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Saint? Ha! This looks like a killer place to die. No pun intended.

Of all the money dubiously collected by Mother Teresa and her organization over the decades she was in business, you'd think the Home for the Dying would be like the fucking Make a Wish Foundation India style. How much does it really take to give impoverished people more than a simple little cot to die on? Where is all that money going? I'd love to answer that question for you, but all that seems certain is that it isn't being spent on food, medical care or aid to the poor.

Mother Teresa won a Nobel Peace Prize. What did she ever do for peace? I mean, unless abortion constitutes a war by mothers on their unborn children.

Is it a cooincidence that the Catholic Chuch has been bending over backwards to make her a saint based on fraudulent evidence right in the middle of a huge child sex scandal?

Mother Teresa is not a saint. She's not even really that good of a person. A bunch of zealots shouldn't be allowed to distort the image of someone who has willfully prolonged suffering and failed to do what her marquee advertises.

Yeah.

If all that's true, I'm sure the Catholic church doesn't really care. They need to embellish the story of her life so that they can create another saint to kneel down and pray to add to their pantheon of other saints.

You know... for the merchandising.

Say what you will about the crusades, the killing people for heresy, child molesting, creating deities out of human beings etc... but you have to admit that they are clever capitalists.

*cough*
Warren Jeffs
*cough*

*eye rollie*

At 8/13/07 04:47 AM, fli wrote: *cough*
Warren Jeffs
*cough*

*eye rollie*

You're pretty dumb there, fli.

Your allusion to Warren Jeffs would only make sense if he actually belonged to the Church that I do, or if what he did took place when the churches were united, both are not the case.

What I said actually involved the singular, Catholic church that still exists under the same lineage of patriarchy that it did when those things took place. The Catholic church that I criticize today is the SAME CHURCH that it was back then, the same organization, the same singular religious monolith.

The church that Warren Jeffs belongs to specifically broke away from the church I belong to 80 years ago. And has done what it has done under an entirely different, separated, ex-communicated organization.

You might as well blame Catholics for what Southern Baptists do.

You may have been right on that guy. I didn't realize that guy came from a different branch. Just recalling what I remembered last year. HOWEVER... when that whole scandal was plastered on TV and the US experianced a minor lash on anything Mormonistic in nature... I did catch some juicy stuff on the official branch on Lou Doubs, Nancy Grace, Rush Limbagh, etc...

Like "Mormon malls"...
While I find it great that the Mormons believe in charity... too much of it went to building malls and expanding the LDS enterprise, and it was calculated that 1% percent actually went to charity aid. While this might not be the best site to cite... it at least records that such reports existed at that time... it's all a matter of me just shifting and googling at the right places. It was, after all, a hot topic for a day or two... Can probably pull stuff records from the official website (or at least, for certain churches) if they have records available online...

Look... Established religions have this kind of shit, and nobody's religion is extempt from this kind of shit. Perhaps this is one reason why I removed myself from following any religion, and instead just took part of helping any church's will to help people with need. And for me, I see Mother Teresa as a good person. Because she helped people, and that's the best quality anyone can have. And to believe that whatever religious organization you belong can't be wrong... because you're in it... That's called overweening pride = hubris.

I mean... think about it. If you're church is recognized world wide. How did it expand? While it's concievable to believe a church can be free of the need of money, to spread a message by mouth... but the physical foundation of anybuilding costs money. Next time you enter your temple, remember that somewhere money came in to build it. And we can exlude that God physically gave that money to build your nice temple, and our government. It came from your donation...

Which isn't bad...
but this has to be a humbling experiance for anyone who believes a certain church is better because the other church had an article pointing all its flaws.

Meh--
I just find it just perplexing that a guy like you can't believe that people may have experianced a miracle by a dead Catholic Indian woman, and believe in angels and stuff, often calling them pagans or whatever, when... you don't see the irony of yourself venerating and following a dead prophet, who may had a bad case of the God Complex, who witnessed a miracle when an angel came to him and gave him books and "peep stones." The very same prophet, who by the way, got arrested for looking the inside of rocks and crystals because he thought he could gain wisdom (yeah... gnarly man...) and used them for disorderly treasure hunting in a grotesque-scientology-type-of-wacky situation. (Arrest records can be found in the archives of the Mormon's library... just google "Joseph Smith arrest.")

Next topic: kettles calling pots fat and black...

The majority of the funds she received went to building nunneries and whatnot, all this was on an episode of Bullshit.

Luckilly for Mother Teresa she's really not up against some tough historic competition when it comes to saints.

- Missionaries: dispised, as christianity itself is a blight upon the world
- Healers: discredited, as the only real way to getting better is through small doses of extremely powefull chemicals being injected into your bloodstream.
- martyers: Only muslims one's are looked on as hero's.

All of which most likely had inflated stories of greatness and heroism.

St. Francis on the other hand is a rather interesting dood, but i bet 10,000 dollars someone could gather atleast 1 peice of historical dirt on his blighted Arse.

At 8/13/07 06:38 AM, fli wrote: You may have been right on that guy. I didn't realize that guy came from a different branch.

Um, actually you did. Warren Jeffs belongs to the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day Saints, not the OFFICIAL Mormon church which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You've made this distinction yourself:

At 8/2/07 02:30 AM, fli wrote: "Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS) is not associated with regular Mormonism (LDS)."

Why punish the official and benign church for a quacky extremely fundamentalist's actions?

Lets leave them alone...

So either you intentionally decided to play dumb and ignore this because you wanted to appeal to irony, or you just basically don't know wtf you're talking about.

Like "Mormon malls"...
While I find it great that the Mormons believe in charity... too much of it went to building malls and expanding the LDS enterprise, and it was calculated that 1% percent actually went to charity aid. While this might not be the best site to cite...

You always love to link to sites that aren't credible don't you? That site is 100% full of crap, the only article it linked to to validate anything it said no longer exists, everything else was just unsourced, nonsensical diatribe.

Look... Established religions have this kind of shit, and nobody's religion is extempt from this kind of shit.

The LDS church doesn't have that kind of shit, in any comparable way whatsoever. Last time I checked, the people in my church, the teachers and bishops and counselors etc.. including my dad who is a high counselor... they have separate jobs, they aren't paid. The LDS church I believe, is the only Christian church where the leaders don't make profit, where people aren't payed for preaching the Gospel. Both Bibles and Books of Mormon are given freely, church literature is free. Members aren't forced to pay tithing either, nor are they told they are sinning if they don't. The LDS church does put most tithing money into developments, most notably churches and temples, but this is entirely accepted, and the whole "Mormon Malls" thing is quite a load of propaganda.

And every single time someone tries to prove to the contrary, they do what you just did, they source THE most outlandish, non-credible nonsense.

Perhaps this is one reason why I removed myself from following any religion,

Um, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that your lifestyle is specifically forbidden by your former church. could it?

and instead jut toosk part of helping any church's will to help people with need. And for me, I see Mother Teresa as a good person. Because she helped people, and that's the best quality anyone can have.

I help people, I've done over 1000 hours of community service, I hold the door for elderly people and I always give my entire tax deduction to charity (outside of chruch tithing). Should I be turned into a saint? Better yet, look at Bill Gates, he's given BILLIONS of dollars to charity. Should people make him into a statue, and a focal point of prayer and religious devotion when he dies?

And to believe that whatever religious organization you belong can't be wrong... because you're in it... That's called overweening pride = hubris.

Not for me it's not. Because I didn't even go to church for several years. I didn't believe a word of the Mormon religion for a long time. But then I had a religious epiphany to the degree that I can't even describe in words, where I instantly knew I was wrong, and that I was fighting against something that was right. Now, I'm not going to go into great detail about this. But just know that my firm conviction is not hereditary or a sense of pride, it is an educated, inspired view that I developed, not acquired. It is a culmination of several points or reference, mixed with education, as well as personal experience. I don't trust my church because I have pride in it, I trust it because it is trustworthy, and I know it to be.

I mean... think about it. If you're church is recognized world wide. How did it expand? While it's concievable to believe a church can be free of the need of money, to spread a message by mouth... but the physical foundation of anybuilding costs money.

I am fully aware of this. No Mormon thinks that all their money goes to 3rd world countries, nor are led to believe that this is the case by the church. But just because it is true that tithing goes to buildings, doesn't mean that the wacky stories you link to are true, just because it had a tiny bit of truth, which was only that yes, the LDS church spends money on development.

Next time you enter your temple, remember that somewhere money came in to build it. And we can exlude that God physically gave that money to build your nice temple, and our government. It came from your donation...

Well, let's just say that once I started paying tithing my income tripled within a month... before my next tithing payment. Coincidence... maybe. But I give the credit to God and I have absolutely zero problem paying 10% of my income to the church, because the MOMENT I started going back to church my life became a success story after I was on the verge of becoming a statistic.

I just find it just perplexing that a guy like you can't believe that people may have experianced a miracle by a dead Catholic Indian woman,

Firstly, because I believe that the Catholic church is wrong, and because if there is a miracle or not, it still doesn't void the requirements articulated in the Bible that people DO NOT pray to physical objects.

Even if Mother Teresa was a great person, even if she went straight to heaven. This still doesn't mean that praying to her and creating idols of her effigy somehow doesn't count, even though it is specifically forbidden by God himself.

... you don't see the irony of yourself venerating and following a dead prophet,

Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith, we don't pray to him, we don't bow down before statues of him. Thus making it incomparable to what Catholics do, which is against the 1st Commandment.

who may had a bad case of the God Complex, who witnessed a miracle when an angel came to him

See, you're trying to make it seem as if I'm hypocritical for simply believing in miracles for my church but not for others. When you KNOW that was not in anyway what I suggested. I criticized Catholics for creating adeity, and idol, out of human being.

and gave him books and "peep stones."

You mean the Urim and Thummim... which were mentioned in the Bible.

The very same prophet, who by the way, got arrested for looking the inside of rocks and crystals because he thought he could gain wisdom

Mmhmm, and the people who filed those charges were probably the same people that murdered him while he was sitting in a jail cell.

in a grotesque-scientology-type-of-wacky situation. (Arrest records can be found in the archives of the Mormon's library... just google "Joseph Smith arrest.")

I've seen the arrest records.

Next topic: kettles calling pots fat and black...

Actually no, and your connections are pretty nonexistent.

I criticized Catholicism for deifying mortals, and you have to go and twist it around to make it seem that I'm hypocritical for believing in miracles.

At 8/13/07 07:21 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote:

- martyers: Only muslims one's are looked on as hero's.

Yeah, because no body celebrates Martin Luther Kings birthday. And Texas never honors the people who fought for the Alamo. And France doesn't hold MASSIVE celebrations for Jone of Arc. And who the fucks remembers Jesus of Nazereth, anyways?

At 8/13/07 05:21 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 8/13/07 04:47 AM, fli wrote: *cough*
Warren Jeffs
*cough*

*eye rollie*

You're pretty dumb there, fli.

You might as well blame Catholics for what Southern Baptists do.

;
Might as well, your all pretty much the same, attempting to buy your way into heaven.
Pushing your dogma & stupidity on those ,who in many cases are to uneducated or even cognizant of what is out there & how huge a lie religion in every case truely is.

Oh, god no............. don't excommunicate me, L.M.A.O.
What, I'm not going to heaven 'cause I ain't been baptised & found Jesus..... Damn it , its not my fault I went under the water there 5 times & I couldn't find Jesus !
Are you guy's sure this is where he fell in?
LOL
(& for you Fli )
*eye rollie *

At 8/13/07 03:20 AM, Jerconjake wrote: Saint? Ha! This looks like a killer place to die. No pun intended.

Hitchens was actually allowed to write a scathing review of Mother Teresa out of tradition. In days of old the Church would write such pieces on possible saints themselves (promotor fidei), but JPII abolished it. For MT, the Church asked Hitchens to write a review against her canonization.

I wanted to point that out because I think you made it sound like it was a big coverup or something, when in actuality Hitchens was asked by the Church to write such a review of Mother Teresa.

Where is all that money going? I'd love to answer that question for you, but all that seems certain is that it isn't being spent on food, medical care or aid to the poor.

From your own link, we can at least hint at a few other places:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/22 99217.stm

"Mr Ghosh says his association, which seeks to promote rational and scientific thinking in India, would expect the West Bengal Government to take legal action against the Missionaries of Charity. "

Maybe part is spent on legal fees?

Mother Teresa won a Nobel Peace Prize. What did she ever do for peace? I mean, unless abortion constitutes a war by mothers on their unborn children.

From my simple google skills, I got the official reason as "for work undertaken in the struggle to overcome poverty and distress, which also constitute a threat to peace."

Is it a cooincidence that the Catholic Chuch has been bending over backwards to make her a saint based on fraudulent evidence right in the middle of a huge child sex scandal?

could be. She started beatification in 97, but I don't remember when all the hooplah about sex scandals started....

But she was also one of the most internationally known humanitarians, and JPII was notorious for turning the Vatican into a Saint factory......

Mother Teresa is not a saint. She's not even really that good of a person. A bunch of zealots shouldn't be allowed to distort the image of someone who has willfully prolonged suffering and failed to do what her marquee advertises.

Well that's your opinion.

The LDS church doesn't have that kind of shit, in any comparable way whatsoever.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_ra ce.htm

Pushing your dogma & stupidity on those ,who in many cases are to uneducated or even cognizant of what is out there & how huge a lie religion in every case truely is.

*too* uneducated.

I just like being a grammar nazi when people make claims of intelligence.

At 8/13/07 12:56 PM, Imperator wrote:

Pushing your dogma & stupidity on those ,who in many cases are to uneducated or even cognizant of what is out there & how huge a lie religion in every case truely is.

*too* uneducated.

I just like being a grammar nazi when people make claims of intelligence.

Seig hail ,mein Fuher.
I'm sorry typing (usually witherrors) & proof reading are not any of my strengths ; luckily none of them are required to hang your show safely. (please see photo on user page) that is what I specialize in.

At 8/13/07 01:04 PM, morefngdbs wrote: Seig hail ,mein Fuher.
I'm sorry typing (usually witherrors) & proof reading are not any of my strengths ; luckily none of them are required to hang your show safely. (please see photo on user page) that is what I specialize in.

It's all good. I'd probably end up a "statistic" if I tried to do what you do. I'd somehow break my own neck trying to hang that stuff up....

To each his own.

Right. Mother Teresa isn't a good person. She only devoted herself to a life of service to her religion and not only lived the dedicated life of a nun, but was pious enough to be known the world over for her deeds.

You're so full of shit.

Besides, you don't sound like a catholic based on your post. So, why are you concerned with who the catholic church canonizes?

At 8/13/07 03:44 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Yeah.

If all that's true, I'm sure the Catholic church doesn't really care. They need to embellish the story of her life so that they can create another saint to kneel down and pray to add to their pantheon of other saints.

Both you and the post starter impress me so much with your internet researching and enlightening take on religion and charity. Mother Theresa might as well have sat down in front of a computer and looked for dirt on other supposed "great" people of our times. That's who the Catholic Church should be christening as saints, right? People who sit on their asses and post defamatory garbage about people who live their lives making, you know, real differences.

I'm not offended by your post. More or less surprised how horribly fake you are in standing up for truth in religion. Or truth at all.

Warrens Jeff is a sick fuck the "prophet" of the fundy Mormon church marrying 13 year old girls to middle aged men with two or three wives already ick.

At 8/13/07 07:55 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:/*d

The LDS church doesn't have that kind of shit, in any comparable way whatsoever. Last time I checked, the people in my church, the teachers and bishops and counselors etc.. including my dad who is a high counselor... they have separate jobs, they aren't paid. The LDS church I believe, is the only Christian church where the leaders don't make profit, where people aren't payed for preaching the Gospel. Both Bibles and Books of Mormon are given freely, church literature is free. Members aren't forced to pay tithing either, nor are they told they are sinning if they don't. The LDS church does put most tithing money into developments, most notably churches and temples, but this is entirely accepted, and the whole "Mormon Malls" thing is quite a load of propaganda.

Cellardoor, your words are true, but your message is false. The LDS church is following the same fatal flaw Catholicism did; MY church does it this way, THEIR church does it that way. WE use money this way, THEY use money that way. Throw out whatever rhyme or reasons the LDS church does what it does, but it's the same damn equation. You can throught out Catholics worshiping statues on my end, and I can throw out that Mormons don't even follow the Bible on your end. Seriously, we can do that probably for godamn ever and it'll get us nowhere.

Instead of shitting on Mother Theresa as much as I could shit on LDS founders, what the hell is so wrong with meeting eye to eye and saying these people weren't perfect, but they're worthy of the reputation that precedes them?

One of the hardest things about being a true Christian isn't the faith in God, it's the faith in how other people believe in God.

At 8/13/07 03:25 PM, Nylo wrote: One of the hardest things about being a true Christian isn't the faith in God, it's the faith in how other people believe in God.

I agree that we should respect others believes, but who has the right to classify some as a ture Christian.

That picture only shows a very small fraction of the people Mother Theresa was helping. Furthermore, the money she received in donations went to food, medical supplies, clothing and shelter for not only the sick and poor, but also the nuns in the convent.

But I suppose her providing food, shelter, clothing and care to the poor of India was deplorable. It was better to let them live on the streets and drink dirty water where they'd most likely die of dysentery. That's much more humane. In fact, yes, she was definitely hoarding all the funds. Look at all the jewelry she wore and the clothes she bought. She ate the finest quality every night while everyone ate the scraps at her table. Yeah, it definitely shows.

Face it, the reason you hate her is because she's religious. But you're not attacking Princess Diana. She helped Mother Theresa, she went to Africa, she went to Asia, and yet, at the end of the day, she still was able to go home to a palace. Does that mean that because her work did nothing? Because she's pretty and died when she was young her work means more? It's neither. They were both extraordinary women. How about you even work at a soup kitchen in your local neighborhood. It's hard work, it costs a lot and every little bit of donation helps. The people work for free because, you know what? At the end of the day, they have families and jobs. They haven't devoted their entire lives to feeding the poor, just a few hours of their time. So, until you recognize even a minor semblance of the labor that Mother Theresa did, you don't have the right to discredit her work.

At 8/13/07 07:55 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: So either you intentionally decided to play dumb and ignore this because you wanted to appeal to irony, or you just basically don't know wtf you're talking about.

Hey... they call themselves Mormons. Albiet a type of different Mormons.
I said fine... they're not the official Mormons of your Church. But this does not mean that they're not Mormons because they do call themselves Mormons of a different branch. Just because you don't personally believe that they're not "true Mormons" doesn't change that fact... Once more... Mormons. Just only of a different branch.

You always love to link to sites that aren't credible don't you? That site is 100% full of crap...

It's only a matter of shifting through the official stuff... since I know there's a news article floating around... it's a matter of buying it. This link just mentions what was once a hot topic for Fox. And OF ALL PEOPLE to be talking about linking crap... you are the meister of that. But I have enough sense to call on it first and to explain why I'm using it. Which wasn't evidence... just to show that what I have said has its roots in the actual event.

Where as you... who would link stuff up to Atzlan and shit, and believe it's all true just because it's true according to the Dogmm of Cellar... funny, how you never even called out on that article... Because it's convenient for you not to.

*eye rollie*

The LDS church doesn't have that kind of shit, in any comparable way whatsoever.

Ha...
Back in high school I remember the case of Greg Foster who brought it to court. It took quite a lot of investigational work to remember and to carefully shift the Salt Lake Tribune... but I did find that specific case (it's the 26th hit), and guess what... PURCHASED IT... And don't worry... there were others I've heard before. And mutterings of hushed cases. It's a matter of digging stuff up.

Salt Lake Tribune, The (UT)

Date: March 26, 1998
Edition: Final
Page: B2

Sex Abuse Lawsuit Blames LDS Church, Bishop
STEPHEN HUNT THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Salt Lake Tribune
A lawsuit filed last week in Oregon claims that an 11-year-old boy was sexually molested by a Mormon Sunday School teacher because the LDS Church has a policy of refusing to tell authorities of child sex abuse by church members. ``Preposterous,'' said church spokesman Don LeFevre on Wednesday.

``On the contrary, the church has a clear and longstanding policy regarding assistance to child abuse victims . . . including that church leaders should obey the law regarding abuse and cooperate with law enforcement.''
The lawsuit claims church leaders and an Oregon bishop, in particular, knew 87-year-old Sunday School teacher Franklin Richard Curtis had sexually abused children, but never told police or church members.
And Bishop Gregory Lee Foster remained silent about Curtis' misdeeds when the 11-year-old boy's mother informed the bishop of her plans to take in and care for the elderly man, the suit claims.
In about 1990, Curtis was living in a Portland retirement home when he told the boy's family he would like to live out his remaining years in a family environment, according to the lawsuit.
After consulting with the bishop, the family invited Curtis to live with them. Curtis moved in and stayed for about a year.
For about six months of his stay, on almost a daily basis, Curtis sexually abused the victim, the suit claims. In 1993, the boy's family moved to Washington state and the victim disclosed he had been molested.
The boy's mother called police, and Curtis was arrested, charged and eventually pleaded no contest to a sexual abuse charge. Because of his age, he received probation. He died in a nursing home in 1995.
Meanwhile, the victim's mother had contacted Foster to warn him about Curtis. But Foster revealed he had been aware -- from Curtis himself, and from other church leaders -- that Curtis had sexually molested other children, the lawsuit alleges.
Indeed, years before the Oregon incident, Curtis was excommunicated from the Mormon Church in Pennsylvania for sexually abusing children -- information which was communicated to Oregon church leaders, the suit alleges. He was later re-baptized and had similar troubles in another Portland church ward, where he allegedly molested five children who were members.
The lawsuit seeks unspecified monetary damages from the Mormon Church and Foster.
LeFevre said the church ``categorically denies any liability'' to the Oregon plaintiffs.
``The church deplores child abuse in all its forms,'' he added. ``It was not involved in any way in the abuse, which occurred in the plaintiff's own home by a man the family invited to live with them.''

(c) 1998 The Salt Lake Tribune. All rights reserved. Reproduced with the permission of Media NewsGroup, Inc. by NewsBank, Inc.

And of course here's an old archived email from that time from a legal research website

... and the whole "Mormon Malls" thing is quite a load of propaganda.

What are you talking about? They do exist because there are Mormon blogs right now writting about a recent decision to permit alchol to be sold at certain malls owned by the LDS. The fact that Mormons are upset about beer being sold suggestd that Mormons have malls to be upset over about.

And every single time someone tries to prove to the contrary, they do what you just did, they source THE most outlandish, non-credible nonsense.

Just wait... I'm sifting the archives of Fox, and Salt Lake Tribune. Then

Um, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that your lifestyle is specifically forbidden by your former church. could it?

They treat me well. Every church I've been into have treated me well and allowed me to help them in the cause to help the poor. That even includes a Mormon church right next to San Jose State! (I helped them for a food drive 2 years ago. And they had enough sense to leave me alone when my husband gave me a quick peck at the cheek.)

and instead jut toosk part of helping any church's will to help people with need. And for me, I see Mother Teresa as a good person. Because she helped people, and that's the best quality anyone can have.

I help people, I've done over 1000 hours of community service, I hold the door for elderly people and I always give my entire tax deduction to charity (outside of chruch tithing). Should I be turned into a saint? Better yet, look at Bill Gates, he's given BILLIONS of dollars to charity. Should people make him into a statue, and a focal point of prayer and religious devotion when he dies?

They believe she came from the dead and did miracles... which is the requirement for sainthood.

...because I have pride in it, I trust it because it is trustworthy, and I know it to be.

And a degree of blindness to it. You're no better off than those people who want Mother Teresa to be a saint. For all I know, they have really want it enough to disillusion themselves to think she performed miracles from the dead... and it doesn't really matter for me. But what makes me cross is the bickering of a religious person to another one. And for you, you will never find any fault in the official branch LDS. And to see a prideful man like you attempt to bash another's by saying something discreediting is so odd... because Mormons don't like to believe Joseph Smith was arrested. Yet, physical arrest records exist from that event. And I know in some way that will upset you because you have your perception already made (or blindess...)

You believe in miracles (well, it's required in your faith.) Why can't you let others believe in miracles... other than the one you believe in?

And if you're so understanding that not all money the LDS donates goes to charity... but to building churches in 3rd world countries... why can't you believe that Mother Teresa's people were doing the same thing?

Because it's blindess and hypocrisy.

You believe in miracles (well, it's required in your faith.) Why can't you let others believe in miracles... other than the one you believe in?

**waves hand**
Ooh ooh! I KNOW this one!!!!

Ahem:

"Because the Catholic Church is corrupt....blahLINK blah IDOLATRY....blah blah rapists..LINK...blah blah Crusades......GOD FORBID..LINK..blah blah...LINK LINK LINK...disingenuous lying, uneducated, pathetic excuse for a human being"

;)

At 8/13/07 07:35 PM, Imperator wrote: "Because the Catholic Church is corrupt....blahLINK blah IDOLATRY....blah blah rapists..LINK...blah blah Crusades......GOD FORBID..LINK..blah blah...LINK LINK LINK...disingenuous lying, uneducated, pathetic excuse for a human being"

You need to grow up a little, with all those blahs you seem to be acting like a little kid. The Crusades happened a long time ago, long be for any of us were born so don't hold a grudge. I don't know where you are getting the rapists from. I'm pretty sure they are educated.

At 8/13/07 07:52 PM, LordJaric wrote: You need to grow up a little, with all those blahs you seem to be acting like a little kid. The Crusades happened a long time ago, long be for any of us were born so don't hold a grudge. I don't know where you are getting the rapists from. I'm pretty sure they are educated.

all shit I think you were just messing around now, mocking someone or something, my bad.

At 8/13/07 03:33 PM, LordJaric wrote: I agree that we should respect others believes, but who has the right to classify some as a ture Christian.

Think of it this way, LJ. If a Christian followed his or her beliefs while respecting others, do you think they would be closer or further away from the morality they're supposed to adhere to in the Bible? How about this, a tru-ER Christian would respect the tranquility and gift of free-choice God has given us all, instead of openly judging others and holding it against them.

At 8/13/07 07:55 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Even if Mother Teresa was a great person, even if she went straight to heaven. This still doesn't mean that praying to her and creating idols of her effigy somehow doesn't count, even though it is specifically forbidden by God himself.

Wait a second Mr. Kettle... you say that, even it were true, that people bring Mother Teresa on a diety level (but, that's only your perception), yet... the LDS believe that ANYONE can become a god.

Once again... you complain of percieved immorality of people who believe a woman is a saint, believing they're making her into diety... YET, you're part of a religion that believes people can become gods (or even "the God"... both of which far excel in being a mere diety...) I'm probably not far off to suggest that you may believe you may become a god, Cellar. Imagine that folks... Cellar, as your god.

The man who bypassed "diety-ship" (unlike Mother Terresa) and went directly to Godhood.
*eye rolllie*

C'mon Celllar... you're throwing stones in your glass house by making such criticisms to a religion that very much closely parallel's yours in terms of faith (and even scandals.) And if I could be any meaner (lucky for the world... I'm not) or even more cynical (luck for me... things would be too unbearable by then) I would just chuck your religion as a quacky cult on par with Xeno and its alien spirits. But since I do hold a great degree of respect for all religions and readily forgive all their inconsistancies, I'm not a full blown jerk. I accept your beliefs as a valid faith that is no more or no less with the Catholic dogma.

I'm just cynical and mean to other mean religious cynics.

Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith, we don't pray to him, we don't bow down before statues of him. Thus making it incomparable to what Catholics do, which is against the 1st Commandment.

Okay, I accept that. But too bad you can't accept that Catholics certainly don't pray to the supposed "other dieties" that you believe. At most, Catholics have saints and martyrs... but what about Joseph Smith? He had ex-humans and Gods.

See, you're trying to make it seem as if I'm hypocritical for simply believing in miracles for my church but not for others. When you KNOW that was not in anyway what I suggested. I criticized Catholics for creating adeity, and idol, out of human being.

throwing stones in glass houses...

The very same prophet, who by the way, got arrested for looking the inside of rocks and crystals because he thought he could gain wisdom

Mmhmm, and the people who filed those charges were probably the same people that murdered him while he was sitting in a jail cell.

No, this was the county, but kudos to me for illustrating how you could be so quick to defend any slight suggestion of scandal of your church and your ability to turn a bllind eye...

It could be due to the guys who killed him... but I'm more apt too believe in the possibility that a city record with testimonies from police, witnesses, and stuff like found in criminal records that could be so easily falsified.

But it doesn't matter... I don't personally believe it's all that bad. He only got arrested for using peep stones and perhaps acting like a crazy... He was no immoral person such as a murderer and such. I recognize good people can go to jail just like Ghandi and MLK.

All I'm just trying to illustrate to you is that your church is like the Catholic church... for both members believe that their heros can't do any wrong, and that both institutions have followers whom believe their church can't be fallible. That there can't be scandal (just found out on the Salt Lake Tribune of an old scandal pertaining a certain sexual clergy fiend by the name of Lloyd Gerald Pond and a 14 year old girl... and there's an unresolved issue of the 2002 Winter Olympic games and LDS money... and I'm suddenly found a whole lot of interest in a lead about church leader Howard W. Hunter and his involvement in the failed Deseret Federal Savings and Loan... taxpayers taking the blunt of a 99.2 million tax debt, and the FBI...)

I criticized Catholicism for deifying mortals, and you have to go and twist it around to make it seem that I'm hypocritical for believing in miracles.

It is hypocritical of you when you criticize the Catholic Church. While I'm always criticizing the Catholic Church, I at least don't claim another religion makes more logical sense (or Atheism, for that matter of fact. Because I don't think atheism is any better... it just worked better for me.) But you must learn humility... I think it's great that you're a Mormon, but your pride and blindness is making a two face out of you. And if I list a bunch of scandals (the last ones I've listed can be found in summaries of the the Salt Lake Tribune's Archive Search... (just type in the keywords)... it's not because I'm not trying too shake your faith or anything like that.

I'm just a cynic of other cynics-- and so, the best way to learn humility is to admit fallacy... and let alone the beliefs of other people and actively work to be their friends and perhaps even help them in wholesome activities. I've helped the Mormon church once by helping them to serve the poor. I've done that for the Catholics, Jesuits, and even Jehova Witnesses. And you know what I learned in that humility?

That despite everyone has their bickerings and are ultimately fucked up in their ideology... what counts most is that they are at heart a good and compassionate people. People like Joseph Smith... and people like Mother Teresa. Heck... people like you and me.

what counts most is that they are at heart a good and compassionate people. People like Joseph Smith... and people like Mother Teresa. Heck... people like you and me.

Words to live by. Stand up and take a bow!

*Thunderous applause*

That's probably the most spot on comment of the entire thread....maybe even the entire BBS.

At 8/13/07 12:20 PM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote:

At 8/13/07 07:21 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote:

- martyers: Only muslims one's are looked on as hero's.

Yeah, because no body celebrates Martin Luther Kings birthday. And Texas never honors the people who fought for the Alamo. And France doesn't hold MASSIVE celebrations for Jone of Arc. And who the fucks remembers Jesus of Nazereth, anyways?

MLK was a plagiarist, a communist, an adulterer, a fornicator, a gambler, and a drunk who spent all the money he received performing such degenerate acts.

Fuck Martin Lucifer Koon and all his descendants unto the tenth generation!

At 8/14/07 12:44 AM, DigitalMandrill wrote:

MLK was a plagiarist, a communist, an adulterer, a fornicator, a gambler, and a drunk who spent all the money he received performing such degenerate acts.

Fuck Martin Lucifer Koon and all his descendants unto the tenth generation!

Wonderful. We still celebrate his birthday. Meaning he was wrong. Meaning your wrong for agreeing with him. Meaning your stupid, and a racist.

Yay!

At 8/13/07 12:52 PM, Imperator wrote:

At 8/13/07 03:20 AM, Jerconjake wrote:

Hitchens was actually allowed to write a scathing review of Mother Teresa out of tradition. In days of old the Church would write such pieces on possible saints themselves (promotor fidei), but JPII abolished it. For MT, the Church asked Hitchens to write a review against her canonization.

I wanted to point that out because I think you made it sound like it was a big coverup or something, when in actuality Hitchens was asked by the Church to write such a review of Mother Teresa.

That being so, it's not the coverup that's the story, it's the story itself. Actually, it's good that you make light of that so we can avoid all those needless "Hitchens is just an anti-Church atheist pig" arguments.

Where is all that money going? I'd love to answer that question for you, but all that seems certain is that it isn't being spent on food, medical care or aid to the poor.

From your own link, we can at least hint at a few other places:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/22 99217.stm

"Mr Ghosh says his association, which seeks to promote rational and scientific thinking in India, would expect the West Bengal Government to take legal action against the Missionaries of Charity. "

Maybe part is spent on legal fees?

I really don't think so. This is pretty recent, and she was almost untouchable for some time before that.

Mother Teresa won a Nobel Peace Prize. What did she ever do for peace? I mean, unless abortion constitutes a war by mothers on their unborn children.

From my simple google skills, I got the official reason as "for work undertaken in the struggle to overcome poverty and distress, which also constitute a threat to peace."

Yeah, I just don't buy that. That's as obscure a reference to serving peace as the quote from her acceptance speech.

At 8/13/07 03:42 PM, LadyGrace wrote: That picture only shows a very small fraction of the people Mother Theresa was helping. Furthermore, the money she received in donations went to food, medical supplies, clothing and shelter for not only the sick and poor, but also the nuns in the convent.

That picture shows Mother Teresa helping people? The nuns in the convent are the beneficiaries of all the money that could have been going to those dying people on cots? Yeah, all 4000 of them, worldwide. Some of those same nuns have attested to these claims.

But I suppose her providing food, shelter, clothing and care to the poor of India was deplorable. It was better to let them live on the streets and drink dirty water where they'd most likely die of dysentery. That's much more humane. In fact, yes, she was definitely hoarding all the funds. Look at all the jewelry she wore and the clothes she bought. She ate the finest quality every night while everyone ate the scraps at her table. Yeah, it definitely shows.

It might have been better to give those dying people a little more than a bed to die on and a last meal. I mean, that's what we give people who are about to have death sentences carried out. Maybe money taken from the people of Haiti might have been better spent?

Face it, the reason you hate her is because she's religious. But you're not attacking Princess Diana. She helped Mother Theresa, she went to Africa, she went to Asia, and yet, at the end of the day, she still was able to go home to a palace. Does that mean that because her work did nothing? Because she's pretty and died when she was young her work means more? It's neither. They were both extraordinary women.

Whoa. Who even said anything about Princess Diana? Face it, the reason you're bringing her up is to deflect attention away from Mother Teresa. If you'd stop pulling stuff out of thin air, you'd have realized by now that I hate Mother Teresa because I strongly disagree with her conduct and ethics. Incidently, Princess Diana isn't up for sainthood here, nor did she claim to devote her whole life to the poor. She is still a Princess at the end of the day, and Mother Teresa was still a nun with the use of Charles Keating's private jet.

How about you even work at a soup kitchen in your local neighborhood. It's hard work, it costs a lot and every little bit of donation helps. The people work for free because, you know what? At the end of the day, they have families and jobs. They haven't devoted their entire lives to feeding the poor, just a few hours of their time. So, until you recognize even a minor semblance of the labor that Mother Theresa did, you don't have the right to discredit her work.

How about people who have devoted their whole lives to feeding the poor? Being a Missionary of Charity means that that life IS your life. Shouldn't they, given proper resources and funding, be able to help people a little more than what is being done?

At 8/13/07 01:52 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote: You're so full of shit.

Besides, you don't sound like a catholic based on your post. So, why are you concerned with who the catholic church canonizes?

This isn't about who is canonized or not. Frankly, I don't give a damn. What bothers me is that fraud is being committed to canonize someone whose beliefs are probably harmful to the world. Such as her views on contraception in over-populated regions, and the cult of suffering surrounding the treatment of the sick and dying.