of plant biology and evolution is anything to go by.

What do you know about the next few million years of evolution? This planet has 10 millions years left before the sun goes out and it should remain habitable for that even if we go extinct.

If you had seen early animals you'd think the same thing. I wonder do you feel sorry when you swat a fly well guess what before the rise of reptile's insects ruled the world they were more advanced than any other animal now there bugs so who's to say we won't be preyed upon by super intelligent Venus flytraps in a few millions years or so. Most invertebrates have no intelligence to speak of and were at times confused with plants. How is killing millions of mosquitoes any different than chickens and as fare as we know they feel pain so are you going to call bug spray companies Nazis now or are you going to admit that most hippies haven't a freaking clue what they are talking about regardless of weather or not they mean well.

there's a difference between killing animals to eat them and subjecting them to a tortured lifespan and being treated as a lifeless commodity.

Which is why I only advocate killing animals for food, not for beauty products or for some soiled rich girl's wardrobe? Of course if you kill an animal for food you shouldn't waist the fur or leather. As for a lifeless commodity I am pretty sure the meat industry considers animals alive. I an ardent conservative certainly do. As for a commodity what is a porpoises to a killer wail? They use them for nourishment is that not a commodity?

I am however pleased that you're finally presenting some form of argument rather than just stereotypical super left wing banter it kind of a step but you're a long long way from pulling a Regan.

At 8/28/07 12:48 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

At 8/27/07 09:37 PM, tony4moroney wrote: the whole idea behind eradicating the culture of marijuana has failed miserably. the only appropriate alternative proposition is as you say, regulation.

That's why I advocate regulation not prohibition. Have you even ready posts on the subject? You might actually agree with them. Remember my last topic http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7496 46.

Yes i have read that topic, i posted in it though i did forget you started it. i just simply said that regulation > prohibition. good to know we agree on this. anywhoo didnt you say you were a stern republican? how can a republican be such an advocate for regulation/ decriminalization of both drugs and prostitution and be such an advocate for secularism of the state? oh wait.. or were you the guy that talked about being a classic liberal i.e libertarian?

I'm curious, what are these animals you're referring to?

How about sea sponges they have long been killed for use by humans yet they are animals and feel no pain

The difference being intelligence.

My point is dumb hippy pseudo-environmentalist only care about cute animals and ignorantly ignore the fact that they enjoy products made from the desecrated copses of other life forms that deserve every much as protection as animals lucky enough to be considered cute by humans like Wales and dolphins.

Whales are an endangered species and dolphins are an extremely intelligent species with a few endangered also, in fact the yangtze river dolphin has been driven to extinction because of pollution in it's habitat. [1] You see there's a difference between whales, dolphins and sea sponges.

Also, i would hardly call the salmon cute and yet there are environmentalists fighting to protect their habitat from overfishing which is causing them to face extinction in the north atlantic. [1]

What of sharks millions are killed daily by humans yet sharks have killed more people throe led poisoning from shark fin soup than actual shark attacks try to get a hippy to be serious about that! Hypocrites!

There are environmentalists out there trying to protect sharks, I thought this was already quite obvious. For example. Hardly hypocritical.

I only advocate the killing of animals when they are not endangered and are respectfully processed meaning most parts of the animals are not wasted. What dose it matter how you treat an animals when your going to put them throw a freaking meat grinder! Do you think a lion humanly kills a wildebeest when it starts eating the thing wile it's still alive. Think about it they take it down then it remains alive until it either bleeds to death or they eat something vital. Nature is brutal if any thing a desecrated veal calf is dam lucky to be used for nourishment by humans at least we kill them quickly when we finally do the deed!

I've already addressed this previously

key thing to note, at current they don't have intelligence and the likelihood of that ever happening is very low if the history of plant biology and evolution is anything to go by.

What do you know about the next few million years of evolution? This planet has 10 millions years left before the sun goes out and it should remain habitable for that even if we go extinct.

Note: The year is 2007 not 2007+X million years. Plants at current do not have intelligence.

How is killing millions of mosquitoes any different than chickens

The difference being intelligence and of course perception is involved.

there's a difference between killing animals to eat them and subjecting them to a tortured lifespan and being treated as a lifeless commodity.

Which is why I only advocate killing animals for food, not for beauty products or for some soiled rich girl's wardrobe? Of course if you kill an animal for food you shouldn't waist the fur or leather. As for a lifeless commodity I am pretty sure the meat industry considers animals alive. I an ardent conservative certainly do. As for a commodity what is a porpoises to a killer wail? They use them for nourishment is that not a commodity?

That's your lone opinion. Try telling that to the millions of women [and men] out there buying beauty products derived from animals or using animals as test subjects.
Also, what i am saying is the process by which we get dead chickens is akin to treating them like a lifeless commodity, clearly youve never seen their living conditions so your assumption that the meat industry does not treat them as such is false.

I am however pleased that you're finally presenting some form of argument rather than just stereotypical super left wing banter it kind of a step but you're a long long way from pulling a Regan.

Pulling a reagan? anyhow if i make outlandish ridicolous comments be rest assured theyre more often then not just jokes.

At 8/25/07 12:49 PM, LabBattle wrote: You know whats great about trees........You cant hear them scream as you chop them down, hahaha

Anyways, saying joints is harmless is like saying smoking a pack of cigarets a day is harmless, I love the environment an all, but people come first. I dont get pissed when you eat your veggi burger, let me eat my red meat in peace.

First off, joints aren't harmless, but compared to cigarettes, they are practically so. Don't forget that nicotine is the third most addictive of the common drugs, only cocaine and heroin is worse (according to the world health organization).

Secondly, if you say that people come first, think about this: 25000 people die of starvation each day. For each unit of beef protein, you can get 10 units of soya protein on the same space and with the same energy. Also, soya has more important vitamins and such. And not to talk about water comsumption.

this looks like a job for eric cartman

I just hate the clothes they wear.

Hippie fashion is deadly.

At 8/27/07 07:47 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: Ok for one thing medicinal cannabis is not the same as pot sold on the streets. Regulated drug's are a harmless vice unregulated Drugs are a scourge that must either be regulated or destroyed there is no reasonable middle ground.

;
It must be nice living in Fantasia, you should post some pictures.

Although there is always a chance your going to get shit mixed in your pot from someone on the streets, it is very possible to get organically grown pot, no shit just buds, or at least that is the case everywhere I have ever been in Canada, & I've been to a lot of it.
In the U.S & Canada prescription drug abuse is a massive problem, where in excess of 20 % of people have abused prescription drugs.
with one drug Oxycontin being abused by people more than Heroin in their areas.

I think you may have been misinformed by the Fantasia news agencies.
try these

www.onpointradio.org/shows/2006/05/20060 511_a_main.asphttp://kap.samhsa.gov/prod ucts/brochures/advisory/pdfs/Oxycontin-A dvisory.pdf

At 8/28/07 01:21 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

At 8/28/07 12:48 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

At 8/27/07 09:37 PM, tony4moroney wrote: the whole idea behind eradicating the culture of marijuana has failed miserably. the only appropriate alternative proposition is as you say, regulation.

That's why I advocate regulation not prohibition. Have you even ready posts on the subject? You might actually agree with them. Remember my last topic http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7496 46.

Yes i have read that topic, i posted in it though i did forget you started it. i just simply said that regulation > prohibition. good to know we agree on this. anywhoo didnt you say you were a stern republican? how can a republican be such an advocate for regulation/ decriminalization of both drugs and prostitution and be such an advocate for secularism of the state? oh wait.. or were you the guy that talked about being a classic liberal i.e libertarian?

Not all republicans are brainless clones of Bush as you seem unfortunately to believe. I am very concerned about classical republican issue like the role of government in domestic issues and the need for national security a strong military and the need to be cautious of drastic changes when we make them not be overly apt to take leaps of faith. I could care less about gay marriage abortion and other pseudo-conservative Christian morality based issues and I criticize them often. As for the classic liberal comment I was responding to one not saying I was one. Honestly he made a good point most liberals and conservatives don't even know what those words mean. You also might be surprised how many things I would agree with if you can get past my non liberal ideas about how to deal with them.

The difference being intelligence.
Whales are an endangered species and dolphins are an extremely intelligent species with a few endangered also, in fact the yangtze river dolphin has been driven to extinction because of pollution in it's habitat. [1] You see there's a difference between whales, dolphins and sea sponges.
Also, i would hardly call the salmon cute and yet there are environmentalists fighting to protect their habitat from overfishing which is causing them to face extinction in the north atlantic. [1]
There are environmentalists out there trying to protect sharks, I thought this was already quite obvious. For example. Hardly hypocritical.

We are the only intelligent species on this planet. Some unintelligent species are close and some aren't close but as it is defined they aren't. How more intelligent are chickens from flies or mice or other pests that are killed with out a thought? Yes dolphins and Wails are endangered but you are talking about chickens. This topic isn't about conservationists it's about hippies! Flower children! Why are you defending them what do you really know about hippies? What good has there movement ever done all the positive changes made during the sixty's were caused by scientist's the hippies could agree but agreeing with something doesn't make you responsible for it. There revolution was based on the concept of a twisted mix of socialism drug addiction and the fulfillment of base desires. I am not saying there were bad. They perhaps meant well but they where misguided and ignorant. I will say however that a rational educated mind should know better. Don't hug the dam tree lobby for a bill that protects them!

I've already addressed this previously

When? Provide a link because I haven't gleamed any counter point in the arguments you have made in this topic, (at least not one that agues my point directly).

Note: The year is 2007 not 2007+X million years. Plants at current do not have intelligence.
The difference being intelligence and of course perception is involved.

Your right they don't have intelligence. Yet once again how intelligent are chickens or cows? The truth of the matter is heard herbivores like cattle never develop intelligence beyond simple instincts and basic communication, and no not communication as we know it just simple direction move, stay, run, and mate that's about it and most creature's do that like ants and bees which we kill constantly. Its predators like sharks and humans either carnivores or omnivores that develop skill and cunning. And sharks have in recent years surprised us with there abilities some like hammer heads even hunt in packs as do we.

That's your lone opinion. Try telling that to the millions of women [and men] out there buying beauty products derived from animals or using animals as test subjects.

I do at every opportunity! You shouldn't kill endangered species and you shouldn't waist parts of unendangered species that you do kill. You should like many ancient and modern hunters respect the animals you hunt and do so in the most unwasteful way possible. Being some rich brat who buys and endangered snow leopard pelt or some dumb redneck with white face pant mad with smuggled wail oil doesn't count and if it was up to me the girls would be fed to the leopards and the redneck thrown in the sea! As the great Babylonian leader Hammurabi said "If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out".

Also, what i am saying is the process by which we get dead chickens is akin to treating them like a lifeless commodity, clearly youve never seen their living conditions so your assumption that the meat industry does not treat them as such is false.

I have never said I wasn't in favor of reform in the meat industry as a republican I believe in limited governmental interference but I propose a tax initiative to make it more appealing for the meat industry to make reforms themselves rather than forcing them too which violates there rights. This way you don't force them you make it in there best interest this is politics don't forget you must be subtle even though that concept it's lost on most politicians nowadays in both parties. Sometimes I think we are a Schizophrenic socialistic oligarchy but then I mostly hear from neo conservatives and liberals who are mostly socialistic or nationalistic in one way, shape, or form.

Pulling a reagan? anyhow if i make outlandish ridicolous comments be rest assured theyre more often then not just jokes.

I mean realizing true conservatives aren't the monsters you seam to believe there are and that we are trying to accomplish all the things you liberals are but in a different way the sad truth is we are a dying breed much like conservative democrats Joe Lieberman's getting pretty lonely right now I'd imagine. I thought the metaphor was obvious. Then again I didn't catch your cool (coff-flavor-coff) aid reference so I guess where even.

As for jokes well consider the impact your joke have on those that take them seriously especially if they also agree. I like jokes and satire as much if not more as the next guy but please... Be less ambiguous.

At 8/28/07 05:20 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 8/27/07 07:47 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: Ok for one thing medicinal cannabis is not the same as pot sold on the streets. Regulated drug's are a harmless vice unregulated Drugs are a scourge that must either be regulated or destroyed there is no reasonable middle ground.

;
It must be nice living in Fantasia, you should post some pictures.

Although there is always a chance your going to get shit mixed in your pot from someone on the streets, it is very possible to get organically grown pot, no shit just buds, or at least that is the case everywhere I have ever been in Canada, & I've been to a lot of it.
In the U.S & Canada prescription drug abuse is a massive problem, where in excess of 20 % of people have abused prescription drugs.
with one drug Oxycontin being abused by people more than Heroin in their areas.

I think you may have been misinformed by the Fantasia news agencies.
try these

www.onpointradio.org/shows/2006/05/20060 511_a_main.asphttp://kap.samhsa.gov/prod ucts/brochures/advisory/pdfs/Oxycontin-A dvisory.pdf

What the hell are you talking about! For the last time I am in favor of legalizing and restricting them I said they must be destroyed or REGULATED! Not left up to drug dealers and insolently I live in Chelsea the home of the Latin king in Massachusetts. Where the hell do you live? Have you ever seen a crack addict? I once bought a (Probably stolen) radio from one for 5 bucks then my mom kicked out of her house when she tried to sell her pills. For the record I'm Italian not Spanish so I didn't exactly have a friendly relationship with the thugs in my neighborhood.

At 8/28/07 05:47 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

At 8/28/07 05:20 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 8/27/07 07:47 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

What the hell are you talking about! For the last time I am in favor of legalizing and restricting them I said they must be destroyed or REGULATED! Not left up to drug dealers

;
Your inability to comprehend those links makes me spell this out for you.
Many of the people who are addicted to perscription drugs , get that way because a DOCTOR perscibed them the drug in the first place.
That's right man, the Goverment system hooked them on pain killers.
Sure there is abuse of the system by some people, but go deeper into those links and read about people who would never think of touching drugs ,who have never smoked pot ,becoming addicts because of their perscriptions.
I just busted my left leg July of this year, 2 pins & a steel plate were put in , I was in some pain, they gave me a perscription in July for Morphine 60 pills at 15 milligrams , I was to take 1 & 1/2 t 3 pills every 4 to 6 hours for pain. I took 2 the first night so I could sleep.

When I got my perscription, do you know what stops you from reading the directions?
It needs to be physically removed so you can see the directions !
It is the names addresses & phone numbers for the Drug Dependency Clinics of this Province, you know why, because they know its highly addictive,but & I quote "The doctor has prescribed this medication because benefits, out weighs the possible side effects."
Can you believe that shit?
I was also given pills so my stomach/digestive systemwould continue to work, stool softner pills -that should be self explainitory- all to be able to get through the pain.
Lots of DRUGS costing me money ,increasing the profit for the drug companies ( all on the back of my pain & suffering)
< OR >
I could smoke a joint, take no pills get the munchies & have a couple of cold beers & relax.

The next day I went to see a good friend & got some decent pot. It did as good a job as the morphine.I didn't need any of the other pills.

While the harm caused by drug dealers & those addicted to the crack & E , Meth etc. is definately terrible & must be stopped, don't try to put all the blame on Drug Dealers.
The Goverment & Doctors know Pot can help ease pain. But they prefer to carry on with their chosen practices & the lobbiests for the huge pharmacuetical companies are behind it. Make pain medications the only choice & you maximize profit, allow pot to become widely know to be a pain killer about as dangerous & addictive as asprin and there goes those huge profits.

At 8/29/07 09:46 AM, morefngdbs wrote:

Your inability to comprehend those links makes me spell this out for you...

Your right and I think that also should be more scrutinized. I consider all pills used as anything other than treatment a vice. Cannabis in its pure from can be a pain killer and there for in that context should be legal. We should allow recreational drug use but regulate it so that its ability to cause harm is reduced. As things stand now: drugs can kill on the first try, cause brain and body damage, and even cause permanent insanity, not so much because of the drugs themselves but because of things added to them and the amount to which people abuse them.

As for pain killers your right we should have reforms that regulate the situations in which people are given pain killers and the amount given. However My dad recently suffered from a herniated disk and because of the strict regulations imposed on him to prevent just that, he had to spend 4 months in agony before they approved him for the use of Percocet reveled his pain greatly he has since recovered with no addiction to speak of.

I don't love the Idea of legalizing drugs but much like with alcohol the prohibition only makes things worse. My point was that we can't just legalize drugs and have that be it. We need to make sure that the drugs aren't abused and altered in a way that can make them a severe health risk. If you're not going to regulate them you had better destroy them, but it's not the best solution.

At 8/25/07 11:08 AM, Boarean wrote: ...

all this bitching makes me wonder whether or not you're a closet hippie.

At 8/29/07 09:46 AM, morefngdbs wrote:

Many of the people who are addicted to perscription drugs , get that way because a DOCTOR perscibed them the drug in the first place.

It's actually because these prescription drugs are highly addictive substances and it's difficult for a doctor to give each patient he sees a psychological assessment to determine if his patients have addictive personality before he prescribes them medication. also, it's most likely that these people didn't follow his recommendations in the first place and begun abusing the drugs administered.

"DIE HIPPIES DIE!"
Eric Cartmen.

At 8/29/07 05:46 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: I don't love the Idea of legalizing drugs but much like with alcohol the prohibition only makes things worse. My point was that we can't just legalize drugs and have that be it. We need to make sure that the drugs aren't abused and altered in a way that can make them a severe health risk. If you're not going to regulate them you had better destroy them, but it's not the best solution.

;
As to Prohibition & alcohol.
The ban on alcohol, only helped organized crime make massive amounts of money.
legalizing it again took away this cash cow.
I feel that putting marijuanna in the same catigory as cocain,crack,heroine etc. takes resources that police services use to fight a "drug war" .
I really feel that if marijuanna was treated the same as alcohol, then more police & financial resources would be able to turn their attention to the crack , meth & imported hard drugs.

Pot smoking does not destroy families. crack & heroin do. Do you wish to argue that those doing PCP or making & smoking crystal meth are as much a danger & as problematic as those who only like to smoke a little pot ?
I now know that hard drugs (coke & crack) are behind why my marriage deteriorated, people you love who are on that are incredibly sneaky, they will lie to you, steal from their own families and because of your love for them you, don't see it , or recognize what is happening ; until often it is too late.

Lol, I have several friends who are hippies.

At 8/25/07 11:15 AM, ApotheosisLost wrote: Third, weed is about as harmful as asprin, according to new studies in the UK and the Netherlands.

Oh, yeah, believe the Vikings and the chavs.

I hate hippies. (though I also hate beatniks.)

At 8/25/07 11:15 AM, ApotheosisLost wrote: Well, considering my aunt's a hippie, I'm going to set a few things straight.

Huzzah for your aunt! My mom was half hippie...

First, hippies DO take showers.

Yes they do, thank god.

Second, hippies DON'T make explosives.

No, no they don't. That's why I'm not a hippie, I like guns.

Third, weed is about as harmful as asprin, according to new studies in the UK and the Netherlands.

One more argument for me to use! BOUYA!

A lot of people misunderstand hippies, they're not as bad as people think.

No, no they're not.

And I'm not a hippie, and even I hate the massive industrialization that everyone's going through.

I miss mom and pop restaurants and stores, does that count?

At 9/1/07 09:31 PM, TonyTostieno wrote:

At 8/25/07 11:15 AM, ApotheosisLost wrote: Well, considering my aunt's a hippie, I'm going to set a few things straight.

Huzzah for your aunt! My mom was half hippie...

First, hippies DO take showers.

Yes they do, thank god.

Second, hippies DON'T make explosives.

No, no they don't. That's why I'm not a hippie, I like guns.

Third, weed is about as harmful as asprin, according to new studies in the UK and the Netherlands.

One more argument for me to use! BOUYA!

A lot of people misunderstand hippies, they're not as bad as people think.

No, no they're not.

And I'm not a hippie, and even I hate the massive industrialization that everyone's going through.

I miss mom and pop restaurants and stores, does that count?

No there not bad there annoying I don't like being preached to by some drugged out pacifist with as few remaining brain cells as a 5 year old kid with autism notice the spike in Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder in the 60's and 70's what we refer to a permanent insanity the hippies called a bad trip! I don't really care about weed but I am scared shitless by LSD THC and freaking Meth! Also if hippies ever managed to convince the entire nation of there beliefs we would be conquered an all fronts and self implode into anarchy in days. Think of a nation sized version of Woodstock. Also some hippies don't shower mostly because those same hippies are so drugged up all they smell is the color blue! Also if hippies had it their way there would be no stores because we should all share, love, and have massive hedonistic orgies wile out of our freaking minds on every drug under the sun! My ass, we should be as industrial as humanly possible and quite sober when we need to do anything important.

Wasn't woodstock a relativly peaceful event? I wouldn't mind having Jimi Hendrix and The Who playing a free show every day.

At 9/4/07 08:26 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

At 9/1/07 09:31 PM, TonyTostieno wrote:

At 8/25/07 11:15 AM, ApotheosisLost wrote:

And I'm not a hippie, and even I hate the massive industrialization that everyone's going through.

I miss mom and pop restaurants and stores, does that count?

yes that does count. i miss those stores too.. im sick of starbucks, im curious about what different coffeeshops from different neighborhoods can offer and this can be applied to everything.

No there not bad there annoying I don't like being preached to by some drugged out pacifist with as few remaining brain cells as a 5 year old kid with autism

it's all a conspiracy man, the govt. is doing some crazy shit and YOU. YOURE A SHEEPLE!

notice the spike in Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder in the 60's and 70's

No i didn't but thanks in advance for showing me some proof in your next post.

what we refer to a permanent insanity the hippies called a bad trip!

uhh... no comment..

Also if hippies ever managed to convince the entire nation of there beliefs we would be conquered an all fronts

yes because you know how countries cant stand those liberal pacifists..

Think of a nation sized version of Woodstock.

if only..

Also some hippies don't shower mostly because those same hippies are so drugged up all they smell is the color blue!

man this is such a stereotype

Also if hippies had it their way there would be no stores

Lie

we should all share, love, and have massive hedonistic orgies wile out of our freaking minds on every drug under the sun!

That sounds like f*cking nirvana

At 9/5/07 12:03 AM, tony4moroney wrote:

yes that does count. i miss those stores too.. im sick of starbucks, im curious about what different coffeeshops from different neighborhoods can offer and this can be applied to everything.

" "Jesus Christ dood there trying to get me," "Calm down Tweak have some coffee"

it's all a conspiracy man, the govt. is doing some crazy shit and YOU. YOURE A SHEEPLE!

Yeah it's a conspiracy. We never went to the moon, JFK live on a ranch in Scotland with Janis Joplin, and the only reason we were in the could war for the last 40 years is because snake headed aliens control the oil business. By the way how dose your tin foil hat fit?

No i didn't but thanks in advance for showing me some proof in your next post.

What are you lazy? Go look it up or better yet watch the history channel. I saw a guy standing in the corner and when they asked what was wrong with him a woman answered he thinks he's an orange. Also I know a few people that are Schizophrenia because of drugs like my friends Richi's cousin peter peter.

uhh... no comment..

I didn't think so.

yes because you know how countries cant stand those liberal pacifists..

No they would attack us because we have money they want it and with hippies running the country Cuba could conquer us let alone the scores of other enemies!

if only..

Your nuts

man this is such a stereotype

Maybe so but then so are you.

Lie

My ass hippies believe in communal living and sharing every thing so there would be no buying or selling because it's "evil capitalism ooh scary"

That sounds like f*cking nirvana

Yeah until we go extinct from an epidemic of overdose, STD's, and no food medicine science or for that matter anything close to intelligent. What kind of madman are you? Think about it if every one is high who is going to get food, teach, run, governments, and hand out condoms and syphilis medicine. Civilization would collapse anarchy would take hold and we would just be eaten by predators like a bunch of stupid week walking high stakes completely defenseless. Hell in that state anything could destroy us we would be animals except with no survival instincts due to massive drug and syphilis induced brain damage. Oh wait I get it; you know it took me a wile, but I finally get you, you're freaking insane!!!!!!!!

The only kind of hippy I dislike is the type that blames the government for things, (like 9/11) or denies things, (like 9/11) or thinks the media lies most of the time, or, for the very few, think that there are no terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan and think that US soldiers are the only ones that kill the civilians.
Oh, and before I forget, PETA, IF PEOPLE ARE WEARING FUR, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO WRECK THEIR CLOTHES!

At 9/6/07 05:17 PM, CaptainChip wrote: The only kind of hippy I dislike is the type that blames the government...

Amen the rest are just annoying.