Define Suicide For Me

[Boltrig]

I reckon this is one for the religious types, since strict rationality would not define this as suicide.

I got bored at work and decided to have a root through the abandoned DVD Drawer. The only remotely watchable thing in there was Constantine so I stuck it on.

When I was watching the part where the priest says "y'alls sister is goin to hell for jumpin off that there roof" I got thinking. Say youve decided you dont want to live, but for whatever reason cant / wont kill yourself in the traditional sense.

So you head down to the sports shop, buy a blank firer and a mag of blanks and stroll down to your local bank. You go in and fire into the air. The alarm is tripped and when the armed response units arrive, you open fire. You know youre not about to commit murder - theyre blanks! But the law doesnt know that and hoses you with automatic fire.

You knew that this scenario ends up with you dead, but you technically didnt kill yourself.

How do you reckon that one stands up? Theologically.

[K-RadPie]

From dictionary.com:

1. the intentional taking of one's own life.
2. destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide.
3. a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.

That thing about the fake bank robbery though, well, I dunno.

[TonyTostieno]

I don't think that killing yourself gets you sent to hell, but I think that the people who do think thta would go with that this counts as suicide. My view on suicide is that you are intentionally putting yourself into a situation where you know you will get killed, such as shooting yourself.

[Boltrig]

At 7/25/07 07:32 PM, TonyTostieno wrote: I don't think that killing yourself gets you sent to hell

Apparently its seen as you trying to challenge gods plan, so it would incur an eternity in the pit.

Yes, the situation i described would be you putting yourself into a situation you know will result in death, but its not you that pulls the trigger on the fatal shot.

Hence the ambiguity.

[Danofdeth1217]

well im currently christian but thinking of going to budism but personally i think that if you kill yourself thats it (unless you go to heaven or are reincarnated or something you know?)no one can tell anyone wat happens
what happens happens

[Boltrig]

Which is why i was angling at getting folk speculating. What (do you all reckon) is classed as suicide in the eyes of church / god whatever.

Yes, granted no one can commit suicide then come and tell us "BTW, yall do go down, down, down, while the flames burn higher"

Its purely speculation!

[plagueofthings]

At 7/25/07 07:08 PM, Boltrig wrote:
So you head down to the sports shop, buy a blank firer and a mag of blanks and stroll down to your local bank. You go in and fire into the air. The alarm is tripped and when the armed response units arrive, you open fire. You know youre not about to commit murder - theyre blanks! But the law doesnt know that and hoses you with automatic fire.

It may be slightly off-topic, but did anyone hear about that guy who went to the Capitol building in Colorado with a gun, proclaimed himself the emperor, and was killed by police? No? Well you must read about it! At the very least, it's highly amusing.

[Hyter]

At 7/25/07 07:08 PM, Boltrig wrote: So you head down to the sports shop, buy a blank firer and a mag of blanks and stroll down to your local bank. You go in and fire into the air. The alarm is tripped and when the armed response units arrive, you open fire. You know youre not about to commit murder - theyre blanks! But the law doesnt know that and hoses you with automatic fire.

The law calls that suicide by cop.

[Elfer]

At 7/25/07 08:51 PM, Hyter wrote: The law calls that suicide by cop.

Dag, beat me to it.

Yep, it's just a different type of suicide. You're going out and doing stuff with specific intent to end your own life.

[Durin413]

Theologically, I would call it suicide. However, by the same token, don't forget a martyrdom (going out to do so others may live, such as distracting the enemy, etc.)

[BlakxWolfie]

That is technically suicide, but the state will probably say that the bullets were blanks and then if you had life insurance, the person would get the money, whom you specified. You did not take your own life, but you did have intent that you would be the cause of your death indirectly.

[Empanado]

I'd say that suicide is defined by intentions rather than by how it's carried out. Suicide by cops (yes, I also wanted to be the first smart-ass to claim knowledge on that term) fits into the broad category of suicide, although it'd be more like "indirect suicide".
However, there's a difference between suicide and self-immolation or self-sacrifice. At least in my opinion, suicide is the whole "waaah waah I listen to Linkin Park and my life sucks so I'm gonna kill myself", while self-immolation is what you see in action films where the token, expendable minority character decides to catch a bullet or distract the enemy while they mouth off some fancy-pants one-liner.

I mean, after all, if motivation was irrelevant, Jesus would have pretty much commited indirect suicide by not using his superpowers and shit to, like, blow the cross up or something. By that logic, I'm guessing the theological viewpoint on it is that you're down to barbeque land as long as your suicide was petty and selfish.

[hongkongexpress]

Suicide (Latin sui caedere, to kill oneself) is the act of intentionally terminating one's own life. According to Wikipedia.

[JediMaster-pimp]

Well if suicide is intentionally taking your own life, robbing a bank to trip an alarm , and then firing at the police officers(with blanks) who try to stop you only so they will kill you, is killing yourself in the sense that you're intentionally doing it to end your own life. So yes I believe that would classify as suicide.

[Sajberhippien]

At 7/25/07 07:32 PM, TonyTostieno wrote: I don't think that killing yourself gets you sent to hell, but I think that the people who do think thta would go with that this counts as suicide. My view on suicide is that you are intentionally putting yourself into a situation where you know you will get killed, such as shooting yourself.

That sounds about right, I'd like to add to that the GOAL of putting oneself in the situation should be to die. If I threw myself in front of a car to save my child, I'd say it isn't a suicide.

[Sajberhippien]

At 7/25/07 11:46 PM, Empanado wrote: However, there's a difference between suicide and self-immolation or self-sacrifice. At least in my opinion, suicide is the whole "waaah waah I listen to Linkin Park and my life sucks so I'm gonna kill myself", while self-immolation is what you see in action films where the token, expendable minority character decides to catch a bullet or distract the enemy while they mouth off some fancy-pants one-liner.

Most suicidals have a mental disorder/sickness. So that linkin park stuff is just BS. I get angry every time I see things like this; I have acquaintances that commited suicide, and my girlfriend has tried. For fucks sake, most people who take their lives doesn't need to feel more bad, most already has thoughts such as "I'm just imagining I'm not well, I just do it for attention" even if that isn't the case.

[ShardStorm]

At 7/26/07 03:17 AM, Sajberhippien wrote:

At 7/25/07 07:32 PM, TonyTostieno wrote:

That sounds about right, I'd like to add to that the GOAL of putting oneself in the situation should be to die. If I threw myself in front of a car to save my child, I'd say it isn't a suicide.

Yeah, that's more of a sacrifice.

[damionford]

A permanant solution to a temproary problem

[bcdemon]

Regardless of where you end up (heaven or hell or just 6 feet under) your hypothetical is still suicide. You purposely took steps that would end your life, suicide.

[The-JefFlet]

yea i see it as suicide because you still made the choice to end your life.

[Ravariel]

At 7/25/07 07:08 PM, Boltrig wrote: You knew that this scenario ends up with you dead, but you technically didnt kill yourself.

How do you reckon that one stands up? Theologically.

Do you really think God would let you slide on a technicality?

[LightandDark]

Suicde: an intent to end one's own life, meaning that if you plan to get yourself killed on purpose, no matter how it's done, the term "see ya in hell" would apply.

[The-JefFlet]

technically that US Navy SEAL that jumped on the grenade to save his comrades commited suicide.
but if you are a christian then you could say technically jesus commited suicide because he had the power to not die but he was giving his life to save us.
and the bible says that there is not greater love in the world than for one to give his life for a friend.

[Project-Nemesis]

That has you torn between heaven and hell (not necessarily a pun). Perhaps that would send you to purgatory, temporary suffering for your sins? You did not die by your own hand, but you still intended for your own death. I haven't read the entire bible, so I don't know.

[GreenDay-420]

Ok so we have it answear suicide by cop
what if you do something like your in the army and your tanks hit so you tell the rest of your men to get out and you will hold them well they escape knowing your going to die is that still count as a suicide ?

[viceman]

suicide is if an dumbass buys some guns goes into an police station and start shooting people

[dacooky]

Do what u want killing your self or being killed by some one else why bother complaning about it

[MarkArandjus]

Quite simply, you killed yourself, because you got in to a situation, premeditatevly with a plan where you knew you would die.

Religion or not, you killed yourself. Or to be more apt, you got yourself killed.

[Asswipe3210]

At 7/25/07 07:08 PM, Boltrig wrote:

So you head down to the sports shop, buy a blank firer and a mag of blanks and stroll down to your local bank. You go in and fire into the air. The alarm is tripped and when the armed response units arrive, you open fire. You know youre not about to commit murder - theyre blanks! But the law doesnt know that and hoses you with automatic fire.

You knew that this scenario ends up with you dead, but you technically didnt kill yourself.

How do you reckon that one stands up? Theologically.

Heres a twist on it.

While walking to the bank you get to thinking, maybe this isnt't a good ides. Maybe I should just turn around and forget the whole thing.

As you walk through a cross walk your perephial vision fades as you are concentrated on your thoughts. A bus hits and kills you.

Suicide?

[JudgeDredd]

At 7/25/07 09:41 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 7/25/07 08:51 PM, Hyter wrote: The law calls that suicide by cop.

Dag, beat me to it.

Yep, it's just a different type of suicide. You're going out and doing stuff with specific intent to end your own life.

Right, but then there's one came to mind watching the world's heaviest man on tv recently.. Suicide By Beef Burgers ..sure, it's a slower death which is in no way statistically attributed to suicide, but nevertheless can considerably shorten life in a concious manner, whilst also being linked to depression etc.

And when one is so obese and therefore unable to leave one's bed.. aren't caring friends & family (and home-delivery junk foods) also assisting suicide?

Basically, at what point do we count obesity as a form of soft-suicide? Or purposeful drink-driving? Or smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day? And so on..