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Not all Mormons are as evil and/or crazy as David Koresh was. I had a teacher who was mormon, and he was pretty nice, and was also normal.

What! Ok for starters all humans come from Africa, Native Americans aren't Jewish they were Asian and crossed the bearing land bridge into North America during the last Ice age, stupid 13th century religious nuts do not a good argument make.

There is no lost tribe of Hebrew. In fact ethnic Jews died out centuries ago most people who practice Judaism are actually of central and northern European descent. Originally Jews looked much like modern day Arabs brown skinned with curly black hair and long black beards so even if native Americans where some how Jewish they wouldn't be white. Also if Jesus were alive to day he and the 12 apostles would be on the no fly list.

Oh and Joseph Smith is a crafty liar who invented all the bull crap about tablets and seeing stones so he could make overly religious villagers follow him just like modern cult leaders except with out the flavor aide.

If you are telling me that that's not what all Mormons believe then what do you believe? I mean correct me if I 'm mistaken but that is, how your religion started. As for reading the book of Mormon. I 'm a catholic and I haven't read the bible since I was 5. In my opinions it's a book of made up stories designed to make people be good and kind to one another and keep civilization from erupting into total anarchy. That said people who take this crap literally need to pay more attention in science class or take a science courses at college!

This is basic stuff people. And even if you broke away from your churches founding principles and use the positive aspects of it, you still call it the book of Mormon. If you belong to a group of Mormons with different beliefs than Joseph Smith then call it something else. Other wise you will continue to be offended by people like me who think crazy anti scientific religious concepts like the ones that I've already mentioned need to be stamped out for the sake of education and the advancement of science and civilization as a whole!

Oh and I never said anything about satanic rituals or polygamy though I can't say I'm a fan of that either.

At 8/4/07 02:51 PM, Inferno42 wrote: Not all Mormons are as evil and/or crazy as David Koresh was.

David Koresh was not Mormon. At all.

At 8/4/07 03:48 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

At 8/4/07 02:51 PM, Inferno42 wrote: Not all Mormons are as evil and/or crazy as David Koresh was.

David Koresh was not Mormon. At all.

Neither was he evil or crazy. That's just some bullshit that Janet Reno and her cronies (the real Waco murderers) pulled out of their collective asses.

At 8/4/07 03:51 PM, DigitalMandrill wrote: Neither was he evil or crazy. That's just some bullshit that Janet Reno and her cronies (the real Waco murderers) pulled out of their collective asses.

Now, that's debatable. The whole thing was a giant cluster fuck, to be sure, but there were 12-year-old girls carrying Koresh's unborn children. I think that's at least a little evil/crazy.

At 8/4/07 04:06 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

At 8/4/07 03:51 PM, DigitalMandrill wrote: Neither was he evil or crazy. That's just some bullshit that Janet Reno and her cronies (the real Waco murderers) pulled out of their collective asses.

Now, that's debatable. The whole thing was a giant cluster fuck, to be sure, but there were 12-year-old girls carrying Koresh's unborn children. I think that's at least a little evil/crazy.

Wholly crap! I actually agree with you. David Coresh was a mad man but for the record he was a branch Dividian not a Mormon also that's not really His name that's his quote unquote Holy name (coughbullshitcough) But what dose Waco have to do with crazy Mormons. I mean I think Mormonism is king of ridicules, but suicide cults are frankly a bit out of there league. There's crazy and then there's "Oh my fucking god these people are fucking CRAZY!!!!!!"

At 8/4/07 01:12 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: We should out law it because there beliefs are retarded! I defy anyone to explain how a religion that believes in white Native Americans American Jesus and magical golden tables could possibly be true. If you still don't know what I'm talking about watch South Park. http://www.north-park.net/episode.php?co ntent=712

I get what you're saying, man. But that's the push/pull flow of religion: there's going to be certain parts of every sect that make you raise your hand and go uhhh, what the fuck? Myself, I'm Catholic. My personal beliefs put my at a lot of odds with Mormanism. But I would never ask the state or federal government to outlaw what they believe in, especially when they're a powerfully family-oriented and moral centered pillar of American society. Like it or loathe it, Mormans are good for America. Just as long as you take that statement with a grain of salt (or mound of salt, if you really can't stand them).

You may disagree with mormans, but they're not going to eat your babies or anything. It would be more damaging to understep the Constitution and outlaw their religion rather than honor our God-given freedom to worship however we want. Even if that includes not worshiping at all.

At 8/4/07 04:53 PM, Nylo wrote: You may disagree with mormans, but they're not going to eat your babies or anything.

God, that would be so badass if they did, though.

At 8/4/07 04:53 PM, Nylo wrote:

At 8/4/07 01:12 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: We should out law it because there beliefs are retarded! I defy anyone to explain how a religion that believes in white Native Americans American Jesus and magical golden tables could possibly be true. If you still don't know what I'm talking about watch South Park. http://www.north-park.net/episode.php?co ntent=712

I get what you're saying, man. But that's the push/pull flow of religion: there's going to be certain parts of every sect that make you raise your hand and go uhhh, what the fuck? Myself, I'm Catholic. My personal beliefs put my at a lot of odds with Mormanism. But I would never ask the state or federal government to outlaw what they believe in, especially when they're a powerfully family-oriented and moral centered pillar of American society. Like it or loathe it, Mormans are good for America. Just as long as you take that statement with a grain of salt (or mound of salt, if you really can't stand them).

You may disagree with mormans, but they're not going to eat your babies or anything. It would be more damaging to understep the Constitution and outlaw their religion rather than honor our God-given freedom to worship however we want. Even if that includes not worshiping at all.

Point taken but still couldn't the Mormons keep there morals and not claim that Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel and that Eden was in America. I mean I'm catholic and I would love the Vatican to recognize evolution and that the truth of the bible is in the morals it teaches not the stories themselves being taken literally. Sadly I think hell will freeze over before that happens.

At 8/4/07 05:26 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

At 8/4/07 04:53 PM, Nylo wrote:

At 8/4/07 01:12 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: We should out law it because there beliefs are retarded! I defy anyone to explain how a religion that believes in white Native Americans American Jesus and magical golden tables could possibly be true. If you still don't know what I'm talking about watch South Park. http://www.north-park.net/episode.php?co ntent=712

I get what you're saying, man. But that's the push/pull flow of religion: there's going to be certain parts of every sect that make you raise your hand and go uhhh, what the fuck? Myself, I'm Catholic. My personal beliefs put my at a lot of odds with Mormanism. But I would never ask the state or federal government to outlaw what they believe in, especially when they're a powerfully family-oriented and moral centered pillar of American society. Like it or loathe it, Mormans are good for America. Just as long as you take that statement with a grain of salt (or mound of salt, if you really can't stand them).

You may disagree with mormans, but they're not going to eat your babies or anything. It would be more damaging to understep the Constitution and outlaw their religion rather than honor our God-given freedom to worship however we want. Even if that includes not worshiping at all.

Point taken but still couldn't the Mormons keep there morals and not claim that Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel and that Eden was in America. I mean I'm catholic and I would love the Vatican to recognize evolution and that the truth of the bible is in the morals it teaches not the stories themselves being taken literally. Sadly I think hell will freeze over before that happens.

Actually, therein lie some more misunderstandings. We do not believe the Native Americans were the lost tribe of Israel. We believe they were indigenous to the Americas, and that the lost tribe, in the form of Lehi's family, traveled to the Americas, where they started the Nephite nation. (For those who would say it is just stories, there is archaelogical evidence if you would be bothered to look it up - your precious science connection). The Lamanites, as the Native Americans were called, fought a number of wars with the Nephites until they finally killed off all of the Nephites.

Eden? I don't claim to know much of what my religion thinks about it, but if I remember right, it was supposed to be somewhere in South America, not America as we define it today.

The Bible (and the Book of Mormon) are documented history. To say otherwise is to deny your past. Science is wrong, and has been proven so little by little over the years. If I can find it, I'll post a link to an article I read about just how inaccurate radioactive dating can be and is. Seriously, folks, you need to get away from what you can see/hear/smell/taste/touch (the "5 senses") and start paying attention to the rest of the world.

At 8/4/07 07:24 PM, davisev5225 wrote:

At 8/4/07 05:26 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote:

At 8/4/07 04:53 PM, Nylo wrote:

At 8/4/07 01:12 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: We should out law it because there beliefs are retarded! I defy anyone to explain how a religion that believes in white Native Americans American Jesus and magical golden tables could possibly be true. If you still don't know what I'm talking about watch South Park. http://www.north-park.net/episode.php?co ntent=712

I get what you're saying, man. But that's the push/pull flow of religion: there's going to be certain parts of every sect that make you raise your hand and go uhhh, what the fuck? Myself, I'm Catholic. My personal beliefs put my at a lot of odds with Mormanism. But I would never ask the state or federal government to outlaw what they believe in, especially when they're a powerfully family-oriented and moral centered pillar of American society. Like it or loathe it, Mormans are good for America. Just as long as you take that statement with a grain of salt (or mound of salt, if you really can't stand them).

You may disagree with mormans, but they're not going to eat your babies or anything. It would be more damaging to understep the Constitution and outlaw their religion rather than honor our God-given freedom to worship however we want. Even if that includes not worshiping at all.

Point taken but still couldn't the Mormons keep there morals and not claim that Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel and that Eden was in America. I mean I'm catholic and I would love the Vatican to recognize evolution and that the truth of the bible is in the morals it teaches not the stories themselves being taken literally. Sadly I think hell will freeze over before that happens.

Actually, therein lie some more misunderstandings. We do not believe the Native Americans were the lost tribe of Israel. We believe they were indigenous to the Americas, and that the lost tribe, in the form of Lehi's family, traveled to the Americas, where they started the Nephite nation. (For those who would say it is just stories, there is archaelogical evidence if you would be bothered to look it up - your precious science connection). The Lamanites, as the Native Americans were called, fought a number of wars with the Nephites until they finally killed off all of the Nephites.

Eden? I don't claim to know much of what my religion thinks about it, but if I remember right, it was supposed to be somewhere in South America, not America as we define it today.

The Bible (and the Book of Mormon) are documented history. To say otherwise is to deny your past. Science is wrong, and has been proven so little by little over the years. If I can find it, I'll post a link to an article I read about just how inaccurate radioactive dating can be and is. Seriously, folks, you need to get away from what you can see/hear/smell/taste/touch (the "5 senses") and start paying attention to the rest of the world.

Are you hearing yourself you just denied the existence of science for your religion this isn't the fucking dark ages!
How the hell could ancient Jew's get to America the Jew's were a land locked people who had no maritime experience and never made any voluntary trips out of Jerusalem and Israel.
Not to mention until the invention of the modern sail in china circumnavigating the Atlantic Ocean or for that matter the pacific was nearly impossible. If the great maritime powers of Greece and Carthadge couldn't do how is it logical even possible for the Jews to have done it oh and what evidence all I see is words from zealot if you have proof show me proof, please I'd love to be proven wrong on this one it would allow me to further my constant argument that we don't give the ancients enough credit.

At 8/4/07 07:24 PM, davisev5225 wrote: ...that the lost tribe... traveled to the Americas, where they started the Nephite nation. (For those who would say it is just stories, there is archaelogical evidence if you would be bothered to look it up - your precious science connection). The Lamanites, as the Native Americans were called, fought a number of wars with the Nephites until they finally killed off all of the Nephites.

Funny, all the archaeological evidence I've ever seen makes NO mention of any middle-eastern relics dating to around Christ's time... so I'm interested to see this "evidence" you claim there is.

The Bible (and the Book of Mormon) are documented history. To say otherwise is to deny your past.

I guess this is me... "denying" the "past". The bible has some historical information. It is mostly parable, however, and should not be believed over actualy written history. As far as the BoM goes... its "historical" accuracy is... in question, to put it mildly.

Science is wrong, and has been proven so little by little over the years. If I can find it, I'll post a link to an article I read about just how inaccurate radioactive dating can be and is.

Oh... please do. I always enjoy demolishing such claims. It's like Grammer's forays into conspiracy theories. Shooting fish in a barrel, but hey... it's fun. ^_^

Seriously, folks, you need to get away from what you can see/hear/smell/taste/touch (the "5 senses") and start paying attention to the rest of the world.

What "rest of the world"? The Mormon "rest", or the Catholic "rest", or the Hindu "rest", or the...? Do you see what I'm saying here?

Give me actual evidence of this "rest" of whatever, and you might have some footing. Otherwise you're just being a parrot, and not thinking or observing anything. You need to get out of your little box and realize that just because it apparently conflicts with what someone wrote in a book (in which you believe so full ythat you're willing to deny actual facts) doesn't mean it's wrong. Realize the importance of parable and the minimal importance of fact in a religious setting... realize that there is no actual conflict between religion and science except those made by fanatics. Maybe then you'll be worthy to instruct me, or anyone else, on how the Mormon faith actually work.

Blah... stoopid copypasta borkage...

At 8/4/07 07:14 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 8/4/07 05:31 AM, Ravariel wrote:

At 8/4/07 03:13 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Anybody can copy and paste a bunch of nonsense and think that it means something. You fail to realize that you're repeatedly blaming a larger group of people for something only a few do.

...simply amazing.

Cue flame war in 3...2...1.........

You have serious issues...

Care to elaborate or are you going to resort to the mindless semantics you usually do?

Hahaha. Y'know... I half-expected you to resist the bait. I mean... it was pretty ham-fisted after all. I didn't really think you were that self-absorbed... but whatever. The statement needs no clarification for those which it was intended, so no... I won't be elaborating. And thank you for being the "mindless" flamer we all know and love.

like a puppet on mah stringz!

Beside as a roman catholic thanks to Vatican two I can be as unreligious and cynacle as I want and still go to heaven as long as I make sure to live a good life that benefits humanity. Which I try to do (even though the vast majority of people prefer to lead civilization over a cliff rather than listen to my advice. Which is why cynicism is one my favorite philosophy's right next to Stoism).

Oh and Ravariel don't scare him away I'd like to see him come up with some proof hehehehahaha... not likely.

Guys look i live in Utah. The worst Mormons are hear. I am a mormon.
but i can stop the argument here. South Park said mormons are going to heaven

Um, didn't the Mormon Church ban polygamy in the early 20th Century?

At 8/4/07 08:59 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: Beside as a roman catholic thanks to Vatican two I can be as unreligious and cynacle as I want and still go to heaven as long as I make sure to live a good life that benefits humanity.

Oh great, another retarded Catholic that doesn't even know anything about his own religion, yet thinks he can talk about other people's religions with confidence.

Vatican II was officially re-articulated by the Vatican, by the the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the official overseers of Catholic doctrine. According to official Catholic document concerning the subject, you HAVE to follow the ordinances of being Catholic, you HAVE to be Catholic to achieve salvation because they believe that the Catholic church is the only rout to salvation.

Well, it seems that you should start reading your bible and going to Church, because it seems Vatican II means absolutely jackshit, and your religion is just as pathetic as it always has been.

Which I try to do (even though the vast majority of people prefer to lead civilization over a cliff rather than listen to my advice. Which is why cynicism is one my favorite philosophy's right next to Stoism).

At 8/4/07 10:26 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: the two groups are no better than the other do you fail to relize this?

Where in that nonsensical post you made did it state that the ORIGINAL Mormon church does what the fundamentalist Mormon church does, to thereby validate your claim that they are "no better' than the other?

At 8/4/07 01:09 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: mormon beliefs escalates into satanic rituals

No it doesn't. You care to elaborate, or are you just repeating what you've been falsely taught?

Mormons believe Jesus came to North america after died on the cross

After he was resurrected. But then again, is such a concept that far-fetched compared to any Bible stories? You think that Jesus, the son of God, going to visit people after his resurrection is strange... yet you think that God floating in a cloud and leading Jews through the desert is more credible?

Mormons believe American Indians were Lost Tribes of Israel (they did a DNA test to suppport the theory but the connection to israeli jews and American Indians tested negative and Mormon Church rejects this every times its mentiones)

All religions have certain views that are contradicted by science. But funny, because DNA tests didn't link Native Americans to Africans either, even though that is the official scientific stance... that we all came from Africa.

Mormonism was created by 16 year old (he claimed angels talk to him and told him he is a prophet)

Yeah, that's similar to how ALL ABRAHAMIC FAITH was created... by people who claimed to be ministered to by Angels, and be visited by God himself.

At 8/5/07 04:19 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: After he was resurrected. But then again, is such a concept that far-fetched compared to any Bible stories? You think that Jesus, the son of God, going to visit people after his resurrection is strange... yet you think that God floating in a cloud and leading Jews through the desert is more credible?

Eh... everyone draws the line somewhere. Some of us draw it at a deity, Jews draw it at Jesus being the messiah, most Christians draw it at Jesus traveling to America after his resurrection (not surprising since many believe his ascension was physical as well as spiritual, and that his tomb was found in the middle east, but I digress), you draw it at Catholic "idolatry". Eventually everyone's suspension of disbelief busts a leaf spring and they just can't go on.

To me it's all equally ridiculous, but again, that's neither here nor there.

All religions have certain views that are contradicted by science. But funny, because DNA tests didn't link Native Americans to Africans either, even though that is the official scientific stance... that we all came from Africa.

Actually...

The Book of Mormon states that the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of modern-day Native Americans. DNA, facial structure, and blood type studies appear to conflict with this belief. They demonstrate that the today's Natives descended from ancient people in Siberia. If the Natives were descendents of Lamanites, then one would expect to find Middle Eastern genetic markers in the DNA, facial structures and blood factors of American Natives. None of these exist.

...they do.

Mitochondrial Eve is the name given by researchers to the woman who is the matrilineal most recent common ancestor for all living humans... She is believed to have lived about 140,000 years ago in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania.

Nice try, though.

Oh, and congratulations on, for once, not rising to the bait. We'll get you learned yet. ;-)

At 8/5/07 04:55 AM, Ravariel wrote:

All religions have certain views that are contradicted by science. But funny, because DNA tests didn't link Native Americans to Africans either, even though that is the official scientific stance... that we all came from Africa.

Actually...

That didn't disprove what I said, at all. They found links between Asians and Native Americans, not Africans.

At 8/5/07 05:07 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: That didn't disprove what I said, at all. They found links between Asians and Native Americans, not Africans.

There was a second link there. Might wanna click it.

At 8/5/07 05:21 AM, Ravariel wrote:

At 8/5/07 05:07 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: That didn't disprove what I said, at all. They found links between Asians and Native Americans, not Africans.

There was a second link there. Might wanna click it.

Um... why should I have? You used it in reply to something I didn't even say, you included a quote from someone else without specifying who it was, but while it still appeared you were replying to me.

Could this possibly be... one of your schemes?

Besides... Wikipedia? Couldn't have found something else?

But anyway, the Mitochondrial Eve theory is just that, a theory. It's a specification for the common female ancestor we have... which in case you didn't know, we haven't found... but we only speculate about. It's a concept, it doesn't prove we came from Africa.

At 8/5/07 04:12 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 8/4/07 08:59 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: Beside as a roman catholic thanks to Vatican two I can be as unreligious and cynacle as I want and still go to heaven as long as I make sure to live a good life that benefits humanity.

Oh great, another retarded Catholic that doesn't even know anything about his own religion, yet thinks he can talk about other people's religions with confidence.

Vatican II was officially re-articulated by the Vatican, by the the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the official overseers of Catholic doctrine. According to official Catholic document concerning the subject, you HAVE to follow the ordinances of being Catholic, you HAVE to be Catholic to achieve salvation because they believe that the Catholic church is the only rout to salvation.

Well, it seems that you should start reading your bible and going to Church, because it seems Vatican II means absolutely jackshit, and your religion is just as pathetic as it always has been.

Which I try to do (even though the vast majority of people prefer to lead civilization over a cliff rather than listen to my advice. Which is why cynicism is one my favorite philosophy's right next to Stoism).

If you are referring to the recent changes well I was more of a fan of the last pope myself. But it clearly stated that good people of any religion can go to heaven or what ever, My point is being more mainstream it's exposed to more scrutiny (at least as much as a religion can be).

I not anti religious I would be tearing apart the logic for atheism just a quickly like in this topic http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/7508 60. My opinion is that you shouldn't let religion blind you likewise you can't disprove the existence of religion so It's better to consider the possibility yet not until your head hurts. (which when It comes to religion isn't very hard)

I never said Mormons are evil I just said there beliefs are crazy in a way that transcends normal religious bull shit. Plus I would love to see this so called proof.

Oh and I believe in south park they were being sarcastic as are you.

Oh and retarded catholic what are you? Are you angry because I rarely read the bible because I'm catholic or because I don't care enough about religion?
Listen buddy you name a religion and I'll shoot holes in it. Say you're an atheist and I'll ask. Then why do you care?

Dum dum dum dum dum

Alright fellow members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, everyone knows that "MORMONS R TEH SUXXOR" threads should be abandoned by page 3, trust me on this one. It's pretty obvious that depth of knowledge most of the debaters here have about Mormonism was gleamed from a 22 minute parody ordained by the South Park guys. Unfortunately most of these dumb asses missed the point that all religions are idiotic if you think about them long enough, one should judge a religion based on the principals it teaches rather than the crazy story of it's origin.

Just so I don't leave you whiny little Mormon haters hanging here are some closing points, you may respond and argue as you like however, I will not respond for am lazy and you are retarded.

Let's start with a bunch of Jews taking a boat to America. I seem to recall a story about some guy who built a boat big enough for two of every animal on Earth aboard it. Most Christians eat this up without too much bitching, are you telling me that it actually sounds more ridiculous to claim some other guys with at least a thousand years worth of better technology couldn't build a little boat to get them across an Ocean. How did they know how to do it, oh I don't know maybe God told them before he got such a stick up his butt about confirming his existence.

Now let's discuss the DNA linking modern Native Americans to Asians. The Mormon church does not claim that every single Native American was accounted for by descent from Israel, Is it not possible that the Northern tribes crossed the ice bridge and the Jewish ones were slaughtered by the Spaniards. Also let's just sit and contemplate what thousands of years worth of dilution of DNA can lead to.

Next, did Christ visit America? It always somewhat puzzles me when people argue this one, did Christ not come down and kick it with a Jews for a little while after his reserrection? That's in the Bible isn't it? If there were Jews in America too what exactly is the indisputable logic that would prevent him from visiting them too? Was his Visa maxed out?

Finally we come to polygamy, if all Mormons support polygamy and the forced marriage of 14 year old girls then I'm pretty sure it's safe to say all Catholics support the raping of 8 year old boys.

I guess what this argument really comes down to is all religions sound pretty stupid, you can either adjust your beliefs to fit modern knowledge and look stupid or you can stick to your guns, deny logic and look just as stupid. The fact is all religions have shit that doesn't make any fucking sense, who gives a shit? If somebody's religion makes them happy and helps them to be a good person all you naysayers can lay the fuck off, it's not like you're adding any extra value to society being a whiny little bitch.

What I'm reallying trying to say here is those of you who are of faith, those of science and those of stupidity can all lick my balls, we'll see who has the last laugh at the rapture.

At 8/5/07 12:42 PM, BeFell wrote: Dum dum dum dum dum

What I'm reallying trying to say here is those of you who are of faith, those of science and those of stupidity can all lick my balls, we'll see who has the last laugh at the rapture.

Apparently someone hasn't had thier caffenine since...well hell never.

I don't get that. Whats the point of being religious if you can't also be drunk and religious.

At 8/5/07 12:42 PM, BeFell wrote: Dum dum dum dum dum

Alright fellow members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, everyone knows that "MORMONS R TEH SUXXOR" threads should be abandoned by page 3, trust me on this one. It's pretty obvious that depth of knowledge most of the debaters here have about Mormonism was gleamed from a 22 minute parody ordained by the South Park guys. Unfortunately most of these dumb asses missed the point that all religions are idiotic if you think about them long enough, one should judge a religion based on the principals it teaches rather than the crazy story of it's origin.

Just so I don't leave you whiny little Mormon haters hanging here are some closing points, you may respond and argue as you like however, I will not respond for am lazy and you are retarded.

Let's start with a bunch of Jews taking a boat to America. I seem to recall a story about some guy who built a boat big enough for two of every animal on Earth aboard it. Most Christians eat this up without too much bitching, are you telling me that it actually sounds more ridiculous to claim some other guys with at least a thousand years worth of better technology couldn't build a little boat to get them across an Ocean. How did they know how to do it, oh I don't know maybe God told them before he got such a stick up his butt about confirming his existence.

Now let's discuss the DNA linking modern Native Americans to Asians. The Mormon church does not claim that every single Native American was accounted for by descent from Israel, Is it not possible that the Northern tribes crossed the ice bridge and the Jewish ones were slaughtered by the Spaniards. Also let's just sit and contemplate what thousands of years worth of dilution of DNA can lead to.

Next, did Christ visit America? It always somewhat puzzles me when people argue this one, did Christ not come down and kick it with a Jews for a little while after his reserrection? That's in the Bible isn't it? If there were Jews in America too what exactly is the indisputable logic that would prevent him from visiting them too? Was his Visa maxed out?

Finally we come to polygamy, if all Mormons support polygamy and the forced marriage of 14 year old girls then I'm pretty sure it's safe to say all Catholics support the raping of 8 year old boys.

I guess what this argument really comes down to is all religions sound pretty stupid, you can either adjust your beliefs to fit modern knowledge and look stupid or you can stick to your guns, deny logic and look just as stupid. The fact is all religions have shit that doesn't make any fucking sense, who gives a shit? If somebody's religion makes them happy and helps them to be a good person all you naysayers can lay the fuck off, it's not like you're adding any extra value to society being a whiny little bitch.

What I'm reallying trying to say here is those of you who are of faith, those of science and those of stupidity can all lick my balls, we'll see who has the last laugh at the rapture.

While I don't approve of your methods here, I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments. All the points you make are valid, and your statement at the beginning about leaving it alone is the wisest council I have heard on the internet to date. I am now, therefore, leaving this thread. The rest of these short-sighted, naieve folks can debate their silly little "points" until their fingers fall off, for all I care. I made my points, and I'll say this: YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH A BELIEF. YOU WILL ALWAYS BE DOOMED TO FAILURE IF YOU TRY.

So long, and have fun stroking your e-peens while you try to figure out who can win the stupidest arguments in this thread.

At 8/5/07 12:42 PM, BeFell wrote: Dum dum dum dum dum

Alright fellow members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, everyone knows that "MORMONS R TEH SUXXOR" threads should be abandoned by page 3, trust me on this one. It's pretty obvious that depth of knowledge most of the debaters here have about Mormonism was gleamed from a 22 minute parody ordained by the South Park guys. Unfortunately most of these dumb asses missed the point that all religions are idiotic if you think about them long enough, one should judge a religion based on the principals it teaches rather than the crazy story of it's origin.

Just so I don't leave you whiny little Mormon haters hanging here are some closing points, you may respond and argue as you like however, I will not respond for am lazy and you are retarded.

Let's start with a bunch of Jews taking a boat to America. I seem to recall a story about some guy who built a boat big enough for two of every animal on Earth aboard it. Most Christians eat this up without too much bitching, are you telling me that it actually sounds more ridiculous to claim some other guys with at least a thousand years worth of better technology couldn't build a little boat to get them across an Ocean. How did they know how to do it, oh I don't know maybe God told them before he got such a stick up his butt about confirming his existence.

Now let's discuss the DNA linking modern Native Americans to Asians. The Mormon church does not claim that every single Native American was accounted for by descent from Israel, Is it not possible that the Northern tribes crossed the ice bridge and the Jewish ones were slaughtered by the Spaniards. Also let's just sit and contemplate what thousands of years worth of dilution of DNA can lead to.

Next, did Christ visit America? It always somewhat puzzles me when people argue this one, did Christ not come down and kick it with a Jews for a little while after his reserrection? That's in the Bible isn't it? If there were Jews in America too what exactly is the indisputable logic that would prevent him from visiting them too? Was his Visa maxed out?

Finally we come to polygamy, if all Mormons support polygamy and the forced marriage of 14 year old girls then I'm pretty sure it's safe to say all Catholics support the raping of 8 year old boys.

I guess what this argument really comes down to is all religions sound pretty stupid, you can either adjust your beliefs to fit modern knowledge and look stupid or you can stick to your guns, deny logic and look just as stupid. The fact is all religions have shit that doesn't make any fucking sense, who gives a shit? If somebody's religion makes them happy and helps them to be a good person all you naysayers can lay the fuck off, it's not like you're adding any extra value to society being a whiny little bitch.

What I'm reallying trying to say here is those of you who are of faith, those of science and those of stupidity can all lick my balls, we'll see who has the last laugh at the rapture.

At what point did I sway all religions weren't ridicules. Also despite the hilarity of South Park, I don't know what I know from watching cartoons? Its just they expressed arguments that I agree with and I felt it would be more effective than me just ranting for 30 minutes. Also I continually hear that there is proof for the beliefs of Mormonism yet I don't see proof, produce evidence or shut up! I don't care which. I at least will happily admit that wile important morals and some semi historical tidbits can be gleamed from the bible 90% of it never happened and never will.

Oh and there is no such thing as the rapture that's something that author of the left behind series made up If the apocalypse is real get ready to die with the rest of us.

And once again how the hell did the Jew get from America to the middle east or visa versa did they have magical Jew powers or did god get drunk and accidentally teleport them? For the love of god put down the bible, go to a library, and read some books (in the nonfiction section).

By the way the arch story is crap it's not even monotheistic it was stolen from Babylonian paganism it was originally called the epic of Gilgamesh. The Greeks and Carthaginians couldn't do it with out the modern sail and the compass! God hasn't talked to any one in the last 2000 years except crazy people like Koresh and Jones so I am comfortable with the theory that he never spoke to anyone. Still there is nothing wrong with serving god by doing what you think he'd want and helping people. That still counts as religion. It's when you delude your self and other's that I get pissed off.

Finally it's wonderfully convenient for you that all your evidence was destroyed/hidden kind of like how Joseph Smith wasn't allowed to show anyone the golden tablets then had to hide them afterwards but not convenient enough because I don't buy it and if you were smart you wouldn't either.
Are there any other illusions you would like me to shatter in to a million pieces then piss on?

Hears some wisdom for you:
Cynic: an Idealist whose rose-colored glasses have been removed, snapped in two, and stomped into the ground, immediately improving his vision.
Join us (cue weird as alien cult music) no but seriously learn about it.

At 8/5/07 08:32 AM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: If you are referring to the recent changes well I was more of a fan of the last pope myself.

Oh I'm sure, because it allowed the Catholic church to pretend they are more tolerant, and it also allows individual Catholics to be less devout, and to believe that they can get to heaven without as much work as was previously necessary. It was a more convenient stance to take.

But it clearly stated that good people of any religion can go to heaven or what ever,

Well, according to the Catholic church now, that was a misinterpretation. According to the current doctrine as clarified through a re-articulation of Vatican II, as well as a new official document, Catholicism, and its ordinances, are the sole route to salvation. Thus the new doctrine claims that people who aren't Catholic, or are not devout Catholics and don't participate in its practices, are screwed basically... a reversion to traditional Catholic views.

So it seems you are in trouble, if you believe that your Church is true... then you're not really obeying it considering you've said so yourself that you are basically a faux Catholic.

My opinion is that you shouldn't let religion blind you likewise you can't disprove the existence of religion so It's better to consider the possibility yet not until your head hurts. (which when It comes to religion isn't very hard)

I used to think that religion was blinding, but then I had a religious epiphany and I came to the conclusion, based on a period of having a very open mind, that my religion is true. Religion is only blinding when you think make it mutually exclusive of science. Personal experiences of the magnitude I had defy reason and explanation, but they coincided with what I was taught as a child in the Mormon church before I let it. This to me is the highest level of proof someone can have of their religion, short of a visit from God.

But now, I don't think that Mormonism necessarily has to be scrutinized by science, because science a product of our small, feeble minds as humans, is only being pinned against our own humanly understanding or interpretation of something that is far more complicated than we know.

For instance, people tend to think that since the Earth is 4.6 billion years old according to our science, this disproves Judaism, Islam, and Christianity because in the Genesis story it states that God created the earth in 7 days.

However, they are using science to refute only a single, narrow interpretation of something that could mean something that could still be true, yet be far more complicated to be validated by carbon dating only.

Maybe the human that wrote Genesis couldn't fathom the timeframe that God used to create the earth, and used simple words and expressions that he could understand to explain something more complicated than he could describe otherwise. Maybe since God is... well God, and created time, maybe he suspended time on earth in order to create it within a slower-moving fold of time, all while the creation took what was equivalent to 7 days outside of the earth...

This may seem pretty wacky, but then again maybe people should read about black holes... which science supports the existence of... but at the same time defy the laws of physics and science all together. Supernatural things exist, that we can't even fathom in their entirety, that contradict the very methods we use to discover them. So it's just a bit ridiculous to think that science can disprove something as complicated as God, just by scrutinizing a few narrow interpretations of things that are obviously more complicated than they appear.

Science can't be used to disprove religion, and vice versa, because the concepts in religion are intangible and represent something that is supernatural and out of our ability to comprehend.

I never said Mormons are evil I just said there beliefs are crazy in a way that transcends normal religious bull shit. Plus I would love to see this so called proof.

What proof? I've never said there is proof.

Oh and retarded catholic what are you? Are you angry because I rarely read the bible because I'm catholic or because I don't care enough about religion?

Maybe I shouldn't have called you retarded. But, what I find odd is that Catholics, in my experience, tend to feel that they know enough about OTHER religions to speak ill of them, all while they don't even know enough about their own religion based on things they say.

You've ripped on Mormons quite a bit, saying certain things as if what you said was a fact, but then you said something about your own religion that isn't even true.

Which I try to do (even though the vast majority of people prefer to lead civilization over a cliff rather than listen to my advice. Which is why cynicism is one my favorite philosophy's right next to Stoism).

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man! The things you say just never cease to amaze me!! I don't mind the arrogance, the superiority complex, or even the fact that you call every religion besides yours "pathetic", but now you're claiming that without you, we are leading ourselves "over a cliff"?

Ave Cellypoo! Great savior of our civilization!! HAHAHAHAHAH!

And Cynicism is DEFINITELY you, I bet as a philosophy it fits like a glove.

The statement needs no clarification for those which it was intended, so no... I won't be elaborating.

Good man.

Where in that nonsensical post you made did it state that the ORIGINAL Mormon church does what the fundamentalist Mormon church does, to thereby validate your claim that they are "no better' than the other?

Which Church is the original? Don't both claim that title, and consider the other "bad" or whatever?

The Greeks and Carthaginians couldn't do it with out the modern sail and the compass!

Well the Greeks certainly could build exceedingly large ships, and we have some examples of merchant and other ships that dwarf the triremes of the day.

Oh and retarded catholic what are you? Are you angry because I rarely read the bible because I'm catholic or because I don't care enough about religion?

Don't worry about Celladoor. He's incapable of making a post that is insult free, regardless of who or what is happening in the debate. Your best course of action is to simply ignore him henceforth, but if you wanna spend the time seeding through his posts to find actual points instead of insults, make sure you don't play his game. He gets uncomfortable when you're not being as prickish as he is.

And fix your sig. C. Julius CAEsar is his name.
If you wanna show something even cooler, change the "J" to an "i". (C. Iulius Caesar).