At 8/13/07 06:38 AM, fli wrote:
You may have been right on that guy. I didn't realize that guy came from a different branch.
Um, actually you did. Warren Jeffs belongs to the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day Saints, not the OFFICIAL Mormon church which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You've made this distinction yourself:
At 8/2/07 02:30 AM, fli wrote:
"Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS) is not associated with regular Mormonism (LDS)."
Why punish the official and benign church for a quacky extremely fundamentalist's actions?
Lets leave them alone...
So either you intentionally decided to play dumb and ignore this because you wanted to appeal to irony, or you just basically don't know wtf you're talking about.
Like "Mormon malls"...
While I find it great that the Mormons believe in charity... too much of it went to building malls and expanding the LDS enterprise, and it was calculated that 1% percent actually went to charity aid. While this might not be the best site to cite...
You always love to link to sites that aren't credible don't you? That site is 100% full of crap, the only article it linked to to validate anything it said no longer exists, everything else was just unsourced, nonsensical diatribe.
Look... Established religions have this kind of shit, and nobody's religion is extempt from this kind of shit.
The LDS church doesn't have that kind of shit, in any comparable way whatsoever. Last time I checked, the people in my church, the teachers and bishops and counselors etc.. including my dad who is a high counselor... they have separate jobs, they aren't paid. The LDS church I believe, is the only Christian church where the leaders don't make profit, where people aren't payed for preaching the Gospel. Both Bibles and Books of Mormon are given freely, church literature is free. Members aren't forced to pay tithing either, nor are they told they are sinning if they don't. The LDS church does put most tithing money into developments, most notably churches and temples, but this is entirely accepted, and the whole "Mormon Malls" thing is quite a load of propaganda.
And every single time someone tries to prove to the contrary, they do what you just did, they source THE most outlandish, non-credible nonsense.
Perhaps this is one reason why I removed myself from following any religion,
Um, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that your lifestyle is specifically forbidden by your former church. could it?
and instead jut toosk part of helping any church's will to help people with need. And for me, I see Mother Teresa as a good person. Because she helped people, and that's the best quality anyone can have.
I help people, I've done over 1000 hours of community service, I hold the door for elderly people and I always give my entire tax deduction to charity (outside of chruch tithing). Should I be turned into a saint? Better yet, look at Bill Gates, he's given BILLIONS of dollars to charity. Should people make him into a statue, and a focal point of prayer and religious devotion when he dies?
And to believe that whatever religious organization you belong can't be wrong... because you're in it... That's called overweening pride = hubris.
Not for me it's not. Because I didn't even go to church for several years. I didn't believe a word of the Mormon religion for a long time. But then I had a religious epiphany to the degree that I can't even describe in words, where I instantly knew I was wrong, and that I was fighting against something that was right. Now, I'm not going to go into great detail about this. But just know that my firm conviction is not hereditary or a sense of pride, it is an educated, inspired view that I developed, not acquired. It is a culmination of several points or reference, mixed with education, as well as personal experience. I don't trust my church because I have pride in it, I trust it because it is trustworthy, and I know it to be.
I mean... think about it. If you're church is recognized world wide. How did it expand? While it's concievable to believe a church can be free of the need of money, to spread a message by mouth... but the physical foundation of anybuilding costs money.
I am fully aware of this. No Mormon thinks that all their money goes to 3rd world countries, nor are led to believe that this is the case by the church. But just because it is true that tithing goes to buildings, doesn't mean that the wacky stories you link to are true, just because it had a tiny bit of truth, which was only that yes, the LDS church spends money on development.
Next time you enter your temple, remember that somewhere money came in to build it. And we can exlude that God physically gave that money to build your nice temple, and our government. It came from your donation...
Well, let's just say that once I started paying tithing my income tripled within a month... before my next tithing payment. Coincidence... maybe. But I give the credit to God and I have absolutely zero problem paying 10% of my income to the church, because the MOMENT I started going back to church my life became a success story after I was on the verge of becoming a statistic.
I just find it just perplexing that a guy like you can't believe that people may have experianced a miracle by a dead Catholic Indian woman,
Firstly, because I believe that the Catholic church is wrong, and because if there is a miracle or not, it still doesn't void the requirements articulated in the Bible that people DO NOT pray to physical objects.
Even if Mother Teresa was a great person, even if she went straight to heaven. This still doesn't mean that praying to her and creating idols of her effigy somehow doesn't count, even though it is specifically forbidden by God himself.
... you don't see the irony of yourself venerating and following a dead prophet,
Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith, we don't pray to him, we don't bow down before statues of him. Thus making it incomparable to what Catholics do, which is against the 1st Commandment.
who may had a bad case of the God Complex, who witnessed a miracle when an angel came to him
See, you're trying to make it seem as if I'm hypocritical for simply believing in miracles for my church but not for others. When you KNOW that was not in anyway what I suggested. I criticized Catholics for creating adeity, and idol, out of human being.
and gave him books and "peep stones."
You mean the Urim and Thummim... which were mentioned in the Bible.
The very same prophet, who by the way, got arrested for looking the inside of rocks and crystals because he thought he could gain wisdom
Mmhmm, and the people who filed those charges were probably the same people that murdered him while he was sitting in a jail cell.
in a grotesque-scientology-type-of-wacky situation. (Arrest records can be found in the archives of the Mormon's library... just google "Joseph Smith arrest.")
I've seen the arrest records.
Next topic: kettles calling pots fat and black...
Actually no, and your connections are pretty nonexistent.
I criticized Catholicism for deifying mortals, and you have to go and twist it around to make it seem that I'm hypocritical for believing in miracles.